Frank's Saga

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Frank's Mom, Apr 5, 2017.

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  1. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Frank seems to be doing good on the 3 units, although I suspect a small increase will be needed to get him all the way to good numbers. 3rd vet follow up tomorrow, so we'll have a peed in carrier to clean again. I ordered the alpha track 2 today, for curves and to give #s to the vet and maybe we can stop going in weekly. Next plan is to change any dry food and treats to the YA 0. Maybe that will even help some. Kind of excited to see his PMPS tonight although he's got an hour yet an is yowling for food...which is what messed us up a bit yesterday. I bet I get some blues tonight!
     
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  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! He went up 100 points in an hour? I've seen that on other people's spreadsheets too. That last hour as the insulin wears off is really interesting. And explains why consistency is so important! I'm curious what will happen when he's off dry food. Sometimes it makes a really big difference.
     
  3. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    He doesn't get much...other than yesterday when I was being too cautious of a low number. We've had a 4 pound bag for 3 weeks now and I don't think we're even close to halway through it. But I want to eliminate it all together.
     
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  4. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Might want to hold off on the dose increase until you see how the YA effects him. I had a couple nice green nadirs before Maury was completely on the YA. :) I had to transition him very slowly.
     
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  5. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Well, that's all I'm getting tonight. Just realized I have one strip left, and I need that for tomorrow. Looks like a trip to Walmart is in my (sickly) future. I need more cold medicine though so I guess that's OK. Taking my sick self to bed and hoping for a low amps tomorrow. :cat:
     
  6. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Feel better soon [​IMG]
     
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  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh no! I'm sorry to hear you're under the weather! Take care and sending you wishes for a quick recovery!
     
  8. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Oh that's too bad! I know a cold can really kick your butt sometimes. Hope you get some good meds to help you!
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    OK, you have many cycles at 3 u and you have some nice yellows and blues to show for it. I suggest you increase to 3.25 u today and aim for a test or two in the +3 to +7 range.

    Sorry you're down with a cold. How can such a "common" malady kick butt so badly?! :confused::(
     
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  10. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Frank was good at the vet today. She doesn't want to see him for 2 more weeks, and since I ordered the AT2 she said I could just call the teat in and that I don't have to take him. She also said he looks good at the current dose but as we all know, he's a bit all over from day to day, so I think a small increase would help with that. I'm still majorly under the weather, but hoping that by tomorrow I'll be feeling well enough that I can competently care for him again.
     
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  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Glad it went well today! And I'm so sorry you're still under the weather. Colds always seem to last for--ev---er! Did Frank get an injection this morning? Or was that +8 all natural?
     
  12. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Thanks! I updated his shot from this morning. I'm so out of things! This cold going around where I live has been knocking people out left and right.
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Then I really hate to tell you that something still isn't lining up quite right :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Sigh. I can't figure out what. Sudafed and nyquil equals mush brain.
     
  15. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear....I think it was me. It looks fine now. :facepalm:
     
  16. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    What a lovely +8! And I'm glad Frank had a good vet visit...not having to bring him in next time will be nice for you both!

    Here's hoping you get a good, healing night's sleep!
     
  17. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Well, I'm doing my best today and will try to get some mid-cycle numbers this evening, but Frank seems to continue with a high pre-shot and a halfway decent mid-cycle. Also got my AT 2 in the mail today. Is it supposed to read so much higher? Yikes. Bumped to 3.25 today...will see how he does. Not sure if we're getting bouncing or if he's going to be one of those tricky kitties. Hoping to get some good tests and numbers over the weekend while I'm home with him.
     
  18. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the AT2 really does read a lot higher than the human meters. Are you going to use it all the time now or just for certain tests?
     
  19. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I just got it to call the numbers in to the vet...she'll accept them as valid. I just wanted to test it out tonight to make sure I know how to use it.
     
  20. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How's the cold? Are you feeling better?
     
  21. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Not really feeling very well still. Stuffy head, chest congestion, off and on fever. I'm on antibiotics and 3 different cold medicines to help the symptoms. I'm better than yesterday though, so I'm on the mend!
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh my goodness! That sounds like more than a cold! I wish you were closer - I'd bring you chicken soup!
     
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  23. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    And I'd bring some tea!

    Do what you can...if you need rest when you want to test...take a rest. You have to take care of you too!

    When you're feeling up to it, try to get some tests in with the AT2 AND the Relion. Those comparisons will help you see the differences and you'll feel better knowing what they are.
     
  24. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Lemon - honey - ginger tea or green tea is nice :)
     
  25. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Thanks all...I'm feeling better today. Most of the head cold is gone and is in my chest a little now, but it's getting better. Had an adoption event today for the rescue I volunteer with. Lots of doggies went to new homes today, but Jasper the bunny came home with me again. Hoping to find his forever home soon!
    Frank is high today. In all honesty, I'm not exactly at 12 hours apart with his shot right now, but I'm not horribly off, either. I love that the vet got a number that made her not want to see him again for 2 weeks, but if you look at him overall, he's just not consistent. His weight is back up to where they want him, though, so YAY for that. I know there's lots of kitties out there who are underweight...glad I'm not fighting that battle too. I'm going to try to do a curve this evening and see if I can't lock down a nadir time on Frank. Does their nadir change each cycle, or should it be relatively close to the same time each cycle?
     
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  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    He's still in bounce mode from the blue on Apr 06 or a low he might have had last night. He's a bouncy boy! Nadirs can move around quite a bit but generally fall in the +5 to +7 range with ProZinc.
     
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  27. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hooray that some of the doggies found new families!

    Sorry that Frank is high today. I wonder if he went lower than normal last night?

    Some kitties have very stable nadirs, for others, it moves around a bit. That's why the occasional full curves (every two hours) are helpful.

    I'm so glad to hear you're feeling at least a bit better!
     
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  28. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Glad you are feeling better:). I think it should be relatively in the same area each cycle.
     
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  29. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I guess we stick to 3.25 for a few cycles then to see what we get. I might need to tighten up his eating schedule, too. He's not getting dry food but maybe he's eating to much canned food. Now that his weight is good, I should probably cut back the food a bit.
     
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  30. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Frank's AMPS looked good, so I gits maybe the last few days included some bouncing. Going to try for +2, 4, 5, 6, and 8 today. I'm feeling better than yesterday, so this cold is definitely on its way out the door!
    In the meantime, here is my little fur monster taking a morning nap.
     

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  31. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh, he's precious! They are absolutely adorable when they're all zonked out like that, aren't they? I think getting a full curve like that today will be really helpful. Hopefully Frank will be as sweet and cooperative as he looks in that photo while he gets his extra pokes this afternoon!
     
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  32. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    For as much as Frank dislikes basically anything, he doesn't use claws or teeth to escape. He VERY LOUDLY vocalizes and runs away the moment he's free, but as long as I can catch him he let's me do whatever lol. Frank is a feral rescue....I got him at about 8 weeks old, so just old enough to not really be a lap cat. He was a MONSTER when we first got him though I'm sure you can relate, with Sam.
     
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  33. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    He's so adorable!

    I have a semi-feral too...though I took her in after a few months (she lived outside with her mama and sister). She will let me pet her sometimes now...but never catch her or hold her or anything. I'm glad Frank allows you to do all that!
     
  34. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Lol...we are all crazy.
     
  35. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    We have 2 feral colonies at my work that we are working on TNR with. One of their care takers, a coworker, has 9 (NINE!!!) ferals that she has taken home and turned into "house cats". I think that we are all sane compared to that!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
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  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! I can't even imagine! The only reason Sam was at a shelter instead of TNR is because he got shot. And then he just got dang lucky that the person who picked him up, dropped him at a no-kill instead of animal control. Sometimes fate intervenes....
     
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  37. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    if the vet will give you an email address you could just send her the link to the spreadsheet.... That's what I did.
     
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  38. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I took in 5 strays from my yard (6 cats total) and found homes for 5 kittens. We feed a colony of about 10.
     
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  39. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    The one colony is about 8, the other is closer to 20. And kitten season has hit already. We're putting up a new building, and a week ago they uncovered 4 10 day old kittens while knocking down trees and old structures. Thankfully I have a friend in cat rescue who took the babies and is bottle feeding them. They're so cute...I'll have to try to find a pic.
    Anyhow...bumped Frank to 3.5 tonight. Whhhyyyy is he still so high! He drives me crazy in most things in life....managing his diabetes is just another thing on the list.
     
  40. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hang in there! you'll find his dose. You're doing a great job of monitoring and raising when he isn't moving. It can take awhile to break through sometimes. Sending you hugs!
     
  41. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement. This really feels, at times, like I'm beating my head against the wall. No wonder some people just stick to what the vet says. Oh well...we are making small improvements. In the meantime, here's a little collage of the babies we saved 2 weeks ago. PicsArt_1491786404692.jpg
     
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  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    What little darlings!! :bighug:
     
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  43. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    OH MY GOODNESS!!!! Oh, they are precious! Look at that little on in the corner with his teeny little bottle. Oh my gosh, I'm dying over them. Those poor little babies, but how lucky they have a safe home!
     
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  44. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    You should watch them drink from the bottle. It's adorable. We were worried about one of the little orange guys.. they all had an upper respiratory thing, and with little ones that can turn so fast. Plus he was the smallest, and the last to take to the bottle. But they are all doing great now! Another week or so and they'll be off the bottle, and a week or 2 after that and they'll be up for adoption. There are at least 3 other litters right now that won't have such a great outcome.
     
  45. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  46. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    How is Frank higher now than he was at 1 and 2 U? Is it an insulin resistance thing, or just bouncing...or I think what I'm really asking is how to tell the difference between the 2 and what do I look for to help figure out which it is?
     
  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Simple answer: that was then and this is now. FD is a dynamic, not a static, disease. Insulin requirements change by the hour/day/week. The good dose isn't "set and forget".
     
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  48. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    That makes sense. I keep thinking I'm going to get close to what will "fix" him, but in reality there is no fix. Dynamic and not static...definitely need to add that to my internal dialogue!
     
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  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The definition of "fix" is broad: some say achieving regulation is "fixed" whereas others say remission is "fixed". And of course, ECID.
     
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  50. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I got a decent +5 tonight. Will probably get one more before calling it a night. Finally feeling better and I have so much laundry to catch up on from this week. Frank is feeling great tonight....he even tried to get me to play hide and seek for a bit earlier, a game he hasn't played in months now. I've got a strict feeding schedule I'm going to try to stick to. Pretty sure he's been eating about 4 cans of food a day...yikes!...and now I'm REALLY wondering if that's been contributing to some of his high numbers. We'll see what tomorrow brings!
     
  51. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Those little babies are adorable!!! OH my gosh I wish I could take a little orinch one!! But my kitties would not take to that well...

    Remember that if the dose was a set and forget thing, that would mean remission wasn't likely to happen since the BG would be the same throughout. So...changing requirements are a good thing!
     
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  52. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I think we had a slight bounce after this morning. I wish I knew I could safely stick to 3.5; we may have actually gotten in the single digits if I had upped the dose. (We were so close to the shoot/don't shoot number.) But I'm hopeful that 3.5 is a good number. (Did I say the same thing at 3? Lol.)
     
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  53. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think you're seeing a bounce as well. I think 3.5 is good...I wouldn't up the dose on a bounce because it's not a "real" number.
     
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  54. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    We don't want single digits ;)
     
  55. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Ha...yeah, I meant double. Lol.
     
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  56. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    AMPS makes me happy!
     
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  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    A nice, sunshiny yellow - looks good! :)
     
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  58. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I hope I didn't over shoot this morning. My gut tells me we'll be fine but I might make a trip home this afternoon.
     
  59. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Should be OK. You haven't seen any green yet.
     
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  60. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I think tonight and last I caught a bounce for Frank. Hoping for 2 non-bouncy days to see some decent numbers...suspect another increase is needed but I'm not sure it needs to be very much, so I really want some non-bounce days.
     
  61. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully he'll stay off the trampoline!
     
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  62. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I think I'm ready to increase Frank's dose again, but before I do that...what are the "ideal" preshot numbers that I want? Frank has had some decent 200s preshot, but it's hard during the week to get midcycle numbers. At what point are his cycles good enough that I don't consider increases anymore?
     
  63. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Generally you're looking for yellows pretty consistently at preshot and then high double digits nadir...that's what we consider well regulated numbers.

    I agree that you can probably increase. Frank is still more in pinks preshot and yellows mid cycle so increasing might help that.
     
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  64. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Thanks Rachel, for your advice on that! I think tomorrow night we'll increase to 3.75U.
     
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  65. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Happy I didn't do that increase last night!
     
  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    My goodness! I don't think the stall with no food is going to get him up to a full dose number. Have you set a "no shoot" number in your mind? That's the one where you'd start with stall/retest, move on to deciding on a very low dose or opt for no shot, depending on your comfort level and/or ability to monitor.

    If these PS lows pop up more you might consider lowering the dose so that you get two shootable PSs a day. Another thing to try is taking a break from sliding scale dosing for a couple of days to see if that calms things down. It can work really well but sometimes it's an extra variable that gets things more jumbled up.
     
  67. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    My "adjusted shot" number is around 150-250, taking into account what he ate and how much he ate. Unfortunately this morning I had to leave for work and couldn't do the stall and re-test, so opted for NS. We'll probably get off work early, but I can't be for sure, and so I can't even guarantee that I could run home for a mid-day test. (I hate leaving for lunch only to come back to find out I can leave for good for the day.)

    Frank got no dry food yesterday, not a single piece. I wonder if that didn't help contribute to this low number. Also, I didn't freeze his food last night, so maybe he ate everything before midnight even rolled around, and then had no food the rest of the night, leading to a low BS.

    All I can say for certain is THANK GOD I'm doing PS testing! I can't imagine if I had just given him the full dose of 3.5, or even the 2.5 that the vet thinks I'm giving. I guess I could have done a token dose of like .5, but not being home to check him just made it seem risky. So, he ate breakfast and has his frozen food out for the day, and whatever time I get off work I'll go home to check.

    Is it completely unadvisable to give a small dose mid-cycle if numbers are high? I know it would mess up the 12 hour cycle. Maybe this is where I'd like lantus better? Ugh. I feel like I'm just getting the hang of things with prozinc, and I know lantus is a different protocol that I'd have to learn all over again. Things to think about, for sure!
     
  68. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Safety is number one, always!

    It's possible. Do you have a sense of how carb sensitive Frank is?

    I think we all say this over and over to ourselves.

    I'd say yes. It creates the problem of two overlapping insulin curves, two nadirs, etc.

    It's still early days for ProZinc. I'd give it more time.
     
  69. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Go Frank! See it's the moment where I say "well clearly you need an increase" that he likes to throw these low numbers...just to let me know that I don't really know what's going on! :joyful:
     
  70. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the cats on here talk to each other and all agree to do the same weird thing. Sam's too low to shoot this morning as well.
     
  71. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    This happens more and more often these days! I think they have their own message board...
     
  72. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Ha! The day that Frank's BG dropped some after I set stricter limits on how much food he got, I swear I think he read his feeding schedule note on the fridge and saw that he would only get 2 cans a day and so did it on purpose. I never said out loud that I was limiting his food, so the only thing that could have happened is that he read the note.
     
  73. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Well, now I don't know if we're seeing a bounce or an extreme high from no insulin this morning. I wish I would have given a small dose. Any input on if I should back off a bit now or go ahead with the increase?
     
  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Could be both. I wouldn't give 3.5 u tonight after the 120 this AM. Maybe 3.25 u or even 3.0 u?
     
  75. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    For what it's worth, I think the NS was the right decision. It's hard to see those high numbers, but without being home to monitor, it's just not safe to shoot on a low number like that. He'll get back to regular numbers in no time.
     
  76. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    I gave 3 tonight. Was afraid his high was a bounce result, and I know we aren't supposed to make decisions based on a bounce. Hoping he'll even out over night and maybe if he's low again in the AM I'll do 1 or so, since I'll be home to monitor.
     
  77. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Every dose is an experiment ... ;)
     
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  78. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I think your reasoning for that is sound. It's hard not to react to bounce numbers, but you're right that trying to chase the numbers rarely works. I think you might have been okay at 3.25, or even 3.5 (his normal PM dose) since my suspicion is that the low AMPS was an anomaly, and not a new trend. But there's no way to know until a few more days have passed. Plus, I think mama-sense is a real thing and as I'm sure you've read a hundred times here: better high for a day than low for a moment.

    I am curious that the PM cycles are so stable, but the AM cycles are not. Are they 12/12? Or 11/13? Any differences in food between AM and PM cycles?
     
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  79. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    His morning shot don't vary by anymore than 15 minutes, but usually they are between 720-740 am. The evening shots are usually around 730, but could be as late as 8, although that's the exception, not the rule. He gets a morning meal (.25 can) and .75 left out frozen for the day. Then usually a BG a 530pm and .25 can if he's loud. Then pretest and shot at 730, another .25 of a can, and .5-.75 left out frozen over night. Yesterday the AM food and PM food equaled a can each 12 hours, and the shots were at 736a and 747pm. It's not exactly 12 hours, but usually pretty darn close.
     
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  80. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yup, I would call that close enough. Maybe he's just going to have a wonky morning cycle. Not easy when you have to leave for work though, huh?
     
  81. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    It makes me wonder what he does all day when I'm not here. And all night when I'm sleeping. Lol. Last night he ate something crunchy off the floor. It looked like a piece of chicken skin,but I don't eat fried chicken. Lol. Maybe it was a girl scout cookie crumb. Idk.
     
  82. Frank's Mom

    Frank's Mom Member

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    Mar 16, 2017
    I know I can at least rule out him eating the dog food as a reason for the highs. Frank would never lower himself to that. He won't even let his sister sniff him, much less share a meal with her.
     
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