Glucose levels dropping a lot

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Kathleen Einwich, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    My cat Bet was diagnosed with diabetes at the beginning of this month, and I began the vet's suggestion of 1 unit of Lantus twice per day about that time, and started him on FF classic pates and the occasional Friskies can on the 11th of November.

    I've been hesitant about glucose testing, as y'all can see by my spreadsheet. I was very worried about putting Bet under more stress. His levels at the vet's office were very high - I think partly caused by stress of being in that noisy place and dogs barking. We live in the country, and it is very quiet here. I decided today to start tests again: do a morning before food & shot glucose test, one about 6 hours after feeding, and then I'll do one sometime this evening, to see where he's at.

    I was very surprised to see his levels have dropped significantly. It worries me a bit - it even dropped after he had his fill of food this morning, with some left over for grazing - on the 3pm test. Do you folks think I should just continue the tests and not worry, or reduce the dosage? I know it is perhaps a bit early to make a decision, but this latest test with its level dropping nearly 20 points in 6 hours scares me. Maybe I need to put food down more often? I usually feed during the day or night anytime when the cats ask. Bet is acting perfectly normal even with these levels, and sleeps a fair amount of the time, which is the way he's always been. Right now he wants food, so off I go!
    TIA,
    Kathy Einwich
     
  2. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Kathy, welcome! Have you had a chance to look over our “stickies” on top of the Lantus forum? It provides two possible protocols you can follow that will help you know when it is best to reduce or increase the dose (Tight Regulation, and Start Low Go Slow.) Depending on which protocol will work best for you, the guidelines for a dose decrease are different.

    Take a look and feel free to ask questions.
     
  3. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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  4. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    PLEASE retest Bet now, post that reading and feed Bet a couple of tsp. of LC food to get his BG up a bit.

    A 20 point drop is often an insignificant drop and nothing to concern yourself with but in this case it looks like you gave insulin at a reading of 74 which is only 24 points above the take action reading of 50 if you are using a human meter. Normally we would recommend you not shoot at a reading of about 150 to 200 until you have more data to see how Bet is reacting to it.

    It looks like you have been giving insulin only once a day? Lantus works best with consistent doses given twice daily and it's very important to make sure you get a BG reading before giving insulin to ensure it is safe to do so.

    I can't stay with you right now but will tag some folks to keep an eye on you and provide further assistance if need be.

    @Bobbie And Bubba
    @Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Can one of you keep an eye on this thread please? I can't stick around but kitty is in low numbers and Kathy may need a little support and assistance. Thanks.
     
  5. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If Bet continues to be in low numbers or has gone any lower, please give him a bit of honey or karo and post for assistance. If his BG is still low you can change the title of this thread to add a "911" prefix to get more eyes on it ASAP.
     
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  6. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Thanks. All I can say now is, wow. I was planning to test Bet again before his 9pm shot. The glucose test this morning was taken before he ate, and the 3pm one about 6 hours after he ate. Perhaps I'll test again at 6pm as well. He ate a little while ago and we'll see how he is. I thank you for the advice regarding no insulin shot if the reading is too low. I was wondering if I should do that. He's tolerating the glucose tests a little better but struggles pinned in the towel. His ears look like he was in a fight, but I hope I will get better with the lancet et al. I suspect I need to feed more often, too, I guess - maybe that will help bring his numbers up. Unless someone tells me otherwise or I read otherwise, if this low reading trend continues I think I should reduce Bet's shot dose to .5, in a day or so, and not give him a shot tonight at all. Please tell me what y'all think.

    Should one test after or before feeding generally? Like the morning test and shot? I read something that said in the morning, test after he's had no food for 2 hours or so.

    So below 150 or so, at the present I shouldn't give Bet his scheduled shot? I think how recently he ate has a significant effect on the reading. Last night they did not wake me up and ask to be fed at 330am, so they didn't get anything. I've been putting down larger amounts of the FF, entire cans. Neither of them finish all of it but at least his sister Abby doesn't push him off of his food bowl anymore. Bet seems to go back to his food later. It's pretty much impossible to feed them separately - they get spooked or Abby will go to where Bet is being fed and try to run him off. They're brother and sister but have never gotten along.

    I was under the impression from what I've read linked from here and elsewhere that a reading in the range of 80-120 was very good - his previous ones were well over 200 and I was very surprised to see them so low today. Maybe the new food I have been feeding for the last few weeks is having an effect.

    I am not fully versed on the use of the spreadsheet yet. I generally haven't understood spreadsheets, even in my working days.

    I wasn't sure where to mark the 2nd dose on the sheet, so I just took a guess. Bet does get (2) 1 unit shots of Lantus every day. I use a human meter for Bet, a FreeStyle Lite. The strange thing about all of this is that Bet's readings were what I thought were fairly high, until today. I'm glad I checked.

    I don't know how to tag others on this reply...sorry. Thanks for the link to the Lantus forum, I will see what they say. I think y'all can see that I am a bit confused about a lot of things that need to be done.
    TIA,
    Kathy Einwich

    @Bobbie And Bubba
    @Ana & Frosty (GA)
     
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  7. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    Reason for edit: adding tags
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  8. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    we usually decrease by 0.25 units rather than 0.5. Let me post you a link to the protocols, they will help you know when to skip a dose and when to decrease.

    Start Low Go Slow method (aka SLGS) - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/
    Tight Regulation (aka TR)- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/tight-regulation-protocol-tr.1581/

    I recommend reading the other stickies on the lantus forum as well. I think that will help. If you still have questions about dosing after reading those, let us know :)
     
  9. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Looks like he’s coming up which is good. Let’s see what you get before your shot tonight and decide whether to skip or reduce the dose.

    You will definitely get better at testing. Like anything else, it takes practice.

    Also, a change in food can definitely affect his sugars. Some kitties can even go off insulin after switching the food.
     
  10. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Bet's latest reading, just taken at 855pm, right before I am scheduled to give him his shot, was 102. I'm still not sure whether to give him his 9pm insulin shot. Thanks for the insight and for your time.
    Kathy
     
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  11. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would skip tonight’s dose since you’re still gathering information about his glucose trends. Tomorrow morning, if his numbers are greater than 150, I would give 0.75 units instead of 1. Will you be able to test during the day tomorrow? Would be helpful to get some mid-day tests if possible.

    Hope this helps!
     
  12. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Ana & Frosty (GA)
    Thanks for helping out here. :)

    I agree that skipping tonight is the best option given the low reading mid cycle today and his pre-shot tonight is not that much higher than this morning. Tomorrow if you can monitor during the day and his pre-shot test is above 150, I agree a dose of 0.75u would be best. If you will not be able to monitor through the cycle, I would not give more than 0.5u unless his pre-shot is above 200. Getting random BG readings between +4 and +8 hours post shot will give you some good information to start understanding how Bet is responding to the insulin.
    It may be that the food change has lowered Bet's need for insulin. He had a beautiful cycle today but without more data, it is advisable to reduce the dose slightly so you can gather some data and keep Bet safe.
     
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  13. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Here's our page on Understanding the spreadsheet.....If it still doesn't make sense to you, let us know!!
     
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  14. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Do you mean if his numbers are less than 150 rather than more, I should give him a .75 U shot? Now I'm a bit lost. I guess I still don't know what range is "normal" BG for a cat. I thought it was 80-120.

    I will be able to check Bet's glucose numbers tomorrow as frequently as I did today. I did give him tonight's 9pm regular shot, being afraid but heartened by the much higher reading of 102 pre-shot. Depending on the morning test results, I'll decide what to do then shot-wise but I have to go out and buy U100 needles and such. I need other pharma supplies anyway, like the neosporin ointment you all recommend. Tonight's glucose test got as much of my blood spilled as Bet's (slippery lancets!). I've read they don't feel pain in their ears, but Bet sure seems to. In fact, he seems to be feeling more pain from and objecting more to the insulin shots. I guess I need to pet him a lot more to calm him down before the shot.

    I'll make sure to feed during the night as the cats ask. Maybe that will help to bring Bet's numbers up. The stress of all of these tests might bring his numbers up too...he cries so when he's pinned.

    Thanks so much to you for your help and advice. I need it!
    Kathy Einwich
     
  15. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No....when you're new to this, we recommend that if you get a Pre-shot over 150, to shoot the scheduled dose (which in this case, it has been recommended that you decrease to .75)….if he's under 150, you'd want to stall, don't feed and post for help. Test again in 20-30 minutes to see if his numbers go up without the influence of food. If it does go up without food then it's a pretty good chance that the last shot is wearing off and it's OK to go ahead and shoot the scheduled dose.

    Normal BG for a cat is 50-120, but when you're new to this, you don't shoot those lower numbers. It's just not safe until you have more data and experience with how your cat responds to both insulin and food.

    It IS important for you to decide which dosing method you want to use because our advice depends on it.

    Tight Regulation gives the best chance at remission, but requires more testing. Always before every shot and at least 1 test mid-cycle on the AM cycle and at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle. More testing is even better! Dose changes can be made as often as every 3 days if they aren't getting where we want them.

    Start Low, Go Slow is better if you can't test as often. Dose changes are only made once a week and only after at least 1 curve is done (a curve is testing every 2 hours for 12 hours or every 3 hours for 18 hours)
     
  16. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Thank you for the information.

    I'm not giving Bet his shot this morning. I pre-tested at 855am CST and the glucose result was 26! This was even after I got up at 6am and fed them a full can, which was gone when I woke up.

    I've read the two protocols and will read them again. I wonder now what the heck is going on with Bet and if I will be using either of them or just stopping the insulin - or maybe taking it down to a much lower dose shot.

    @Ana & Frosty (GA)
    @Bobbie And Bubba

    Bet is acting perfectly normal, a little active, actually. I fed them again about 20 minutes ago. No shot this morning, for sure! I can't say that I understand what's going on - as I said, I did give Bet the shot last night at 9pm and fed them afterwards. I guess I'll just keep testing - several times today, at least - and see how Bet's levels go.

    If Bet's levels go up into the low-normal range and stay around that level, do you folks think I should give him his shot tonight? I know, dumb question, probably, but I have no experience in this at all. This is scary but Bet seems to have no effects from such low BG.
    TIA,
    Kathy Einwich
     
  17. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Please test Bet again now and let us know what his reading is. It looks like that 26 was half hour ago and I hope you gave him some food when you got that low reading. If not please put some honey or syrup (karo or maple) on his gums or mix a 1/2 tsp into some food. You need to get his BG up as quickly as possible.

    Kathy, some cats do not show signs of hypoglycemia and suddenly crash so you need to keep an eye on Bet to make sure his BG is coming up and staying up. You made the right decision not giving insulin this morning and whether you should give it tonight will depend on what his pre-shot number is at that time making sure to withhold food for at least 2 hours prior to taking the pre-shot test.
     
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  18. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Hey Kathy, did you get another test in yet? Whenever you get a number that low, always test it again immediately to make sure it wasn't a bad test strip.

    If you haven't all ready, please get another test in now and post. We need to get him up over 50
     
  19. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Thanks. I'm going to wait a little while yet (maybe about 1030 CST) before I test Bet again, so he can digest in peace...he's been through so much. I had no idea there could be bad strips. I'll keep that in mind if this happens again, and re-test if the number looks out of whack. I'll test every 2-3 hours throughout the day.
     
  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Kathy, anytime you get a low number like 26, retesting immediately is a good idea however it may not have been a bad strip and if that is really what Bets's BG was, it's very important to test again sooner rather than later. A low of 26 can turn bad very quickly. PLEASE test again now rahter than waiting another half hour if Bet finished eating 15 minutes or more ago.
     
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  21. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Kathy have you gotten another test?
     
  22. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Just now, about 11am CST, Bet's glucose shows as 106 per the FreeStyle Lite meter. That sounds better. No shot this morning.

    @Ana & Frosty (GA)
    @Bobbie And Bubba
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Thank you for letting us know. It seem very clear that the 1u dose is too high and needs to be reduced. I would strongly suggest you test prior to the shot time tonight and post for some advice as to whether to give insulin and if appropriate, what dose. A low BG such as that 26 this morning can make kitty a bit more sensitive to insulin. His BG could be a bit elevated later in the cycle which is a normal reaction to the low BG today but does not mean that he needs a full dose of insulin.
     
  24. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Thanks so much. Bet's next shot is due at 9pm but I will be testing not only about 3pm today but also about an hour before the scheduled shot time so I can ask what to do if it's low again. Out today to get U100 needles etc in preparation.
     
  25. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Make sure the needles you get have half unit markings so you can make small 0.25u dose adjustments. :)
     
  26. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    @Ana & Frosty (GA)
    @Bobbie And Bubba

    Well, I got back from Walgreen's with the syringes. They don't measure anything but units, but you can see where it would be half in unit level. The packaging said ".5" so I guess the clerk thought they would do .5 units. I wish I could have seen the syringes better when I bought them. They are 31 gauge. I will do my best the next time I have to shoot Bet. Oddly enough, his Lantus pen expires on November 30.

    I did Bet's glucose at 440pm CST and it was 122. I fed them right afterwards. Again, Bet hasn't had a shot since last night at 9pm. I normally shoot at 9am & pm so I need suggestions as to whether to give Bet his shot tonight. I'll guess I'll need to do at least one more test - I guess before when his shot is due at 9pm?

    Thanks to all for your help and guidance.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  27. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Hey Kathy, yes, you'll need to get a test at what would be the scheduled shot time to see if he is up over 150. And remember, to reduce the dose to .75unit.

    Without the 1/2 unit markings on the syringe you will need to eyeball the dose the best you can . Here is what .75 unit looks like. I will probably not be on line when you test at 9pm CST. If you need help put a ? mark in your title thread and say NEED DOSING ADVICE ASAP.

    upload_2018-11-26_18-28-58.png
     
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  28. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    So if Bet is still around 120 as he is now, should I shoot at all or just reduce the dose as you suggest?

    Heh, I have to go out to vote tomorrow so it's off to town to Walmart to see if they have any syringes with those markings. One hopes they have a better selection than Walgreen's.
    Thanks so much.
    Kathy Einwich
     
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  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like the syringes you have may be 1/2 ml(cc) and hold 50 units of insulin. The ones you want are 3/10ml (cc) with half unit markings. Can you take those syringes back and exchange them?

    As for the Lantus expiring on November 30th, that is not necessarily the case. Have you been storing the pen in the refrigerator? If you have then the Lantus will still be fine. If it has been left at room temperature, then while it won't lose effectiveness right on the 30th, you will not be able to use the whole pen at such small doses but can probably get another few days out it. Am I correct to assume you have been using the pen to inject Bet?

    A BG of 122 after 18+ hours is excellent and again suggests Bet's dose needs to be reduced possibly to 0.5u depending on his pre-shot BG tonight.
     
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  30. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If Bet's BG is still around 120, then yes, you should skip the dose. If you are currently using the pen to inject, you cannot do partial units an din that case, I would suggest that unless he is over 200 tonight, it would not be safe to give insulin. Please confirm whether you are using the pen to inject and post his pre-shot BG. I will check back in just under 3 hours which I believe will be close to 9pm your time.
     
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  31. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Unfortunately, when I got the Lantus pen on November 2, I was not told that it could be refrigerated and thus keep longer...oh well. The next one will go in the frig. And yes, I have been shooting right from the Lantus pen. I have seen the videos on how to draw Lantus from the pen into the syringe and will review those again.

    Thanks so much for the info on the proper syringes and possible insulin shot levels. I will try to return/exchange the syringes tomorrow. That's such good news that Bet's levels are better! Thanks so much for your time and advice. It helps a lot to be able to talk to someone about this - neither vet I went to knew much. I have a new prescription in at Walmart for a Lantus pen, courtesy of the first vet I went to, in another state.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  32. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Thanks so much. Knowing what to do makes me feel a lot easier.

    I am using a direct injection from the pen, but I saw the videos on transferring insulin from the pen to a syringe and will review them again to be sure. Tomorrow I'll go out in search of different syringes - I know what to ask for now. I'll guess it's better at this point if Bet's levels say he needs a shot, to give him at least my best guess on .5 units.

    It's 6pm CST now, so I'll be testing in about 3 hours or less. I'll post what it says. No food until after then, either. They ate just over an hour or so ago. Thanks so much for keeping an eye on us.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  33. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You can't shoot 0.5u with the pen so until you get the right syringes, you may have to skip the shot again to keep Bet safe but we'll see what Bet does between now and pre-shot.
     
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  34. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    I would bet that they won't take them back....diabetic supplies usually aren't exchangeable or refundable because they're considered "blood products".....I'd call and make sure.

    If you go to WalMart, these are the syringes you want to get
    Relion syringes.jpg
     
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  35. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Cool! Thanks for the pic and data! Since I have to pick up the new Lantus pen Rx, vote, and get the syringes, I'll do it all in one fell swoop tomorrow morning. Thanks for letting me know that they probably won't take back the syringes. I only bought 20.
     
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  36. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jan 19, 2018
    Kathy,

    It’s not too late, I would stick the pen in the fridge now and keep it there until it runs out. :)

    Here is the syringes I used for Frosty that I bought online - they have 1/2 inch markings and hold 30 units. In case you cannot find the ReliOn ones that @Chris & China suggested. https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/5739/ulticare-u100-vet-rx-half-unit-syringes-31g-3-10cc-60ct

    To summarise, we still do recommend skipping the dose if his sugaris <150. If the sugars are >150, give 0.75 units.

    I was also wondering, what is your feeding schedule for Bet? Do you feed him at the time you give him insulin, or no? Usually we recommend feeding right after checking the blood sugar, and giving a shot right after the feeding. You can feed him more meals throughout the day if you want, but no food 2 hours prior to the shot, so you can get a number that’s not affected by food.
     
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  37. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It’s always good to have extras on hand.
     
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  38. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Transferring from the pen into a syringe is the best way to go as the pen injection is cumbersome and with drawing into a syringe you can get those inbetween doses not on a unit line especially when you get the 1/2 unit markings on a u 100 syringe. I get mine from Walmart.
     
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  39. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    I read somewhere on this site that one should not feed for two hours before the test, so I do that, at least before the morning shot and also the evening. I'm glad to have that confirmed. I usually feed them right after a test, then shoot when Bet comes back to sit in my lap. Otherwise I feed them pretty much anytime they ask, be it in the middle of the night or whatever. Bet was at most 10-11 pounds before this mess began and he lost 3 lbs. His sister is very skinny too, so I'm feeding as much as they want to try to get their weight up. They both look like that overhead silhouette of the underweight cat. I'm trying to add water to Bet's FF food so he gets more fluids. He always used to drink out of a water cup beside my bed but he won't do that anymore. It's often hard to get any kind of roll in his skin for the shot so I think he's still somewhat dehydrated.

    Good idea about the Lantus pen. I'll do that.

    Because of the debacle with the syringes, I'm not giving Bet a shot tonight unless his number is over 150, as you suggest...doing the best I can. I'm learning so much from you folks, every day. Thanks.
    Kathy Einwich
     
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  40. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Kathy, I don't want to confuse you but unless Bet is over 200 tonight, do not give insulin. He definitely needs a dose reduction if you shoot at 150 and you can't do that with the pen. It's better to let him be a little high until you get the right syringes than to risk him going too low overnight.

    Feeding your kitties extra food right now is fine. Sounds like both need to gain a little weight. As long as you withhold food for at least 2 hours before pre-shot tests, feeding as needed is OK. :)
     
  41. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Nov 3, 2018
    Thanks for the advice, I will most likely hold off on giving his shot until tomorrow.
    Kathy
     
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  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Did you do a pre-shot test yet? Just curious as to what that might be given the low BGs Bet has had going without insulin for 24 hours. It is still useful information even if you plan to skip the shot tonight. :)
     
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  43. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Oh yes, I'll be testing. I'm getting ready to go downstairs and corral the culprit. I'll post the result.
     
  44. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Glucose test at 9pm CST indicated 146. No shot tonight and they are eating! Thanks to everyone for their help. It took 3 tries...1 strip no reaction, 1 error 3 (whatever that means) and finally a good result. Bet's ears still look like he's been in a fight, but I got the neosporin with pain relief today.
    Kathy
     
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  45. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    If you can, get a +3 tonight....it'll be interesting to see if his numbers come down which would indicate his pancreas is doing something!!
     
  46. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    OK, I'll torment him again. That's a really good idea and something to tell the vet about if his numbers drop. I think he will be interested - all part of our mutual learning curve. Thanks so much!
    Kathy
     
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  47. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

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    Just did the last test of the night. Bet's level was 175.
     
  48. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    That is not bad at all given over 24 hours without insulin. Those extra readings confirm the dose needs to be reduced and that skipping tonight was the right decision. :)
     
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  49. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    OK...looks like he's not done with insulin just yet

    Tomorrow morning, if he's over 150, go with the .75 dose as long as you can test (and have the syringes that allow it)
     
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  50. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Bet's level this morning at 9am was 185, before feeding. I'll be giving his shot tonight. I haven't been out to get the syringes yet but will this afternoon. I think he will be OK until tonight.
     
  51. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    All things considered, Bet is looking good. He will be fine until tonight. :)
     
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  52. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Bet's glucose test at 9pm CST tonight was 101. Because of that level, I did not give him a shot. He had eaten 3 hours earlier. I hope I made the right decision. It took three tries to get the sample! He has been feeling really good for the last few days - much more active than he's been for months. Running around like a maniac and jumping from the floor to the top of the cat tree, which I have not seen him do for a very long time. Washing himself and his fur is soft again.

    I was sold the wrong kind of syringes again in spite of having written down what Chris & China said and having given that to the pharmacist tech. The packaging even said....almost all of their verbiage. But, they were 100 unit syringes and had no half-unit markings, which I did not see until I got home. Urg. Try, try again. I think this time I'll take my laptop to show them the photo Chris & China provided, as I recently did with something else I had to buy there. At this rate I'm beginning to wonder if I should get the Lantus pen refill. I guess so...

    So....any suggestions as to what to do about Bet if these readings continue? I'll guess if they continue under 150 I should not shoot at all. I resume testing tomorrow. Thanks to all for your help.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  53. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    That's why I send the picture.....the people at WalMart are mostly idiots and they don't know their own products. If you get the exact ones I pictured, they WILL have half unit markings....no matter what they might tell you.

    You want 3/10ml, 6mm, 31 gauge insulin syringes.

    Once you have the right syringes, if he has a Pre-shot under 150, then you want to stall, don't feed and post for help. Make sure your subject line says something like "STALLING, NEED HELP" so someone notices quickly. Test again in 20-30 minutes and see if the number comes up without the influence of food.

    WOO HOO!! Isn't it wonderful??? Feeding a low carb, canned diet does great things!!
     
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  54. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    The verbiage you quote about the syringes, above, is exactly what I wrote down but what I got....geez. A picture is worth a thousand words. At least I only bought 20, again.

    I need to buy one of those cat bags to put Bet in when I test him. Now that he's feeling better he's struggling so hard - that's why it took three tries, even with him wrapped in a towel and pinned. Someone told me where to get one. I remember seeing them years ago. I dread trying to get another test tonight. Where's a laundry bag when you need one? Thanks for the tips.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  55. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Does he get a special treat that he only gets at test times? Most cats learn pretty quickly that if they put up with our nonsense of pricking their ear, they get a really good payout and don't fight it
     
  56. Ana & Frosty (GA)

    Ana & Frosty (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Kathy,

    I had the same issues with stores, I spent hours calling places and explaining what I needed. Finally I gave up and ordered online. Look back to my post with a link to syringes I used wih 1/2 markings. They are $10/box of 60.

    If his sugar is 101 he doesn’t need insulin. I have a feeling he might be going into remission since he hasn’t needed insulin for 48 hours and his sugar is essentially normal at 101.

    Keep testing every day and I would try to order the syringes online.
     
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  57. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Bet has never been fed people food, but I've tried chicken. He tries to run off with whatever of that I give him and otherwise won't touch it. He does respond well to lots of pets afterwards, so that's what I'm doing. Well, off to try his morning test. Thanks.
     
  58. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    This morning's test, at ~9am CST, was 66, so I guess no shot again. It took 4 tries this time, with one registering "LO" on the meter, which means low blood glucose, per the meter directions. I saw that reading last night too and tested again.

    Who needs an alarm clock? My cats wake me up at 830 every morning, poking me in the face with their paws, anticipating being fed. Bet really hates his test (blood everywhere from the struggles) but besides the copious petting afterwards he gets his new favorite food. Thanks all.
    Kathy Einwich
     
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  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Good decision this morning.....66 is definitely too low to give insulin but an absolutely beautiful BG.

    Given that really low BG of 26 the other day, it may be that those higher blue BGs later on the 26th and on the 27th were a bit of a bounce. I'd give Bet a break today and just test him again tonight when his shot is due. If he is again in normal range, 50 to 120, you may be able to start an OTJ (off the juice aka insulin) trial. Fingers crossed!
     
  60. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    I managed to sleep through Bet's due time tonight, but I tested at 1030pm CST and his level was 105. I skipped his shot again, and fed them. This is getting interesting. No shot since Sunday night!
     
  61. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Looks like you should keep testing Bet twice a day at or near shot time and see how he does. So far he's looking good. If he can maintain normal BG levels without insulin for a period of 14 days you can declare him in remission. If he is in remission it's important to keep him on a low carb diet and to continue to test him periodically to ensure he is staying in remission. This is so exciting! Please keep us posted! :joyful:
     
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  62. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    No idea why, but Bet's levels were 279 just before 9am CST and then when I tested a bit later they were 230. He fought my getting the blood sample this morning and it took two tries. I gave him a full 1 unit shot.

    I could tell he wasn't feeling his best last night - he didn't fight at all when I took his levels. No particular symptoms at that time except for general blah-ness. He ate well afterwards and also this morning. In fact, I fed 4 times yesterday, a full can each time (last just after 9pm), though his sister might have finished a fair amount of his as is her habit. He has an on-again/off again sneezing thing (which wasn't happening last night) that has been showing up from time to time since his initial diabetes diagnosis. The vet gave me some antibiotics for it but said it's probably a virus that was brought in on my or a visitor's shoes. I do think I remember when that happened, a couple of years ago. He started with the sneezing thing then but mostly it doesn't show.

    My cats are easily spooked because they went through Katrina with me. They run and hide when they hear rain coming. Even the slightest change in their feeding place will make them not eat, so it makes it difficult to change things with them. They are both easily stressed and freak out even when they hear something from next door.

    I'll test again this evening at the usual time and keep a close eye on Bet in the meantime. Hopefully, his levels will settle. This is so unpredictable. Thanks for the encouragement and information.
    Kathy Einwich
     
  63. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Kathy, It’s been 4 hours since you gave the shot, can you get a test?
     
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  64. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok so it appears Bet does still need some insulin support. Now that you gave him 1u you need to monitor Bet through this cycle. That 1u dose took Bet very low the other day, far too low, which is why we recommended reducing his dose to 0.75u. Please test Bet again ASAP. He is now appoachng the time in the cycle when his BG should be starting to drop more and he may drop enough to need some steering with food. Observing him is not adequate as some cats do not show signs of low BG until they are at a dangerous low. The fact that his BG had already dropped 40 points an hour after his shot suggests this may be a very active cycle.
     
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  65. Kathleen Einwich

    Kathleen Einwich Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2018
    Bet's test at approximately 235pm CST was 78. I'll keep an eye on him. The 40 point drop this morning was waiting about 15 minutes after the first test, before I gave the shot, in case there was a problem with the initial reading.

    Bet must be feeling better, he's down on the floor, attacking his sister. That hasn't happened in a while...thanks for the suggestions.
    Kathy
     
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