Great night then high

we had a couple of good days and a great night but today AMPS is 401- Re test 416. Is this what you call a bounce? Is this her body reacting because she’s not used to her levels being normal “ish” ?

 

That's what I would think, yes.

 

Bahhhaaaahahahahaaaa!! That’s great Is a bounce kind of like a body freak out to being lower than she’s used to?

 

Yes, @Kris & Teasel has a great little bullet point explanation. Hopefully she can stop by and post it for you...

 

Ah, just found it...it's post #6 here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/higher-numbers.209396/#post-2319730

 

Here's my bouncing explanation:

1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.

 

Cross posted, Djamila!

 

Ok so that makes sense but how do you know if the bounce is triggered by too high a dose? She was at 2.2 for several cycles with no bounce and no greens so I’m thinking too high a dose is not my issue here but you surely know better than me. I’m still laughing at the kitty trampoline!!

 

From my experience, and as Kris has explained, kitties stay too high for too long because of a bounce and then have a cycle where they crash. If you take a look at Ming's SS under the tab PZI, during his very first curve, his PM cycle was quite beautiful. Then the very next AM cycle, he went LOW. And then bounced to the moon. We went from 6 units to 4 units and he did okay with 4-4.8 units for a month or so (and then he had to go have another big pancreatitis and DKA episode.. but that's besides the point! )

Ming is a very bouncy cat. And what I see with Little this cycle seems like a bounce to me. She's on her way down so that's good.

I won't give any dosing advice but maybe someone will suggest a new course of action.

Edit: I thought I'd clarify my first sentence: If a dose is too high, kitty will encounter a very low number that you might have missed (maybe you just started testing or not testing at all or enough) and then bounce to really high numbers. Then as you continue to give the too high dose and the cat clears the bounce/gets over the bounce, they go low AGAIN and AGAIN encounter the low number and even maybe have a hypo episode. So too much insulin can look like not enough if you don't catch that low.

 

@Kris & Teasel @Djamila any thoughts on what Christa wrote above? Could Little be receiving too much insulin? 2.1 dose was for 2 weeks and we really had few greens. If my PMPS comes in around 180-200 do I still shootb2.2?

 

No, I don't think he is. The 2.2 u dose gave you a nice long run of blue and some lovely dark greens last night. It's not surprising to see the bounce number this AM. Just keep on keeping on ...

 

What I hoped and thought. PMPs 218. Going in!! Thank you xoxoxox

 

Sorry, Lisa! I meant to just explain and give an example of a too high dose of insulin.Definitely I don’t think Little is getting too high a dose either! Things change and sometimes they need more and sometimes they need less. The pancreas starts working suddenly and then other times needs a little more support. And I think you test enough to catch any dangerous lows. The high numbers is most likely a reaction to the greens Little had like Kris said.

 

All good. Just nervous as I have been shooting on much lower numbers lately except for this AM. All this testing is stressful on both of us especially at night and tonight I do need to sleep. Had a minor procedure today and the gave me Propofol. No wonder MJ loved it... I’m still loopy. Anyway set my alarm for 1 am as I am paranoid since I had a scary episode last week at 2.1 but it seems to have been a one off. At least I hope it was. Thanks for all the great info. Again couldn’t do this without you guys....

 

Hi Lisa-

I agree with Kris. You're doing just fine. I think the longer cycles that you're seeing now are different than what Crista experienced with her cat. Her vet was giving her some advice that is quite different than the approach we use here, and the numbers she got were a result of that. The cycles you are seeing are an increase in the duration of the insulin which is a good thing, and a sign of healing and progress. Yes, there was a bounce, and those are part of the journey sometimes, but you can already see from the tests since then that Little is recovering more quickly from the bounces now and getting a nice PS number this evening. So keep doing what you're doing. Little is making good progress and there are more healthy numbers to come.