? HELP!! AMPS 182. No shot. Six hours later 306. Leaving home soon. What to do?? HELP!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Nicki & Marcus, Feb 7, 2020.

  1. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Hi everyone,
    I have posted over the past several days to the Lantus page, since that was the insulin last prescribed for my Marcus before his 2 year remission, but as of tonight, we were given Vetsulin.

    My question: We, at first, had thought that maybe because Marcus had sneaked in and eaten dry cat food that it had bumped him out of remission. He spent today at the vet, and about $500 later, he had bloodwork, urine testing, and even an antibiotic injection--in addition to new insulin and syringes. He seemed lethargic again (he actually seemed more himself last night and this morning, even with a BG of 300+) and my daughter and I noticed what we thought was a poop smudge on his back hip. Upon closer inspection, it was a scab which when peeled back revealed a puss-filled small hole about half the size of a pea--and another one next to it. They are painful. He was not happy, but we removed the puss, put on some Neosporin--We are fairly sure that this was a bite from the newest rescue cat we just adopted. We did not see him get attacked, but we did see the new guy bite one of our other cats (we now have 4 total).

    Could this bite wound be the cause of Marcus's spike in BG? Should I take him back to the vet tomorrow morning? $$ I already called and left a message for them to call me. I know they gave him an antibiotic injection, but there is a hole that worries me. (I will probably take him anyway.) I gave Marcus the new insulin earlier. I've checked BG twice and it is in the 200's, so down some more. I'm worried--still. He has no energy and not very hungry.
     
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  2. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Yes, take him back to the vet to get the bite examined. Depending on how it's healing and how deep it is, they may want to put a temporary drain tube in. And yes, infection/inflammation could definitely cause higher BGs. Poor Marcus. :bighug:
     
  3. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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  4. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    What antibiotic was given? Given tyour description of the bite it is draining. Thus, the only treatment would be antibiotics. Yes, the bite could raise BGs.
     
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  5. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    The antibiotic Convenia was given. I took him back to the vet an hour ago. (No charge for today since they just saw him yesterday.) They shaved the area and cleaned the wounds. Because his BG was 208 and they are only open until noon today, they said to wait until tomorrow to check and start the insulin. They want me to check him before and an hour after breakfast first. They are open Sunday from 9-4.
    Thanks, everyone, for your advice and input. It is taken and appreciated!
     
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  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Warm, wet compresses can help keep the wound draining. I hope he gets better now.
     
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  7. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Marcus update: Wound area looks better. Tested him and he was 253 in the a.m. I gave him breakfast, then waited 2 hours as told by vet, and he was 275 pre-shot. I gave him 1 unit of Vetsulin, checked 2 hours later and down to 171. Checked 3 hours later and down to 147. I will check again before dinner.
     
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  8. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yeah Marcus! for the wound area looking better.

    That sounds a little odd to me. The sequence that you are doing.

    Test, feed, wait 2 hours, test again (Pre-shot test), shoot insulin, +2 171, +5 147

    + time hour system for recording on the spreadsheet is counting from the shot of insulin
    The pre-shot test for the morning goes in the AMPS column
    The pre-shot test is the test you do just before giving insulin.

    The +2 ( 2 hours after giving insulin) goes in the +2 column. (current cycle is AM)
    The +5 ( 5 hours after giving insulin) goes in the +5 column. (current cycle is AM)
    The 253 you got, is part of the PMPS cycle from the previous day. That would go in the PMPS side of the SS +10 column for 2/8/20.

    Don't think of this as being equal to the current day. Think in 24 hour blocks of time, with 2 12 hour cycles in that block of time. From one AMPS, and the next 11 hours of the 12 hour cycle. Then PMPS and the next 11 hours of the 12 hour cycle.

    Vetsulin only needs 20-30 minutes from food to shot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 8:46 PM
  9. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    They told me to wait an hour --actually not 2--after feeding to give him a shot, but I was forced to leave the house immediately after feeding and did not return until it had been 2 hours. I agree I have messed up the sequence today and will do better tomorrow.
    So he is 200 now as the pre-shot. I have not given him the insulin. I just asked on the Vetsulin page and was waiting. He just ate.
     
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  10. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I think you are better off skipping the shot for tonight. That way, you can get back on to your regular schedule tomorrow morning.

    Would you fix your signature please? It still says Lantus and using Alphatrak meter. Is that still correct for the meter?
     
  11. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Thanks so much. I'll start again in the morning
    I had tried for the last week to change my signature, making it super short, and I kept getting an error message telling me it was one line too long. So just now, I put Marcus's ss and the rest in one line--it finally accepted the change.

    Yes, still using the Alphatrak meter.
     
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  12. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    250 character limit and 2 line limit. You can keep typing the characters, using the | mark to separate info. Keep on typing and it should wrap the text down to the next line, as if you were entering data into a post and the text was so long it needed to go down the next line like this.

    Problems like that, ask for help over in the Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area forum. Someone, often me, will try to help you the best we can. Hope that helps for next time.

    Yes, we do have a tech support forum.
    Yes, I'm the one that redirected you over here. More people here to help you out, maybe not every minute of the day. But more people here than over in Vetsulin ISG.
     
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  13. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    So, this morning--pre-shot was 317. He ate, 25 minutes later, I gave him one unit of Vetsulin. Tonight,(12 hours later) pre-shot is now 212. He is eating. What do you think about a shot?
    Yesterday, he only had one injection in the a.m. of 1 unit--nothing in the evening.

    What do you think?
     
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  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Vetsulin is best dosed 2 times a day. That PMPS of 212 is high enough to give some insulin. Maybe only 0.75U? Do you think you can measure that in your insulin syringes?

    Are you able to monitor some tonight?

    Maybe a +2 and then a test before you go to bed, as close to the +5 as you can get?

    p.s. Dose of insulin changes so frequently having it in your signature is not needed. May be confusing.
     
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  15. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    I can definitely monitor him some tonight. I'm giving him a smaller dose right now.
     
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  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Sounds like a good plan.
     
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  17. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Thanks for your help. Is Wink still around? He is beautiful!
     
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  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I hold Wink close in my memories and my heart. I had to let him go to the rainbow bridge almost 3 years ago. The (GA) after his name in my signature is my tribute to him. Don't worry, I simply hug him differently these days. With my heart.

    But he is the reason I'm here helping other people with their diabetic kitties and teaching them the steps of the "sugardance."

    That picture of him in my avatar is still one of my favorites. Besides the one showing his incredibly floofy tail.
     
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  19. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    I read now about your Wink. What a great story! I'm so glad you found one another and that he was able to enjoy a much better quality of life.

    At +2 Marcus is at 148. I'm going to set an alarm and get up in 3 hours and check him again. He seems very much like himself, jumping to the dresser and a desk, ruffling papers in a basket to get attention.

    Thank you again, Deb, for being here for people such as me!
     
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  20. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    So he is at 181 pre-shot. So maybe give him an even smaller amount? Anyone out there? It's early.
     
  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    What did you end up doing with the insulin this morning?
     
  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    p.s. In the future, change the title on your thread, put the ? prefix at the beginning, put the pre-shot number in the title and put the word HELP in big letters to get you more attention.

    So those of us scanning the message board Feline Health forum will check your post first.
     
  23. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    I gave him .5 this morning, and he was 236 pre-shot tonight. I then gave him .75 this evening, and as I wrote in the new and improved edited thread title, he is down to 129 at +2. I did get up in the night last night to get the +5 reading to see how it went. Shall I do it again?

    Thanks for the advice on the thread title. I didn't even realize I could edit that.
     
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  24. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, you might even want a +4 tonight. Numbers are dropping fast.
    You really don't want him to fall much below 90 with the Alphatrak.

    If the BG falls below 69 with the Alphatrak, you'll need to give him a little bit of his regular food to bring the numbers back up. then test again in 30 minutes.

    How long ago was the +2? How long until +4?

    Did you/could you feed him a small snack around +2?

    Would you please update the SS with todays BG tests.
     
  25. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    He got the snack anyway as the food was still there and he went back at +2, but did not get the retesting done. Did not see your reply until just now. I have him retested now at 220 for amps. Should I give him less in the injection? I don't have the numbers from during the night this time.
     
  26. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Gave him a .5 since I had to leave for work. He seems very alert and chipper. My daughter may be home at +2 and if so, she will test him.
     
  27. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Not on early enough in the mornings to help you with the dosing.
    The 0.5U this AM 2/12/20 was a good judgment call on your part.
    Marcus seems to drop real fast on the Vetsulin.
    Anytime you can get a +2 would be good.
    If your daughter is home at +2 this morning, I hope she can test him then.

    You may want to invest in a timed feeder so Marcus has some food to eat at +2, and then again at +4 to +6.
    That could help to slow the quick, steep slide to lower BG (blood glucose) numbers.
    Or you could freeze some of the food and make catsicles (hockey pucks).
    Catsicles are the canned food mixed with some water, frozen and leave a couple out in the morning before you leave.

    The catsicles are another way to leave some food available for Marcus to nibble on, since they will slowly defrost.
    You can try the frozen catsicles (ice cube tray size) at night too, while you are asleep.

    The concern is that he would drop into the green shaded numbers, below 69 mg/dL on the Alphatrak.
    If he does, many cats will seek out food on their own to try and bring their blood glucose back up.
    Don't know if Marcus gobbles all his food down at once, or if he is more of a grazer.

    Grazer? Gobbler? A way to leave some food out for him to eat during the middle of the day?
    Timed feeder?

    Those are my ideas for you today.
     
  28. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    So, we just got home--we have snow and ice--and the PMPS is 168. He is eating now. So, what about a shot tonight? Should a tiny bit be given? I truly appreciate your help.

    Marcus and two cats eat together--all Friskies pate--and will go back and forth to the dishes for an hour or more until most of it is gone. So Marcus gulps and grazes for a short period of time. Lately, there is still a chunk left in at least one of the bowls left overnight--it's actually from food we give them at about 10 or 11 p.m. The morning meal is usually gone by the time we get home. We may try the catsicles--our problem might be that Cat #2 and Cat #3 will eat whatever is left. Marcus's brother, Max is 16.2 pounds, so he doesn't miss many meals. Marcus is 19 pounds. The third cat, Toby, is a tiny thing--maybe 6 pounds and is a grazer.

    Thanks for your ideas!
     
  29. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    It's 236 now-2 hours after feeding, but he continued nibbling --food is still there and he's been back and forth a ton of times. I am giving him .5.
     
  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Ok. Not always able to get back to people in time to review.

    0.5U it is.
     
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  31. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    You can't always be here and I totally understand! You have been here when it mattered the most, and I'm always grateful!
     
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  32. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    He's 161 at Amps. Feeding now. What about an injection? Small amount? How small? He'll be on his own with his 2 brothers all day. Anyone here? IF not, I'll make a call.
     
  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    We don't usually recommend that people give insulin if the pre-shot is <200. As you gain experience on how Marcus does this time around, you can lower the pre-shot threshold for giving insulin.

    Very small amount. Maybe 0.1U. one tenth of a unit.
    Stopper of syringe would be practically touching the end of the syringe.

    Next time, try to stall and retest in about 20 minutes without feeding. To see if the BG number is rising.
    Concept is the same for U40 syringes. Placement of the end of the plunger is the key factor to look at.
    Pictorial guide using a U-100 syringe marked with half units:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  34. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    Help from anyone. Marcus's BG went from 190 at +5 last night, to 182 AMPS. I did not give him a shot. Now, at about 6 hours after that, I check and he's 306. I am leaving soon and will not be back until probably 10 p.m.

    What should I do? I won't be here during regular feeding time. HELP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020 at 1:10 PM
    Reason for edit: Waiting at home nervously--hoping someone will answer before I have to finally leave home.
  35. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    An hour or so later, it's 299, so down a touch. Any thoughts?
     
  36. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Dose at regular shot time.
    Are you saying you will not be home tonight at regular PMPS shot time?
     
  37. Nicki & Marcus

    Nicki & Marcus Member

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    Mar 10, 2018
    I was not supposed to be, but I just cancelled something so I can get here in between and do that. He's acting himself, but I want to make sure he is ok and gets what he needs.
    Thanks so much for answering!!!!
     
  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Marcus looks like one of those cats that have a large increase in BG level between +11 and pre-shot test.

    Basing that assessment on the 1 +11 test you did on 2/12/20.

    You may want to see if you can get a +11 test more often.
    To catch that steep rise between +11 and pre-shot test.
    Need to find a dose you can give twice a day, without feeling the need to skip.

    p.s. Tiki cat sardines may stink but boy do cats love that flavor. Great as a topper on the regular food to get cats to eat.
     

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