glucometers & food?

Hello everyone,this is my first MB.I have a cat that has been diagnosed with diabetes for 3 yrs.,at first he was getting 6 units of PZI twice daily,then 5, now 3.I always fed him science diet lite since he was always a big cat,after he was diagnosed and after a little research I switched to innova lite then evo salmon formula(new),for some reason he doesn't like canned.I now feed him 1/4 cup twice daily with a snack in between (egg whites with 1% milk & water,raw chicken or pork or beef,sometimes the water from a canned tuna-not all at once)he hates going to the vet,and has to be gassed when he goes for glucose checks.The problem I have with vets is since I have been taking him ,they just seem to want to take my money and not help, one office had 3 doctors who all gave me different advice and charged me different prices(although they were all above $100).I have asked about home testing since he and I both get SOOOO stressed out and I've read they can't take an accurate reading with so much stress,but they said it wouldn't be accurate.I have to take him to the vet so I can order insulin for him.I have an appt. on friday @ 2:30 and finally they said they would show me how to monitor his glucose at home (after a very long discussion about distrust,charges,taking advantage of pet owners doing the right thing for their pets and medicine in general being more business than helpful),anyway during the discussion she mentioned selling me a glucometer.I was wondering if I should buy my own or follow their advice,and if anyone has a better solution for food,I am very uneasy because of all the recalls.I would be devastated and angry if he passed away from food poisoning.
Thanks

 

Welcome.

You can use a human glucometer. The vet ones are more expensive, the strips are more expensive and if you can only get them from the vet. I believe the cheapest glucometer with the cheapest strips is the Relion from Walmart. So pick one up and take it to the vet appointment. (By the way, you don't need your vets approval to home test.)

Remember, even the best glucometers have an error variance. I can't remember what it is. 10%?? 20%?? So if they compare, remind them that all meter vary.

Check the "Health Links" board for home testing tips and other helpful information.

 

Most everyone here uses human glucometers because they are less expensive and the strips are less expensive and available at regular pharmacies, rather than having to get them from your vet. I've been very happy with my True Track, which is a generic sold at many stores, although some here don't care for it. I believe the Relion Micro from Walmart is one of the cheapest, has much cheaper strips, and takes a very small amount of blood, which is key with hometesting, especially if you have a fractious cat. There's an offer for a free meter (and I think 10 lancets and 10 strips) here: http://www.contouroffer.com/

Make sure you fill in the info. as if it were for a human. Also be aware that it will take a couple weeks to get to you, so you may want to buy one sooner.

It would be best if you could get your cat on a low carb, grain free canned food--definitely better than the prescription stuff the vet wants to sell you, and often less expensive. There is a ton of information about the benefits of wet/canned or raw food, as well as tips for transitioning even the worst dry food addicts to wet food at http://www.catinfo.org. You want something that is below 10% carbs, and there are many choices on Janet & Binky's Food Charts here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

Most importantly, read as much as you can on this board. There are stickies here that will help: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=14

 

Don't buy an expensive glucometer from the vet.

Human glucometers from any pharmacy do a fine job for our cats.

The Walmart Relion is very popular, though my favorite is Maxima AST which I ordered online from www.hocks.com.

Usually the vet gets a blood sample from a vein - this is very tricky to try and do at home, AND the human glucometers are designed for use with capillary blood - not from a vein.

We prick the edge of the ear for a tiny drop of blood. There are videos on how to do it. If you post your city/state, perhaps someone here lives nearby and can demonstrate for you.

Most of us have had to show our vets how we test ---

The main considerations with choosing a glucometer --- cost of test strips (mine run $15 per 50 ct when I order 300 at a time)
"sipping action" or "approved for alternate site testing" --- this means the test strips sip the blood drop from the end - easier that trying to drop it into a hole on top of the strip
"0.3 microliter blood drop size" 0.3 or 0.5 are best. 1.0 or bigger are surprisingly large drops and hard to get a big enough sample.

 

I'm going to ask you a question first It looks like you are feeding a fair bit of food that does not have the proper nutrients for cats; if you are going to feed a homemade diet then it has to be supplemented....

 

I was just doing some reading up on that,I think I will do a raw food diet for ash once I inform myself a little more-but the snacks/treats are only midday and not much,just a hold over til next meal-previous vets had told me to feed twice daily and a treat in the middle,he actually doesn't eat that much,1/2 cup total daily EVO herring & salmon formula grain free, 10% max carbs, 85% herring,salmon & dairy,and 14% vegetable and fruit(I know now dry food is bad, and fruit & vegetables aren't good either), but I'm learning from people in the same situation as the vets were profiting from their bad advice-hence username.I really do appreciate all the advice & comments, this is so helpful-wish I would have done this 3 yrs. ago-thankyou everyone

 

I was just doing some reading up on that,I think I will do a raw food diet for ash once I inform myself a little more-but the snacks/treats are only midday and not much,just a hold over til next meal-previous vets had told me to feed twice daily and a treat in the middle,he actually doesn't eat that much,1/2 cup total daily EVO herring & salmon formula grain free, 10% max carbs, 85% herring,salmon & dairy,and 14% vegetable and fruit(I know now dry food is bad, and fruit & vegetables aren't good either), but I'm learning from people in the same situation as the vets were profiting from their bad advice-hence username.I really do appreciate all the advice & comments, this is so helpful-wish I would have done this 3 yrs. ago-thankyou everyone

 

cool. you can feed up to 20% of calories unsupplemented; see Dr Lisa's page for recipes

any other hometesting questions?

 

Something that disturbs me is that you state you feed your cat egg-whites....

RAW Eggwhites are a big no-no !!!!! There is a protein in raw egg whites that can cause
kidney damage in cats...

Also, RAW PORK....nooooo......

 

I think that's what I was reading-it's a lot of information to take in all at once the diet and glucose checks,but with time and due diligence I should be fine and have more precise questions about the subjects-I do find it funny that he will eat raw fish or chicken,pork or beef but not canned food,so I think raw food is the way to go-BTW congratulations on your success story-that's great

 

I did not know that-I usually give him a treat around 2:00 daily,sometimes the eggwhites mixed with milk and water,sometimes pork or chicken or beef,but always raw-I was thinking about what a wild cat would eat- I do not feed him the whole mixture,it will last 4 days in fridge-I will stop this right away though-I have told my vet this with no such response,I will mention it again on friday just to see what they say(another new vet in the future)
Thanks for the info

 

Hi and welcome! Just wondering where you are located. If someone on the board lives close enough, they can come and show you how to home test. It is very simple to do once you learn. I have to echo that you do not need the meter the vet wants to sell you. Human ones work just as well. I took my relion meter to the vet with me and tested Spot with mine and they tested with theirs....it was two points off...
Good luck!

 

I live in wildwood crest N.J-it would be great if that would happen-I would also like helpful vet recommendations as well-I think talking about the issues here (good & bad) are very helpful

 

I will ask Dr. Lisa to comment about the raw egg and the raw Pork....she's our resident feline-nutrition
specialist vet.

 

Th problems with raw egg whites are 1: possible salmonella poisoning and 2. they prevent absorption of biotin, a vitamin. Cooked egg whites are a good source of low-phosphorous protein.

 

Hi Karen,

I think that you may be getting confused with the biotin issue that Larry posted about.

Egg white protein is considered the 'gold standard' protein against which all other proteins are measured. It gets a score of 100 whereas chicken, beef, etc., score in the 90s.

Egg whites are a great source of close-to-phosphorus-free protein which make them great additives for CKD patients.

Regarding cooking or feeding them raw - Cooking does destoy the avidin which is the substance that binds to biotin decreasing its ability to be absorbed.

Raw pork.....I would not suggest feeding raw pork due to parasite issues.

 

OK, red flag. You were feeding Science Diet Lite and have now gone to EVO? I don't know when those insulin doses were changing, before, during or after these food changes, but changing foods without changing a dose (and monitoring) is dangerous. Science Diet is nasty food to begin with (I think perhaps you figured that out), and lite might be lower calories but it's generally higher carb. (And Hills seems to look for ways to make things higher and higher carb.) And EVO theoretically is the lowest carb dry out there. So you've made a huge switch that can have a huge impact on insulin needs.

Again, I don't know when you dropped the dose, and I don't know when you changed the food. So I just wanted to make sure this got pointed out for safe-keeping.

As for not liking canned, some cats love it and some are more difficult to change. Sometimes it requires a lot of diligence. My one cat, wow, it took me literally years to get him to eat all canned.

Check out this site:
http://catinfo.org/

P.S. Find a new vet! If you have to guilt them into cooperation, time to leave. Good, trustable ones really do exist.

 

I concur that you should cook your eggs.

Wouldn't worry too much about raw pork - the USDA hasn't found trichinosis in pork in a good 20-30 years, and I've seen commercial suppliers like Nature's Variety introduce it to their raw foods.

Unless Dr. Lisa has read about other parasites I'm not aware of...

 

I sent a PM to Peggy and Mickey. She lives in Cape May.

Dr. Robert Moffatt of the Cape May Veterinary Hospital helped us a year or so ago with a very ill diabetic we were trying to rehome (Scabby/Lewes). Lewes didn't make it, but that was no fault of Dr. Moffatt's. I don't know how Dr. Moffatt is with routine diabetic treatment, but the man definitely has a huge heart, and he is very aware of the FDMB.

Venita

 

A few months ago, I was wondering why there wasn't any pork based cat food. The closest I have ever seen is "beef, liver and bacon". You can get tuna platter, chicken feast, turkey and giblets, duck, etc. etc. But I have never seen "Ham Dinner" or "Pork chop feast", or any other variety of pork.

So I started researching. And according to everything I read, cats just don't digest pork well at all. Apparently, the fat molecule is so big they can't digest it; it doesn't break down and get absorbed. However, as an occasional treat, it is probably fine.

If you are offering chunks of raw meat, please continue - it's a great way to clean their teeth!

As for the meters - human ones are fine. We have done exhaustive testing here, and the "animal" ones are just more expensive. You are quite right in thinking that the stress at the vet's is skewing the results. Stick to your guns.

 

I wonder is there no Aujeszky's disease in America? I always was taught not to feed raw pork to my animals because they could get Aujeszky's disease (pseudo-rabiës). But that's in Europe.

 

Actually, if you look at the Hill's and Royal Canin - I have their nutrition data in front of me - they are loaded with pork fat and pork by-products and pork liver.

In fact, RC makes a renal diet that called "LP - Pork".

I am not understanding the comment about pork fat molecules because the body should be able to break them down. Plus, several pet food companies do use pork fat as a source of fat calories. Of course that last statement does not make it right.

 

I believe also the Hill's AD is pork. I know Hill's is tabu here, but for animals that need to eat NOW, A/D seems to be a life saver.

I gave it to Butchie for quite awhile. I also gave it to Maynard after Butchie died and Maynard stopped eating and started getting jaundice. The AD brought him back to life and he started eating again within 24 hours.

 

Water
pork liver
poultry liver
chicken
corn flour
pork protein isolate
fish oil
chicken liver flavor

protein calories - 33%
fat - 55%
CHO - 12%

When a cat is sick and not eating....ANY food is good food!

 

Thanks everyone for your support & suggestions;I will start cooking the egg whites from now on, although I am curious about the phosphorous protein mentioned(never heard of it);the pork I sometimes give as a midday treat is tenderloin so I wouldn't think fat is an issue,but I will also cook and double check;the reduced amounts of insulin were instructed by the vets,and the last visit I told her what I was feeding ash and she said keep doing what I was doing because it was working;they will probably have more to say tomorrow since he's lost some weight and been on the new diet longer;I also have karo and monitor his urine amount as well just to be safe;unfortunately his visits are few and far between because of the stress, and I wait till the last possible moment because of it, but the home monitoring should change all that;I used to be a server in Cape May and know a lot of people there, I've even waited on Dr. Moffitt,and you are right he is a great guy;I have to say it feels great to communicate with likeminded people and I hope to pay it forward one day;with all the support, I feel as tall as the persian king in the movie 300, I think the vet is going to be quite shocked tomorrow;I won't be rude, just confident and thorough.
Thankyou again

 

Thanks everyone for your support & suggestions;I will start cooking the egg whites from now on, although I am curious about the phosphorous protein mentioned(never heard of it);the pork I sometimes give as a midday treat is tenderloin so I wouldn't think fat is an issue,but I will also cook and double check;the reduced amounts of insulin were instructed by the vets,and the last visit I told her what I was feeding ash and she said keep doing what I was doing because it was working;they will probably have more to say tomorrow since he's lost some weight and been on the new diet longer;I also have karo and monitor his urine amount as well just to be safe;unfortunately his visits are few and far between because of the stress, and I wait till the last possible moment because of it, but the home monitoring should change all that;I used to be a server in Cape May and know a lot of people there, I've even waited on Dr. Moffitt,and you are right he is a great guy;I have to say it feels great to communicate with likeminded people and I hope to pay it forward one day;with all the support, I feel as tall as the persian king in the movie 300, I think the vet is going to be quite shocked tomorrow;I won't be rude, just confident and thorough.
Thankyou again

 

Lisa, dvm............. haha_smiley haha_smiley haha_smiley

I knew I would get you with the Hill's stuff.

I know it is bad and I don't like Hill's myself either, but it was the ONLY thing I could get either of them to eat.........willingly..........I think it stopped Maynard from slipping away. I hated to do it but like you said.........when a cat is not eating............ANY food is good.

These were the only times I ever used A/D.

 

Thanks for the clarification...
I knew there was 'something' about raw egg white, and I personally just would not feed RAW pork...too risky.

In the book, 'The New Natural Cat', that author also cautions against Pork because of the large fat molecules.
Haven't got my copy handy to cite the exact passage (I'm in AZ, the book is in WA ).

 

[quote="Karen & Smokey(GA)In the book, 'The New Natural Cat', that author also cautions against Pork because of the large fat molecules.[/quote]

If this was true, then I think a lot of cats on Hill's and RC diets, etc..etc....would be having problems with diarrhea.

If the large fat molecules were not broken down and utilized but, instead, stayed large and intact, I would think that this would cause an osmotic diarrhea.

Plus, if this was true, I can't imagine Hill's or RC using it as a fat source.

Plus...it just does not make sense to me why pork fat would be significantly different from other animal fat.

Another thought....if pork fat is not digestible.....then we could eat a lot of bacon and not worry about the fat content!

I realize that you made a distinction specific to cats but I still find this a head-scratcher......

 

Dr. Lisa wrote:

>Another thought....if pork fat is not digestible.....then we could eat a lot of bacon and not worry >about the fat content!

>I realize that you made a distinction specific to cats but I still find this a head-scratcher......




Well, you know how some things that we 'know' take on a life of their own.
Maybe this is one of those things some folks 'know'....so don't confuse me with facts.

Anitra Frazier also says avoid the 'ham' varieties of meat baby food for cats.

And I have always 'believed' that pork fat was worse even for humans....don't remember
why I got that idea. Higher in saturated fat ???

Maybe worth investigating further.

 

This is a subject that I have been doing a lot of reading on lately for my CKD diet formulations.

Definitely....not all fats are created equal!! Lots of differences.

 

One more thing --

Nearly everyone's cat gets easier to blood test over time if you are confident. See this video before you see your vet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

YES nearly every cat gets this easy to do over time. They get nervous when YOU are nervous. You both get used to it and it's no big thing.

 

I haven't done the intensive research that some of you have, but I can add that I have been using pork as part of the rotation (all three of mine eat raw) for at least three years with no problems.

 

Hi Venita,
I havent been on the board in some time. I would be more than happy to help with testing. I start night works tomorrow Sat. at 10 pm to 6am for the next 5 days. Maybe she can call me tomorrow morning. I will go over. Does she have a bg tester? If she does not I will bring my own with me. Then I will go to walmart and get myself another one. No biggie.
I havent quite mastered this new board. I'm not sure but I just got all the messages from the poster.
Give me a call or postme back. I dont have a computer at home. But am near one for the next couple of hours.
Best reguards,
Peggy

 

Peggy

could you delete your phone number and send venita a private message instead? Just click on her name I think...

 

sorry im not used to the new board yet i thought i was giving venita a pm. my bad

 

I can't take it any longer-ENOUGH!!!

Well, I just came back the vets, and after waiting 1 hour with no communication I left; it takes me 35 minutes each way;my appt. was at 2:30 and I left at 3:30;15 minutes later I received a call from them asking where I was at and if I wanted to reschedule.I said no.This same office called me wednesday and spoke loudly over the phone to me about how they could not authorize an insulin prescription because they haven't seen ash since 1/25/09 but 15 minutes earlier they said it was OK for me to pay $112 for their U40 insulin, almost three times the price I pay for U100 from wedgwood pharmacy;now I don't have enough insulin to make it through the weekend.I am seriously thinking about buying a can of tuna,going to an empty fishing pier or park with lots of birds and putting ash down by injection.Ash is over 10 yrs. old(human),the vets think I am an asshole/jerk,people I know and family think I'm CRAZY for doing and spending so much for a cat,I have never had a vet who didn't try to sell me something or charge for unneeded tests,nor one I could refer or respect.It's just not worth it anymore,I have had enough!!! To all vets out there who might read this or speak to someone who has,what you think are patients/appt.,are peoples pets/family and sometimes the only things that bring JOY and SADNESS to their lives,they should both be treated with the utmost respect and delicate care,for you to get over the loss of a patient/appt. takes nothing ,but for a person to lose this pet/family member, it is TOTALLY DEVASTATING, a lot more COMPASSION is needed and deserved.

 

Please, calm down. I know you are upset, but if you look a few posts up, there is a lady named Peggy who is willing to help you out. And surely there are other vets in your town/city? All is not lost, your cat is only 10 which is relatively young, and we are here to help.

 

Yes, do please sit back and take a few deep breaths.

The first time I came on here (August '01), I'd left the vet's that day VERY ticked off. That vet is now referred to as "killer vet," if that gives you a clue. (No, she didn't actually kill my cat but probably would have if I'd stayed.) I decided at that point that I would do my own research and figure this stuff out for myself. And started following the advice on here immediately, not because I was blindly following it, but because it just made sense! Maybe I didn't know what I was doing, but I could sense logic when I saw it. (And I was sensing something in what the vet was doing was not right.)

Sammy was 10 when he was diagnosed as well. He lived five more years, and I lost him to cancer, and nothing to do with the diabetes. So it's well worth treating. You could have several more good years with Ash. Never mind the people who think you're crazy. Sometimes they are the only things that bring joy - and some people have not experienced that bond with a pet. Ignore them.

You just need to find another vet and get away from ones that are making you so angry and crazy. My vet isn't the least bit like that, so they aren't all horrible. But he's also the sixth one I went to. Sometimes you just have to find the right one.

Not only is Peggy willing to come and help you out, but hopefully also has a better recommendation for a vet. You'll find the people around here really do want to help you, just for the sake of helping you and your cat.

 

did someone get to meet with this person and calm her down? I don't see any other posts? I have been off the board sick and trying to get caught up?

 

Peggy and I talked about her going to help, and I sent PMs to "distrusting" with Peggy's contact info, but "distrusting" never responded to me. I don't know whether she contacted Peggy, but I never heard back from Peggy, so I doubt it.

 

She sounded so upset, can you try again to contact her?