? Furry mom to a newly diagnosed baby, needing help!

Hello everyone, and thank you in advance for any advice you may offer me. My name is Ara and my cat Garfield was diagnosed this Friday, November 4th with diabetes.

In May I left to Europe and was gone for 4 months, both cats were put on hypoallergenic prescription medication from royal canin. Upon my return, I noticed my boy was urinating more, and also drinking more.

I finally took him to the vet and his sugar levels were at 580, I have done a lot of reading, and a lot of people state that a change in diet could bring the cat into remission almost immediately. Both cats are now on Instinct raw, nature's variety grain free. They were on dry and wet food, but I have now stopped dry food as I have read that diabetic cats and all animals in general should not be on dry food.

I am a diabetic myself, so I home tested his glucose this morning and he has already gone down to 460, which is an improvement from where he was last week when he visited the vet.

My idea was to trial changing his diet for a week before going for insulin. Please give me your best advice, I feel helpless and terrible, and in a way, guilty. I think a mix of me leaving for so long and the royal canin triggered his diabetes, he was just fine before I left.

I would also like to mention that he is FIV+ but other than the diabetes, he is completely healthy and has been since I found him at just 8 weeks old, and he is now 9 years old.

Is my approach on changing his diet for a week before doing insulin a good idea?

Also, if adjusting his diet, how often do I feed him? they have both been free fed since they were small.

I work all day and leave my house at about 8am and do not come back till about 6 or 7pm. Which is why free feeding was so easy to do.

Please, please, help me! I am hurting just knowing my little boy has to go through this, I just want to make the best choice for him and make sure he is not hungry.

Again, thank you for your time, and any advise.

Regards,
Ara and Garfield <3

 

Hi Ara!
Welcome the best place you never wanted to be

Tons of knowledge and experience here...

I am so happy to hear you are home testing.... this is critical and it sounds like your on top of it already!
I also had hoped a diet change alone would bring my boy into normal numbers but the truth is that studies have shown the quicker you get them on insulin to help out the pancreas the better your chances of remission. It is VERY critical to be testing at this time because BG will drop on a low carb (under 10% diet)
Is there a insulin type you are leaning toward?
Lantus and levimer are depot insulins and pro zinc or (vetsulin >-which is not highly recommended ) are shorter acting or a "in and out" insulin...
I am sure the experts will drop in with expert advice...
Take a deep breath your doing great

 

@Tuxedo Mom

 

Hi Ara,
I am new to the forum myself, my boy smoky was just diagnosed at beginning of September. I think changing him over from a dry food is an excellent place to start. I don't know enough to be able to help out a lot. I have learned that when changing to an all canned low carb diet or raw diet, your kitty may need less insulin. I will refer to others who are more experienced than I am.
You could change your post title to something like "need help with diet changes" and change the prefix to a question mark.

 

Ara

Welcome to the forum. There is lots of information on FD and a whole community of people that can help guide you along with your treatment plan for Garfield. Huge kudos for being proactive and starting home testing. As a diabetic you know the importance of home testing and this applies to our kitties as well. Kitties have the unique ability to have their pancreas heal and be able to start working again, so the sooner the numbers can be brought down the sooner the healing can start. Changing to a low carb wet diet is very important and it is good to see you have made that change. However with many kitties diet alone is not enough and they need to be started on insulin.

There are a few types of insulin that are used with kitties. Because kitties have a higher metabolism than people or dogs, insulin shots are done twice a day, every 12 hours. The intermediate insulins are Vetsulin/Caninsulin and Novalin N/Humulin N. Some kitties do well on these, but many people find that they will not last the 12 hours between shots and often will only give a duration of 8-10 hours. Long acting insulins such as Lantus (glargine), Levemir (Detemir) and Prozinc are gentler longer lasting insulins that usually will last close to the 12 hours. It would be good to discuss with your vet starting insulin soon. Numbers in the 400s are too high to rely on diet alone.

A good tool for recording data is the spreadsheet. This is an excellent visual guide to show how your kitty is responding to insulin and help with making decisions on dose changes. Instructions for setting one up are here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/findmaggieliu/

and information on how to use the spreadsheet is here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

If you have trouble getting it set up ( I sure did) just ask and someone can help you out with it.

It would also be useful to have some information added to your signature.....type of meter used...pet meter or human meter, type of food being fed, date of diagnosis, type of insulin and starting dose once it is started, where you live,,,general area so that people know what time zone you are in, Garfield's name and your name (so we can be a little less formal ) all this information is good to have in your signature so that people don't have to ask these questions again in future posts.

There are information "stickies" in the different insulin forums. Once you have chosen an insulin you can read up on the ins and outs on how it works. Many people will use timed feeders for their kitties when they are away at work. A lot of members will freeze the portions and put them in the feeder, so that they defrost by the time it opens. There are lots of tips on handling different situations and problems, so just ask whatever questions you have and you will get lots on input from the members.

In the meantime keep reading and keep asking questions. That is what we are here for.

 

You are all so wonderful, I cried like a baby when I found out Garfield had diabetes, especially since he is FIV+ and worry about his immune system not helping him get better fast.

I am very familiar with insulin, especially Lantus and Humalog. When I was first diagnosed with diabetes I had no idea and went into ketoacidosis, I nearly went into a diabetic coma and my a1c was at 14 at the time, diet change right away got me off insulin, but I have forever been on Metformin, I do have some insulin pens that my doctor gives me, in the event that my sugar suddenly goes up, but it is not Lantus.

The meter I use is an extra OneTouch Ultra Mini (human) that I had, the strips are not expired and are one touch ultra brand, not generic. I use one touch delica lancets which are extremely thin and gentle (I hate pricking him). I tried the ears, but failed miserably as I was not getting enough blood, so I saw a video from a clinic who noted the paw is fine too, which is where I have successfully been able to get enough blood. Lucky for me, he has been fine with getting it done there and does not fuss about it.

As for the insulin the doctor recommended, she recommended Lantus or Prozinc. I of course only want what is best for him, so if Lantus is the best out of the two, please do let me know.

My biggest issue right now is learning how to feed him correctly, I have two cats. Garfield and Baby, do I put two cans out in the morning, and then again when I come home? I feed them instinct nature's variety canned food, no grain, no potatoes, no eggs, also gluten free. I feed them the 3 OZ (85g) cans, and according to a chart I read, these cans only have 3% carbs.

Again thank you for your replies and any others that may come after this post. I will edit my signature shortly.

 

Welcome Ari and extra sweet Garfield!!

Both Lantus and ProZinc are good for cats, but if you have a choice, I'd go with the Lantus...it's the only insulin that has a published protocol for it's use in cats and it's very successful for treating our sugarcats. Of course the best insulin for your cat is the one that works!!

If you go with Lantus, be prepared for sticker shock though, especially if you haven't paid for it in awhile. It runs about $300 for a 10ml vial and about $500 for a 5 pack of pens. Most of us are buying our lantus from Canada because it's 1/3rd the cost here in the states. All the info is in this post from the "Insulin from Canadian Pharmacies" thread. You're better off getting the pens because unless your cat ends up on a high dose, you'll end up throwing away about half of a vial, where with the pens you can pretty much use every drop since they'll last up to the expiration date on the box (usually at least 2 years). 5 pens will give you 1500 units of lantus which is enough to last most cats a year or more.

ProZinc is veterinary only and is a U40 insulin which runs about $100 for a 10ml vial....so a 10ml vial only holds 400 units and when you compare that to the lantus (a U100 insulin so you get 1000 units in a 10ml vial) it ends up costing as much as Lantus

You're doing all the right things to get started and we'll help you every step of the way to help you get your sweet Garfield as healthy as possible....and maybe into remission!!

 

Hi again!
I also have 2 cats and have always free fed and this often times is just fine for diabetic kitties too!
Eating smaller portions frequently can be easier on the pancreas. My boys at 16.5 and 17.5 years old so changing to scheduled feedings with fussy boys was going to be impossible for us.
Many of us use timed feeders and they have been a great resource. There is also a list in the stickys with a food chart for many foods under 10%
Many of us use fancy feast classic and some of the flaked feast. Daves has many options as well as many others.

As far as insulin it is really up to you and what you think word best with your schedule as far as testing and finding out when the nadir is.
I have used vetsulin which made my boy very depressed. Pro zinc which was better but only lasted about 7 hours for him. Lantus lasted longer but Dre would dive at +4 and my testing schedule to keep him safe was getting to be too much for both of us. We have been on Lev for almost a month and so far it has been working out really well. It is really your choice, but maybe some of the experts can help you decide.
I am sure more will give input.

 

I cried for a week when Dre was DX..... UNTIL I found this forum!

 

Thank you so very much, I am leaning towards the Lantus for sure. What needles do I need to get? I want to be sure he gets the right dosage as I am away from home all day and want to be sure nothing goes wrong. I do have cameras all over the house, so I can monitor him while gone, but if he has an emergency , that will not help.

Thank you again, I feel so much better knowing that I am not alone.

 

Sorry to be ignorant but what is 4+? is this what a cat reader shows?

So glad your babies are OK <3

 

Awww, i know that feeling. I am feeling better already.

 

Here is a picture of my little boy.

 

No ignorance at all!! We have our own language here and without us explaining it, you can't possibly understand!!

Since we're from all over the world here, just saying "my cat's blood glucose is 90 at 10:30" doesn't tell us much, so we use the "+ system".....+1 is 1 hour after the shot...+3 is 3 hours after the shot....all the way up to +11 and then the next cycle starts! It's always + however many hours since the last shot was given

If you look at our spreadsheets (located in most of our signatures) you'll see how it works better!

All these have half unit markings and are the correct syringes for U100 insulin and are available from ADW online:
UtiCare
Monoject
Carepoint
Sure Comfort
BD Ultra-Fine

They're also available at WalMart if you have one near you..Their Relion Brand 3/10ml, 3o or 31 gauge, 8mm insulin syringes all come with half unit markings and are only $12.58 for a box of 100 (although it seems a lot of WalMart employees don't realize that they DO come with half unit markings!!)

We do adjustments in dose in .25 unit increments, so having syringes with half unit markings is as good as it gets

 

Thank you so much, that helps!! Can I extract insulin out of Lantus pens with these needles? I found someone on theach forum selling me a box of 5 and I was told that could last me a long time, and the price is great too. Though the person said the following, do you know if this ruined it's effectiveness?

"The boxes were initially opened and needle caps placed on each one, then they went back in the box and into the refrigerator. The expiration date on them is July 2018."

Thank you again.

 

By the way, he is really missing his dry food. He should not have any, right? does anyone know the carb percentage on Instinct chicken raw grain free dry food?

 

By the way, what is nadir?

 

Nadir is the lowest point in the cycle.

 

Yes...we don't use the special needles that humans do with the pens....we use plain insulin syringes like the ones I posted above and just pull the insulin out of the pen. You just pull the cap off and there's a rubber stopper just like a vial has.

It's important that you don't push air back into the pens like you do a vial though.

My biggest concern is that nobody knows that guy and he just joined yesterday.....buying from strangers like that is always a bit of a risk since there's no way to know if you're getting Lantus or water....for a few bucks more, you can get it from Canada and know it's the real thing...Just my opinion

Right....1st, there are only 2 dry foods that are low carb enough for sugarcats.....Young Again Zero and Evo ....2nd, all dry foods must be rehydrated before the body can use them and this water is pulled out of the bloodstream...kidneys are the weakest point for any cat (and more so for diabetics) so the more water you can get into them, the better for those precious kidneys....and 3rd, the protocol that's most successful in getting a cat into remission is the Tight Regulation Protocol....to do TR, you must only feed a canned or raw diet. No dry food allowed

 

Ara, I'm not sure how long you could try feeding low carb food in order to see if Garfield BG comes down on its own but as you're familiar with diabetes and can test him yourself it is a good start. With the numbers he had when tested I suspect that he is properly diabetic and needs insulin but testing for a week should give you the clearer picture.
Regarding feeding I'm not very enthusiastic about free feeding - it depends on the cat. If I leave a lot of food for Rocky for the whole day he would just stuff himself, he is very greedy and would eat any amount in one go. Cats generally (specially diabetic) should eat few small meals as having large meal will spike their sugar level too much and is very difficult for pancreas to deal with. If your cats just nibble on food leaving food for them when you're not at home might work ok for you.
Marlena

 

Thank you for the advice and everyone else, I just checked Garfield and his sugar levels keep going down, he is at 416 this morning from his 580, the numbers on each test have gone down, I am so happy and hopeful that this will help, again, I am only trying this one week, I am already buying the insulin, just in case this does not help, but I pray to God that it does, for my little ones sake.

Thank you again all.

 

Good morning:

That is good to see the numbers are lower,,,,BUT they are still far too high. A kitty should have similar numbers to a person to be in a safe range. A non-diabetic kitty should run at 50-120 on a human meter. Also glucose readings at the vet can be higher due to stress..similar to "white coat syndrome" that people get with blood pressure readings done at their doctors office. Since most/many kitties are not happy about being put in a carrier, driven to the vets and having strange smells and sounds the readings at the vets can read as much as 100 points higher than readings done at home due to stress. That is another good reason that home testing is more reliable. Even with the food change Garfield's numbers are too high. Kitties can tolerate higher glucose levels better than people, but higher levels are still hard on their little bodies. The diet change will certainly help, but he definitely needs insulin as well in order to get the numbers down so that the pancreas can start to heal again.

One question..has Garfield had steroid shots for any other condition? This can also cause glucose levels to rise very high until the steroid has cleared the system properly.

 

Thank you, no steroid shots, and due to me being a diabetic I am familiar with spikes when I have taken steroids for strep, good to know that it works the same for them.

The only thing I noticed that started changing was right when I changed them to royal canin hallergenic diet, and of course once I returned from being away 4 months, I think that caused a significant amount of stress upon him. I just did not know it would affect him this much.

He loves the extra attention and cuddles he is getting when being home tested though, that is something I am very thankful for right now.

 

A higher carb food can certainly push up glucose levels but once the beta b cells in the pancreas are damaged over time, they need to be able to "rest" in order to heal. This requires bringing the glucose levels down much lower than Garfield has been running by using exogenous insulin such as Lantus. Some people have had good responses to a change to a low carb wet food diet and a period of insulin in order to help the pancreas heal. This may not necessarily be the case with Garfield, but if a diet change is all that is needed the drops in glucose levels are usually quite steep and quick once the diet is changed over. You could give it a couple more days to see how much the diet change is helping the numbers, but don't delay too long before starting insulin.

So glad that Garfield is being co-operative with the glucose testing. That certainly makes life much easier.

 

Certainly, I am already buying him Lantus. Do you do home testing and do you use a human meter? Or, are you using one specifically for cats? The meter I am using is very new, and I have always gotten good readings on it, I tested it when I got this one as an extra for traveling purposes.

Thank you again!

 

I have a pet meter AT2 and a human meter Free Style Lite both made by the same company and both require a very small drop of blood. I personally prefer the pet meter since it gives readings closer to the vet lab machines. A human meter tends to read lower when used on a kitty because of the difference in the blood components, but the protocols on this forum are written for use with a human meter.

One way to get a comparison with your meter and the lab machine would be to test Garfield at the vets before having a blood draw done for blood work, next time you need one.

 

Garfield is SO cute!

 

You're in good hands here. Lots of very experienced people to help you with just about anything kitty-related.

 

OH my is Garfield adorable and so lucky to have a mommy who understands diabetes-

I just want to clarify about free feeding-like @Marlena said it really depends on the cat.

My diabetic doesn't eat unless he is hungry or if he starts "diving" dropping BG fast he will eat fast and he will alert me (thank goodness)
If Garfield is a cat who will eat regardless you may want to try smaller portions. Until he is regulated he will be hungry and thirsty from the diabetes.

I personally always have food out but it is usually freeze dried chicken or salmon (pure bites or wild sides salmon) I put them in the vita mix or they will puke it. I keep it in the auto feeder so they always have snacks. I also leave a low carb wet food out when I go to work. (if he is low I leave a medium
carb 15% ish percent) I also have another kitty that needs to eat frequent small meals.
If you are going to give the young again you will want to follow the slower protocol as the dry stays in the system longer but will not bring numbers up quickly if he drops low. It is very expensive and VERY high calorie. The freeze dried raw is another option. (Stella and Chewys is a popular choice)

Having lots of data (testing /spreadsheet) will help you so much with how Garfield is going to respond and how you can "steer " with food and what carb percentage to try and level him out.

Many people here use human meters. I have used alpha track for over a year but I am pretty sure Dre will be a long term diabetic so we will be switching to a human meter and keep my alpha track for if he is running low or if his pancreas kicks into gear.

If you choose to use a meter for feline blood (alpha track2) ADW has the lowest prices especially if you auto ship but it is still expensive and the freestyle lots are very close to alpha track strips for much less as @Tuxedo Mom mentioned.
Have a great day!!
You got this

 

not ignorant at all.... I should have explain the "lingo" My bad

 

Thank you all so very much, I have been so stressed this weekend, that now my sugar levels are running high, I need to calm down, and just realize I have all of you to help! Again, thank you all so much.

 

Even though you are familiar with diabetes for yourself it is always a shock and a lot of stress when you find out your furbaby has diabetes. You are already much further ahead than a lot of people that are just starting out, with an understanding of diabetes and already home testing. You have lots of people here to help you as you go along, so you need to try to relax and just breathe! I dare say that everyone of us was in a tizzy when we first started, but it all gets easier and falls into place as you go along. You will do fine and Garfield will get the best treatment you can give.

 

@Aradia please remember to take care of yourself or you won't be able to take care of that extra sweet Garfield!

When vegetable was first diagnosed I cried & stressed out allot when it came to home testing & giving insulin, the extra stress made my blood sugar go up & didn't help any with the home testing & giving insulin. The calmer & more relaxed you are the easier it is for Garfield AND you.

One of the things that I remember the most from when I first joined here was someone told me "we have all been in your shoes before". It's so true, we've all been in your shoes before so we can understand what your going through.

 

Thank you all, I am sadden to say his sugar is up again, I am purchasing the insulin and setting up an appointment with the vet. Again, thank you.

 

Ara

Sorry to hear that the diet alone was not going to be enough to get the numbers down. But with the diet change and a regiment of insulin you will be able to get Garfield down into better numbers. It will be very useful if you can set up a spreadsheet to track your data...both what you have already and once he starts on insulin. If you need help with it just ask.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Let us know what insulin is suggested and the starting dose.

 

You'll be able to do this, Ara, and there's a great group of supportive people here to help. Once you see Garfield's numbers coming down you'll feel better about having to go down the road of insulin injections. He might surprise you and become regulated fairly quickly.

 

Hello everyone, just wondering if I need a prescription to buy syringes from Walmart and are they only available behind the counter at the pharmacy? Garfield is going for his appointment tomorrow, I purchased the lantus for him.

 

You can call the pharmacy at Walmart and ask. There are only a few states that require prescriptions for syringes. They should have said something about getting syringes when you picked up the insulin. If you go to the Lantus forum, they can give you information on ordering insulin from Canada so you can save lots of money.

 

Thank you so very much!

 

So the vet wants me to start Garfield on 2 units twice daily, his levels were 586 now when they checked it. Is that to high a dose to start him on? He weights 15.5 lbs, so he is a big boy.

 

The standard starting does in 1 unit twice daily. A larger cat like yours may require more insulin. If yo are not home testing I would go with one unit

 

I'd start at 1 u twice a day for safety's sake. You can always increase after a few days but you can't "unshoot" a dose that's too high.

 

My guy is 20 pounds
I consulted a feline diabetes specialist who also said 2 units bid
Very grateful for the experts on this forum because I took the advice of starting with 1 unit and he was going to low on just 1 unit
Over time we increased by 1/4 unit at a time for 6 cycles.
There is a slow protocol and a tight regulation that most of us follow.
I know it all seems overwhelming but it gets to be second nature.
Your going great and please ask any and everything as we have all understand the emotions that come with fd.

 

Thank you so much all, my glucose meter was off today when I checked him at the vet vs. their meter which is the alpha track one you all speak of. Actually, they tested his glucose by getting blood out, they did not even use the alpha track. My concern is starting him on 2 units and I leave to work and something happens and I am not home to attend to him, as a diabetic, I know high sugar levels are dangerous, but even more so if too low.

In the event that a cat becomes hypoglycemic, what is one to do? I drink orange juice when i get too low, not sure how to treat a cat though, advice please?

 

Lots to read here about treating hypos:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hypo-links-be-prepared-just-in-case.48385/

 

Thank you! I will start him on 1 this evening and check his glucose in the morning to see how high or low he is.