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Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by AngelaY and Woodruff, Jan 16, 2016.

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  1. AngelaY and Woodruff

    AngelaY and Woodruff New Member

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    Jan 16, 2016
    My name is Woodruff, I am a handsome Tuxedo boy and almost 11 years young, I live in France (though my human servants (mum and Dad) and my fur siblings are all English) and I have just been diagnosed with diabetes (a week ago). I am not feeling well at all at the moment and my humans are struggling a bit to get to grips with what needs to be done, especially since I don't like the prescription dry food the vet has given me at all and just cry all the time for the food my siblings are eating. I am not yet having insulin injections as the vet wanted to see if just a diet change would be enough but I don't think its working, I'm just as thirsty as ever and my fur has now started to fall out. I am due back at the vet next week for reassessment. Fingers crossed.
     
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  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
  3. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Hello and welcome! Glad you found this site and there are so many knowledgeable people here. The RX dry food is awful for a few reasons; it is expensive, and it is higher in carbs than we like to see the sugar cats eat. Low carb wet is best under 10% carbs. Also, the dry does not provide them with any moisture and cats are notorious for not drinking enough. With the feline diabetes and the increased thirst you will want him to take in a much water as possible and with wet food, you can add some water to his food. I will link to you the European list so you can find something suitable where you live.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...for-europeans-and-international-buyers.64843/

    Please post again if he needs to go on insulin and we can further assist you. Take a deep breath. We all have been where you are. :cat:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
    Reason for edit: ETA
  4. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Welcome. Woodruff looks like my civvie Tux. Such a handsome lad he is. Keep us posted on how he is doing.
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Welcome Angela and Woodruff to FDMB! You have come to the right place for support. There are a lot of caring and experience folks here. You will be given a whole lot of information and at first, it will seem very overwhelming however in a couple of weeks, things will start falling into place. Below is general information and it will also help you start your shopping lists. Congratulations for finding this place and for seeking more information on feline diabetes.

    Some of the items listed below may not have the same name or place to purchase so holler if you have questions regarding that. There should be others on this forum that will be able to assist you. Otherwise, this information should be good for you. Diabetes can seem overwhelming at first, but soon, you will get the hang of it and so will Woodruff.

    Good Reading: This is a must read. It is an excellent 18 page informative document that covers feline health and nutrition. Don't take short cuts and read it all. www.catinfo.org Also read other postings and their spreadsheets. You will learn a lot more from others.

    Home Testing: Here, we all home test and congratulations to you for wanting to home test too. It is mandatory to understand how your kitty is reacting to the insulin and the dose. You will want to test before each shot and some additional test in between the 12 hour cycle when you can. The main reason to home test is to keep your kitty safe and to find an effective dose. Find a place in your home where you will always perform the test and give lots of hugs and treats before and after testing. There are many videos showing you how to test. Hometesting Links and TipsHere is a picture of where you test on your kitty. http://s106.photobucket.com/user/chupie_2006/media/testingear/sweetspot.jpg.html

    Here is another good link on Home Testing:http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-home-test.htm

    Meters: There are many different meters. There is a pet meter called the Alpha Trak2 and human meters. Some use the pet meter because it is what the vets use so the numbers will match up. The meter and strips are expensive though. Most folks buy AT strips from ADW. Most use human meters that can be purchased at any pharmacy. It typically reads a little lower than the pet meter but we have ways of compensating for those lower numbers. Many use Walmart's brand, Relion Micro, Relion Prime or Relion Confirm. The Micro and Confirm only needs a tiny drop of blood but the strips are a little more expensive than the Prime which needs a little bigger drop of blood. They cost around $15 and the strips are around 35 cents each. The AT strips are usually around $1 each at the vet’s office.

    Lancets: Lancets are used to poke the ear to get blood for the meters. There are many different sizes lancets (gauges). It is recommended when you are first starting out to use a 26-28 gauge because it is a larger size and will make a bigger hole, hence easier to draw blood. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up Neosporin WITH pain reliever to apply on the edge of the ears and don't forget to alternate ears. It is a bit scary at first to start poking the ear, but eventually it will become easier for both you and your kitty. Some people even draw blood from the paw pad.

    Spreadsheets: Our spreadsheet instructions are here. If you look at the signatures of the members here, you will see a link to their kitty’s spreadsheets. We keep track of all our tests. This is basically a place to collect data and help you to determine patterns, doses, etc. It also aids those that may be helping you to better understand your kitty. To further my knowledge on diabetes, I would make it a habit to read other kitty’s postings and spreadsheets. Even though they are all different and will be different than your kitty, it was still invaluable information.

    Food: There are many reasons why we are here but one is due to feeding dry cat food which is high in carbs. You will want to consider changing your food to wet, low carb food. It is recommended to feed food that is under 10% carbs and I found with Merlin that right around 4-5% worked for him. Here is a list of cat food to choose from food chartyou will note that the food with fish are lower in carbs however it is recommended that you only give fish once a week due to its mercury content. Many use Fancy Feast, 9 Lives, Friskies, Wellness, Werurva etc. This list can also be found in www.catinfo.org If you are already giving insulin and you have not transitioned to wet, low carb cat food, be sure to test while you are transitioning. This is because by changing to low carb food, it could decrease your kitty’s number by 100 points or more. One last thing, many of us add water to the wet food so your kitty is getting plenty of water to flush out the toxins and to keep them hydrated.

    Hypo Kit: Always good to be prepared for possible hypo events (low blood sugar) which means that your cat has reached dangerously low numbers. It can be fatal, hence, the importance of home testing and collecting data in a spreadsheet. In each of the Insulin forums are stickie’s labeled Hypo Links. Here is one: How to Handle a Hypo. Please print and post on your refrigerator so everyone in your household is aware of hypo symptoms. You will want to create your hypo kit that would include and not limited to; extra testing strips, honey/karo/maple syrup, high carb food, medium carb food, vet information, etc. Hopefully you will never need it but probably at some point in time, you will need to deter from going too low.

    Ketones: Diabetic cats are susceptible to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). It is best to buy testing strips that will measure (if any) ketones in the urine. One brand is Ketostix which can be found at Walmart or any pharmacy. You will want to test periodically unless you continue to get high numbers, then it is suggested to test more frequently. Ketostix typically costs around $10 for 100.

    Treats: It is always nice to have treats available for your kitty especially when testing or when they decide not to eat. I like using Pure Bites. I have found it at Petsmart and other pet stores. It is freeze dried and the only ingredient is the meat i.e. chicken, duck, etc. If your cat likes it, then I would go to the dog section where it is cheaper than the cat package. It is bigger chunks but no problem in breaking it up. Another option is to use Bonita Flakes where you can find at your local Asian market. There is a link here somewhere in this site that has a list of low carb treats.

    Injections: Some of the insulins that folks use are Lantus, Levemir, Prozinc, Humulin, Novolin Vetsulin, etc. Two hours prior to your insulin shot, you will not want your kitty to eat. The reason is because food will elevate the BG number and you do not want to shoot based on a higher number. Then you test and then feed. It is best for your kitty to eat a little before your shoot. I shoot while he is eating. Here is a link on how to give injections.http://www.felinediabetes.com/injections.htm If you are using Humulin, Novolin, Vetsulin, etc. it is best to ensure that your kitty has eaten all of their meal; say about 20-30 minutes before you shoot.

    If you have any questions, just holler.
     
  6. Jen Dan and Nightrider

    Jen Dan and Nightrider Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    There are other options for low carb foods, less expensive, too!! Check out the links posted. I'm new to this too. It's really tough, but read, read, read info posted in the other forum threads...
     
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  7. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Bienvenue, Woodruff! Enchanté de faire votre connaisance. :)

    Zooplus do a lot of high quality, low carb, wet foods. I'm tagging @Elizabeth and Bertie, one of our UK members who has a food list which should have the carb values for brands carried by Zooplus. (NB: Zooplus France may also carry Granatapet - it's a very good quality food.)

    If your faithful minions (hi Mum & Dad!) can transition you to a low carb wet food, it may help you feel better than the dry food that you don't like very much.

    Keep the faith, Woodruff. Things are going to get better, and when your humans get your insulin and sugar levels in balance you won't feel so thirsty and you'll get your lovely coat back again. :)

    À bientôt!



    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  8. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Hi Angela! :bighug:Woodruff looks to be quite the dapper gentleman. Sift through the links given here, to help him find a food he will love. Sometimes a light sprinkle of Parmesan cheese or a bit of tuna water can make all the difference in the world. And there's even recipes available, so you can make something yummy, just for him!

    Hop on over to the main forum and get settled in:coffee:. We're glad to have you with us!
     
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  9. AngelaY and Woodruff

    AngelaY and Woodruff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Wow, thanks guys. Sooo much information to take in but I'm sure we'll get there. Mum is currently ploughing through the food lists trying to find something we can buy locally or online and have delivered. Something that my siblings can eat too as they are always stealing my food (they're welcome to it!) and I'd rather have theirs but dad keeps taking it away, so we're all yowling with hunger lol (even though none of us are hungry really).
    Thank you so much for the welcomes and the support.
     
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  10. Ferndoc

    Ferndoc Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Another option with food is too plug the nutrition info on a can into a cat food carb calculator. This is how I found the food my sugar baby and his 2 brothers would all eat. I don't think it's on the list. Make sure you check each flavor. I only feed about half of the flavors of my cats preferred brands because the others are higher carbs.

    Here is one calculator I've used. It goes based on component % and is user friendly.

    http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html
     
  11. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome.
    I am going to tag another English expat who lives in France with a diabetic cat. She may be able to help you with some 'local' issues. @suki & crystal thought you might be able to help Angela and Woodruff..thanks.
     
  12. suki & crystal (GA)

    suki & crystal (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2014
    Bonjour Angela and Woodruff from another English expat living close to Bordeaux. You've already got tons of really helpful advice but if you have any queries regarding the French way of doing things, please get in touch. Check out Zooplus.fr they have a wide choice of good wet foods, including Granatapet (really important, ditch the dry) and deliver very cheaply. You will find this forum an amazing place and literally a life saver. Everyone is willing to help and there is such a wealth of experience and knowledge on tap, much more than the average vet can ever offer. Ask away, we are here to help you.

    Suki
     
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  13. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    If you decide to order from Zooplus be sure to check for trial size packs. That way you will be able to find out which foods Woodruff likes without the expense of buying in the larger quantities they sell only to find that he won't eat it. Once you know which foods go down well with Woodruff you could order the larger, cheaper quantity.


    Mogs
    ,
     
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  14. AngelaY and Woodruff

    AngelaY and Woodruff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Thanks everyone, just trying to get my head round all the information, I have to admit to being a little tearful today, it's a bit overwhelming! Plus my situation is not helped by the fact that after having a minor stroke a couple of years ago, I find processing large amounts of information taxing, sometimes even the simplest of charts/instructions are beyond me.
    (Very frustrating for someone from a scientific/computing/accounting/medical background)
    we have 5 cats, so hopefully finding a brand that appeals to all, with a bit of variety will win out! (Ha, I can dream)
    Or the resources to make our own raw food, in fact, I'd quite like that!
     
  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Angela,

    I can really relate to what you have described above. I developed PTSD after an accident a number of years ago and I have very similar cognitive difficulties: for most of the time - and especially when confronted with new stuff - the information I'm trying to take in just swims in front of my eyes, I get that awful overwhelmed feeling and I actually have to quickly move away from it or else I get really panicky. (Also when I do manage to post here my replies tend to be very wordy because I find it nigh on impossible to edit myself.) I've got a background in telecoms engineering and project management. Like you, I find these problems frustrating in the extreme (and I find it very upsetting that my once very agile brain doesn't function the way it used to. :( ) Again like yourself, I have had many a tearful moment since Saoirse was diagnosed. There were times in the early days when I thought my brain might implode.

    FWIW, because there is so much repetition of advice in the different threads here it helped me to assimilate the information I needed to help Saoirse; gradually and steadily I managed to get my head round stuff and things got much better as we went along. Fairly quickly you'll find that you get into a routine that works for you and Woodruff. This will help a lot - much less 'thinky'! :)

    I just wanted to share a little of my situation with you in the hope it might reassure you that - even with a foggy noggin - things do get easier as you go along.

    Sending you some scritches for Woodruff, a box of cyber Kleenex, and a great big comforting :bighug:.



    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
  16. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hi Angela and Woodruff,
    Yes, do see the link in my signature for foods avaialable from Zooplus.
    I see that, as Mogs thought, the French Zooplus does also sell Granatapet. And they seem to have a similar offer to the one in the UK (trial pack of 6 different flavours).
    The link to the French site is here:
    http://www.zooplus.fr/

    I sympathise, Angela. I have 5 cats (soon to be 6 if we adopt our current foster...), and it can be hard to find foods that appeal to all. They all have their favourites, so I rotate a few different brands. And I've found that a little sprinkle of freeze dried chicken treat (Cosma or Thrive) can often tempt the kitties to eat their less favourite foods....:rolleyes:
    .
     
  17. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    I understand right where your head is at now, Angela and I get Mogs' issues too. I'm limited in the movement of one hand and arm, and even general movements due to severe RSDS/CRPS, and like I mentioned..I see the world differently than most people..... even the smallest chore takes twice as long as it should. Loaded with meds myself, and I'm afraid to sleep at all lest I allow Dottie to crash and burn. So I sure hope everyone is patient with us. We're doing the best we can under the circumstances

    Yes, the repetition on the board really helps to drill information in. Everyone is so helpful here. If we had to depend on our vets for information we'd all likely drown. What you get from a vet is sketchy information at best. Mine handed out some leftover syringes from a patient who didn't make it, some urine strips and insulin, quickly recited instructions, and sent me on my way. Not even any flyers or printed information. It's not like the abundant help people get for their diabetes.

    Again, thank heaven for this forum. :bighug:
     
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm sorry to hear this, Jeanne. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    That's my world, too. And you are right - it looks very, very different to the world as I once experienced it. I live alone and I don't know what I'd do without the support I get from my carers. I hope that you have support at home.
    I go through exactly the same thing. When Saoirse was on Caninsulin it used to drop her BG like a rock. Her numbers got much lower after the food change and I was petrified to give her Caninsulin. I used to watch her like a hawk waiting for the appetite uptick when the insulin kicked in. I get a lot of problems with dissociation so I used to set my alarm clock to ring every ten minutes so that if I zoned out it would prompt me to check her clinical signs. I kept that up until the dose wore off 9-10 hours later. Things got a bit easier for a while when Saoirse started on Lantus because the drops weren't so steep but when she was getting close to remission she was running at the low end of the BG range for a non-diabetic cat on only a tiny dose of insulin - and she always runs lower at night. :nailbiting: Eventually I had to resort to only giving her Lantus during the daytime and I relied on her natural tendency to run lower at night to keep her in healing numbers. I don't know what I'd have done if that option hadn't been available and I'm grateful that it worked. Even now, second time around, I worry so much about passing out before I know she is going to stay in safe numbers.

    I have been deeply moved to read about the tenderness and devotion you show to Dottie. She is blessed to have such a loving and dedicated mom. :bighug:



    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 18, 2016
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  19. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Wow..I stare at Dottie and obsessively count the number of breaths she takes. Diabetes turns cat watching into an art form. By the time an owner has a few months under their belt, they probably know their cat's body as well as their own. Maybe even better.

    My worry comes when Dottie decides to play. She hasn't really played hard in at least a year, but suddenly she's got a fire lit under her, and wants to get rowdy. What do you do in a case like that? Give her a little bit more food, or do an ear poke and pray? Has anyone here ever had their cat play and suddenly keel over? I know when I get active, (well as active as I can get )..I suddenly go weak in the knees, and it happens fast, so if LBG hits humans super quickly, it's got to happen to cats too, right?

    Should the owner of a diabetic cat learn to keep a feeding syringe in their hand if they see their cat start to jump around? If a cat-parent intends to initiate a play session, could they feed a tiny 'sweet' snack first? (Not really sweet..but perhaps a lick of FF gravy about the size of a half teaspoon?) I wonder if a person could check BG before and after feeding a particular, measured 'dose' of hi carb foods, and get a reliable idea of how much that measured dose of food raises their own cat's BG. Is it possible? Like pre-loading a debit card?
     
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  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    And how! ;)

    Good questions about play and BG levels. I'd suggest finding out when Dottie is typically in safe numbers with home testing. Then you could initiate a play session and test afterwards (also see if her BG levels later in the cycle get lower). If you did that for a reasonable number of play sessions over a period of days (play sessions at the same time of day, keeping the activity level and duration reasonably similar) you might get some idea of how it impacts Dottie's BG levels. While you're not sure what to expect you could keep your honey or karo ready to go in the place where you're playing with Dottie.

    Blood glucose testing can tell a lot more about our kitties than just whether their insulin dose is safe. :)

    It would be very interesting to hear what results you get if you try the above, Jeanne.


    Mogs
    .
     
  21. AngelaY and Woodruff

    AngelaY and Woodruff New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Wow guys, thanks for all the info. Not been on here for a couple of days as had to focus elsewhere (long story that I won't go into). So waiting for my order from Zooplus and looking into sourcing raw products and supplements to make our own raw food (a tall order for a vegetarian! Lol) and transition our growing cat family onto it hopefully.
     
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  22. Sparkle

    Sparkle Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Hi Woodruff! I'm so happy to see another great looking tuxedo cat here. I think we are going to do just fine. We have good caretakers. I know this because they are writing about us on the internet thingee. We are SOOOOOOOOOOO special.

    Paw Five:

    Sparkle
     
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  23. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Yikes, yes, for a vegetarian to get into raw carnivore food? WHAT a good CatMom you are!:bighug: :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  24. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    I hear ya about buying meat for our fur kids. It is hard for me too as I am vegetarian too. I saw Zooplus being suggested for raw food on your thread but I couldn't bring myself to check it out. Good luck.
     
  25. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Another veggie here, but I have to say that it is amazing what you can get used to. Our cats now get a mix of canned and raw (usually ready made raw) cat food; but I very quickly became used to the sight and smell of raw food. And when I've mixed supplements into plain meat I've sometimes done that by hand because it seems easier.... :oops:
    But I have had to take the "This fridge is a meat free zone" fridge magnet off my fridge door, because to leave it there would be a lie...:smuggrin:
    .
     
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