Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Hi, I just stumbled across this site. I'm Smokey's parent. I have looked around here and do not find where I enter his information. He is almost 18 now. I "catnapped" him from my parents 16 months ago. His whole life has been spent with various family members. Diagnosed in 2012 with diabetes but out of control which caused me to take him in. So where do I enter his life. It has totally changed since I've had him. It has taken this long to get him healthy again but I think he is starting to be unstable again. Would appreciate any help.
     
  2. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    You can just post his information in your post, or you can add it to your signature. To do that, go to top right, click on your name and click on signature. That will add Smokey's information to any post you make.
     
  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome! Go up to the top of the page and pick your name. It'll bring up a list of possibilities. Choose Signature. Print what you want in the box - space is limited. Necessary is diagnosis date, insulin type, dosage, diet and whether you are home testing. Then choose Submit. That info will come up each time you post. M

    For us, we'd like to hear his backstory which you can do on this thread. Then the problems you are having.
     
  4. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Smokey started out with my cousins while he was in end stage cancer. When he died my Aunt took him, but because of elimination issues she took him back to where they got him. Then my other cousin took him but her mother doesn't like cats and he still had litter box issues. In 2000, my mother was told if she wanted him she had to get him now or he was being put out. So my mother and I drove 5 hrs to MA in a blizzard to get him. Took us 7 hrs to get home. For the most part he was a really good cat but still litter box issues. Mind you he is a large cat. My mother told me in 2012 he was diabetic. In 2009 my husband and moved 3 hrs away from my parents. May 2014 my mother became ill. 4 days later I went down. Not prepared for what I found. Smokey who's top weight was 23-25 lbs was one big matted fur ball right down to the skin. He lost half his weight, short of 12 lbs. He was starving. My father didn't know Smokey was diabetic. So no insulin at least for the 4 days probably longer. My mother also had dementia so who knows how long he was without. The insulin was expired. Only found one syringe was it the only that was used??? One part of carpet was soaked with urine. Cat and/or mother???? Litter box probably not washed and clean for who knows how long. I couldn't even soak it. House infested with flies. Of course it was Saturday night and unable to reach his vet. Immediately went to store got all new litter box supplies. Ripped out the carpeting. His vet squeezed me in on Monday but was only concerned his vaccinations were not up to date. No help from them. I explained I was out of state and going back home that day with Smokey. At least give me insulin. Nope. Called my vet from the road, explained the situation. He said he would see me when I got there and he would wait. When I got there he rallied the office and they had his records, did a work up and they shaved him down and got started on insulin again. They didn't charge me a penny. Had weekly visits for a month. July 2014 my father decided he couldn't handle Smokey and my mother so he became mine. Smokey whole life changed in a few hours. New home, humans, insulin, litter, food, water and other cats. His litter box issues have been corrected. He needed a larger box and more than one. Once he uses it he won't use again til scooped (which is hard when I'm working). And they are much larger. His vomiting stopped once he was on a strict feeding schedule. Started at every 2 hrs around the clock and worked our way to every 6 hrs.

    The last 2 months he's been extremely hungry and drinking so much water. His BS was 596. Went to vet. Adjusted his insulin. Worked for a very short time. He was getting 5U x2. They don't want to go higher. I can't afford the prozinc which they won't carry because of cost. So we are trying boiled chicken in place of all dry food. His canned food is proplan pate. Which the company told me the two flavors I use are less than 1% carbs . He gets .75oz of canned 2x day and 1/2 oz boiled chicken 2x day. After a few days, he was drinking less and didn't seem so hungry. His BS was steady between 225 -250 so insulin was decreased to 4.5 U. Which vet said was fine. Then Smokey started crying a lot and actually pushing his dishes around. His BS was now under 200. So insulin lowered to 3U. But then he started drinking a lot again, lethargic BS 425. Insulin increased again. The vet thinks Smokey is trying to convert into remission. But the bouncing around I feel is putting a lot of stress on him. I hate sticking his ear everyday. I can only get the same ear to bleed for me. Any suggestions??? Sorry for long post. Ps. His next visit is on the 1st. Vet uses same meter and our results match exactly.
     
  5. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Wow! You and Smokey have had a real journey. Bless you for taking him on and normalizing his life.

    A couple things. Here is a food chart compiled by a vet (much more accurate than the way the manufacturer figures it)

    http://catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf. It is alphabetical so ProPlan is quite a way down the list. It looks like a couple flavors are in good carb ranges (we like to stay under 8%) But most are pretty high carb.

    Vetsulin can be hard to regulate with. It tends to be harsh and has an early onset. To use it effectively, you have to get enough data to see exactly how it works with Smokey. When does he start to drop? (Often early in the cycle 3-5 hours after the shot). How soon does he start up? (Often with Vetsulin, they start back up early - maybe 5/7 hours after the shot). When does the insulin wear off? (Often Vetsulin does not last 12 hours like ProZinc, Lantus and Levwmir)

    Having said that, sometimes it is milder; sometimes it lasts longer. If you can figure out how it works in Smokey, you may be able to use that info to get him into better ranges.

    It is fantastic you are testing at home. It is so important to stay on top of the numbers with Vetsulin. Do you always give Smokey a favorite treat after the poke? That I s the secret to this thing. Also, Neosporin with pain relief can make the process easier on both of you early on. Just a tiny smear.
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  6. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    You and Smokey have been through a lot! It sounds like you're on the right track, changing his food to low carb and home testing. Some find it easier to get blood if you warm the ear first. Many use a sock with rice, warmed in the microwave. Just make sure not to get it too hot. And as Sue mentioned, low carb treats after testing helps a lot too. My cat now comes as soon as I sit in our 'testing chair' and shake the strips container. It's important to check Smokeys BS before each injection and try to get some mid cycle tests too, to determine how low he goes between. I don't know much about Vetsulin, but if you want to try ProZinc, you can get it at Valley Vet Supply for $95/vial which lasts awhile depending on how much you use.
     
  7. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Welcome Woodsywife and Smokey. You are a Saint to take on Smokey and restore his health. You are in good hands here with all the experienced people with diabetic cats. What is your name, by the way? See you around the forum.
     
  8. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Oh thank you for the food chart. The two flavors I use isn't on it. But I do see another brand I will try. One of my cats will only eat Purina one beef canned. Since its low I will try the other 2 flavors. None of my 3 cats can have shredded, flaked or gravy. They all throw it up.

    Prozinc costed $200/month. He use to be on it. But my vet said he won't offer it to customers. I will look into the site that's mentioned. I imagine I will need a script. Vetsulin is $52/month. So a little more I could do. And maybe the dose can get even lower.
     
  9. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I'm Paula. Didn't know if real name should be used or not.
     
  10. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Paula! I'm Bobbie. Again, I take my hat off to you for all that you are doing for Smokey. The best of luck to him and I will be following his progress. :bighug:
     
  11. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Paula, Wow $200/month!? A vial of ProZinc should last several months depending on how many units/day you give. My cat is on a high dose and the vial lasts quite awhile. Bobbie is right, you are a saint how you've helped Smokey. He is a lucky guy! I read your post in the caregivers burnout thread. On top of everything else you have an injured back! I don't know if it'll help, but when I hurt my back a few years ago and couldn't bend or get down to feed and clean boxes, I moved everything up high. I even had the litter box on the dinning room table-not for everyone I know-but it helped me. Good luck with Smokey, and please keep us posted
     
  12. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Sharon, Smokey doesn't climb up on any furniture. I'm lucky there. We even tried a ramp and steps (which he can't do at all anymore). And he tends to not go in box far enough so some always ends up on floor. Puppy pads are all around the box for that. A vial of insulin at 4U - 5U twice a day lasts me 6-7 weeks. The cost is still a lot since my hours were cut, paychecks bouncing, husband is getting ready to retire. Of course I rather see Smokey less insulin dependent but don't like this fluctuations. It can't be good for the other body systems. I guess the retired nurse in me is on overdrive.
     
  13. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    He is really good at injection time. He lays right down when I put my hand on his back. He is getting better with the ear sticks as well as me with them. But no dry kibble at all for any reason. When I can get him more regulated then he can have 1 after an ear stick but only then. My vet doesn't mind if his bg is in the 250 range (I don't necessarily agree) that way they said you don't have to worry about hypo if I need to be away or late with a feeding.
     
  14. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    By the way. Smokey is my avatar. The pic was taken in May. My father wanted a pic for my mother when she passed away. He didn't want her to be alone on her journey. She missed him so. My father always asks "how's my cat?. Smokey buddied up to my kitten immediately. Smokey was always an only pet. He plays and grooms the kitten and kitten is relentless with him and yet he doesn't seem to mind.
     
  15. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Smokey is a beautiful cat! It's good he's made friends with your kitten. Wish I knew more to help you. I'm new here and having problems regulating my cat, Colin, too. Maybe if you post your thread in the Vetsulin forum, someone there that knows more on how it works can give you better advice.
     
  16. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Unfortunately the Vetsulin forum isn't active. It would be best if you'd post on Health
     
  17. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Well here what happened. Smokey had his regular feeding and 4.5U @ 7 pm. He has been behind the chair since. At 11 pm he didn't come for the last feeding of the day. Even popping the can, or the other cats tags clicking on the bowls didn't bring him out. Had my husband get him out so I could check him. BS 32. Once he was out he ate the canned food left by other cat. And my husband gave him some chicken and 3 dry kibbles he ate with gusto. I will watch him for a few more hours since I'm a late owl and have off tomorrow. I will check him again in the morning. I thank all of you, as I did not monitor regularly only when he wasn't himself. And reading here has alerted me. And I will start this spreadsheet once I figure it out. I just have to start up my pc. I normally use my kindle fire and it won't let me open the ss.
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You need to check him again within 15 minutes. Put some honey on his gums. He is dangerously low.
     
  19. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Is there something other than honey, I don't have any in the house. How about strawberry jam or plain sugar?
     
  20. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Karo syrup? If not try ice cream. Test him again. If he drops he needs a vet
     
  21. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Did you get a test? Is he acting strange? Hiding ? Just realized he is 32 on AlphaTrak. If he hasn't moved up, you need to take him to the ER
     
  22. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    BS is 35 now. Gave him a few more kibbles. He is not hiding now. He is out sitting in front of me wide awake. I only have chocolate ice cream which cats can't have. Maple syrup?
     
  23. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Maple syrup is good. Take a teaspoonful and rub it on his gums. I really think you should go to the ER. We consider 70 and below on the AlphaTrak to be hypo. It's good that he has no symptoms, but some cats are asymptomatic.
     
  24. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    He likes maple syrup. Licked it right off the spoon. He is hungry and he finally ate his normal feeding just now. This is what been bothering me. These drastic changes in his readings. If I start a curve tomorrow how often should I do a reading? I'll do one at 7am but then how often after that?
     
  25. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    First you need to get his numbers up tonight. Did you get a test? You can't relax until you get 3 tests above 70. The honey will only last awhile. He can still drop.

    I am really worried that he will continue to drop or stay in these low ranges for too long. Neither scenario is safe.
     
  26. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Tomorrow he is likely to be high after the low and the high carb. (When they drop below what their body senses as a safe level, it releases extra glucose which makes the number bounce up.

    Regardless, you need to reduce the dose tomorrow - maybe down to 3.5 units. You don't want a dose that will take him down this low.

    Then get a test at +2/4/6/8/10. That should give you a good picture of when he drops, how much, for how long and when the insulin starts up and is gone.

    BUT for now, retest. If he hasn't risen a lot, can you take him to the ER?
     
  27. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I can't stay on the forum. I hope either he has jumped up to the 70s and stays there or you have taken him to the ER. So glad you caught that low number. He does seem seriously overdosed.
     
  28. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    BS 129 @ 1:20am. Thanks for you help and support.
     
  29. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Wow Paula, you had quite a ride last night. See how wonderful the people on this forum are? Glad we both found them!!
     
  30. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Paula, I can do up the spreadsheet for you and send it to you. If you can access Google Sheets on your kindle, once it is created, you may be able to use it that way.
     
  31. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    All I will need is your email address, which you can send to me in a private messages. To start a conversation, click on my profile picture to the left, then select start a conversation.
     
  32. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Paula, how is Smokey this AM? Did you get a BS test before you fed and gave him his shot?
     
  33. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    So glad to see that he went up, Paula! And so wonderful you were testing and caught it.

    He may be extra sensitive to insulin for awhile. Sometimes that happens if they drop really low. I'd be very careful with the dose and monitor carefully. Your curve today will help you see how the Vetsulin is working - when he drops is very valuable info for you to have.

    Just for reference - we consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower 200s at pre shot and in double digits at nadir, but above 50 - which is approaching hypo territory. These numbers are based on human meters, which most of us use. (AlphaTrak meters are expensive and the strips are prohibitively expensive for most people). For Alpha Trak, while we have no exact correlations, you can add 30 points to those numbers to get a general reference point.
     
  34. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Sharon, at 7am his BS was 431. And I only gave him 3.5U Vetsulin and his regular food at 9am his BS was 380. Will do another at 11am. And will do every 2 hrs until his 7pm shot.

    He is back to himself. Underfoot and begging for food. Lol.
     
    Bobbie And Bubba likes this.
  35. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I would have not caught it last night if it wasn't for this site. I stumbled across it while searching for hypoglycemia symptoms. I had spent most of the evening reading a lot of information here. When he didn't come out for his food is when I said to hubby pull him out (behind chair in corner) and let me test him. During the day he has no problem. But during the night he does and in the mornings his BS will be over 400 and as high as 595 . I need to get this night time stable. I'm thinking his food schedule and/amounts needs to change somehow but this is where I'm not getting help from the vet.
     
  36. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
  37. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Well, your info today will give you a better picture. Sometimes if a dose is too high in the am, then the pm pre shot is too low. Or sometimes they drop lower overnight than during the day (could be different food intake or activity level) and bounce up to a higher pre shot in the am.

    How long after the shot was the 32 last night?
     
  38. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    4 hrs.
     
  39. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Wow! That is a fast, harsh drop. What was his pre shot number last night?
     
  40. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
  41. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I didn't test before shot. I normally don't. Only tested when he wasn't himself. I guess that will change now. Something I learned here.
     
  42. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yep. You always want to know whether the amount you are planning to give is safe. For new diabetics, we suggest not shooting under 200 (would be approximately in the 230 range for you)

    Here is a primer a member wrote for Vetsulin when it was used more widely on the forum. It is 6 years old but appears to be updated.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-caninsulin-user-guide.302/

    Be aware you will not be getting much advice from current Vetsulin users. They are some but they tend to be new. Some people have used Vetsulin in the past before switching. I hope they find you. I have not used Vetsulin but it's action is similar to PZI which I am very familiar with, so I can try to help also.
     
  43. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I vet said the two insulin were very close when we switched to Vetsulin. I just can't afford prozinc @ $200/month. But I will check into the site someone mentioned.
     
  44. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    They are certainly dosed the same. ProZinc tends to have a slower drop, be less harsh and last longer. But we have certainly had cats who do fine on Vetsulin and do go into remission. If I were you, I'd give it a chance. Once you see how it works in Smokey, there may be ways to use the food to soften the curve. The most important difference is the length of cycle. If Vetsulin only lasts 8 hours and is gone, leaving the cat in high ranges for 4 hours, you can only combat that by dosing every 8 hours. Complicated and not feasible for most cat parents. But in some cats, it lasts longer. We have an annoying but absolutely true saying here : Every Cat is Different
     
  45. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Paula, here are two Vetsulin users posting regularly on Health. Though every cat is different, you may benefit from looking at their posts and spreadsheets: @Squalliesmom and @CarolandTigger I'd suggest you start a new thread on Health and include Vetsulin in the Subject line.

    I can set up a spreadsheet for you in a few minutes. If you want me to, click on my picture and Start a Private Conversation. (I'll need an email address and you don't want to post that on the forum)
     
  46. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    The 11am (+4) BS is 218. On the days I work (Mon, tue, fri) I put his chicken down at 10am before I leave. When I get home @4:30-5 I give him a little bit of chicken. When I'm off he gets the chicken at 1pm and then nothing until his 7pm shot and dinner. Then anywhere between 11pm-1am depending if I'm off or working is chicken again.
     
  47. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    So today, 431 at preshot. Gave 3.5 U. At +2 380 and +4 218. Not a bad curve so far - not a harsh drop. But 50% already at +4. We use 50% as a gauge to see how a dose is working. A 50% nadir is reasonable. Your next test will tell you whether he has reached his low point or whether he is continuing to drop.

    AlphaTrak Numbers
    Amps 431. 3.5
    +2 380
    +4 218

    If he drops into double digits at +6 (but is still above that 70 range) I'd give him a snack of his regular food. If below 70, post for help. This could be a higher flatter cycle than normal because of the probable bounce from the low last night or because we lowered the dose to be safe. Or it could prove to be a longer cycle that continues to drop. Interesting to find out.

    You do need a hypo kit - Karo syrup, some higher carb food like Fancy Feast gravy flavored (you can use just a teaspoon of the gravy to bring them up if they drop low.). Maybe get both today?
     
  48. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I don't have a car today. The food with gravy he vomits. Will have to use the maple syrup. I wouldn't know what any of this meant and still don't understand some of it. But I'm learning. I'm not the type who does just what the vet says although I did in the beginning. But I realized Smokey wasn't stable anymore and to keep upping his insulin wasn't right. I need to take matters into my own hands. But I didn't know it was this complicated.
     
  49. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    It is an incredibly steep learning curve in the beginning. But the more data you collect and the more you see what each dose does, the more confident you feel. It's a matter of learning what his patterns are - if you give this amount of insulin, he drops this much.

    The protocol we use is the same for all insulins: a wet low carb diet (you are going to work on that, I think?) a mild long lasting insulin(jury is still out on that but you may get lucky and he may do well on Vetsulin) and home testing. The testing is the most important part. You can keep him safe. It is so scary to realize he is acting off and then try to guess what is wrong. But, like last night, you immediately found out he was too low and compensated. Another non testing owner could have just wondered and worried and her cat could have died.

    So now, it's a matter of fine tuning the dose. Home testing will do that. We'll help.
     
  50. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    At 1pm (+6) BS is 254. So now my question is what does this mean? Or will the next reading at 3pm tell more? He wants to eat and this is when I would normally give boiled chicken since I'm off today.
     
  51. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    It means he has started to rise. So today his nadir (or lowest point) was +4/5. We can't be sure - he could have dropped more after the +4 reading. We'd like to see a nadir in the +5-7 range, because the insulin would be bringing down the numbers for a longer time. Best scenario is that he surfs for awhile - staying in the 250 range and not moving up rapidly. The next thing we're looking for is how fast he goes up - does he surf? Or does he start climbing now? An ideal curve with Vetsulin would be smile shaped, with the pre shot number in the same range both am and pm and 12 hours apart.

    Is any of this making sense?
     
  52. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Sort of. I would like to see him about the same during the 12 hrs doses.

    Normally I feed him at 1 pm. But didn't since it raised. Do I feed him if the 3pm is higher? I'm thinking no because his bs is ok now but he seems to be hungry or it could be because he is use to being fed.
     
  53. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    At some point, food may be a way to work with his numbers. For now, not so important. The only time you want to withhold food is the 2 hours before each pre shot test. You want that test to be true, not influenced by food, because you are basing the dose on it. Food can make levels go up; you can use that when he is too low or dropping too fast.
     
  54. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    getting ready to do his 3pm
     
  55. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Ok 3pm bs is 241 next one at 5pm. He is being so good. His poor little ear.
     
  56. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    So he is surfing long - very encouraging! It would be discouraging if the insulin had run out and he had jumped up to the 300s+. So, the insulin is still working. Great!
     
  57. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Sharon, I don't know if anyone mentioned to you that you can put Neosporin ointment with pain relief on his ears after every prink. It will make sure he doesn't get infected and soothes it for him. :bighug:
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  58. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Up until the last week or so, Squallie has seen good duration from the Vetsulin. It does definitely cause sharp, hard drops, tho, and seeing the lowest numbers for the day at around +4/5 seems to be fairly consistant, at least for us.
     
  59. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Lucy, you were mentioned as one I should talk with regarding Vetsulin. I see from the ss that Squallie is running in the 300's at least today. Is that a normal range? I was trying to stay under that, am I being to realistic? Is 300's okay? My vet wants it to be no more than 300. I see you also feed him a lot more than I give Smokey. I don't want him to gain anymore weight but not lose to much either.
     
  60. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Okay +10 hrs his bs is 361.
     
  61. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    300 is on the high side, but don't panic yet. I don't think AMPS and PMPS numbers in the 300s are unusual this early in the game, as long as you're getting reasonable, lower numbers throughout the day. If you look at Squallie's spreadsheet #s from about 8 days ago and before, you'll see that he was doing reasonably well on the Vetsulin. I am mystified by the sudden change in patterns starting around the first of the month. I use a Relion monitor to test him, so our numbers won't really be compatible, but you can see, just looking at the patterns, the where Vetsulin is taking him. I am trying to get Squallie back down to a lower BG on a more regular basis, again. If you can get a spreadsheet started it would be very helpful. You'll be able to see patterns in Smokey's #s that you probably wouldn't see, otherwise, and it's easier for us, too, to offer advice when we can see it. I will pass on some of the best advice offered to me: ultimately, insulin is a hormone, not a drug, and it is a s-l-o-w process to regulate our kitties' BG with it. So, you're definitely gonna need a pair of Patience Pants, I don't know how to order them up but lots of others here, do, lol.

    As far as weight goes, Squallie is a little on the chunky side, but not bad. His weight tends to fluctuate a little, but he stays between 13 and 14 lbs, which is just about right for him. He is a convert (unwillingly, lol) from dry food, so I haven't completely established yet what the best amounts of canned food for him are, it's kind of a work in progress. I just ordered a set of baby scales to weigh him, and that should help. Ultimately, every cat is different (ECID, you'll hear that a lot!) so if what you're feeding Smokey maintains his weight at a good place, go with that, or adjust a little, in small increments, if you think he needs more, or less. Just try not to feed him for about two hours before his AM and PM tests. It's usually best to test, feed, wait a little for the food to get into his system-30 to 60 minutes is what they recommend- and then dose.

    Let me know when you get your spreadsheet up and running, and I will look it over. I am still fairly new here myself, but I'm pretty familiar now with Vetsulin, so if I can help further, I'll be glad to!
     
  62. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Check out BCP PZI. Similar to ProZinc and less expensive, lasts longer than Vetsulin. Your vet faxes in an Rx; you pay the company.
     
  63. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Hi Paula and Smokey.
    I'm so so glad you found FDMB.
    Bless you a thousand times over for putting a value on Smokey's life and taking on his care. You're my kind of folks.
    Smokey looks just like my childhood kitty, Krissy. She was sweet in demeanor too, just like Smokey. Miss her.
    I'm new here myself, just wanted to offer some support and encouragement. You have absolutely the BEST people on this planet currently looking after you here.
    Let them help and guide you. You can take a breath here!

    I hope your back feels better! I can relate to that too.
    Give Smokey a hug for me.
    All the best
    Brenda
     
  64. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    @Marje and Gracie , can you help? Apparently I have issues trying to help with the spreadsheet.
     
  65. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    7 pm bs is 369. It's time to dose him and feed him. Should I stick with the 3.5U? And do I continue to test him til I go to bed?
     
  66. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Can we get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests? It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

    Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

    The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

    Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

    From left to right, you enter
    the Date in the first column
    the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
    the Units given (turquoise column)

    Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
    If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
    and so on.

    Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
    To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

    There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
    If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

    We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

    The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

    It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
     
  67. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Been trying but tablet won't open it. Can't find Google drive. It says it's installed but can't find it. Tried desktop but browser isn't supported and can't find the new and pull oily ad buttons.
     
  68. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I downloaded to my desktop the sheet someone sent me. Saved as..... then it's wants save as type????? And encoding option??????

    It also has a button on the sheet "sign in as me to edit" ??????? I click but it brings me to Google login and I'm already logged in. Found the new and file upload but once I click that and it asks to try 3rd party, eml viewer, cloud reader, or eml mht viewer??????
     
  69. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I know nothing about Google, Google drive. Can't find Google sheets. I'm logged into Google but keeps telling me to use another account. It just doesn't work. Something isn't working or some step is missing.
     
  70. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    What was his dose when he had his hypo episode?
     
  71. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I think sticking with the 3.5 is a good idea. If you can, a +2 is always a good test. It can tell you whether the cycle is going down fast or not. Then, if you can +5 as that was close to his nadir today.

    Not a bad cycle. Lower pmps than morning and the Vetsulin lasted longer than it often does.
     
  72. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Okay, think I was to get the spreadsheet don't know how but just clicking around. I never found the US Spreadsheet Template but found some kind of alpha trac spreadsheet. I think I have to reformat some but want to see if the link comes through
     
  73. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    It worked. Now to find where it was saved and see if i can get the numbers in.
     
  74. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, it comes up. And AlphaTrak should work because that is your meter. Save the original one to your Favorites. It's the one you add data to. The one in your signature is a Read Only document. You should be able to retrieve the original through Goggle docs and your documents?

    So, on the first line, put the date Of the first test you want to record. Amps is a number you got before the shot and food in the am. u is the number of units given. +2 is the test 2 hours after the shot, +6 is the test six hours later. Pmps is the evening test.
     
  75. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Ok I made progress. I can't get rid of the green in comments column I guess because it's protected. I will fill it out Wednesday. I've had enough tonight. Wish it was on my tablet. I rarely use desktop.
     
  76. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    4.5
     
  77. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Then I would definitely stick with the lower dose for the time being. :)
     
  78. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I'll be doing a +3 in 20 minutes before I go to bed. Fingers crossed he is in the safe zone. Tomorrow I have to work so it will just be his amps. Hubby is home to keep an eye on him. He can't test though.
     
  79. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    10:45 pm (+3) bs is 160 the lowest of the day. 3.5u given at 7:45pm. 30 minutes after feeding (canned .75 oz) This time was a little off his normal schedule. Normally gets insulin and fed same time @ 7 pm. You will have to look at posts above since still trying to get ss to work. But at least I got it linked so getting there.

    Thank you all, I think I'm understanding some of this. This community is great and information is plentiful. Haven't got through it all yet but I'm more informed for his vet visit on the 1st.

    I don't know what might have happened last night if I hadn't stumbled across this site. Smokey is still with me though even if his ear is battered. Again thank you all.
     
  80. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Hope Smokey has good numbers tonight and tomorrow! You're doing a great job. Keep up the good work, it does get easier! Please check in tomorrow and let us know how things are going! :):):)
     
  81. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I will. I will his amps before I leave.
     
  82. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Google Drive may be accessed online. You save files there at that site on the web, not on a PC, nor tablet, nor phone. There is the option to download, ie save on your local device (a computer, tablet, or smart phone) but that isn't mandatory.
    There is an application for Google Drive so you can save files to your local device and work on them without being connected to the internet, and again, it is an option, not a requirement.
    I find that application doesn't work very well on my phone and prefer to use my browser to view, create, edit, or delete files. I go to the Google site using my browser, log in to Drive, locate the desired file, open it, and work from there.
     
  83. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I am not sure where the AT SS came from but the ranges aren't quite correct. I would be happy to set up the correct SS for you and help you access it on your tablet.

    I'll send you a private message so just check your inbox.
     
  84. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Sorry somehow I got on different thread. Anyway his amps was 208. I wondered how much to give. Now I know why there were no answers. I gave 2.5U as I didn't want to drop while at work. The +2 was 253. Can't test again til I get home. But looking like 3U will be his dose. Still have to fine tune yet.
     
  85. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Sorry for being techie challenged but I don't see an inbox here. Where do I find your message?
     
  86. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Paula, check next to ALERTS at the top right of the screen. It will say INBOX that's where all private conversation are. When Marje and Gracie sends you a message about setting up your SS, it will be there with a number 1 ( or more if there is more than one message ) to let you know you have mail in your mailbox.
     
  87. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    You already did and we've been conversing about the spreadsheet. Look in the upper right corner to the right of your login name and you'll see "inbox". It might have some red numbers next to it telling you how ,any messages are there and should at least have a "1" because I responded to a private message you sent me in the inbox. :)

    Don't worry...there is a learning curve to using the board. You'll get it quickly. For advice, etc, post here in this thread. But for things like spreadsheet assistance, we can do that via private messages in the inbox so it doesn't clog up this thread.
     
  88. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I think 208 is the lowest amps yet? I see him slowly dropping, in dose and levels, which is good. I like 2.5 today. Glad your husband can keep an eye out. The 253 was probably a food rise. Often that first test reflects the am meal.

    For the future, we suggest new diabetics not shoot under 200 but stall. Wait 20 minutes and retest, without feeding. You want to make sure the number is rising, not falling. (Still falling would mean the insulin from the previous shot is still working). And you'd like a number 200+. Once you have data and know his patterns, you can shoot under 200. But it is a good baseline at first.
     
  89. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Ok now I'm on my phone. Didn't see the alert button until I rotated the phone to landscape. DUH!!!! I'm familiar with online forums but forget things show a little different depending on device and been using 3 of them. One not cooperating at all. Not usually this scattered, actually pretty good with computers but this weekend has been overwhelming between smokey and a family issue and husband home on vacation. I think I need to go away on vacation!
     
    Bobbie And Bubba likes this.
  90. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Maybe the vet is right and he is converting as she says. Yes the 208 is the lowest. Smokey isnt newly diabetic just apparantly poorly managed. In part because of mothers dementia. Before i took him he hadnt been seen by vet in over 2 years. Anyway I've learned so much here. When I took smokey a year ago. No one made sure I even knew how to give insulin. I knew being a retired nurse. But really no instructions of any kind. Just bring him in every 6 weeks for testing. Then I spoke up. But still very little instruction on ear stick. Just use needle instead of lancet and kind of scrape around. We will persevere! With all of you at our side.
     
    Bobbie And Bubba likes this.
  91. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    :bighug:That's the spirit!
     
  92. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I just want to express my thanks to @Sue and Oliver (GA) for staying with me into the wee hours during his episode, @Shiloh & Rhonda , @Sharon14 , @Shiloh & Rhonda , @Squalliesmom for trying to help me with spreadsheet and information on foods etc. To @Marje and Gracie for actually getting the ss and attaching. See below its up now. Can only do it from my phone. Calling Amazon to find it why I can't get it on kindle even after paying foe apps.

    Anyways Smokey has done quite well as you can see. Even though husband claims to have no interest and kept saying "let him be he's fine just having an off day" guess who texted me every 2 hrs while I was at work today to tell what Smokey was doing if he ate or not. Guess deep down he does care enough but doesn't let on. If I missed anyone please forgive me but know I'm very grateful for your help.
     
  93. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Paula, glad to hear Smokey is settling in. You are a good bean for taking such good care of him and to know that hubby cares as much too, Smokey is two times blessed.
     
  94. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Congrats on the spreadsheet. It looks like you need to choose "Share" and then share with anyone with the link. We can't access it.

    Paula, how about starting a new link on Health now that you have everything going - diet, spreadsheet. Often different people post there than here and you may get some others who have experience with Vetsulin. We'll follow you over. Put Vetsulin in the subject line.

    Some husbands get into the science of this whole thing and some and and some begin to see how dependent this kitty is on their care. Either way, nice!
     
  95. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Ok will go over to health. Be forewarned the ss isn't working will explain there.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page