Fred: Pulled out his e tube!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Jamye and Fred, Oct 4, 2016.

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  1. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Day 3 of Fred having upset tummy ( diarrhea). I'm thinking bad batch of Friskies Poultry Favorites Variety pack from Target. Sku ends with 29257 8. Anyone else having problems? Do I stop all food for now? I leave the faucet dripping so he has water. He's on the balcony chatting with birds now. BG is ok. (Remission 15 months)
     

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  2. Erica & Carter

    Erica & Carter Well-Known Member

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    I would personally stop the use of that particular batch, and maybe try a small amount of a different kind. Slippery Elm Barks also helps with diarrhea.
     
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  3. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ditto.

    I'd also report the batch to the manufacturer.

    If Fred still has diarrhoea tomorrow I strongly recommend you get your vet to check him over.


    Mogs
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  4. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Thanks y'all. I've already stopped feeding that batch and will be reporting it and taking it back to Target. Switching back to FF.
     
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  5. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    I put some pedialite in some Fancy Feast classic chopped grill Feast , he's eating. He jumped on the table when I walked in...Ready to eat.
     

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  6. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Attaboy, Fred!


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  7. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Thanks. He normally runs 50-90 so this is good.
     

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  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Love the pics; Fred is gorgeous!

    :bighug:


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  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    What a handsome lad!
     
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  10. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He ate last night and this morning but his BM is just bloody mucous today. I'm communicating with a friend who works at my vets.
     
  11. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Time for the vets, methinks. Bring a stool sample. The mucus is suggestive of GI irritation.

    Sending lots of positive vibes for Fred.

    :bighug:


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  12. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Took sample to vet. They said they couldn't get much done with the small sample but it was negative for parasites. Taking him in tomorrow. He's laying next to me, purring. That's always a good sign. But he hasn't been eating today. He did drink water. Prayers appreciated. Good night y'all.
     
  13. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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  14. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    I'm so sorry. My deepest condolences.
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Jamye. Still can't believe it ...

    :bighug:


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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I see Fred has had a bout of pancreatitis in the past. For peace of mind I'd suggest getting the vet to run pancreatitis and B12/folate tests when you're there today. If the vet offers SNAP fPL testing in-house you'd get a yes/no answer straight away.

    On the lack of interest in food here's a very helpful resource on nausea/appetite problems and treatments:

    Nausea & appetite problems - symptoms and treatments

    As you no doubt know well, reluctance to eat needs to be tackled head-on. If nausea is an issue Cerenia can work quickly but ondansetron is in my experience more effective overall; the latter can take a day or two to show full benefit but the Cerenia can assist in the meantime. Also ask the vet whether slippery elm bark might help Fred; it is soothing to the digestive tract.

    Sending a bucketload of prayers for Fred to feel better very soon.


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  17. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    We are at the hospital now
     
  18. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    :bighug:
     
  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Fingers and paws crossed that all will go well.

    :bighug:


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  20. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Fred is in the hospital with acute pancreatitis probably brought on by a bad batch of Friskies. He's getting IV fluids, pain med etc. prayers appreciated. We've been here before. Never switching from Fancy Feast.
     

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  21. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I am so sorry to hear that your Fred has pancreatitis and especially if it could have been brought on by the Friskies.

    Sending prayers and healing vines for Fred to feel better quickly.

    :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  22. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Thank you all for the love and support. I d k if it was the Friskies, for certain, but the change from Fancy Feast to Friskies coincided with this event. I've emailed Purina ( no response) and took all the Friskies back to Target and went to United and got Fancy Feast. Not switching again.
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sending many, many prayers for Fred to make a speedy recovery and :bighug::bighug::bighug: for you, Jayme.


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  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry to learn that Fred is in hospital. You've said he's experienced pancreatitis before so at least you have some idea of what to expect. Crossing fingers he gets well soon.
     
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  25. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    :( miss him, but thankful he's getting great care ... thank you all!
     
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  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Be sure to keep us updated. It's so hard being away from our little ones, especially when they're poorly. It is good to know that Fred's in good and caring hands.

    Will be keeping you both in my prayers.

    :bighug:


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  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Jayme.

    Just checking in to ask how you and Fred are doing.

    Prayers continue for you both.

    :bighug:


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  28. Audrey's Momma

    Audrey's Momma Member

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    Wishing good things for dear Fred.
    :bighug:
     
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  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Keeping Fred in our thoughts and prayers! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  30. donnalea

    donnalea Member

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    Sending up prayers for Fred and you.
     
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  31. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Poor baby not feeling well. It's hard being away from them when they are sick. He needs to be where he is now.

    I feel the same way about FF as you do about Friskies. It seems when I started using FF Smokey had a p'titis episode. So I won't use it again.
     
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  32. donnalea

    donnalea Member

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    Just checking in for news.:bighug:
     
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  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    More prayers on their way to you both.

    :bighug:


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  34. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Day 3 : Fred was sedated last night so they could replace his IV line that had gotten crimped and they gave him a partial bath because he had an accident. He didn't eat anything yesterday. But doc says being on fluids is probably better on the pancreas right now that solid food, but he will need to eat soon. He's very cranky which is why they had to sedate him. He even growled at me. He hates that place. The damn dogs bark day and night. I want him to get better and come home. I've slept very little. He's not beside me. Thank you all for the love and prayers. Keep em coming please. Hope y'all are well.
    Prayers for the east coast.
     
  35. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    (((Jayme and Fred)))

    Praying for you both round the clock.

    It's so hard having to leave our little ones somewhere they don't want to be but where they need to be to get medical help. I feel for you very deeply ...

    If there's any way I can help just let me know.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jayme, I just saw your post on Justyn's thread and I thought these documents might be helpful to you:

    IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

    Nausea, Vomiting and Appetite Problems - symptoms and treatments

    When you visit try to see if you can coax Fred to eat a little bit from your hand. Mush up the food a good bit so all he has to do is lick it. Even if you can only get a tiny amount at a time eaten it can help break the nausea cycle. If any food makes Fred uncomfy don't give any more of it. Maybe try bringing in some home poached chicken minced up very finely and some of the watery broth, too?

    More prayers on the way to you.

    :bighug:


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  37. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Thanks everyone ! He gets to come home! Picking him up st 4:00! Thank you all for the advice, love and support... now to continue on the path to complete healing. Xoxo
     
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  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Great news, Jayme! :bighug:

    Has he started eating? What meds are they giving you to take home for Fred?


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  39. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    I actually just requested they do an X-ray to make sure he didn't accidentally injest something.
     
  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it takes to get peace of mind and keep Fred safe, Jayme.

    With it being the weekend if you can get them to send Fred home with anti-nausea, appetite stimulant and pain meds it would be a very, very good idea.

    :bighug:


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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
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  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    :):):) !!
     
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  42. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    X-ray was normal! I pick him up at 4:00! With pain med, nausea and antidiarhea
     
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  43. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Great news! Sending a heap of scritches for Fred!

    :bighug:


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  44. Julie and Eleanor

    Julie and Eleanor Well-Known Member

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    So glad to hear this. Great news!
    :bighug:
     
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  45. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Fred is home ❤️ thank you Jesus ❤️ he had a semi- bath before I picked him up so his chest and belly is damp. He's coming out of sedation and is medicated. I'll be giving him pain med, anti nausea, anti diarrhea and appetite stimulant (for pancreatitis). Thank you all for your love and prayers and support.
     

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  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Once he's settled you need to sit down with a great big cup of tea - or perhaps something more "medicinal". ;)
     
  47. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Great minds!
     
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  48. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He nibbled at his food! Do y'all know how I'm feeling right now? Of course y'all do!!! ❤️
     

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  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Woot! :woot:

    Welcome home, Fred!

    :bighug:


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  50. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Glad your kitty is home! I hope he continues to heal and is back to himself in no time!
    Has anyone else had problems with this food? I have the same kind with the same SKU numbers. :nailbiting: I feed it to my non-diabetic cat, Kitty. He's eating and acting normal and he's 3 cans into the case. How quick did Fred's symptoms come on? My Kitty-cow is the pickiest fat cat I've ever met. He's down to 17.5 pounds but he won't eat very many kinds of wet food. I just recently got him off dry.
    Just trying to figure out if I should return them or if there's a different number on the case to see if they are from the same batch? I got mine at Walmart in NorthEast Pennsylvania, Friday 10/7/16.
     
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  51. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    So glad to see Fred is back home [​IMG]

    Sending lots of healing energy to keep Fred on the mend and get him back to eating with gusto!

    :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    More healing, anti-nausea, appy-stimulating vibes heading across the pond to Fred.

    :bighug:


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  53. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Well I can't say for certain that it was the food, the vet says pancreatitis isn't typically caused by food reactions. But his illness coincided with him eating a can of Friskies liver and chicken that I got in a Poultry Favorites multi pack. I wrote to Purina, they haven't replied. I took the food back to Target. They didn't know if any other cats had gotten sick. I d K what else could have made him sick other than just being a diabetic in remission and being part Siamese as these are prone to pancreatitis.
     
  54. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    My greatest worry with Saoirse was food. There was sod all she could manage to eat comfortably. It took me the best part of a year to find something that didn't irritate her pancreas. Even variations between batches were a worry.

    Humans with pancreatitis need to watch their diets very closely.

    How is Fred today? Is he eating a bit for you? Still keeping you both in my prayers.

    :bighug:


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  55. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    The workings of a kitties endocrine system are so inter-related that it is often difficult to tell what caused the problem and what started first. Interesting read on a kitty's endocrine system:

    http://www.petplace.com/article/cat...-and-function-of-the-endocrine-system-in-cats

    Since you noticed the problem in direct response to feeding the food, I would certainly not say that the food is not suspect. It may or may not be, but to be safe it shouldn't be given again.

    :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  56. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    PS - any inflammation in the GI tract could affect the bile and pancreatic ducts; they're very close together in the cat.


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  57. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    So glad to hear Fred is home! Happy times for you both! Sending more healing vines, prayers and feel good scritches for Fred! mini-graphics-cats-895360.gif
     
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  58. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  59. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Thanks for all the good info ! Mary Ann that white cat in the diagram looks like Fred. He still seems like he's very groggy from sedation 2 days in a row. And meds? He isn't eating this morning yet. I'm gonna sprinkle the Fortiflora on a bit of Fancy Feast with Pedialyte mixed in and see if he will eat. I have given Bupe or cerenia yet. I got no instructions from vet re admin with food etc.
    we've got Buprenorphine .15 mL
    Cerenia 16mg and Metronidazole .4 ml but he doesn't have diarrhea. There was about a quarter size bit of blood in his litter yesterday. No poop.
     
  60. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    That white emoji looks like Fred
     
  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Be very careful with the Fortiflora! It can make some cats nauseated.

    Do you have any freeze-dried chicken treats? Maybe try crumbling one or two on top of the food.


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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
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  62. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that funny I found one that looks like Fred? :D

    It would be a concern if Fred does not start eating at home. At this point you want to get him eating no matter what it takes. Please keep us updated
     
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  63. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good point Mogs. Fortiflora does indeed make one of my kitties sick (nausea and vomit) if I give it to her.
     
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  64. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Managing the nausea is key. You need to keep a little something in the tummy otherwise stomach acid can build up and that would just worsen the eating difficulties. When you give the Cerenia (assuming it's a tablet) you'll need to chase it down with a little water to stop it from lodging in the oesophagus. Syringe water across the mouth from cheek to cheek a little bit at a time to allow Fred time to swallow. I usually gave about 10 - 15 ml of water.

    Did the vet say anything about the intestinal bleeding?


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  65. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    This.

    Mash up the food with a little warm water and try offering it to Fred from your hand. Or try blending a little food and water into a purée and see if he will lick a little off your fingers. Try feeding very small amounts very frequently.

    If Fred is still reluctant to eat tonight I recommend in the strongest terms that you go to your vet first thing in the morning and get a prescription for ondansetron. Here's useful information Marje posted on another thread about nausea meds:

    Treating Nausea with Cerenia and Ondansetron


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  66. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He's drooling a lot so it's hard to say if the cerenia stayed down. I'm following it with syringe water. Should I give the Bupe even though he hasn't eaten? About fortiflora- he's never had it before. Should I wait and see if he will eat and how he responds? Really want him to eat but obviously he's not wanting to right now. I have no freeze dried chicken treats but will get some.
     
  67. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    I saw this thread before and forgot to tell the vet about the Ondan
     
  68. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Check his hydration levels ASAP.

    How long has he been drooling? Was it after you gave the metronidazole? (It is foul-tasting.)

    Don't be shy about taking him back to the vet today if required.

    What did your vet advise about dosing for the bupe?

    .
     
  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    What are Fred's energy levels like?
     
  70. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Check hydration levels how? He was drooling when I picked him up yesterday. Then he stopped ,and started again this morning. I didn't give him the Metro. He doesn't have diarrhea. He had a quarter size amount of blood in his box yesterday no poop. My vet didn't give me any instructions. I haven't seen him since I took Fred in on Wed. I talked on the phone with him once. He must have gotten some of the Metro before he came home because his drool was nasty smelling. I'm giving him water with my fingers and will try to get him to eat some watered down Fancy Feast with my fingers. A friend is bringing freeze dried chicken treats and syringes to give water.
     
  71. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He's not energetic at all. He just got home last night. We are both exhausted. But he is talking to the birds through the window.
     
  72. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    The food started giving Fred diarrhoea, Steph. Have you any other food you can give to Chuck? I think it would be a good idea not to risk giving him food from a batch that is in any way suspect.


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  73. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    This video shows the scruff pinch test to check for hydration. You can skip to about 35 seconds to see it quicker

     
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  74. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  75. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good that he is showing interest in his environment.

    What did the vet say about the bupe?

    How is Fred reacting when you offer food to him? Is he showing any interest at all in eating? Is he lip-licking licking or making yawny faces after attempting to eat? Sniffing at / licking some food then walking away?

    .
     
  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also, is Fred drinking at all?
     
  77. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He seems to be hydrated. He's been on IV fluids at the vets and he's not vomiting and no diarrhea. He's apparently just nauseated and uncomfortable as he's not lounging, he's in loaf position. I have a call in to the vet.
     
  78. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    He turned away from me when I put moistened food on his lips. He is urinating so I assume he's drinking.
    Thank you both for being here!
     
  79. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    The bupe should help with that.

    Very glad you've called the vet. Let us know how you get on.

    More prayers and healing thoughts on the way.

    :bighug:


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  80. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Second this!!! Sending healing energy and prayers and ((HUGS))
     
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  81. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like nausea alright.

    You need to keep a close watch on Fred's water intake. Measure the amount of water you put into the bowl and then measure it again in a couple of hours. Can you keep him in one room with you where you can monitor what he's doing? You need to make sure he's getting enough fluids - lack of adequate hydration will make him feel worse.

    Could you get a written Rx from the vet today for ondansetron and go to a pharmacy open on Sunday to get it filled? (It's a human medication.)

    I've been in your shoes and it's tough. I hope I can help you a bit, Jayme. :bighug:


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  82. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    I'm concerned about giving the Bupe as I'm pretty certain a that's what makes him hallucinate/ acted quite freaked out at the vets. I'm giving him water via a straw. And when I get a syringe I'll give some watered down food.
     
  83. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    With pancreatitis, which is very painful, the three things needed for sure are pain relief, anti nausea meds and hydration. Appetite stimulants are fine once the nausea is under control.
     
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  84. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014

    You can always remove the needle from a syringe and use the tube part to give water...it is really too small for longterm use but it is easier to use than a straw


    ETA a small pair of pliers will remove the needle easily
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  85. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Agree with Mary Ann; pancreatitis flares are painful. Managing the nausea and the pain is critical because the cat needs to eat.
    Ask your vet about the bupe dose. Was it given to you in pre-filled syringes? It might be possible to give smaller doses more frequently but you need a vet to advise you on this.


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  86. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Good points Mogs. I have used injectable bupe for pancreatitis for one kitty and for dentals for both kitties. Even though the dose was set up according to the weight, my girlie kitty was much more sensitive to the effects.
     
  87. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I know all about having a med-sensitive kitty. (((Saoirse)))
     
  88. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014

    You sure do know Mogs :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  89. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    BTW, Jayme - big :bighug: to your friend for offering to get supplies for Fred.
     
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  90. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    I donated his insulin syringes when he went into remission 16 months ago. But a friend is bringing me a medicine syringe. Oh and I checked his BG this morning and it was 61 which is typical for him. 60's-70's. Vet tech said Bupe can be given with or without good but she agreed that we need to get nausea under control with Cerenia first. She's checking with vet to see if I can get Ondansetron also. She said he needs the Metron because its antibiotic. Bupe can cause mania/ hallucinating because it's an opiate but he needs it for the pain. He's sitting under my rocking chair way in the corner hoping I can't reach him. Poor guy.
     
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  91. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Yes pre filled syringes .15 mL. He weighs 15 lbs. I'll ask when she calls back.
    ❤️
     
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  92. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    That's possibly due to the pain (hiding behaviour).

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  93. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Do all you can to get the ondansetron Rx; based on over two years of managing chronic pancreatitis I found it to be far superior to Cerenia alone for the treatment of nausea.
     
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  94. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Good news on the BG levels.
     
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  95. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    You need to work on BOTH.

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  96. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014

    As Mogs just posted you need to control both the pain and the nausea at the same time. If Fred is in pain that can cause extra nausea just from the pain. Pancreatitis is a very painful condition and pain causes nausea. If you treat the nausea first but not the pain, then you are just going around in a vicious circle.
     
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  97. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Going to vets to get Ondansetron. He's under the bed. My friend brought freeze dried chicken. I put some on a plate and slid it under the bed next to him. Not interested.
     
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  98. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Gonna drag him out from under the bed so I can give pain med and see if he'll take some food via syringe.
     
  99. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Sending a bucket-load of prayers that it will help.

    NB: it may take a little while for the ondansetron to kick in so be sure to ask the vets about giving BOTH Cerenia and ondansetron for at least a day or two. I suggest printing out the info from Marje to bring with you to double-check with the vets.

    Here is the relevant text (so you don't have to faff around with thread links):

    If he's over 10 lbs, you could give him up to 2 mg ondansetron every 8 hours. However, many of us have found that giving 4 mg cerenia every 24 hours plus 1-2 mg ondansetron (dep on cat weight) every 12 hours is an excellent combination. The two drugs hit nausea via different modalities and sothey work quite nicely together. In the old days, you could only give cerenia 3-5 consecutive days but that's no longer true. Also, cerenia acts as an anti-inflammatory. I have found some vets are in the know about using the two together and some are not.



    Mogs
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  100. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Hey guys they offered to sub a dif pain med other than the Bupe. Your thoughts?
     
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