Hello, Luci cat just diagnosed as diabetic

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Sue and Luci, Nov 5, 2017.

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  1. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    We just found out on Thursday that our 9 year old Luci cat has a blood glucose of 372 - she was drinking a lot of water - very unusual and peeing a lot! So we took her to the vet, where she freaked out! He put her in an aquarium and gave her a bit of sleepy gas and was able to take her blood; she woke very soon thereafter and came right home.

    So the blood test came back the next day and the vet told us to put her down - nothing could be done...OMG, my heart was broken!!! Our Luci who was well and happy until he said her glucose was too high was now sentenced to death! Needless to say I spent the rest of the day heartbroken and crying...and then.....

    I came to my senses and thought - why do we have pick a day to euthanize our beloved cat? Is there not treatment for diabetes? Well, the vet said this and said that - doesn't work in cats, it's very difficult, he doesn't have any feline patients who are being treated at home...about 20 dogs, but no cats...so in other words he really doesn't think she has a snowball's chance in hell of making it out alive...we were at the point where we were trying to pick the day (for her to die)...Another day of being totally upset and I decided to call him and have a conversation about giving her insulin myself at home (so I printed a couple of articles from the good ole source of truth - the internet)..and sure enough, he says, sure - I'll show you what to do...but I can tell you she (Luci) isn't going to like it one bit and will probably disappear on you on day 3...

    Will a diet change help? Can I manage the insulin and daily glucose checks? Is she going to feel better? Get better? Is there someone in my area who can help me the first couple of times?
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Omg your vet is a horrible human being!!!!! What an asshole!!!! Diabetes is NOT A DEATH SENTENCE!!! IT'S VERY manageable! A bg in the 300's actually isn't excessively high for a recently diagnosed cat!!! My cat was about 350 at diagnosis. WTF. You need a different vet STARTING TODAY. The needle for insulin is very thin and doesn't hurt them. Testing at home is no biggie either. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC.

    What is your cat currently eating?

    Yes your can can get better, and may even go into remission. My cat needed shots for 4 months, then into remission for a year, and just 10 weeks ago started needing shots again, but she's doing great!
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Just reading this has made me so livid. We have people on here with cats living with diabetes very happy and healthy for 10+ years!!! This guy seriously needs a kick in the ass for suggesting you put your cat to sleep.
     
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    CC has been diabetic since May of last year. Does she look like a cat suffering? No way! You can do this... You have come to the right place. This is a very supportive community with lots of experience. We are here for you!!

    Where do you live? 38C05EDF-99F9-4E71-8F0A-35DC925199E4.jpeg
     
  5. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Welcome and so sorry about you starting with an IDIOT vet!! :bighug::bighug:

    Feline diabetes is treatable and giving shots and doing home testing just takes a little time to get adjusted to and then it becomes routine. As Janet said you need a new vet ASAP. Some vets (unfortunately sometimes many vets) are not very familiar with FD, Many of the paetparents on here have had their kitties go into remission or become regulated. Changing to a wet low carb food such as Friskies pate or Fancy Feast pate is a good start. Home testing is the next important thing to start. As you said Luci was extremely stressed at the vets...that alone can cause glucose levels to go much higher, so finding out just how high she is in a relaxed environment at home will give you a much better idea where the numbers are,

    There is lots of valuable information on this forum and lots of experienced FD petparents to help you and Luci get on the right path.
     
  6. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    I've just tossed the dry IAMS that I was giving her - too many carbs in that stuff! She eats 1/2 can of Friskies in the a.m. (the small can) and 1/2 can of I And Love and You' in the evenings...treats are a teaspoon or two of tuna packed in water (from the pouch, not the can) so it's kinda dry but it's her favorite! She actually seems to be drinking and peeing less already! I'm kinda surprised...what the heck is going on here? She's behaving normally -playing with her feather on a string - snoozing - plays with her catnip toy...seems like normal. And we haven't even started the insulin yet!

    I saw your video! FABULOUS!!! I'm not nearly as freaked out about doing that poke for the BG testing as I was before I saw that - and I'll be watching again a few times - just to make sure I can actually absorb it all and do the poke! I'm going to Walmart tomorrow for supplies - although I did order an EverPaw Diabetes Glucose testing kit - haven't opened it yet...just arrived. Or should I send it back and buy all the things on your list? There are only 10 strips in that kit and the meter of course - so I will need to buy more soon anyway...

    I'm so happy to hear that there's hope! We're going to be wintering in Florida - so we'll be getting a new vet there. We've actually delayed our departure to try to help get Luci on the insulin and get the testing, etc. under control - and of course didn't want to leave without having a vet...but considering what this guy had to say, it's almost like not having a vet - he's very doubtful that this will work - told me the diet would make no difference whatsoever with this type of diabetes? How many types can a cat have? Is it like Type 1 and Type 2 in people? At least I've stopped crying and have started taking charge of her destiny - just like in our own lives - it seems that we have to take charge of our health and not take what the docs say - or in some cases don't say - as the final word - we have to be our own advocates and push for what we want/need. And in this case, I'm in the deep end of the pool but I'm sure not sensing that my cat is so sick that she needs to be put down - at least not yet. Her coat is luxurious and shiny; she's eating well and taking care of business on the other end appropriately (using the box, vet says she'll start peeing all over the house - why would she do that? She's never done that in all her life). I clean her box daily; sometimes twice a day if needed...so again I ask myself...WHY would I have this happy, healthy (well sorta) cat put down? I'd never forgive myself if I listened to that guy because I'd be forever wondering why I couldn't have done something to help this girl have a longer life?
     
  7. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Yes, the vet said the numbers 'can go up' when the cat is stressed, but he says he's never seen it go 'that high'...and we can get the fructosamine test to see how long her BG has been elevated - not sure why that is useful? Is it? We're supposed to go over there tomorrow afternoon for a hands-on instruction to see how to test her BG and how to give her insulin - he will put her to sleep in a tank with some kind of gas - causes a very short term sleep - she wakes up quickly afterwards and we take her home - but she'll freak the minute we get there - and up goes the blood sugar!

    So, if I wanted to take her BG at home before we go for all this stress - when do I do it? Before she eats in the morning? After she eats, if so how long after? I have a kit from Amazon for the initial testing with strips and a glucometer - so I'm ready to at least test here at home in the quiet familiar area while she's nice and calm - just need a bit of coaching on the best time of day to do it in regards to her having eaten..or not...

    Thank you so much for your kind comments - as a petparent I'm freaked out myself...dread seeing that vet again...but I don't think we'll be seeing him for long...this is all so new and I've been in shock -if that makes any sense at all - just didn't even think about contacting other vets...feel like I feel into a deep dark hole when I heard that diagnosis and it's taken me days just to climb out - one step at a time and figure out that I NEED TO DO SOME RESEARCH here and not just resign to some guys opinion and one blood test to a death sentence! The first day was wasted crying - the second day to unfortunately multiple doctors appointments for my health - and so stressed out I could hardly eat a bite...and do a bit of research every time I could get near my computer - only to my delight discover that there is treatment for diabetic cats! And it's been one step to the next leading me to this group! Yeah!
     
  8. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I’m so glad you’re here! Feline Diabetes is very treatable!!! Please come to the Main Health Forum and we can help you with diet, testing and insulin. This is an excellent place to start your research:
    http://catinfo.org/
     
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  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Good call ditching the dry food. It makes a big difference. Here's a food list.... Choose foods under 10%carb. Most of us feed fancy feast classic or Friskies pate foods. No gravy.
    http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
    Blood glucose levels are usually elevated at the vet too from stress.... And it sounds like you're cat gets very stressed there. (Maybe she's a good judge if character ).

    I'm glad you found the video helpful and it made you less nervous. The first week or two can be tricky, then it gets easier!!

    For testing equipment.... If you want to save money you can use a human meter. Most on here do. A popular choice is Walmart brand called the relion micro or confirm. Do you have a Walmart nearby?

    If so you will want to get

    1. Relion micro or confirm meter ($17) not Prime as it requires a larger blood sample.
    2. Box of 100 extra test strips $36
    3. Box of 100 28 gauge lancets $5
    4. cotton cosmetic rounds $3
    5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief $6

    I personally use the alpha track pet meter which I love, but strips are about $1 each, so it does add up. I have no experience with the Everpaw meter... I've heard mixed reviews on it.

    It's so thoughtful of you to delay your plans to care for your cat. Your love for her is obvious in your willingness to learn how to help her and your concern for her wellbeing. <3


    Once you have the insulin and learn to home test, fortunately the vet becomes less vital in the treatment. Once I started testing CC six weeks after her diagnosis, she didn't go back to the vet for a year. Do you see the handy spreadsheet that is in the signature of the folks in this board? It's how we help each other. Every month or two so I send my vet an email with a link to my spreadsheet and keep her in the loop of how CC is doing. Frankly the dosing advice you'll get on here is superior to what you'll get from vets anyway lol.

    Almost all cats are type2, but there are some cats that develop it young. Mostly it's the 10 and up crowd.


    It's so overwhelming at first. Like you I spent most of the first two days in tears then decided to stick it up and learn what I needed to and just get in with it. Within a short time it all becomes very routine.

    Some cats that are hard to regulate do wind up with potty issues. Many don't. My cat never urinated out of the box (knock on wood) but for others they find one the bg is controlled the behavior stops. Your cat is only middle aged..... She potentially has another 7-12 years ahead of her!!!! Absolutely no reason to put her down.
     
  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Fructosamine tests tell you what the average bg had been for the last 2-3 weeks. Helpful for initial diagnosis but not after that.

    Is your cat semi feral or is she calm with you but freaks at the vet?

    You can certainly try to get a bg reading at home. Take it before feeding with having not given any food for at least two hours prior to the test. Give a favorite low carb treat after so she associates the treat with a treat. You want to avoid hitting the vein and aim for the very outer edge of the ear (the sweet spot). 56AA2CA5-A6D0-49DA-A4C6-B14D24E90768.jpeg 113CE879-B54C-4B8B-A062-4002D8F0858E.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  11. Anne-Callie

    Anne-Callie New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2017
    Find a new vet asap! My cat was diagnosed in late August. My vet was great. He told me absolutely no dry food so I did that and saw results rather quickly. He started her on insulin and she is doing well. I do not test at home I'm not comfortable with that but she goes to the vet for testing and is doing very well don't give up on your kitty cat you can help her with the right guidance from the right vet. Diet changes will help I feed my Callie fancy feast classic as recommended by my vet and Friskies pate. Good luck with your kitty
     
  12. Susan&Felix

    Susan&Felix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2017
    If you can test before you take her there to learn to test, why do you need to take her there at all? I don't see what you'll really learn if she's anesthetized. You can learn the how-to from videos; what it "feels like" you have to learn from experience and it isn't difficult. These early weeks are not only about you learning but Luci learning the new routine, too. The skills you'll be developing over the next week or two may need to include what to do when she walks away!

    I don't see the benefit of allowing the vet to gratuitously anesthetize her, especially since his competence and his good will are suspect. This sleeping gas tank sounds like his answer to everything, but it isn't standard procedure.

    Once you know what kind of insulin you'll be using, you can post on the forums for guidance on when specifically to test.

    Like many kitties here, my Felix is not yet "regulated." But he has gone from deathly ill in May to good condition and happy, and continually improving. It's a process, and it sounds like you will do well at it once you get that particular vet out of the picture. You and Luci can do this! :cat:
     
  13. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Susan&Felix wrote "Once you know what kind of insulin you'll be using, you can post on the forums for guidance on when specifically to test. "
    The vet did at least give me scripts as follows: Novolin N 100 units ml/10 mls
    Give 2 units once a day 45 minutes after eating AND this one although he said I probably would not need it to pick up the syringes it says "100 count Insulin syringes" - however doesn't say what size??

    This is my Luci - PLAYING this morning with the 'bird' (feather toy at the end of a line)...she was waiting for me by the toy where we were playing last night - and here she is! Ready to go!! Does this look like a cat who's on the verge of euthanasia? HELL-NO!!! (see below photo please)
    Luci.jpg
    So I'm preparing my Walmart shopping list based on the articles I've read here last night and this morning: This is what I have so far:
    1. Relion micro or confirm meter ($17) not Prime as it requires a larger blood sample.
    2. Box of 100 extra test strips $36
    3. Box of 100 28 gauge lancets $5
    4. cotton cosmetic rounds $3
    5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief $6
    Fill Rx for Novolin
    Syringes
    You can certainly try to get a bg reading at home. Take it before feeding with having not given any food for at least two hours prior to the test. Give a favorite low carb treat after so she associates the treat with a treat.

    Does this look like everything? I cannot tell you all how appreciative I am of your encouraging words of support.
    NancyNJ said "Is your cat semi feral or is she calm with you but freaks at the vet?" = Luci was a rescue from a nursery where someone had dropped off her mama - and she was born a litter of 3 manx kittens. We had already taken one cat from this nursery (huge plant nursery in the country - where people for whatever reason think 'this looks like a good place to discard my pet' (let's don't go there - that makes me so angry...grrrrrr)...ok, back to issue at hand! Luci was an adorable Manx kitten - yes she has a stub of a tail - and her nature revealed itself right away...she started running up the drapery and up the back of bar stools...and acting crazy! Just playful and full of life!! She was a shot in the arm for us - we laughed and played with her - we'd lost our 15 year old Siamese 'Miss Puss' a few months before to breast cancer - so we needed a new friend to come in and liven up the place...and liven she did! She's brought us many hours of joy and grief - of course she likes to sweep things off the counter tops - like crystal butter dishes and a few other odds and ends (jewlery)...best not to leave anything of value on a countertop...she's a rascal! She is not a lap cat...only once or twice in her life has she deigned to lay upon our laps...she would rather lay on the glass topped coffee table and gaze upon us - or on top of a high armoire or in the top of the ceiling - high above it all. So in answer to your question Nancy, she's not feral but she's not a 'push-over' either. Has her own space and we'd better respect it...she comes to us when she wants to be petted - like usually around 3 a.m. she'll come and lay down beside me for about 15 minutes of petting - purring all the while - and then she stops and gets up and goes off to sleep somewhere else...'I've had enough attention, and I'm going to get some sleep now'. She travels in her carrier beautifully - all the way to Florida in the car - never making a sound!! We were so stunned that she was so well behaved in her carrier. She even gets into it and sits there when I bring it out in preparation for our trips! I've taken her picture there...she's ready to go!

    However, with that being said, I'm going to have to be mighty sneaky and smart when it comes to doing these pokes on her. She loves her tuna from the pouch (people food)...and will sit nicely for a very few minutes when she knows that's coming...and she will allow me to pet her briefly when I put the food down...but she's kinda jumpy..and I suspect I'll get bitten a time or two (had my DPT updated recently)...so while none of this sounds like a good ole time, I'm preparing myself mentally for a fight. It is after all - her life we're talking about here.

    I'm going to shop for another vet today - perhaps a cat clinic?? I'd really rather not take her back to the guy who saw her last week...and the vet last Spring for her dental problem - she didn't like them either - come to think of it - she hasn't liked any vet that we've taken her to yet (spaying vet, routine visit vets, UTI or dental issues vet)..this guy we went to last week was another new vet...but there are plenty around...OR I will try to do this myself at home without a hands-on demo; I've watched some YouTube videos on how to do it...so perhaps it's best to avoid another truamatic vet visit and just go it on my own - with your encouragement and some more videos I think I can do this...

    My first trial will be to get to Walmart for supplies and as soon as I get home enough time will have elapsed since breakfast that I could attempt a BG poke...and then a tuna treat...and then wait until I can try again before giving her insulin...

    I'm ready to try to save her life! And as soon as I do - we'll pack her up and we'll be off to Florida - our plans back on course. Where we will find (in the Naples/Bonita Springs area) a new vet who's familiar with treating feline diabetes and not euthanasia...
     
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  14. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Here's my precious baby - ready to go to Florida - last week as we were preparing for our trip - before we found out about the diabetes. LuciTraveler.jpg
    I had a larger carrier for her, but she seemed to like a smaller one better - more cozy? She can stand up in this one and turn around...and I tossed out all of the soft bedding I had in there because she would scrap it all to one side and wouldn't lay on it - so I placed her favorite 'cardboard' in the bottom. Couldn't keep her out of it all day - she was in there sleeping! Silly girl!! :)
     
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  15. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Hello again - is anyone familiar with this product? https://www.petwellbeing.com/products/cat-diabetes
    In my research frantic search for solutions over the past few days - I ordered this: It will arrive today or tomorrow. It says in the description:
    Blood Sugar Gold - Cat/Feline Diabetes Support
    Natural support for Diabetes in Cats
    • Supports normal serum insulin levels
    • Supports healthy cholesterol levels
    • Supports healthy triglycerides
    • Helps maintain eye and liver health


    Order Blood Sugar Gold today and help support your cats blood sugar levels.

    • 90 day money-back guarantee
    • 1 bottle = 2oz (59ml)
    • 1 bottle is a 4 month supply for most cats

    Anyone have any experience with this product? Will it help at all? I know people that want to sell things will say anything...I wonder if in my grief filled state I've made a rash decision ordering a supplement??? I'm starting to calm down now. I've looked at the EverPaw test kit and I think I'll not open it and return it - seems terribly overpriced for 10 strips and a monitor...I'm heading to Walmart to get the supplies as listed by JanetNJ - much more for my $$. So now I'm wondering if I should return this supplement as well...THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT!!!!
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Definitely not!!! she's a beauty!! I have a cat that looks just like that named Allie... even has the one white splotch on her cheek! (although she has a long tail). ;) When I get on my phone I'll show you a picture of your cat's "twin". She's a bit stand offish too... only started sleeping on the bed and being more cuddly at 6 years old. she would let me pet her on her terms but STILL doesn't let us pick her up. She was a stray we took in from the yard as were 5 of my 6.

    The syringes will be u100 syringes, 31 gauge 3/10 cc with half unit markings (the half unit markings will make it easier to make smaller doses). You can start with Novolin, but just so you know many find that it doesn't last the full 12 hours... but give it a shot and if it doesn't work well for your cat you can try ProZinc or Lantus. ALSO, this dose of 2 units is too high of a starting dose, esp. considering your cat is now on an appropriate all wet diet. Without a doubt start with only 1 unit twice a day, 12 hours apart. You don't need to wait a full 45 min after she eats. Test (with no food for 2 hours prior), feed, then shoot. You just wanna make sure she has food on board to keep her from dropping too low. Novolin usually kicks in at about 2 hours after injection, with the peek being 4-6 hours after... so it's always a good idea when you can to get a reading at 3-4 hours after injection to make sure she's not dropping too low. I know this is easier said then done with a skiddish cat.

    You can do this... although it would still be a good idea to get a different vet. this guy was a swing and a miss.

    you've got this, and we've got your back.
     
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  17. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Sounds like you are getting lots of guidance, so I will just say welcome! (And, your vet is a total idiot.)
     
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  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Lmao!
     
  19. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    My first attempt at a BG test was a complete failure. I spent about 10-15 minutes enticing Luci with her pouch of tuna; I tried with that 'pen' thing where the lancet is underneath a sort of dome thing; I played around with the trigger set and then clicking but the tip of the lancet did not appear to come out very far. On my first attempt I pressed it against Luci's prewarmed ear in the location that I selected based on JanetNJ photos above - and lo and behold there was a tiny - I mean TINY - little exclamation point of blood on the side of the lancet top! But no sign of any blood spot on her black furry ear or anywhere near where I had the device/lancet tip. Does it really only come out a fraction of a fraction of an inch? I'd have to be pressing it against my skin pretty good to make a hole...so I took the lancet out - and tried again with the cotton wipe behind it so I wouldn't poke my ear - Luci 'reacted' kinda winced but was interested in a few drops of tuna juice on her treat plate...so did tolerate me messing with her ear again - but I looked carefully - could not find another drop of any blood anywhere - I gave her a teaspoon of tuna for being a good girl and called it quits. Obviously I have no clue what I'm doing. I will try again after a while. She's 5 hours post-breakfast of 1/2 can of Fancy Feast Salmon - and has only had one teaspoon of tuna...so when can I try again?

    I've cancelled my appointment with that vet...I'd rather keep trying by myself than go to him. If all else fails I'll try to see if I can find another vet around here - but Luci doesn't react well to vets...too stressful.

    On another good note, the water consumption has gone way down - she's not lingering around the sinks waiting for us to turn on faucets. However, I am keeping a water bowl in both locations (upstairs and downstairs) and am monitoring loosely (there's a line on the bowl to where I fill it - not precise, but generally water isn't dropping much below that line!) how much water is missing from the bowls...it doesn't seem like she's drinking much - if any...

    On the second good note, the litter box only had one medium sized clump in it this morning; I monitor twice a day - last week I was hauling out clumps that were simply huge! She is on an all canned cat food diet now - otherwise nothing else has changed. Suggestions/advice appreciated as to how to get that BG sample...I've got the insulin on hand but I don't want to administer insulin until I know where her numbers are.

    Thank you!! BGsupplies.jpg
     
  20. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Glad you’re learning to test. I don’t use the lancet device, I just hold the lancet. You try milking the ear after you poke. Rub vigorously from the base of the ear toward the poke spot. You can try again as soon as you’re ready. Right now as you are learning to test and she’s not on insulin yet, timing isn’t as important. We just want to see where she is and get you where you can test as needed. So practice away!
    I also agree with Janet that 2u is too much to start. Also add that no shot if she tests under 200
     
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  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    so good that she let you do that! That's a great start if you ask me! My first few attempts were failures as well, don't give up ! Yes you really do just get an exclamation point size drop. the relion requires one of the smallest drops of any meter. I find I can be much more accurate WITHOUT the lancing device. I just put the cotton behind the ear and POKE. When I first started I found I had to do a POKE POKE double in the same spot to get a drop. It's totally fine if you go all the way through. It's definitely harder to SEE the drop on a black ear. ONE OTHER THING you can do is if there's a drop but she's getting squirmy, you can scoop the drop onto the back of your nail and test from there. You probably could have tested from the drop on the lancing device you saw.

    Whenever you try 3 times and are still not sucessful it's best to give you and the cat a break and try again in 15 min or whenever she seems calm again.
     
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  22. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    My Tuxie kitty had black ears. I found that poking from the inside of the ear made it easier to see the blood drop since the inside was slightly lighter in colour and no hair :smuggrin:
     
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  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    what size gauge lancets did you get? I can't read the box from the picture. if they are 31 they are better for people. The meter comes with 31 I think... 28 is better for cat ears.
     
  24. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Thank you for your votes of confidence! It was definitely better the second time. I enlisted the aid of my first assistant, Luci's dad came to the rescue and held her gently while I did the dirty work - and I got a DROP of blood!! A tiny little drop...I put the meter up there and it went everywhere except onto the little green area above the little black 'track' - didn't get a bit of it on that - but smeared it all around. Luci got her treat and we abandoned our efforts right there! She'd done her part...we just didn't do ours correctly... And you're right, she was a real champ letting me poke her AGAIN! No squalling or screaming - she has a hard time taking her eyes off that pouch of tuna laying nearby :) :)
    So third time, I'm hoping will be the charm. We're all going to take a break for a while and try again later. I feel so fortunate that I work from home, hubby is retired and we have a flexible day - we can do other things while she takes a nap - and we WANT this for her so bad!! He agrees and supports my decision to try to save her life right here at home! Thank god! I can see for now, it's going to be a double team effort to collect BG initially - I'm hoping to be able to do it by myself - just so it'll be easier on the household if I can do it independently...he can be the back up...:)
    I'll keep you posted as we progress through our trial and error period.
     
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  25. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    I had to buy 26 - there were no 28 guage lancets there. The pharmacist kindly offered to help me and was trying to get me to buy even smaller ones! Like 33...sheesh. I explained to her that my advisors strongly suggested a LARGER rather than smaller lancet. She was very understanding and supportive - but had no familiarity with feline diabetes or their treatment. She seemed genuinely interested and directed me to correct products - such as the lesser expensive lancets - the first box I'd selected were $13. The box she selected was $1.48. I'd gotten the wrong test strips - wrong kind to go with the Relion meter that I'd selected. I think I'm still in shock or stressed...this is all new to me...but I'm determined to get it right!!! We'll get there with your help - on this board - I've found more support in the last two days than I've gotten in the last week (from the pro's)..
    THANK YOU ALL AGAIN! Please keep those comments coming...I'll get this!
     
  26. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    oh great... 26 is even better. :) She's used to dealing with HUMAN patients.... and for them you would want 31 or 33. :) I always get the cheapest lancets too. The ones I get are $1.19 on adwdiabetes.com Doesn't get much cheaper then that. haha

    You're doing awesome, truly. :D
     
  27. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Oh I said I'd show you your cat's twin.... 3F2D8374-30AC-48D5-800B-F68C03EBA3B6.jpeg
     
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  28. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    WOW! Luci's twin! Does she have a nice disposition? Hope so...
    Luci is trying so hard today to be cooperative! I just poked her ear again x 3. She's still focused on that tuna treat! And I ended up with NO BLOOD for the meter because it came through to the cosmetic wipe, on my hand x 2...sheesh... Back to resting and a break. We'll try again later.

    Would fresh catnip interfere with the test? I'm only giving her tuna after all these tests - she really doesn't eat dinner till around 6 p.m. I'd sure like to get a reading today...
     
  29. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    You are doing so good! It was a nightmare for Mia and me the first few times we tested. It will get better.
     
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  30. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    You can totally give catnip! You can test from your hand or nail.... If it's easier to see the inside of the ear rather than the fur side you can do that too or shine a flashlight.

    Allie is sweet... She's a bit skiddish (was a stray) but she has warmed up and mellowed over the years. I am glad she's not the diabetic though.... She is not a good patient.
     
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  31. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Luci was a champ for attempt #4...we failed miserably :( - We watched some more videos and got some more tips - using a white cotton sock with 1/4 c. rice warmed up to prop up her ear was a nice one - fits nicely under her ear - she calmly allowed me to massage her ear with the sock and fingers...and my hubby did the poke! There underneath was this beautiful round blood ball!!! I picked up the reader, touched it to the blood ball and it wicked right up! Only to see F-6 - crap...double crap! What went wrong????

    So my gallant husband said let's try that thing on me!! We swapped out the lancet, cleaned his fingertip with an alcohol swab; set up a new reader strip in the reader - zap, a little blood ball - touched the reader and got a reading almost instantly - ok so he just ate and it was 137 - But what in the world went wrong with reading Luci's blood?

    I'm not sure we're going to try again today - however, Luci gets a treat every time! Loves that tuna! And then walked off to play with her 'bird' toy...as if nothing at all happened! We're worried that soon we'll have a very crusty-eared cat with all these pokes. I applied the Neosporin after each time; she's not very happy about that part...wants to get down - she's done her part - now it's time to go! I have to agree ... poor baby...

    Any ideas what happened to the reader? Did I touch the inserted part of the strip with my fingers while inserting it and contaminate it? We're set up with clean lancet and another strip - just in case we try to test one more time today. If it doesn't work out, we'll try again tomorrow. She's been going for nine years without having her blood tested...but I sure hope it doesn't take nine days to get a BG out of this girl. No insulin until after I get a reading - she seems no worse for the wear - not drinking a ton of water, acting playful and eats her tuna...

    Luci did her part...and the electronics let us all down :(
     
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  32. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    I have to say, I think I've been worried about the wrong party being able to do this! I've been worried about Luci cooperating, biting me, squirming, howling, etc. And that girl has sat through my incompetence FOUR times today...I'm the one who can't seem to get anything right. I have to give her a special kudos for working with me here. She is not a docile cat...has a mind of her own! And I'm simply astonished that she still hangs around after I've tortured her four times - I'm getting a complex here. Just have to tell myself ' AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES'...

    We WILL do this thing!
     
  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Ha ha you haven't tortured her. They have very few nerve endings on the edge of the ear. You're getting closer to success! Check the Manuel for that error code. You could have just stuck another strip in quick and tried again with the blood drop there.
     
  34. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    SUCCESS! BG of 251 - now for the next step. A small dose of insulin???? OMG it took us all day to get this far...should I feed her now - her evening meal and wait to give the insulin? At the same time? After eating? Please advise... thank you!!!
     
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  35. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    YAH for you!! [​IMG]

    Just a couple of points. First and foremost is the Novolin "NOVOLIN N" insulin. This is the regular insulin and would be the one you want to use. Please make sure it is NOT the Novolin R which is a rapid acting insulin.

    Second, since you are a "newbie" it is suggested to not shoot Novolin N unless the number is over 250. That 251 is too close for comfort. As well you have just removed dry food from the diet which can take a few days to "clear" the system. My thought would be to continue getting some more tests in through the day/evening and see how the numbers are doing, especially with the diet change. The Friskies is fine as long as it is a pate...although the Indoor Cat Friskies pate is too high in carbs. I am not familiar with "I And Love and You" food so I can't say if that is safe enough to feed.

    Another day or so of testing will give you a good idea how the readings are through the day and if you do need to start insulin you can then pick a time that will fit into your schedule. Let's see what other have to suggest, but my suggestion would be to skip for now and get some more tests in as you can.

    In the meantime here is some good reading on Novolin insulin:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/

    It will tell you the correct way to give Novolin...test, feed, wait 20-30 minutes then give the shot...and lots of other good info
     
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  36. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Tuxedo mom - thank you so much for your quick response! We're all exhausted here - including darling Luci who's passed out on the soffit from her arduous day :) She's relaxing and watching TV - not interested in eating dinner just now...so I'm relieved not to have to undertake giving her an insulin injection, although that's got to be easier because it's a bigger target - than trying to stab that tiny portion of her ear for a drop of blood. I can only hope!!!

    I have set out her evening meal of 1/2 can of 'I and Love And You' - it's all meat - no fillers like corn meal, etc. So I'm pretty sure it's safe - fairly new on the market - she's been eating it for about 6 months - I have supplemented their kibble with canned cat food for a long time - so the only thing that's missing is the kibble - and she's not complaining about that! I'm wondering if I should give her more canned food or just leave it as is - sometimes she doesn't even eat her 1/2 can portion. So I'm reluctant to put more out there - just wasting money. She gets Fancy Feast Pate' for breakfast and I and Love And You for dinner - just dropped the kibble and the Temptation treats on Friday - so it's only been a few days.

    We'll try again tomorrow to get a BG reading early in the day and then go from there. I am also SO RELIEVED that her BG is lower than it was the other day at the vet - 372. I'll take this as a good sign that I'm doing something right + plus Luci acts like she's feeling fine! Playful, relaxed and happy. Now if I can just join her in the fun and stop worrying about getting it perfect from the get-go. Now to read that article on Novolin N that you sent.

    P.S. Double checked the box - it's Novalin N :)
     
  37. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    So proud of you for not giving up and getting that test!
    That was some perseverance.

    Keep in mind that human meters run lower then pet meters. A 250 on a pet meter could easily be a 300+ on a pet meter. That being said 251 is a decent number for a diabetic cat not on insulin yet. If it were my cat I'd only give a starting dose of half of a unit rather than the usual starting dose of 1.
     
  38. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Oh my! I'm not sure what to do now...however, I'm leaning toward doing nothing tonight...and giving the BG test another try earlier in the day tomorrow - We're exhausted too. Luci doesn't seem interested in eating her dinner; and after reading the article on administering the insulin after she's eaten - she's only had a teaspoon of tuna - I think I'll wait...I don't want her BG to plummet. Thank you all so much for your comments and being available to me - on this first grueling day of testing! I sure hope that tomorrow ill go easier as far as getting that BG earlier - and starting fresh - if the number is still around 251 or higher, we'll start with 1/2 unit of Novalin N - hopefully not do more harm than good to our girl. :cat::cat::kiss::kiss:
     
  39. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    JanetNJ - Keep in mind that human meters run lower then pet meters. A 250 on a pet meter could easily be a 300+ on a pet meter. That being said 251 is a decent number for a diabetic cat not on insulin yet. - Should I try to get a Pet Meter? If so, best brand for a better reading? I know the one I bought today is not returnable - so we'll keep it for my hubby - he wants to test his BG in the morning - it won't go to waste. Thanks again!!
     
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    No need to return it... I just mentioned it because you were comparing your reading to the reading at the vet. Either kind of meter will tell you if your cat is high or low. The difference between meter types is less at lower numbers and greater at higher numbers....

    For example a 50 on a human meter is about a 70 on a pet meter. A 350 on a human meter could be as high as 450 on a pet meter. Normal on a human meter is 50-120 and on a pet meter it's 68-150.
     
  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Sounds like a plan. Are you home during the day?

    Now go have a glass of wine. Lol
     
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  42. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Ah yes! The vet with his 'death sentence'! You're right I am comparing it with his number of 372 - thinking that 251 is 'much' lower - so I should think of that number more around the mid 300 mark in order to compare to his...still lower ... but not the greatest... We will try again tomorrow morning to get a BG - and then feed her, wait and then attempt the first low dose of insulin. I'll post the BG results first. Thank you again!!
     
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  43. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    I'm home every day! My husband is retired and I work from home - lucky me and Luci! We have a very flexible schedule - we can make our schedule work around Luci! We want to be able to help her - and are so blessed that we don't have to GO ANYWHERE! Except to Florida - soon - before the snow flies here in Michigan - we want to put her in her little travel crate and pack up the car - and head off to a warmer climate - where she loves to sit out on the lanai and smell the world around her. She also likes the layout of the condo much better than our house because it's all on one floor and she runs - galloping - the length of the thing - from one end to the other! We think she feels better there - warm temps? Breezes - not being locked inside all day like here at home - because we don't have a screened in porch area for her to go 'outside' safely. So we think that'll be therapeutic for her - definitely a new vet - and hopefully happy relaxed pet parents who have learned how to take care of our little Luci and her little diabetes problem...We are so hopeful now and feel so much better about accomplishing that first blood glucose. Hoping that with some practice we'll get that under control so it's not so stressful - and move on to administering that insulin she needs.

    Thank you again for all your help today!!! Luci sends her love and regards - and I know that she thanks you for saving her from that killer vet :p - she didn't like him in the first place! She didn't have to go back again today for another terrifying ordeal in that guys office...

    Janet - that glass of wine sounds like just the ticket - too bad Luci can't have any - I think she deserves it as much as we do. :kiss::kiss::joyful::joyful::joyful:
     
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  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Give her some nip. ;)
     
  45. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    She's quite happy this morning - playful and I fed her at 5 a.m. - that darn daylight savings time change has me up way too early - and when I'm up she's up - must be time to eat :)
    After reviewing the info you sent about the meter readings - that's so confusing to me - I'm ready to buy the official pet meter to get a more accurate reading. In the meantime we'll use the human meter until the other one shows up. Can you please direct me to the correct pet products to order - the meter and strips? Thank you!
     
  46. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I like having the same readings as my vet so to me the extra cost of the Alphatrak is worth it.... But I do spend about $100 a month on test strips. Adwdiabetes.com has a good price on it and you can use a coupon code from Retailmenot.com to get 10% off most of the time.

    The Alphatrak starter kit has the meter, a few lancets and 25 strips. You'll wanna get extra strips because 25 won't last long.

    https://www.adwdiabetes.com/search.aspx?keywords=Alphatrak
     
  47. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Is the routine this morning - Test / Feed /Shoot - could you please refresh my memory on timing of these events? Getting ready to test now - hope we can get the drop we need and get moving on treatment!
    Stressing this morning!!
     
  48. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Just tested BG again and the number was 194...had to try 3 times. The longer the drop sat out the higher the number - she dropped a little ball on the floor and when I tested that with a strip it was 169 and then 178. The first reading was E-6. This machine is driving me crazy! With numbers under 200 - on the people meter do I give her insulin? I'm going to give her breakfast - she ate at 5 a.m. and is pacing around - she's hungry!
    Thanks for any advice - I'm out of my element here - not giving insulin while under 200 on the ReliOn meter...:(
     
  49. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Hello,

    I am sorry no one got back to you earlier... I use different type of insulin so cannot give you dose advise but the General approach at the beginning is not give a dose if the human meter reads below 200 - good call skipping!

    A tip: You can can get more attention to your posts if you open a new thread and put your question in the subject line. For example "11/07 Lucy pre-shot (called here AM PS or PMPS) is 195. Do I give her insulin?" - and choose the question mark as the prefix from the drop down list on the left of the subject/title line. This was people will know an answer is needed. It best to post for dosing advise on the Novolin sub-forum (click here)- people who actually use it can help better. This forum has better traffic, though.

    Great job starting the spreadsheet - an invaluable tool in assessing the dosage requirements! If you took 3 tests in a row last night which read 191-169-178 enter them all in to one cell. It will take off the colored back ground - I can tell you later how to fix the background color - but this way the advisers will understand that tests were taken one after the other and NOT 1 hour apart from one another as it appears now in your SS. Does it make sense?

    These below 200 numbers are so nice! And without insulin!!:woot::) I wish my cat has more of these... I read you r intro post - how dare your vet to suggest such a thing!?:mad: I am happy you didn't listen to that schmuck.

    If you have any questions at all please post them here as a new thread or open a new thread on the Novolin sub-forum.

    Wishing the very best to you and beautiful Lucy!
     
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  50. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    This early in the game is best to skip under 200 until you have a better understanding of how your cat reacts to insulin. :) I have a feeling your cat won't take long to be diet controlled. :)
     
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  51. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Luci and I send you much love for your kind direction/guidance today. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that indeed her diet and exercise program are going to help slim her down a tad (she's 11 pounds)...and will help get and keep that BG under control as well. It works for us humans, why not for cats?
    In the meantime I'll read up on Novolin - just in case the numbers go up and she does not respond to the high protein-low carb diet. :kiss::kiss::kiss:
     
  52. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    It is clear to me that this group has saved my cats life! I will be looking at your fund raising sites...I cannot begin to express my gratitude to you and this group for all of your efforts, wisdom and kindness. I hope to someday be able to 'pay it forward' and help save the life of someone else's beloved cat!! :kiss::kiss::kiss::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  53. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I think all of us here are paying it forward. We all started out here confused, scared, and looking for help. In a few months you will probably be helping others as well.... Offering advice and encouragement.
     
  54. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    I've just catched your post, and first of all Wellcome!!

    Second congratulations on totally ignoring that awful vet, he clearly does not know how to deal with cats in general not only with diabetes, that gas box is really not standard procedure, there are other ways to calm them just a little bit enough to get blood out or do some simple procedures that actually putting them under anestesia

    You are doing great on the testing, you've already got a lot of very good tips from very experienced people here, don't stress yourself about starting insulin, with the diet change and her numbers, you can wait a few days till you get a little bit more confortable testing, and you get more information on how she's doing just with her diet change before starting insulin.
     
  55. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Hi Sue... For that 266 you got this morning I would say try half of a unit and see where it takes you. If it's not enough then next time you can try 1 unit.
     
  56. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Just so everyone will know - we've arrived in Florida - a few days to get settled. Took Luci's BG yesterday morning 3.5 hours after eating her breakfast and her number was 187 - her number keeps sliding down - still we have not given her any insulin. She seems to be feeling well - not drinking a lot of water like before - litter box also has low number of 'balls' to scoop - so she's not peeing a lot either - so much back to normal! So now, should I just continue her all meat/grain free diet and continue to test to see if her numbers are erratic? I'm still nervous about giving her insulin. I've considered ordering the Alphatracker and strips in order to get a better reading. Since we're new to this area (we've only been staying in this area for a couple of years) - we will have to research vets to find the right one - and after that guy we saw in Michigan I'm feeling kinda gun shy about vets. This group seems to know more about feline diabetes and treatment than the vets...

    Since the Relion meter is a human meter, am I feeling too confident about her ever lower number?

    Thanks for recommendations/advice! :)
     
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  57. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    We have quite a few members in Florida. Maybe if you start a post in the Health Forum and include the city/area you’re in (in the thread title) someone can recommend a vet.
     
  58. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You're well on your way and have been given excellent advice! I have nothing too add other than your vet should win an award for Highest Level of Ignorance in Treating Feline Diabetes. o_O:banghead: You've got this! :)
     
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