Hello everyone

My cat's name is Kate. She is 10 years old and she was diagnosed on December 2014.
I am hometesting from the beginning using alphatrak meter. At first she needed 1unit of Lantus twice a day in order to regulate her BG number. The past month she needs only 1unit of Lantus per day.
I measure her BG number every time its time for a shot (every 12h). In the mornings her BG is around 85-100 so no shot for her and at night her BG numbers have risen to 150-180. Never above these numbers so i give her 1unit of Lantus and then again in the morning she doesnt need insulin. My vet suggested this method. He said that in this way i help her get into remission. I do not shot when her numbers are below 120 but because of work i can test her after 12hours again. Am i doing correct?

Thank u all in advance.

 

Hi Mary and sugarcat Kate, and welcome to FDMB

That's some very nice numbers you're seeing there.
Are you getting any tests in between the shots at all, to see how low Kate's BG is dropping in the middle of the cycle?

And what are you feeding Kate at the moment? (I'm wondering if lowering the carb content of her food might nudge her into remission...)
And how often does she eat? Is she eating during the day? Or just at the time of the shots?
Small frequent meals can stimulate the pancreas to work without overloading it with too much to do. Folks who are out in the day have found that having a timed feeder can help with this.

Eliz

 

Hi Mary and welcome to you and Kate.

Most cats on Lantus here get one dose every 12 hours (BID). That said, once-a-day (SID) can work, too. It did for my little girl, Saoirse. I was finding it extremely difficult to monitor her to keep her safe at night (due to my own health problems). When she got down to lower numbers, the data I gathered through home testing showed that she tended to run lower at night (but sometimes had higher AMPS values). I took advantage of that and the SID dosing worked really well for both of us. I stopped giving Saoirse Lantus in mid-November and she has been officially diet-controlled since the beginning of December. It sounds like you're in a similar position and Kate runs lower during the day.

How often do you feed Kate? It might be worth doing a food trial some time to see how her pancreas reacts to meals. In some cases, incoming food can stimulate pulses of insulin from the pancreas and that can help keep BG regulated throughout the day. Saoirse's BG spikes if she fasts too long, so I feed her approximately every 2 hours (timed feeders are a godsend) and that keeps her numbers better (on and off insulin). It's easy to do: take a mid-cycle BG reading, feed a little, then check 1, 2 and 3 hours after the meal to see how the food affects the BG.

 

Nice meeting you
Well with 1u every 24h her nadir is 70-80. Fortunately there hasn't been any incident of hypoglycemia!
I am feeding her DM Purina cans from the very beginning and she eats them with pleasure.
I feed her in the morning right after i have checked her BG numbers. She usually eats 3/4 of the can during the day in small meals and after her night shot i give her another 2/4 of the can. Thats the amount of food she must eat according to her weight.
I am wondering whether i should keep her in insulin in this schedule (every 24h) or whether because her numbers are below 180 i may just monitor her and see how she goes....
I live in Greece and the vets here are not well informed. Hopefully there is Internet!

 

Thats very comforting really!!cause i found it really weird that she only needs insulin once a day. Luckily she was diagnosed soon enough so i am hopeful that i will be able to regulate her...
I ll do a food trial as soon as i find the opportunity and see how she goes.
And how did you stopped giving Saoirse insulin?you were testing her prior shot and when her BG was low you didnt give her a shot?and at some point she was regulated?

 

Not quite. I continued to give her insulin for quite some time after she got to healthy numbers to allow her pancreas more time to heal, especially because she has pancreatitis. I waited until I could see very marked signs of pancreatic activity before tapering her off. I also used drop dosing (less than 0.25 IU SID) to extend her insulin treatment a bit longer than was strictly necessary. The other issue I was worried about was inappetence. Saoirse had been treated with Caninsulin (same as Vetsulin, a fairly harsh, in-out insulin - cats in the UK must be treated with it first by law). I had to stop giving her Caninsulin even though she wasn't completely regulated because it became to dangerous for her (even at microdoses it started taking her too low for part of the cycle). When the Caninsulin was stopped she became very nauseated and inappetent. It triggered a very bad pancreatitis flare. As it was, when Saoirse stopped Lantus treatment she did get quite queasy for a few weeks. Thankfully I know what meds to give her to manage pancreatitis symptoms and her nausea symptoms subsided after a little while.

Note that some members here who have gathered enough data on their cats and who can monitor very closely do give insulin twice a day even at quite low (but safe) numbers. I did not feel comfortable with that. Other people may advise you differently. I just wanted to let you know that SID dosing can work well.

It's great that you've got Kate on Lantus. It can increase the chances for newly-diagnosed cats to become diet-controlled.

 

Hi Mary and welcome

The other option I have seen suggested before is to half the dose and give every twelve hours ie 0.5 unit twice a day. I am not saying do it as I am not experienced enough just that I have seen it mentioned.

Maybe @Marje and Gracie, @Chris & China or anyone else might be able to comment.

 

Actually, shooting only 0.5 units every 12 hours will help things level out.

 

It may help level things out, but there is also the potential for an unexpected low value when monitoring might not be possible. That was a great concern for me with Saoirse. And my concerns were validated when her pancreas started really helping out in the latter stages of her Lantus treatment and she had a few very low cycles fairly close together, one of which was tricky to get her numbers raised due to the way her pancreas responds to the carbs from incoming food.

If it was Saoirse and there was a strong reason to switch to a 0.5 unit BID dose of Lantus, I would very much want to be able to monitor closely for several days in order to best as possible ensure the dose would not take her too low at times when I might not be able to monitor closely.

 

Hi Mary and welcome.

You are doing an amazing job! I didn't know any of this stuff when I came to the board. And it sounds like Kate is doing well.

I noted that you are feeding Kate Purina DM. Unfortunately, Purina DM is actually not that low carb as some commercial brands. A lot of Vets do not realize this. I use Fancy Feast Classics, it's a lot cheaper than Purina DM, too. I don't know what you can get in Greece, but here are some useful links:

European Food List: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...for-europeans-and-international-buyers.64843/

General nutrition/diet links: http://felinediabetes.com/diet.htm

Dr. Lisa's web site on basic feline nutrition and raw diets: http://catinfo.org/

Feeding a low carbohydrate, high protein diet is essential to regulating diabetes in cats. It's crucial if you want to get her into remission. The lower carbohydrates in the diet, the less insulin your cat will need, the less her pancreas will have to work. DO NOT change over Kate's diet to lower carbs without being able to monitor her blood glucose levels closely. She could become hypoglycemic if you do not lower her insulin does as you switch to lower carbohydrate food.

If you need more help finding something in Greece, @Elizabeth and Bertie might be able to help.

Hugs to you and Katie!

 

Well i may try that on a weekend when i will be able to be around her. But i ll need to find the appropriate syringe in order to be sure that the dose is correct.

Here in Greece Fancy Feast are not available!i ll have to purchase them only line...what is available are the Friskies pates and i think the Sheba ones. The truth is that i bought what ny vet suggested. I didn't know there were so many options. I do a test after meals to see how much this food affects her BG numbers.
Fingers crossed we ll be fine!!

Thank you all for ur replies!

 

Hi Mary,

Do zooplus ship to Greece? They have a wide range of diabetic-friendly food.
.

 

I was wondering that too, Aine.
But when I looked through the list of shipping destinations I couldn't see Greece on the list....

Mary, some US folks here do feed the Friskies pates, but I don't think all of them are suitable (the 'Mixed Grill' is higher in carbs, I think...)

And I wonder if the Sheba varieties are the same as we have in the UK? If that's the case then some of those are pretty low carb. (The Sheba tuna terrine is around 3.2% cals from carbs, for example).

If your cat food labels have analysis percentage figures for protein, fat, fibre, ash and moisture, then you can do a calculation to get an idea of the likely carb content.
What we're looking for is the 'percentage of calories from carbs', which, for a diabetic, should be less than 10%..
Here is a nifty online calculator that can probably do the calculation for you:http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

The Sheyderweb calculator will work out the calories from carbs per 100g of food.
If the food has close to 100 total calories per 100g, then the calories from carbs per 100g will be the same as the percentage of calories from carbs .
(So, if there are 7 calories from carbs in 100g of food, the percentage of calories will also be 7%.)
The Scheyderweb calculator may be all that you need to use. Hurrah!

However..
If there is significantly more/less than 100 total calories per 100g of food then you need to do another calculation. So you grab a calculator and do this:
Divide the calories from carbs per 100g by the total calories per 100g, and multiply by 100. That will give you the percentage of calories from carbs.

Oh, one more thing.
US foods use 'guaranteed analysis' percentages of minimum/maximum values for fat, protein etc. That means that what's written on the label may or may not be an accurate representation of what's in the tin at any given time. And in order to get the exact 'as fed' figures it's generally necessary to contact the manufacturer and ask for them. (Or sometimes the manufacturer's own websites have up to date details.)

European foods use 'typical analysis' percentages, and it's much more likely that the can contains what is written on the label.

Eliz

 

I just had a look at the zooplus.de site. Greece isn't listed there, either. However ... neither is Bulgaria and I know that Di used to get food from Zooplus for Misho. It might be worth emailing zooplus to find out if they ship to Greece. They might be able to accept an order via their customer service department, maybe?

 

Good idea, Aine.
Zooplus, if it was an option, would open up a lot of possibilities, food-wise...
.