Help! 38 at +3

Orange just tested low. He's acting normal. I just gave him some high carb dry food. What else do I do?

 

I think he ate a little less than normal this morning of his new wet food - maybe a 1/4 can?

He's munching away at the dry food right now.

 

You are going to want to test him again in about 30 minutes and keep testing until he gets back up into safe numbers. If need be you will want to have some Karo Syrup available if he keeps going lower. (Just went through this last night with Musette she was 31 at +10). The High Carb food is the best but may take awhile to kick in. if he keeps dropping you will want to get some Karo into him but just a tiny little bit

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

What insulin do you use?

Amy

 

Hi Julie,

What other foods do you have in the house? Most likely the dry food will bring him up, but since it takes the digestive system longer to process dry food, it may take longer. If you have any canned cat foods with gravy in them, that would be preferred. Since you're using dry right now, please test his BG again in 15 minutes. Do you have honey, corn syrup, maple syrup, anything like that available?

A 38 on Lantus is dose reduction time. He's been on 1U for a while now and that's why you're getting this excellent result! Trust me, even though it's low, it's a good thing to need a dose reduction.

+3 is pretty early in the cycle to have a low, so you're going to need to stick with this for a while and get more testing in. Are you comfortable with testing? How is Orange with the testing, that's probably more important!

Others will hop on shortly I'm sure. We're here for moral support as well as advice.

 

ok 10 more min until the 30 min test - will post an update then

 

Cross posted to Lantus TR to get more eyes here, I can't stay, Musette is just coming off a low near hypo from last night so need to keep an eye on her.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

A couple of us on the Lantus board have requested some experienced help for you. I'm sure someone will be here shortly.

Hang in there! You'll get thru this. I know its scary. Just remember you're not alone.

 

54 now

I have honey here incase he needs it. He is fine with testing, im still not the best - but ill do as many as you tell me.

no high carb wet in the house.

when should i test again?

 

BTW nice catch on the low BGs This is what makes all those ear pokes worth it...scary yes, but when you know it is starting it is easy to fix and we will walk you through it and hold your hand.

Test again in 30 minutes an post again, ideally you want to see 2-3 rising numbers.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Thank you!!!!

I'm shaking over here... don't know what I would do without you. Watching him like a hawk right now and hoping the numbers don't go lower.

 

Hi, Julia.

Great catch and you're handling the numbers really well. Honey is fine to use. It takes a little longer than Karo to bump numbers up since it has a lower glycemic index than Karo but it works. You can add a couple of drops of honey to a tiny bit of LC (1/4 teaspoon or thereabout). You just don't want to fill Orange too much since it can take a little while to stabilize the numbers.

In case you haven't see it or printed it out, these are instructions for handling low numbers. It's helpful to have the info in writing.

 

Should I give him the honey now? Or wait to see his next number?

I'm going to go to the store to get some karo and high carb wet tonight after all this is over.

 

Your welcome Hon,

That is what we are here for! And it is only scary the first couple of times, once you have been through it, it like everything else gets easier. My little girl just did this to me last night at 4:30 in the morning, but because I know her so well, and been down this road a couple of times with her, I got up tested, got the low, staggered out to the kitchen got her food (she is a food spiker) fed her, set the alarm to test again in an hour and took a nap with her sleeping on my chest. When the alarm went off tested her again she was up to 135, crawled back in bed and went back to sleep.

It does get easier I promise.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

I'm not sure where you are at in the cycle (what's your +time) and the most recent test.

You're aiming to get Orange surfing in numbers above 50 (preferably the 60s or higher). Like Mel said, you want to see at least 2 tests well above 50 before you can back off and test every hour vs. ever 30 min.

 

My Ruby spent a good chunk of yesterday bouncing around in the 30s and 40s. We've only been doing this for about 3 months and it does get easier.

I'm going sit back now and leave it the experts so I don't clog things up. Just remember we're here for you!

Amy

 

I'm at +3.5 in the last test.

 

38 at +3
54 at +3.5

 

Also, now that I'm reading the How to Handle low numbers page I'm realizing I shouldn't have given him so much food. (I have read it before but this is my first time dealing with this and my first thought as soon as I saw a 38 was to get some carbs in him). I had just put a bowl of the food out and he ate a bunch of it.

How much of a problem is this going to be?

 

We just need him to stay hungry, should we need to feed him more. This is early in the cycle, so you may have to feed and test every half hour or so, for a while. You don't want Orange to be refusing to eat, because he's full. Usually, their instincts will tell them they need to eat when they are low. Do you have anyone that you can send out for higher carb food, or maybe you have a neighbor with cats that you can borrow some from. If not, you can just continue to make your own with low carb and honey mixed in. It's just that with the high carb food, you could give him just the gravy (where all the carbs are) and he would'nt get so full on just gravy.

 

Hopefully, it won't be a problem. There's probably not a person here who, the first time their cat was in low numbers, didn't do exactly what you did. I think there was someone who was giving cans of gravy-based Fancy Feast!

I would get another test at +4 and let's see where Orange is at. Just be sure to not be giving teaspoons of honey. It only takes a couple of drops to get numbers on the rise. Like Dyana said, most cats will instinctively eat when they're in low numbers. The other issue with giving a lot of food is because they'll eat, if they eat too much you may have scarf-and-barf happening. Having a cat in low numbers that then barfs, isn't helpful when you're trying to get numbers up.

 

With the 54 he came up pretty good. What type of dry food did you give? Most dry with grains in it is at least 30% kcal from carbs, so he's probably good for awhile. Just keep testing every half hour till we get a couple above 60s then you can go probably go hourly on the testing. You can always rub syrup on his gums if he won't lick it off your finger.

The bigger problem I see with using dry to ward off hypos is that it then causes a pretty huge spike in BGs from the carb load plus possible rebound hormones form the low in itself. Don't be surprised if you see 500s by tonight's preshot. I'm sure the Lantus folks will help you with where to go with dose from here.

 

You're doing great--just keep testing to make sure he's going up. When you run to the store, grab a few cans of Fancy Feast that have gravy--these are high carb foods that you use to give BG a boost when it goes a little low like this. The gravy foods get in his system to raise BG right away, and they wear off relatively quickly. The dry food takes a while to kick in, and keeps BG high for a much longer period of time.

You can expect his BG to likely be pretty high tonight--the low number and the dry food are probably going to make him skyrocket. Don't panic--it will come down.

Congrats on getting your first dose reduction! Do you know how to measure out .75u? At the bottom of this thread there's a picture of how to measure .25u of insulin. .75u would be measured the same way, but above the .5u line instead of below it.

At this point, you just need to keep him up until the dry food kicks in. As long as he'll eat small amounts of something high in carbs or sugar to boost him 'til that happens, you'll be fine. Do you have any ice cream? A teaspoon of that if needed can boost him a bit. Or can you run out really fast and grab some high carb food? If worse comes to worse and he won't eat anymore and he drops again, you can always rub some honey on his gums.

 

87 at +4

I don't have a way right now to get any other food. The HC wet probably wouldn't be much of a help today - I'm still trying to get him used to wet foods and so far have found only 1 flavor that he will eat (9% carbs).

I do have a supply of HC dry (which is what I gave him a bunch of) and honey and maple syrup (he hasn't had any of those yet).

 

i saw mel's SOS on the Lantus forum, but see you've got plenty of experienced help.

since you're julie and you have Orange - who looks much like my punkin, i had to post and say a quick hi anyway.

you're doing fine. make sure you reduce his shot tonight, probably to .75u, but let's see what happens in the meantime.

the dry food will make him high and keep him there for a while. you can get the other foods later for the next time.

 

The dry food I gave him is Hills C/D (the prescription food for my other kitty that I had both of them on until he was diagnosed).

I'm going to stay here until the +4.5 test, then make a run to the store if he's still looking good.

 

Hi Julie! Oh my gosh! If someone had handed me that picture of punkin I would have thought he was my Orange!

 

Orange's numbers are on the way up.

Julia and Vicky are right -- don't be surprised if you see high numbers. Dry food takes a while to get into your cat's system and have an effect on BG numbers. It also takes a while to work it's way out of your cat's system. This is why we all use a HC canned food. Even if Orange is still transitioning to canned food, most cats find the gravy in HC canned food irresistible.

I think you could wait and hour and re-test just to be sure that numbers are not dropping again.

FWIW, the C/D is over 30% carb. Most of us feed below 10% as low carb and above 17% is considered HC.

 

103 at +4.5

I'm feeling much better now. Heading out to the store (I'll feel more comfortable if I have all supplies here right away for next time).

I'll test again in an hour.

 

191

I'm going to relax a bit. A big THANK YOU to everyone!

 

Good job handling this!!

 

383 - high numbers now, just like you guys said.

I talked to the vet about the dose reduction (and ended up bringing him in for a visit), and I'll drop him down starting with tonights injection.

The problem is that my syringes measure by the unit. The vet said they haven't seen syringes with 1/2 unit markings. I called CVS and they said they don't carry them. Where are you guys buying them from?

 

I have U-100 syringes with half unit markings that I get at Walgreens.
Our vet called them in as a prescription but I don't think you actually need one. This is how it shows up in Ruby's prescription history on Walgreens site.
"WALGREENS SYR/NDL 31G 0.3ML 8MM"
They have the 5/16 short needle and are called "Super Thin II".

 

a lot of people buy monojects - what you are specifically looking for is 3/10cc with 1/2 unit markings. i use the Terumo below, but one of our members has found that for cats who need the most accuracy in the markings, the monoject is more consistent from syringe to syringe.

http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...o-insulin-syringe-31g-310cc-38-100bx_5891.htm

http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...t-insulin-syringes_1291.htm?source=SiteSearch

there's a button to click at the top of the main screen to shop at AmericanDiabetesWholesale - a portion of the profits goes to this site maintenance. many people shop there, at Hocks.com or for strips, on ebay. if you buy on ebay, make certain you have a reputable seller and the strips are not past their expiration date.

look at this page and scroll down partway to see the photos of doses under 1 unit. Lots of other good info for you on this page also. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

 

I got my 31g, .3cc, 5/16" needles with half unit markings at Walmart. Sometimes they are out of stock and have to order them, but they get there within a day or two. Just make sure you have the vet write the script for exactly that, and specify half unit markings on the script. Also, make sure the box says it before you leave the pharmacy. Sometimes they'll mess up and give you the ones without the markings by accident. The syringes $13 at walmart. Any pharmacy can order them for you, though. They're made for children with diabetes who need small doses of insulin, which is why they are perfect for cats.

If a pharmacy says they don't have them, ask them to order them for you. They are able to order them--after all, what do they do if they have a diabetic child that needs them? If the pharmacy person says they can't order them, I'd ask to speak to a manager. Sometimes you get some weird service at pharmacies when they find out the supplies are for an animal. However, your money is still green, right?

Here's a link to the syringe you want: http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/d_06_342.htm

 

Walmart's Relion Syringes that are 3/10cc all have 1/2 unit marks, they are $13 for 100 syringes or $2 for a pack of 10. Although I have discovered at least at my Walmart, the folks behind the counter are clueless that they have ones with 1/2u marks :roll: So when I go in for syringes I just ask for 3/10cc, 31 gauge short needles and they have always had the 1/2 unit marks on them.

With 2 diabetics I have tried about 4 different brands and so far my favorites are the Relion's and they are also about the cheapest out there, plus just darn easy to pick up my cat food, litter, syringes for Musette and test strips for Maxwell (he is in remission so don't get his strips often), dog food & human groceries while I'm in town and at Walmart. When you live in a one horse (okay half a horse town :lol: ) and drive an F-150 pickup, with gas at nearly $4/gallon I'm all for 1 stop shopping.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang

 

Thanks!

 

Any pharmacy can special order you half unit marked insulin syringes. I had the same problem with a local CVS - they insisted that there was no such thing as half unit marked insulin syringes even after I showed them the product listing I had printed off from the BD web site :roll:

To avoid hassels with the local pharmacy, just buy your insulin syringes online. Hocks.com is one place but in the past year or so the service has done downhill because of a compnay buy-out. AmericanDiabetesWholesale.com is the current place where many people buy insulin syringes.

I used to buy the Monoject 3/10 cc 29 gauge 1/2 inch with half unit markings: http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...t-insulin-syringes_1289.htm?source=SiteSearch The half unit marked Monojects also come in 31 gauge 5/16 inch needles and 30 gauge 5/16 inch needle You have the option of buying a single box or a case of 3 boxes.



Alternative picture with the lines marked with the number of units.