Getting started!

Hello all. I have come here because I need to help my boy Chopper, I don't trust my vet (looking for a new one), and I've had a crazy two weeks so I really need support!

In the past two weeks I rescued an orphaned kitten, my only child turned "school age" :-(, chopper was diagnosed with diabetes, my vet completely let me down and advised me to not bring orphan kitty back in although he had concerning symptoms, we lost the kitten. All in two weeks. I'm relieved because now I can get some sleep and focus on Chopper.

I am looking for help on what to do from here. I've changed Chopper from meow mix dry to fancy feast. But I completely declined the RX food and everything the vet had to offer because I don't trust him and can't afford it anyway.

So far I've purchased a meter and strips. I assumed there was a needle to get the blood out attached to the meter? But there's nothing there. I'm going to the pharmacy today so if anyone knows what other supplies I may need please let me know and I'll try my best to get it. Also, if anyone can help me read his blood work, that would be a big help because I have no clue what I'm looking at!

 

Welcome to FDMB. You have had an awful time lately and I am glad you have decided to get some good information on treating Chopper.

Are you currently using insulin...if so which type are you using and what dose? I am no expert but other than the glucose being very high I don't see any glaring problems with the bloodwork.

Changing from dry food to a low carb wet food is a very important first step, along with home testing. Fancy feast is fine for diabetic cats as long as it is the pate type, not the ones with gravy, which are higher in carbs. If you are already giving Chopper insulin then it is VERY important to be doing regular testing when you make a change like that. Some kitties can drop 100s of points in their glucose readings with a diet change. There have even been some members who have been able to get their kitties off insulin in a very short period of time, just with the diet switch.

To get better advice and information you should do another post over on Feline Health, since it gets a lot of "traffic" and you should get lots of responses. You have found a great site with lots of experienced people that can help make this process much easier for you and give you the information you need to know what is the best approach for Chopper.

This is the link to the Health Forum:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

 

I am not using insulin (I can't afford it at the moment and I'm hoping I can get this under control without it.) If all else fails I'll have to find a way to get him started on insulin. I figured that if I can at least get his numbers lowered while I figure how to get him his meds, he will have a better chance.

Chopper is eating tons since I switched foods. He was 16 pounds when I got him, now he's 9 pounds and very thin (he's a big cat) filled in 16 pounds nicely. Should I be limiting his food intake? Or just let him eat 3oz cans a few times a day?

 

With Chopper's glucose levels that high, he will need insulin, at least for awhile, even with the diet change. The diet change can help but the pancreas needs to heal and "learn" to produce its own insulin again. Many people will use Lantus, which is a good long acting insulin. In the US it is very expensive, but US members here order from Mark's Pharmacy in Canada and get it at a fraction of the price they pay in the US.

Chopper should be allowed to eat as much as he wants as long as it is wet low carb. With feline diabetes, the body can not properly absorb the glucose and the body cells are actually starving. This can lead to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which would be an emergency situation to be treated at the ER and can be deadly, and very expensive. Home testing is very important, but with high glucose levels like Chopper has he needs to be started on insulin.

 

I will be going out shortly, but you should post these comments over in Feline Health:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

to get more people noticing your post and giving you more information on how best to proceed.

 

For most cats 2-3 3 oz cans is normal. You want to feed enough to mail the ca'ts desired weight.
For a diabetic cat whose BG is not controlled like yours, feeding more may be required to main desired weight.

You need to get lancets and maybe a pen that used the lancets soy ocan poke the cat's ears to get blood. Usually the meter comes with a lancet pan and 5-10 lancets but not always. There are many type of lancets/pens available, see:
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/lancet.html

 

Thank you both so much. I am going to pharmacy now to get lancets and will update. When I click the link to the health forum you post, I see my post near the very top with a glasses icon I don't know what this means. If there's a moderator here who is willing to help me get this post to the right place that would be awesome.

Thanks again!

 

Get size 25-28g lancets for the first time taking blood. The large needle will help until his ears learn to bleed better. Even the "expensive" ones are no more than $10 for 100.

 

Is this a good way to start? In the store now.

 

I don't see the size, do you?

 

That only has 5 lancets. I don't use a device I only use the actual lancet and freehand the poking. It likely only has smaller 30-31g lancets. Look for the term Alternate site testing on the lancet box.

 

No but they have the same brand box of lancets 26g that I picked up.

 

Got alternate testing! Thanks! When should I begin to test

 

About 2 hours before you feed him to get a baseline that is not food influenced.

 

Sorry about that. You ARE posting on the Feline Health forum. I was responding to another person at the same time as you and they had posted in the Welcome Forum so I mixed up my comments...bad me. My mistake you are posting in the right place.

 

Update:

I watched videos and read everything I could. Warmed up his ear, rubbed and poked him 4 times. Couldn't get blood to form. The last try did produce a tiny spot, but not enough. I gave him a can of friskies because by then he was agitated and I'll try again in a Couple of hours.

I think I'm gonna have to sleep with one eye open. He's gonna hate me by the time the day is over if I have to poke him again.

 

Sometimes it takes time for the ears to learn to bleed. When you are massaging the ears, massage from the base towards the tip of the ear. That helps to get the blood flowing.

Even if you are not successful, give Chopper a low carb treat. Soon he will associate testing with treats and may start reminding you when it is time to test.

Also remember give yourself a treat for trying.

 

Make sure you backup the ear firmly. I just a cotton cosmetic pad. If y do not back the ear up the lancet witl mainly deflect the ear vice penetrating the ear. If yo are using a lancet pen start with setting it to its deepest settings.

 

Yes, what Larry said! Most of my troubles getting a big enough drop when I first started were from not using a thick enough lancet (26-28g work the best), and not backing the ear firmly enough (I use a folded tissue to back it--and then use the same tissue to put pressure on the poke spot after to stop the bleeding).

 

Since I use a rice sock to warm the ear I use that same sock to back the ear.

 

IT WORKED!! Thanks everyone. 264 READING. this is good right? Its much more on his blood work! My baby was so good. He hissed at me a few times and I told him I'm not afraid to be bitten if it means saving his life. He complied and held still long enough for me to find a vein and get a sample. I wasnt hitting a vein before.

Now, as far as insulin goes, will he still need it? Do I NEED An RX from the vet?

 

The good cat insulins (Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc) requires a script from your vet. N/NPH, a human insulin does not but nly lasts 8-10 hours in cats. Vetsulin/Caninsulin, a animal-only insulin also requires a script but does not work great in cats. It was formulated for dogs.

 

My vet wants to charge me almost $200 for insulin and he has pretty much demanded "hundreds of dollars in testing" just to get Chopper started on insulin. There is no way I can do that. Even if I pick up a night job. I have already put my self in a hole to get a dianosis. I went in expecting to pay less than $200 and ending up paying twice that amount. How urgent is the insulin need? Does anyone know? If I wait a month or two to get started on it am I putting Chopper at risk of getting worse?

 

If you go to the Free Supply closet forum I think someone has lantus pens for 35$
often people will donate supplies --

 

here is the thread
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-exp-i-found-a-little-more-35-per-pen.153819/

 

Did you see my post to you in the other forum to you? Reposting it here

Hi Danie,
I am a new member here also. My cat Gizmo is 15 years old and was diagnosed with diabetes two weeks ago. I was in the exact same spot as you! Very lost and confused. I know your scared and overwhelmed but please try not to be it will all work out. I thought for sure I would be able to give the injections or be able to prick the ear for testing but it is all really easy with a little practice. I had the vet techs show me how to do the ear and use the my meter i bought.
I found this forum and they have helped me so much!!You will be able to help your cat! One of the first things is the vet. My vet started with Vetinsulin. After all the help I got here and showed it to my vet we are now looking into getting Lantus and started home monitoring with a glucose meter and supplies. I won't have to keep going back to the vet to have the glucose tested since we are using the meter. My vet is an older vet and when this all started he told me no to home metering and that vetinsulin was what i should use which would be $50.00 every six weeks and another $40.00 for syringes and to buy expensive prescription diet and to come back for more testing which is like 22.00 each time. I was looking at a couple thousand dollars just for the year.
After gathering all this information and taking the meter supplies with me to the vet yesterday things have turned around and now I should be saving a lot of money. If your vet is not willing to work with you it is time to find a new vet that has more experience in feline diabetes. My vet is willing to now work with me.I hope this information helps you and please keep asking everyone here is really nice and will help you.

Also the sheba perfect portions are not on the food list but they are ok to feed as well.
All the info below is from my original post over on the health forum and replies from everyone on this forum.http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/recently-diagnosed-w-diabetes.154857/

You do not have to use the expensive foods they try to sell you. there is a lot more on on www.catinfo.org regarding the prescription foods
http://www.catinfo.org/#Prescription/Therapeutic_Diets_

Food- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/

Insulin- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...canadian-pharmacies.49608/page-2#post-1344374

Syringes- www.adwdiabetes.com/ type of syringes goes by which insulin you are using

Glucose Meter & supplies- This is what i bought and use it works great my vet approved it too.The cost for everything was about $25.00 totalhttp://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Prime-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System-Blue/20752266
strips- http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Prime-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-50ct/20752265
Lancet Device- http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Lancing-Device/34129433
Lancets-http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-30G-Ultra-Thin-Lancets-100ct/15084053
How to test on ear-
How to give injections-

Spreadsheet- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

 

Your current vet sounds like he just wants to make money. A cbc test and a glucose test are what my vet did first to determine my cat had an infection and then diabetes. Sometimes the infection is present and the diabetes comes up. If he has an infection that will need to be treated to. I would not waste time on finding another vet to at least get a cbc and glucose done. cbc was about 42.00 and glucose 18.00. You need a prescription for the insulin to get it. Look at my other post it has a lot more info. Has your cat been drinking a lot of water and urinating a lot? Eating a lot of food?Lost weight? A bottle of vetinsulin was 50.00 from my vet to start with. I highly recommend seeing a vet first before you start trying to give him insulin on your own.

 

Yes, he drinks like a fish and he is always hungry. (Only notice when I feed wet). The vet recommended Insulin and gave me a price for the RX, which is said is not so bad as long as he will be okay for a few months so I can save for it, at which point he told me that the RX alone is almost $200 but the constant testing is hundreds more. At which point I gave him the "you are crazy" look. And he told me that diabetes will be what "takes him"..... my vet is young, new practice and HONESTLY doesn't seem to be all about money considering that I called him several times to deworm and teat a rescue orphan and he completely brushed me off and said kitty seemed fine... (dead kitten, broken kids heart, SMH) he could've easily done "emergency" after hours treatment when I called but he didn't. So IDK IF I can really trust this vet's expertise on anything. He is recommending insulin and curve in office. My gut is telling me he's a dipshit. Idk... Maybe I'm just bitter. Nonetheless, I can easily obtain a written RX from this vet considering that in FL, He is obliaged to give me one. However,I would prefer not to step in to his office again. And I would rather obtain insulin for Chopper much cheaper than it is sold at local pharmacies, otherwise I would not be able to afford it. Is it illegal to purchase insulin for a cat "on the streets?"

I thank all of you for the links and help you have provided. I read somewhere that insulin for a cat costs less than having that occasional ciggarette or soda or monthly date night. So I am officially cutting back on extras in order to provide life saving medication. This is hard and the only support I have so far is from all of you "strangers" and my 4 year old.

I AM SO GRATEFUL!!

 

If you can get a script for Lantus or Levemir from your vet, we can teach you everything you need to know.

Once I got our script filled, we've never been back to the vet for China's diabetes (just other stuff)....I've listened to the people here who have so many years of real life experience dealing with this disease

Your vet is also totally wrong about diabetes being "what takes him".....the vast majority of cats (especially here) die of complications like kidney disease, cancer or something else totally unrelated to diabetes at all.

Here's a post that explains where a lot of us are buying our Lantus/Levemir from because it's 1/3rd the cost it is here in the states. A 5 pack of Lantus Solostar pens will last most cats about 2 years....that breaks down to about $8 a month for insulin

 

If you do go with Lantus or Levemir, all these have half unit markings and are the correct syringes for U100 insulin and are available from ADW online:
UtiCare
Monoject
Carepoint
Sure Comfort

They're also available at WalMart if you have one near you..Their Relion Brand 3/10ml, 3o or 31 gauge, 8mm insulin syringes all come with half unit markings and are only $12.58 for a box of 100

 

I would run from this vet so fast the door would not hit me on the way out. Whatever his attitude might be in terms of revenue generation, clinically it absolutely sucks to the high heavens. FWIW, I would far prefer a cat of mine to be treated by a vet who charged an arm and a leg but who was an effective animal health practitioner who took seriously any potential risk to the well-being of thier patient and who did their utmost to help and heal them.

His diabetes prognosis is, frankly, ill-informed at best (I'm being really, really generous here). Diabetes is eminently treatable. Perhaps your vet could learn something from this thread:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/bertie-9-years-diabetic-this-week-thanks-fdmb.151800/


Mogs
.

 

It sounds to me like this vet just has only had the basic training where FD is concerned. BTW, I'm so sorry about the kitten! I think this man needs a lesson in humility! He should've known that a worm infection can kill a kitten, he should be ashamed of himself. Does he know the kitty died? If not, I'd make sure he did, it might make a better vet out of him.

Regarding Chopper, you really should find a new vet as quickly as you can. Look at member BJM's signature, there's a link to a list of questions to ask perspective vets. I'd also make sure that they understand that money is an issue for you, sometimes they're able to work with you a little more on costs.

 

Go with your gut. Diabetes is very, very treatable in cats, and that statement shows he knows nothing about current diabetes treatment in cats. Bandit has been diabetic for over 7 years, and he's perfectly fine--a completely normal and healthy cat.

It's nice to have a knowledgable vet that supports you, but unfortunately this just isn't the case in some areas. If you can just get the script for the Lantus and order it from Canada where it is much cheaper, and a home glucose meter from Walmart, that's all you need to get started with his treatment. There are ton of very experienced people here that can help you figure out the dosing. Getting the five pack of pens is the most economical--they come to about $170 after shipping but they'll last you well over a year, maybe two. You can get a meter and strips from Walmart for less than $30. And syringes from Walmart are less than $15 as well. Food can be any low carb food from the grocery store--that's all you need to spend to treat his diabetes.

 

Just called Vet's office. He wants to prescribe prozinc but I asked for Lantus, he offered glargine. Is this the same thing?

I also asked the tech his view point on human meters at home and she said they aren't fond of it because human meters are inaccurate but if I were using an animal meter he would be more likely supportive of it.

I don't plan to stay with this vet... Or give him another dollar. I really just want the written RX. Should I be demanding lantus? Or is glargine equal?

I've learned from reading on here that there is little difference between my relion and an alphatack. What information can I give my vet about this?

 

Welcome. The only thing I can offer is to call different pharmacies and also the private ones. Ask if they will sell one pen. Here is a pet drug card that is honored at some known chain pharmacies. You will still need a prescription.

http://www.petdrugcard.com/lantus-coupon.html

Good luck.

 

Lantus is the same as glargine. If you get the RX get it for the pens not the vials. A pack of 5 pens can last a long time if kept refrigerated. You don't need the special needles that you can buy for the pens, you can use a 3/10ml 30 unit syringe with the 1/2 unit markings. (orange cap)

Human meters tend to read lower than the pet meters and vet machines, but since the protocols here were designed for human meters you can use the information guidelines. Also the pet meter strips tend to be far more expensive than the human strips. Many of the people here in the US use the Relion meter, which has a very affordable price for the strips. That is what costs the most with the meters, especially if you are testing as much as is advised.

Most US people get their Lantus (glargine) from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada at a fraction of what it would cost in the pharmacy there. I don;t have the link for it (as I am in Canada) but I am sure someone will come along and provide it.

 

I use both meters because I didn't know better. The strips for pet meter are very expensive and can't buy in store so if you run out your stuck. Since you have limited funds stay with human meter. You will go through strips quickly.

 

I just called walmart pharmacy and I was told if the vet writes Glargine, I can not get Lantus. But if he writes Lantus pharmacies can sell me the generic glargine if its in stock. So I have to get Lantus because this gives me more options. Also, I can use this to order from Marks Marine in Canada. I do have the link and the cost is incredible. I'm sure I can pull that together soon.

Just so I'm clear, the RX has to say pens in order for me to get the pens?

 

Get that vet to write the prescription for the Lantus so you have it and you may need a script for the syringes as well some states require it and walmart pharmacy sells them. Another member posted this for me on which states require to give it to you the script, https://www.avma.org/Advocacy/StateAndLocal/Pages/veterinary-prescription-orders.aspx
The pharmacy in canada has a box of 5 of the pens for 149.99 plus shipping or one vial for 99.99
https://rxcanada4less.com/index.html
crittermom let me know this "Lantus you'll need 0.3ml U100 insulin syringes with half-unit markings"
also Chris posted this important info
All these have half unit markings and are the correct syringes for the U100 insulin you use and are available from ADW online:
UtiCare
Monoject
Carepoint
Sure Comfort

They're also available at WalMart if you have one near you..Their Relion Brand 3/10ml, 3o or 31 gauge, 8mm insulin syringes all come with half unit markings

Here's how to use them...you just pull the cap off and there's a rubber stopper...just like a vial

 

As far as I know Lantus is still proprietory and is only made by Sanofi. There are plans to do a generic but last I read they have not yet released a generic form yet. But just to keep things easier have your vet write a prescription for Lantus solostar pens. They come in a box of 5 X 3ml "mini vials", although sometimes you can find a pharmacy that will break up the box and sell just one pen. It would still be cheaper purchasing online through Mark's marine Pharmacy and the vet can either phone the prescription in or you can fax or scan and e-mail them a copy of the RX.


ETA This article says that Lantus is still the only glargine available on the market at this time:

http://diatribe.org/issues/62/new-now-next/8

 

I would not wait on finding another vet and starting on the lantus if he is eating and drinking like that. It will take the lantus awhile in his system to get the numbers where they need to be. Also whatever tests that vet already did, you want that faxed over to the new vet so you dont have to pay to have same tests done over. I am just starting week 3 with my cat on insulin and trying to get it sorted out the number of units per day he needs with the vet helping me.
You will also need to monitor how much food you give him. Diet is a key part of all this as well. Did you get the wet food recommendations to try?I also posted coupons for a couple of the brands.
Let me try to break some numbers down for you from what I was looking at cost wise before i found this forum. The vet wanted for vetinsulin 50.00 and 40.00 for the syringes every six weeks. That was over 800.00 for one year not counting the food they were trying to sell me. After finding this forum if i switch to Lantus Solostar box of 5 is 144.99 plus shipping and they last a long time from what i learned on the forum.
If i did all all the things the vet told me on day one to buy and repeatedly come in for glucose tests etc it would be well over a grand a year and i can't afford that. With a meter you can avoid having to pay for multiple glucose tests at the vet. If you do some research on the food you can get it fairly cheap with coupons and sales from the regular grocery store. I just got a 24 pack with a coupon for like 6.00. now I am just working on securing the lantus i will need for as cheap as possible. Meter supplies with last awhile and the relion has the cheapest ones. 100 lancets was $1.48
how much money do you have to work with right now?

 

Not if you go to Marks in Canada....since insulin is OTC there, if the vet writes the script for a vial (of glargine OR Lantus) you can call them and request the pens instead

There is NO generic for Lantus being made yet....it's chemical name is glargine. I would bet that you WalMart pharmacist is trying to convince you of the same thing mine did (and so many others have reported)....that the insulin they sell for $25 is the same thing....well it's NOT and you don't want it!!

 

I purchased the relion prime and I've been testing him at home (practice) since yesterday. I have gotten stocked up on strips and lancets as well. Immediately after his diagnosis two weeks ago I changed him (and my cat who isn't diabetic) to fancy feast classics. Since then his numbers in comparison to the vets test have dropped significantly. I don't have much to work with right now but I should be able to order his insulin the first week of May, at the latest. I'm saving to order from Marks Marine.

 

Have you tried contacting Diabetic Cats In Need (DCIN)? It might be worth enquiring whether they might be able to help with the cost of the insulin. Check this thread for details on how to contact them:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/financial-help-links.131190/

If you haven't already done so I strongly advise you to pick up some ketone test strips (I think Walmart may do reasonably-priced ones) so that you can monitor urine for ketones. For general information (just to inform, not to scare! ) if you ever get a trace ketones result you need to contact the vet for advice on how to proceed. If ever you get a result more than trace ketones you need to seek immediate veterinary treatment in order to prevent the kitty from going into diabetic ketoacidosis, a life-threatening complication of diabetes. It's hard on the cat and very expensive to treat. Far better prevention than cure.


Mogs
.

 

I was just about to put an unopened box of ketone strips I have up in supply closet for free---I got Bandit under control pretty quickly when he went back on insulin last year so we never needed them. PM me your mailing address and I'll just mail them to you, if you'd like.

 

I got your PM, I'll mail them out first thing Monday.

 

just want to make sure you saw this...
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-exp-i-found-a-little-more-35-per-pen.153819/

 

@Rescuemamaprays ....Please do go ahead and contact DCIN! If you can get a script, they may very well be willing to send you a pen of Lantus and some supplies to get started sooner!!

 

I have filled out the form and I'm just waiting for this vet to call me back with info about the prescription! Once I have the RX I should be able to send the RX and apply for the assistance. I'm praying that chopper doesn't have to wait too long for his meds!

 

Thanks so much for all of your help everyone.

 

Can you work on putting up your spreadsheet, then members here or over on the Lantus board can help you immediately when they see the numbers. Here is the link for the spreadsheet instructions

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

 

Walmart has the ketone strips for the relion prime next to the test strips

 

My goodness. That spreadsheet stuff is complicated. It just gave me a headache reading those instructions. I'm not tech savvy at all. But I will do my best.

 

Before you get overwhelmed just start with a paper and pen writing down the glucose readings, date time and reading. I made mine into a chart on paper just something simple.

 

Fingers crossed. I hope that all works out for you!

 

Here's an example I posted for another member to show how the recording of test results in the spreadsheet works:

Example of Insulin/BG Test Schedule and Which Column to Use in the Spreadsheet

Insulin given at 8am and 8pm.

AMPS - Morning preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30am then food given
Dose: 1 IU - given at 8am

11am = AM+3
2pm = AM+6
5pm = AM+9


PMPS - Evening cycle preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30pm then food given
Dose: 1 IU - given at 8pm

11pm = PM+3
2am = PM+6
5am = PM+9

I hope the above gives you a better idea of how the times are recorded. Using the + system instead of conventional hours helps everyone to better understand each others' spreadsheets because different cats are on different insulins (where effect relative to dose time is different) and because members of the board are likely to be in different time zones.


Mogs
.

 

What does amps and pmps stand for? i am still confused not sure i can grasp the + system

 

Agreed. I don't know what this means nor do I have a good guess. I'm going to look at other members SS to see if I can get a good idea.

 

Amps is a.m. (Morning ) Preshot glucose number and pmps is p.m. (Evening) Preshot glucose.

The + means how many hours after shot. Like +2 is 2 hours after the shot, +4 is 4 hours after the shot.

 

Oh.. Am Preshot reading. Then one hour later,two hours later, etc? The same for pm.

 

Lol thanks. Now I feel silly. Its not that complicated.

 

One thing I'm still unclear on is how much to feed him. He's underweight. I am finding conflicting information.

Also the vet never called me back about the RX. I called as a reminder before they closed and I was told I would receive a call back in a few mins. :-(

 

Are they open tomorrow? I went through the same thing yesterday with the vet place I am dealing with and now I have to wait until monday for the vet to get back to me.
Can someone post the info in regards to feeding to gain weight with a diabetic cat? My cat is underweight to right now.

 

As shown above:

AMPS = Morning (AM) PreShot BG test

PMPS = Evening (PM) PreShot BG test

The '+' notation is used to indicate how long after a dose the BG was measured. For example, if you take a test 4 hours after a dose, you record the result in the +4 column. If you take a test 7 hours after a dose, you record the result in the +7 column.


Mogs
.

 

Since Chopper is not on insulin at the moment you don't have to fit feeding times and amounts to the way the insulin works. Since he's underweight it's OK to feed him more than you would if he were at ideal weight. At the moment his body can't use the nutrients he's consuming properly because there's not enough insulin to unlock the cells to let glucose in to fuel normal metabolism. It is very important that Chopper gets enough food because not eating enough can contribute to build-up of ketones and we don't want that.

If he were mine, I would feed him small, regular meals throughout the day and night rather than give him big feeds because the latter would be more likely to spike his blood glucose levels and put the pancreas under greater strain. I'd normally recommend using a timed feeder to dispense the feeds but given that funds are tight for you at the moment you might consider freezing portions of Chopper's low carb food. You could set out some frozen 'meatsicles' along with unfrozen food. The time needed to thaw the food will create a delay between when it is served and when Chopper is likely to eat it. Other members might have additional suggestions for you.

I meant to say last night that I was really very sorry to hear about how your vet failed your little kitten. I lost my Tara (at 6 years of age) to a very similar vet failure. I really feel for you and your family over losing your little one.

Keeping fingers and paws crossed for you that you'll be able to get some insulin soon.


Mogs
.

 

Chopper's RX is ready! Solostar pens (although I have been advised to not use syringes with them) and this vet is also willing to compare our meters. The only thing is the first curve "needs" to be done in office for $76. He wants to start him on 2units. Chopper is 9 pounds and he averages about 260 with home testing. Does this sound right?

I'm going to be getting some much needed help setting up spreadsheet soon. So hopefully it'll help understand what dose he needs.

 

My vet didnt even mention doing a curve in the office. Once he saw the meter he told me to test at home and call with results or email. I dunno this vet sounds like he is making money. anyone else here pay money for a curve i nthe office?
2 units i think is what they all start out with. my cat started out on 2 units twice a day and hes 11bs but his glucose was in the 400s the first vet visit when he was diagnosed

 

Chopper was in the 500s when he was diagnosed on march 10th this year. But...I changed his food and it looks like it helped a lot! I haven't even seen a 300 reading.

 

My conversation with the vet was funny! He realized that I know MUCH more than he thought (thanks to all of you) and I even referenced a veterinary website that mentions using the pens lol. So he agreed.

 

Did the vet elaborate on why not?

(Our vets recommend using the pen cartridges with conventional insulin syringes because it's far more cost effective. They don't even carry the 10ml vials in stock.)


Mogs
.

 

His numbers are still to high though. You want them in the 100 area.

 

I had the same experience with my vet. When I went back in for the second visit armed with all this information things changed very quickly.

 

Just as a cat doesn't become diabetic overnight so, too, does it not typically become regulated overnight: the body needs to 'relearn' normal numbers and that's achieved through a gradual process. Slow 'n' steady - and safe.


Mogs
.

 

The starting dose with Lantus should be .25u per kg, so his starting dose should be 1 unit, not 2. It doesn't seem like it, but 1u is a lot of insulin for a cat.

I highly recommend you use syringes (3/10 ml, 5/16" with half unit markings) with the pens, and not the pen needles. The dose needs to be adjusted in .25u-.5u increments, and you can only go up and down in whole units with the pen needles.

 

Also, if you're home testing you don't need to do the office curve. Home testing will be more accurate than an office curve because cats have higher blood glucose at the vet because of stress. I wouldn't waste the $76 if you're already struggling with money.

It sounds like your vet is kind of making things up as he goes along without really researching anything, so I don't think I'd trust his dosing advice anyway.

 

He said that its not the way the pen was intended to be used so it makes him a little uneasy to recommend it. I did give him a lot of information as much as I could and he offered to do some reading. Monday I'm picking up the RX, Applying for the help and I should be ordering his insulin soon soon (fingers crossed). I'll also call around to other vets. Do they usually give info about their practices over the phone?

 

When you start calling around ask them if they have any vets on staff that specialize in feline diabetes.

 

What I did was call and say that I was looking for a vet to take care of my diabetic cat and asked them to have the vet call me when they had some time (usually after hours)

When they called, I asked questions like, what kind of insulin do you generally start with? Are you open to changing if the first insulin doesn't seem to work for my cat after a decent trial period? What kind of food do you recommend? How many diabetic cats have you seen and how did they do?

You can rule out a lot of them that way....and if they aren't willing to call you back and discuss it with you, you really don't want them anyway

 

If you're ordering from Marks Marine in Canada, he can write the script for either the vial or the pens...You just need to call them and tell them you want the pens and they can change it for you. Since it's OTC in Canada, they can do that

Try explaining to your vet that the pens are just smaller containers for the insulin....instead of a big vial holding 10ml, each pen holds 3ml and when you pull the cap off, there's a rubber stopper just like a vial. You're not using the special needles that humans do, you're still going to use the same 3/10ml insulin syringes you'd use if you were using a vial.....you're just "sucking the insulin" out of a smaller container