Looking at scouts SS..... I did not dose last night or this morning because she was very nicely under 150. Should I be providing her with just a drop? Is there a specific BG level she is under to stop dosing completely? How do I know when it's time to stop insulin? (I'm going to cross posted in the main forum as well)
Hmmmm....looks like Jenna might have been right about the "drop"! Definitely get that +2 this morning. Let's see what Scout is doing on her own. Then yes, I think this evening it might be worth giving a micro-dose (either 0.25u or 0.1u (just to the first line), or a drop) since the numbers aren't quite where you want them for going off of the insulin completely. It would be better to see some more green before you start an OTJ trial. As for which of the three tiny doses to try, I think it will depend on what Scout does today on her own. Let's see if she gives you another flat blue cycle like yesterday (then try 0.1u), rises (try 0.25u), or drops (either "drop" or skip) from here. It can take some trial and error at this point in the journey to figure out just how much work her pancreas is doing on it's own, and how much help it still needs.
The +2 will take place in an hour. I'll do a curve and see where that takes us. Should I keep posting in this thread or go back to the one Jenna posted in?
I think you can stay on this thread, and just tag her to join you over here @Jenna Josie. You don't really need to do a curve today since you didn't give insulin, unless you just want to see what happens through the full non-insulin cycle. But in general curves are done to see the impact of the insulin. I'm heading to work and will be offline all day today, so I'll peek in later this evening and see how that +2 turned out.
Well good to hear about the curve..... I've got a bunch of errands to run. Lol. I'll do the +2, a +6 and a +10. Her behavior has been great too. More upbeat and playful. Thanks for all your input
I’ll try to check in on you too. I should be home by then but if not I’ll check when I do get in. That way hopefully someone will be around for it.
@Djamila @Jenna Josie are you around to look at her SS? We didn't shoot last night or this morning. She's sitting at beautiful numbers!!!! Thoughts in tonight's dose?
Sorry I'm late Loooong day at work today. I think the 0.25u was a good decision. She had a bit of a rise at +2 today, which may indicate she's not quite ready to go it alone yet. Time will tell how she does with the small dose tonight, and that data will help to know the next step. One cycle at a time right now. How many hours between shot and bedtime?
I think the majority of that rise at +2 was b cause she ate... A lot. Lol Every other test was more steady. Who's bedtime.... Mine or hers? Lol Her +2 will be in 1 hour and if it drops a lot I'm more prepared tonight.
Yes, totally agree with Djamila! (who seems to be on the same loooong work schedule as me ) I am going to try to find a SS of a cat who went OTJ/Prozinc last summer if I can so that maybe it will show what to expect -- ? @Djamila I wonder if you remember . . . it was kind of funny because the care giver had a vacation (maybe a wedding?) trip planned, and it was a race against time to see if the cat would going into the R-word in time for the trip . . .
My syringes aren't marked at the half markings so it may have been a fat .25 but again... I'm prepared.
I usually have loooong days as well. 5 work days, 50 hours a week.... 3 days are 11 hours. Today was off. So I understand loooong days. Not gonna lie... I've kept in mind the thoughts of what to do on my vacation.
Oh, hey look! I found it right away. (This site has a great search engine!) Look at the July data . . . https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ijZ71t9tVOkP18qrCZiXVB9fA/edit#gid=1526124902
I do remember that, but no chance I'm going to remember the name! You can look at my spreadsheet to see a quick remission. Go to the tab that says "Dx #1 Prozinc" I started testing before Sam started insulin because I was stubborn and didn't want to believe he was diabetic. So you can ignore the data from before 8/19 (that's the day I finally started him). I certainly won't claim that I was doing it right back then, but you can at least get a sense of how quick it can go.
Hmmmm. Just analyzing.... Was that kitty bouncing from too much that first week? The SS looks a lot like my girls SS. Less then a month before getting every thing in line.
Not bouncing - that's just where she was at when she was first diagnosed. The first week or so was insufficient insulin and a very sick pancreas. But you can see how quickly it healed with the diet change and insulin support.
Okay, so double-check with Djamila on this, but I really think it may be worth a quick trip to the pharmacy to get some U100s with half-marking may be worth it. You may be wanting to make very tiny steps down the dosing scale -- 0.2, 0.1, "drop" -- and those extra lines will be indispensable in being able to know where those doses are. I don't know if Michigan requires a prescription for syringes? (I went to undergrad in Kalamazoo, btw, right next to where you are!) Re: Tootsie . . . I don't remember if maybe there was a food change? I do remember the threads created. It was very informative . . . and very exciting! You may want to read through them. Josie had just been diagnosed, and I learned a ton from people while I was surreptitiously watching on Tootsie's progress.
Ah, great catch! Yes. The reason was that we were trying to get the PMPS numbers to be a little higher so I could shoot without him going too low. The AM cycle at that point could have handled more insulin, but the PM cycle couldn't. So it was an attempt to balance the two cycles. Of course Sam decided to just take himself OTJ before we got there. Because he's a cat. And again, I wasn't doing it exactly right at that point. I really really hated testing, so any excuse to skip a shot, I jumped at. Even when I shouldn't have. Thankfully Sam was one of those cats that was going to go OTJ no matter how badly I did my job.
I feel like scout is ready to be done with this too. She hissed at me yesterday when I picked her ear and has been fighting me today. She has sooooo much more energy and is playing with with fishing poles like a kitten .lol
The u100's do make it easier to be consistent with the micro-doses. You can do it with u40's though if you're careful. Try checking where the bottom of the plunger lines up when you're trying to draw a small dose. Sometimes it will land right at the top of a number or soemthing and you can use that to keep it consistent. Or use one of the syringes as "ruler" - draw some colored water in to what you think is 0.25u (juice, tea, food coloring, whatever), and when you draw the real dose, you can compare it with the colored-liquid syringe to make sure you're keeping it consistent. And what you're describing is exactly what Sam was doing at the end. He was pretty clear with me that he was done. And at about the same time the numbers started to show that too. The thing is though that you don't want to take them off too early, even if they are getting feisty. I'm really hoping with you that Scout is getting close though!
Sorry -- I missed this one in the flurry of posting! Her +2 this am was very good (and I'll just go ahead and confess it: I'm a little jealous! ), but I think that a fully-functioning pancreas would keep it essentially flat from the PS or even lower it. That is, the body takes on food, and the pancreas sends out the insulin to break down the glucose, so any post-meal rise would be negligible. I could be wrong about that! And in any case, 128 and 145 are more or less the same number with meter variation . . . It's very, very good, and with some luck and a tiny more insulin support, hopefully she'll get there!
If you can't, PM me. There was this weird period where my syringes kept getting stuck in The Bronx (no, really!), and then the company would send me another box, and then the original shipment would show up, and so now I have pretty much a closet shelf full of syringes. It's not good for my reputation.
It's completely ridiculous. Q: Why do you have all these syringes? A: We have a diabetic cat. Q: Yes, but why do you have six hundred syringes? A: We have a diabetic cat!!
There's a Walmart right in-between me and work. That's where i get all my supplies. I'll check tmro morning.
@Jenna Josie ... Kzoo college. Now I'm curious how on Earth you ended up there. You MUST be from the mitten
Lol . Oh no... You spelled it right. I just only knew of Westerns mascot. I googled Kzoo hornet.... Got Kzoo college.
Thanks for sharing that. I see some small dosing in the blues which is where I was hesitant to shoot. I got an AMPS of 83 this morning so I’m skipping. This is only week 3 and a few days of insulin for Phoenix! He’s going in for a fructosamine test tomorrow.
@Djamila @Jenna Josie .... Thoughts... Check out her SS..... In the green for pmps!! 97. Should I stop, drop, or roll . You think drop? Or under 100bg don't do anything?
Hmmm...I'm torn. I was going to say skip and get a +2, but then I saw the spreadsheet and that you gave a 0.5u this morning which is likely the cause of the 97. I think I'd probably go with 0.25u.
I was thinking about that as well. Just one of those things I need to see what someone else would do. If it's .25 that wouldn't result in a big drop would it?
I really hate giving you this answer, but....time will tell. Last night on 0.25, she ended up with a higher AMPS, and your cycle today didn't indicate that even 0.5u was too much. So my best guess is that she will be just fine. Hopefully green, but more of a surfing green than a diving green. However, I can't guarantee that since her pancreas might be waking up.
One thing we say around here a lot is "you hold the syringe". At the end of the day, you have to make the choice you're comfortable with. So if shooting makes you nervous, it will be okay to skip and start again in the morning. Shooting on a green can be super scary.
I did a .25 . I'm prepared this time if it's low at +2. I feel like it's better to ease her off of it and let her pancreas slowly and solidly wake up as opposed to forcing it to wake up too quickly .
@Djamila @Jasper Blue and Jay .... Scout was 88 at her PMPS!!!! I'm so proud of her!! I did a skinny .25 at amps and BG was 116 and the same at +5. So I skipped the shot tonight. .
I feel will that I'm excited but it's only been 3 weeks and it's so in line. I know other kitties struggle and struggle. I'm so thankful!!
Hi Kathy! I was just taking a peek at Scout's spreadsheet to see how the weekend had been for the two of you. She's so close! Ideally, you want to see most of her numbers between 50-80 with occasional numbers up to 120. There are cats that naturally run in the higher part of that range, but since it hasn't even been a month yet, I would keep at it a little longer and see if she can't come down a touch more before going off insulin altogether. My hunch is it won't take too much longer. If she keeps giving you these numbers, than the Drop is looking like a good dose. If she gives you a PS that makes you decide to skip the shot, be sure to grab the +2 test to see if it is lower than the PS. That can help us know if she's might be ready to try it on her own. You can also try giving her a snack at +9. Sometimes when a kitty is getting close to going off insulin, that can help get those PS numbers to be a little bit lower.
Regarding a +9 snack, scouts food is available until +10 and then I pull it. If she's eating around +9, not sure but my hubby gets up for work at +9, me +10. So he's supposed to refresh it then and if he's up and about she's probably up and about with him. Thanks for looking again.
@Jasper Blue and Jay do you pull Jasper's food 2 hours prior to shot? Here my schedule:. Shot is at 8:30a/p. I have 3 kitties so there's not 100% a feeding schedule but I put down fresh food at 5:30am, pull at 6:30, put back down at 8:30 and then shoot. My kiddo puts down fresh food at 3:30, pulls food at 6:30 and back down at 8:30 and shoot. I'm usually up until 10:30 for the +2 pm test and then top off to tide them over until 5:30am feeding. 3 days a week I work a 12 hour shift so I literally feel like her tests and shots are all I do at home. I zip home for lunch to check her +6. Luckily I live close enough. Hopefully seeing my routine helps you a bit.
Thanks! Yep, always made sure there was no food 2hrs before, and always food with shot...and then pretty much always whenever he wanted once he was on insulin lol cause i was worried about hypos and he's underweight but... Ive been trying to figure out whens the best times to feed them to take advantage of the insulin... Like, instead of a big meal with shot when there is no insulin to work with it... a small meal cause they havent eaten in many hours to tide them over to a bigger meal at around +2,+3 when the insulin is kicking in... and then however much they want around nadir at around +6 or sooner if he's lower or looking for food. And then recently started trying to make sure no food after nadir when there's no more insulin around to keep him from going back up. But then at the same time now Im wondering if he doesn't eat enough around nadir will he start to go higher if he gets too hungry before his next preshot... lol
Even tho it's wet food I still do the free feed. My bro has dogs that he feeds in the am and pm... I hated that feeling when I watched them. Lol. Poor dogs... I'd wolf my food down in 2 seconds too. So same thing with Jasper. Space out his food and he won't gobble it all up at once. Do you add water to the wet food? I do.... Seems to make the food last longer and it's not all hard. I was worried they would eat it all at once but they don't at all. I personally haven't worried about any of the food and the way it works with the insulin except for the food and shoot time. If they just graze as needed then hopefully it's just regulating.
That's why "food" is all through my spreadsheet, he is not a gobbler lol they're both grazers... especially now since his numbers have gone down he's not eating much at all at one time. (The only time he gobbles is when he went very low that first time and yesterday when he had a quick drop to 68.) I added pumpkin in this am and it seems to have done the trick slowing down the digestion and preventing the early drops he's been having. I was adding water from the beginning because when he was higher i was worried about ketones and/or dehydration but then I started thinking I don't want his belly filling up on water as he's getting lower and lower and not having that urge to eat too so much from the high numbers anymore. If he were on a higher dose, these drops would have me lowering, but since it's only .5 and he still needs to gain weight, Im not ready to lower it...so Im managing the drops with pumpkin for now, maybe upping to 7% carbs at like +1 or something if that doesn't work but based on this morning it already seems to have helped...either that or I gave a furshot? lol My original question was about the snack at +9 and I think I misunderstood lol I had just gotten into the mindset of "no food after nadir to keep the numbers from going up too much by preshot time" so I misread the +9 snack will help keep the numbers "lower" as ... something like they say if you don't eat for too long your numbers will actually go up instead of down because your body kicks in, that happens with me with hypo , so yeah I was confused lol but I get it now. lol sorry for the confusion, my brain is scattered, every time I think I got this figured out, he throws me a curveball! Anyway, don't mean to hijack the thread. Thanks for the tips!
@Djamila .... What are your thoughts on scouts SS? At pmps she seems to be green now (yaye!!). She was 87 tonight and I debated drop or skip. I get anxiety about 80s/90s before shot but isn't 50/60 a safe number still for not hypoing? What are the chances a kitty hypos on a drop? Isn't a drop more just to keep stimulating the Kitty's body into producing its own insulin?
Hi. I’ve been wondering this about Phoenix. My vet wanted to stop insulin after a very good fructosamine. He hasn’t had any for a few days.
I can't believe your vet started pheonix out at 3u. He wasn't incredibly high to begin with. Have you thought about or are you able to do more testing during the day to check nadir? I'm curious if pheonix was all dry food before diagnosis?
Yeah 3u was high. He also had neuropathy, hasn’t fully recovered from it. He was all dry food before diagnosis then switched to wet almost immediately. He hasn’t been on insulin for 2+ days, so I’ve been testing him twice a day, before his meals.
You're both in kind of a tricky place right now. Kathy- a hypo on a drop is unlikely - and even a lime green wouldn't likely be dangerous. Cats who are not on insulin can naturally run in the 40's sometimes and are quite safe. Not suggesting you aim for 40's (no!), but just saying they aren't dangerous when they occur naturally. And a drop is pretty dang close to "naturally". You do want to keep monitoring, I'm still hoping we start to see some more numbers under 80. I think if we're not seeing it in another week it might be worth trying a couple of cycles without insulin to see what happens, but at this point, Scout still isn't looking like he's ready to go it alone, so I'd stick with the insulin this week (unless his numbers start dropping). Silvia- If you want to start a thread, we can dig in to how Phoenix is doing and some ideas for next steps. We try not to hijack other people's threads though because then it gets confusing who is getting which advice, and that can be dangerous. Glad to help you if you start one for Phoenix!
Thank you. . I feel like we're -- this close . The PMPS tests have been green (all but 1) for a week. The AMPs being green is what I'm aiming for.
