Help for Molly #2

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Adrienne & Molly, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That 20.6 is a direct result of the big drop she had as well as not getting insulin this AM. I'm glad you get that extra test done. You can hold off until PMPS now.
     
  3. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Ok, what dose do I give her tonight? Should I leave a little bit of kibbles in her dish tonight? Like a little handful
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Give her only 1 unit tonight. This is your new dose for the next few days while you complete the food transition. We don't know yet if it's her "good dose" but it *should* be low enough for the food changeover. You could try giving her a snack of wet food with a few kibbles on top before you go to bed yourself. The goal is to get her off kibble so the less you can get away with the better.

    Re hitting the vein when doing a BG test: it can happens sometimes and they feel it more plus it bleeds quite a bit. Try aiming for "almost falling off the edge" of her ear.

    Make sure to get a PMPS tonight even though she didn't have insulin this AM - more practice for each of you. ;)
     
  5. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I did her PMPS it’s up! :(
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    She hasn't had insulin in 24 hours plus she's on the rebound from being low. Don't worry - this is very normal. BTW - you can enter an NS for this AM's dose. It means "no shot".
     
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  7. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Ok hopefully I can sleep tonight lol. I’ll probably worry all night.
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    She'll be fine. :)
     
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow! I missed all the excitement as I was out all day today and am just now catching up. Delighted to see that lower BG today. I can see how this might seem concerning Adrienne, especially when her BG went back up later but that lower BG is exactly what we were aiming to see and the higher numbers are to be expected after the lower BG right now. I see Kris advised dropping the dose to 1u and I agree completely. The change of food is definitely helping Molly's BG come down and you are making great progress with her! :D
     
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  10. Jake and Riley

    Jake and Riley New Member

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    Hi Adrienne, my cat was diagnosed a week before yours, and his BG numbers resemble Molly's. Only been testing about a week, (vet recommended not testing to begin with, so as not to stress me and Riley. I then ordered the Pet Test Advocate meter off Amazon, and it was delayed with the snow storm). Anyway, I'm doing my first curve today to see if it's ok to increase his insulin from 2 to 2.5 starting tomorrow. I last increased it from 1.5 to 2 a week ago. If I've read correctly, this should be ok. I've also finally eliminated dry food, it's been a few days now and I think both cats are getting used to only wet food, (I was told to keep giving some dry for dental health). It's a slow and nerve-wrecking experience; I'm so grateful for the guidance on this forum. Best of luck on your journey with Molly. Let's hope we both get them regulated soon
     
  11. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I would recommend increasing by only 0.25 u at a time. Are you using U40 insulin syringes or a vet pen for the insulin? Getting rid of all dry food is definitely the way to go.
     
  12. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    She was starving this morning. I left some wet out for her. Right before I went to bed, but I think she ate it
    Today I’m still giving her the dry. Only half of a half cup. Give her the other half tonight. I’m hoping she won’t look for the dry food.
    Yes it was a stressful day yesterday
     
  13. Jake and Riley

    Jake and Riley New Member

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    I'm using Caninsulin Vet Pen, so I think 0.5 is my smallest increment.
     
  14. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Hi Jake,
    My vet only wanted me to test once a week. Not to change her food. Wanted me to increase her insulin to 6 units. I’m very happy I have found the message to advise on what to do for Molly. It’s been stressful I didn’t realize that it would be.
    I’m not sure what I’m going to tell my vet. Now that Molly is on 1 unit and is transitioning over to a low carb food.
    Molly is having a hard time, she loves her dry food. Although I have cut her back quite a bit.
    Good luck with your curve today. I’m still learning at that. Best of luck to you and Riley! Keep us posted on your progress!
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'd encourage you to try using U40 insulin syringes with half unit marks. I can guarantee that'll you'll want to be able to give (eyeballed) quarter unit dose fractions once your kitty's BGs are lower.
     
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  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I see the pink this AM. That's not bad considering she had no AM dose yesterday and she was in black at PMPS last night. Many kitties adore kibble but so long as Molly is willing to eat the wet food don't worry. More wet, less dry will get you where she needs to be BG-wise. Try substituting more of the freeze dried chicken as a treat. You WILL get there.

    Re your vet: if you have to discuss her progress at some point, you have a spreadsheet of dropping BG levels to prove that the S/O wet/dry diet was causing the high, flat BG numbers and ever increasing insulin doses. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Keep adding water to Molly's wet food meals to promote good hydration and keep her peeing well.

    Vets try hard to do the right thing but they aren't all well informed on how to treat feline diabetes. Mine is a general practice vet but has an interest in FD so she was more ahead of the curve than most. She told me a lot of the right things for Teasel: start at 1 u twice a day, remove all dry food from his diet and feed only low carb wet food (he'd been on S/O for a very long time), test his BG at home, etc. However, I wasn't told to test before every shot but to only do a curve every 7 to 10 days in the beginning. Dose increases of 0.5 u were recommended. Over many months I learned that didn't work. I was no further ahead than at the start. Once I came here and did things the FDMB way, I discovered why I had gotten nowhere and learned how very complicated Teasel is.

    Hang in there! :)
     
  17. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    How often should I feed her the fancy feast? I gave her some of the SO wet this morning. Maybe I shouldn’t have done that.
    I think my vet is more concerned, not changing her food. Where she had crystals in the past. But I read some where maybe on one of the forums here. Royal Canine can cause the crystals, asthma and diabetes. All three things Molly has had or has. She’s been on Royal Canine since a kitten then to the SO.
    I’ll send the SS to my vet see what he says. But she is my cat and my husbands lol. We want to do what’s best for her!
    She’s more playful this morning!
     
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  18. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The switch to Fancy Feast from the SO only needs to be tempered by Molly's reaction. We recommend a slow transition to avoid any GI upset from diet change. If Molly likes the Fancy Feast, then mix that and a bit of SO together and keep reducing the SO by a little every day or 2 until she if off the SO. As long as Molly isn't having any GI issues, you can give her the Fancy Feast as you like.
    The fact that Molly is more playful is a great sign. Sometimes we get hung up on the BG numbers but observations of kitty regaining their former energy and past playful behaviour are important too. She is obviously feeling better and that is just what you are aiming to achieve and says a lot about the progress you are making! :D
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Well, my goodness! She has a yellow (really almost a blue) at +8 after only 1 u this AM. That's terrific! You and Molly are progressing by leaps and bounds. :)
     
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  20. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    She’s a red tonight, but I gave her a couple kibbles half hour before. Not sure if that’s the reason?
     
  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Could be. That's why we recommend no food at all in the 2 hours before a pre shot test. You want to see the BG with no food inflation effect. Still - a good cycle today. :)
     
  22. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Liking that +8 yesterday. That red at PMPS may have been a bit of food influence but could also be a little bounce from the +8 which Molly is still getting used to. Looking good! :D
     
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  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    A similar pink this AM to yesterday's AM. The goal for now is to see how she settles on that 1 u dose during the food switch. Once she's off all high carb food we can assess it properly and decide whether it needs to stay as is or be nudged up in 0.25 u increments.

    I'll bet you're feeling more confident about testing even if Miss Molly isn't a fan. ;)
     
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  24. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Ok, I won't feed her 2 hours before. She slept quite a bit yesterday. Was hungry all evening!
     
  25. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I'm finding it hard to get her off the dry food. She looks for it and the morning testing is the hardest, she won't sit still but I manage to get it. I wrap her in a blanket and not sure what I'm going to tell my vet. I noticed Molly isn't drinking as much?
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Just keep up the program - it's working! Sometimes they feel a little off when they first drop into better BG levels and that could make her want to sleep more.
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Try substituting small snacks of Fancy Feast when she seems hungry. Give her a little snack of that immediately before her AM test. Getting them off dry food can be challenging and it's a case of retraining their eating habits. @MrWorfMen's Mom's diabetic kitty was a die hard kibble girl. She might have more advice for you.

    Not drinking as much goes along with getting her BG lower. It's a good sign. :)
     
  28. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    This morning she has SO wet a little bit. Then I tested her, I gave her a little of the kibble. She was still looking for food, so I gave her fancy feast diluted in water.

    Ok, I just worry when she doesn't drink as much. Where she's had crystals in the past.
     
  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    OHHHH the kibble! My girl, Menace, would not recognize wet food as being edible. She has 2 brothers who were eating wet food and she would try to bury their food like it was waste. If looks could kill, I would have dropped dead a million times holding stand offs with my girl trying to convince her that wet food was edible and if she wanted to eat that was what was on the menu.

    I had been trying to transition her to wet food from 10 weeks old when she joined our family. It wasn't until just past 2 years into our diabetic journey that I caught her eating some wet food out of her brother's dish. I then, against all advice, removed the dry food cold turkey because I was convinced that if I let her have it again, she would revert back to her old ways and again completely refuse the wet food. We had a few more standoffs and I relented with a few kibble bits a few times but I did a very speedy switch compared to most. Thankfully she didn't have any GI issues.

    Her one brother still loves a tiny bit of kibble for treats so I keep some on hand and sneak it to him periodically. To this day, if she hears anything that even remotely sounds like kibble (macaroni being measured for instance) she comes running hoping for a feed of her favourite food!

    It's unfortunate that in Canada we do not have access to the very low carb dry food they get in the US. If we could get that, it would give us an option to satisfy that "craving" with a little snack for our kibble addicted kitties. As it stands, the lowest carb dry food we have here is about 14% carbs which is too high for our extra sweet babies.

    Believe me, it breaks my heart not to be able to give her a little treat of kibble now and then but her health has to come first so I hold my ground. :)
     
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  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Adding water to all wet food meals is a great way to keep her hydrated. I actually use a tablespoon to measure out Teasel's so I have a general idea of how much extra water he gets over a day. I put 3 to 4 Tbsp in every meal which turns it into a sort of soupy stew. That's 45 to 60 mL because 1 Tbsp = 15 mL. After his four daily meals he's been given anywhere from 180 to 240 mL of extra water. A one cup measure is about 250 mL.
     
  31. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I'm going to have to stop giving her the kibble. She's down to 1/2 c a day now which is good!. I sent an email off to my vet about the change in food. I'm anxious about what he's going to say. If he asked for my spreadsheet and with the data I have. Will he agree that it was or is the food?

    What's the name of the food in USA?
    what symptoms are for GI?
     
  32. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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  33. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The US folks have access to Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein and Young Again. Young Again is only available online. Are you near the border such that you are considering making a trip to get some? If so just be forewarned that it is illegal to bring pet food into Canada unless you have the animal for which the food is intended in the vehicle with you when you cross the border so don't announce that you have it. I think if customs found it, they would just confiscate it.
     
  34. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    No, Im not close to the border. But I have relatives in the US thought maybe they could ship it over. They might get in trouble for that!
     
  35. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel's meals are each 1/3 of a 5.5 oz can, not the little 3 oz Fancy Feast cans.
     
  36. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Can you buy the bigger cans? I only see the little ones, Or I'm not seeing the bigger ones.
     
  37. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, if customs gets suspicious, they will open packages and then confiscate the contents. It's ridiculous to think pet food is being treated like a national security risk but they got really sticky about this a couple of years ago to "protect" the CDN pet food industries and supposedly to ensure that any food being imported has been made according to some pretty stringent requirements that only the bigger name brands can afford to meet. So while in some ways it is comforting to know our pets are being protected from unscrupulous pet food companies, we also can't always get good quality specialty products that would help with medical situations such as diabetes. Young Again used to ship here but stopped because of the new regulations.
     
  38. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I had a lady on the FB diabetes group. Offer to send me samples of the Young again. I didn't feel comfortable with her sending it to me. My husband seems to think that there is a dry food here in Canada that is low carb for Molly. I told him that there isn't. I emailed my vet with what I have done in the past week with Molly. Decreasing her insulin etc... haven't heard back from him yet.

    I wish they had the dry food her for the kitties, maybe in time they will!
     
  39. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, Fancy Feast only comes in those small cans. I wasn't clear: Teasel eats Wellness brand pates and they come in both the 3 oz and 5.5 oz size. :)
     
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  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Even if you could get low carb dry food for Molly you'd want to limit the amount. Lack of water can contribute to urinary problems. The S/O food (wet and dry) has some acidifying agent in it to fight crystals so that's probably why you can get away with feeding dry S/O. The problem is that it's far too high in carbs for a diabetic and diabetes is a more immediate health concern for Molly. Diabetic cats also get dehydrated more easily because they tend to pee more. The extra glucose in their blood pulls water out of their tissues and it shows as more urine (and often more dilute urine). The kidneys have to work harder, especially when BG runs high. Cats are already prone to kidney problems as they get older.
     
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  41. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    No, I'm not getting low carb dry, I changed my mind on that. I will stick to the wet SO for now. Feed her the fancy feast she loves the fancy feast. Eventually I'm hoping she won't want any of the SO dry. I going through a can of the fancy feast a day, is that about right? for feeding?
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    One can of Fancy Feast is only somewhere around 90 to 100 calories depending on flavour so depending on Molly's size, one can would not be enough if that was all she was eating. You can calculate her calorie need by multiplying her weight in lbs. X 13.6 and then add 70 for total daily calorie need. If she needs to gain or lose weight, you'd calculate using her ideal weight instead of her current weight.
     
  43. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Ok, I feed her the wet SO for breakfast and a little kibble. For lunch she had fancy feast with freeze dried treats. For supper she'll have more fancy feast and kibble after her test. I only feed her 1/2 cup of dry a day for now. She lost 3 lbs before she was diagnosed with diabetes. It looks like she has gained weight. In December she weight 10lbs when she was at the vet. I feed her the tuna fancy feast said it was 0 carbs? if I was reading it right.
     
  44. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. Any of the FF pates are fine. It doesn't have to be 0% carbs - under 10% is recommended but lower than that is better - maybe 0 to 5 or 6%).
     
  45. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok so right now she is getting calories from the SO wet, the SO dry and the Fancy Feast so she should be fine. Most food gives some calorie information on the packaging so you can roughly calculate how many calories she is currently eating. If that is maintaining her weight and she looks good (right weight) then as you reduce the dry and wet SO, you just replace them with more Fancy Feast. My girl is about 16 to 18 lbs (got to weigh her again soon) and she went through almost 3 cans a day of Fancy Feast. The carbs and calories are not the same thing. It's possible to find food that is higher in calories but still low in carbs.
     
  46. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I find she’s more hungry today. Probably because we’ve been at work all day. I did my in the door test she’s 21.5. Her test went awesome she was really good.
     
  47. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm just seeing this now, Adrienne. I'm a bit unsure what to suggest about the dose because she's still getting about half her daily food ration in high carb S/O (wet plus dry for breakfast and some dry for supper) according to your post #43 above. How about keeping 1 u for today and I'll ask @MrWorfMen's Mom for her opinion.

    BTW - I was very glad to see your report of a BG test that went well. :)
     
  49. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Ok, that’s why I asked maybe eliminate the dry more or the SO wet, more FF?
    I also giver her a special treat after testing. I’ll attach a pic of it. 97E8772E-D183-4DC0-90CA-24ED5F661523.jpeg
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If the treat package says something about single ingredient protein or similar it could be OK. It looks to be one of those squeeze tubes of some sort of delicious (to Molly!) paste. I don't know the carb content of those but I suspect it's not zero. That's why we usually recommend plain freeze dried meat or fish treats that say "single ingredient" on the bag. Pure Bites brand is readily available in Pet Valu, Pet Smart, etc. Another treat you could make for her is a plain poached or roasted chicken breast (nothing added). When it's cooked cut it up into small treat sized pieces, freeze in small packages (enough for a day) and give those freely.

    Re what food to eliminate: you want to get rid of the highest carb food first and that's the S/O kibble. Next is the S/O wet food. You can feed as much wet Fancy Feast as she wants/needs because it's very low carb. The goal is to have her eating only low carb wet food for all her meals and getting only low/zero carb treats. That's the optimal feeding method to control her BG and to get the best insulin response from her on a lower dose than the S/O wet-dry food she was one for years.
     
  51. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Yes it's a paste, the lady at the pet store said it was low carb but I'll have to find out for sure. I do giver her the freeze dried treats she likes those. I'll try the chicken she loves chicken. This is my next dilemma is the dry food. She was a hungry kitty this morning. She had the SO wet, all the dry for today and FF. I'd like to eliminate the dry completely but I don't think we're ready yet :(
     
  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, Adrienne. Do what you can slowly. You read Linda's description of the trouble she had with her kitty and dry food. If you reduce the kibble slowly Molly will notice it less and learn to enjoy the Fancy Feast more.

    You and Molly are doing great! :)
     
  53. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I was thinking about Linda this morning, when I was feeding Molly her dry :cat:. But I was also thinking we've come along way already. The needles ( shot) I was so nervous doing that. I'm afraid of needles. Now Molly sits there and seems to know it's her medicine. Then the testing finally starting to get better with that both of us. Now it's to eliminate the dry! I think I may try that on the weekend ( it's a long weekend here). But next week I start a new job and my afternoon testing will be gone. I won't be home til an hour before her preshot. Not sure what to do about that?
     
  54. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If Molly is hungry chances are good that she will eat more wet food in place of the dry so don't be afraid to reduce down a bit every day even if only by a tsp or so and then half a tsp. until its gone. I used a coffee scoop to measure out a tiny bit of kibble when I was holding my transition standoffs with my girl. I think the hardest part of the transition for me was that look they give you like "come on Mom!" when the food in the dish isn't the usual. It pulls at your heart strings and it's tough to hold your ground but you have to remember you are doing it for Molly to keep her healthy.

    On the dosing side, perhaps the drop to 1u was a bit too much just yet. @Kris & Teasel what do you think about taking Molly up to 1.5u for now until the transition to all wet food is on the menu?
     
  55. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Yes, that's my problem she looks at her dish then up at me. Then I feel bad and give her the whole half cup. I'll start the 1.5 unit tonight? and start cutting back the dry more.
     
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  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I like Linda’s suggestion to try 1.5 u. I’m so pleased that this is becoming easier for you. :)
     
  57. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    :D I'm not so stressed like I have been!
     
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  58. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm also glad that you trust Linda and I to steer you in a good direction for Molly. :smuggrin:
     
  59. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    I want what's best for Molly. I'm happy to have you and Linda helping me.:joyful:
     
  60. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I see you increased the dose. :) Planning ahead: if you can get a few more tests this weekend it'll help us see how this 1.5 u dose is working so we know what to suggest next. When you start your new job and can't test in the afternoon, aim for a before bed test every day. If you can squeeze in an extra one in the AM before you leave for work it'll help too. Fill in the blanks a bit more on your days off.
     
  61. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Yes, She's staying at pink but she's not going up. So I guess that's a good sign? I'm off Friday til Monday so I can test her more throughout the day :). I noticed this morning she prefers the FF over the wet SO now. I mixed them together so she would eat it. My husbands worried where She's eating the FF now, that her crystals will come back :rolleyes:.
     
  62. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aim for at least one test in the +4 to +7 part of the cycle.

    I'm glad she likes Fancy Feast! Keep on with the food switch. Re crystals: get her accustomed to having Fancy Feast "soup" or tolerating as much water as possible in all her wet food meals. There's no guarantee she'll never have crystals but all wet food and more water go a long way to helping prevent that. It's also a question of risk/benefit. The high carb S/O is not good for a diabetic nor is the high BG level it causes along with the need for a high insulin dose. Running in high BGs is hard on Molly's whole body and her kidneys in particular. High BG levels put her at risk of developing ketones (if she isn't feeling well for any reason), a serious complication of diabetes. A flare of cystitis is less serious and can be treated fairly easily if it happens.

    Urinary issues in kitties are manageable as long as they don't show signs of being totally blocked. There are meds to give to get them through a flare and supplements that help a lot. In general female cats are far less likely to get blocked because of their anatomy. I'd stay focused on the low carb food switch going forward. :)

    Here are some good articles:
    https://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/feline-idiopathic-cystitis-fic
    http://www.thecatclinic.ca/uploads/new-medical-support-item/Feline Idiopathic Cystitis Client Handout.pdf?lbisphpreq=1
    The second article is the one my vet gave to me when Teasel started having his episodes many years ago. He doesn't get them anymore. At the time he had crystals in his urine too.
     
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  63. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Now I'm worried about the ketones where her BG is still high!
     
  64. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    No need to worry. Her BG will be coming down with the food change and proper dosing. I'm sorry if I scared you. I was referring to how she was doing previously when her food was keeping her red, pink and black even though the dose was getting awfully high. Notice I said "if she isn't feeling well for any reason". That's when the ketone risk goes up. I was trying to give you all the reasons why the food change was so important.

    Please read those articles on feline cystitis. My guess is that the symptoms described will be familiar to you. We always have to focus on the health condition that has a more serious impact on Molly. That's the diabetes so you want to give her the best chance to be healthy by managing it well first and foremost. The cystitis can be serious if a total blockage occurs but overall it's less serious and can be managed or alleviated completely. You'll see in the two articles that wet food and extra water are recommended along with other things. The meds that are mentioned are useful in a flare (if it happens) and I have experience using them.
     
  65. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She seems to be fine, plays everyday and chases me around. She was upset with me last night. I was testing her and she wan't cooperating. She went into her box and looked sad, but she slept down by my feet all night.
    I just hope that I'm putting enough water in with the wet food. It's soupy when I feed it to her. I read the articles on feline cystitis.
     
  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    She'll be fine and you'll be fine. You've made great progress already. :)
     
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  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I see the recent pink but don't worry about it. This is a process. If you can add in a before bed test it's good data to have (in addition to the PMPS of course!).
     
  68. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She ate an hour before. I wasn’t going to test her, but thought I would!
     
  69. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    All numbers are useful and it's more practice for you and Molly. :)
     
  70. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    In a red tonight ☹️
     
  71. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    As much as none of like seeing red numbers, that is really just within meter variance so overall, Molly had a pretty flat cycle today. No worries. Changes in dose don't show their full potential in the first cycles....it take up to 3 days to see what the increased dose will do for Molly. :)
     
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  72. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Another red this morning, what’s going on?
     
  73. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Try not to worry - I know I keep saying that. :) Individual high numbers aren't dangerous. It's long runs of high BG that aren't good.

    My guess is that somewhere in the time blocks where you have no test data she's dropped lower than her body is accustomed to (not necessarily really low) and the reds are a rebound from that. Another thing that can happen, especially with Lantus, is something members here call "new dose wonkiness". The BG becomes erratic for a few cycles after an increase but it settles eventually. Going from 1u to 1.5 u is a 50% increase in dose and that's substantial. Molly's body needs to adjust.

    The only way to uncover what's going on is to increase your testing frequency a bit. You've said you'll be off tomorrow to Monday. Are you off Monday too? This is an ideal time to finish up the food change if you can (or very close to it) and get more tests in at strategic times. Here's that basic testing routine again:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes This is where you want to get extra numbers in the +3 to +8 range (try +3 and +5 one day, +4 and +6 another day, +6 and +8 on a third day).
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture. A before bed test each day off is good data to have as well.
    I know this is more testing than you're used to but it's data we need to plan the next steps. A little pain for a big gain. ;)
     
  74. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Yes, I'm off tomorrow and Monday I'll do the testing in the time spots you have mentioned. But Tuesday I start my new Job and can only test. In the morning and evening preshots. I'm also going to get the new monitor where the strips are cheaper!
     
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  75. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Which BG meter are you going to get? You'll be glad you switched. You'll see the BG numbers on your SS drop because a human meter reads lower. It's a good psychological boost. @MrWorfMen's Mom and I know how to interpret them and you'll learn too.

    Once you're at your new job and can only do AM and PMPSs it'll be doubly important to get a before bed test every night and then fill in the gaps as I outlined in my post #73 above on your days off.

    How is the food transition going? We need to know that to figure out safe dosing for Molly.
     
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  76. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    I think it's the freestyle monitor? @MrWorfMen's Mom had mentioned. If you have the coupon and buy the strip. You receive the monitor for free. Going to pick it up tomorrow or tonight. I'll need help understanding the numbers.
    So three times a day when i'm working test her and more on my days off.
    The food is up and down- This morning for example, fed her SO wet and a little kibble out of the 1/2 cup. She was still looking for food. Gave her FF and dried treats, still looking for food dumped the rest of her dish with the remaining half cup of kibble.
    She loves her dry food! I know I have to do what's best for her. But I just feel so bad
     
  77. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, it's the Freestyle Lite monitor I think. I use that and so does Linda. Do you have a 55 or older friend who could buy your strips for you at Shoppers Drug Mart today? Thursdays are Seniors' Day here in Ontario - 20% off on the strips. Failing that try Walmart for strips. All strips are pricey in Canada but not as awful as the AT strips.

    Yes, try following the testing routine as closely as you can. Data helps us keep Molly safe.

    Keep working at the food switch. The half cup of kibble is still boosting her BG I think. When it's gone we'll have a true picture of what the 1.5 u dose can do.
     
  78. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    I don't know anyone over the age of 55. But I'll shop around first. I'm almost out of the AT strips $100 is alot of money for 50 strips. But now I have the monitor :confused:. I'm going to try to cut back more on the kibble tomorrow.
     
  79. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    If you have a Walmart try their pharmacy. They're usually cheaper. The box of 100 Freestyle Lite strips is about $90 at Shoppers. Pricey but less than half the cost of AT strips.
     
  80. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    100 Freestyle Lite strips was about $79.00 last time I stocked up at Walmart. :)
     
  81. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Hang in there! I see those reds. Did she get more of the S/O wet or the kibble today?
     
  82. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She only had SO wet this morning. Kibbles this morning. FF at lunch and for supper. She finished the kibble after her shot. She had nothing to eat after her afternoon shot. I don’t get it?
     
  83. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Goes to pink to red I don’t understand
     
  84. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Sometimes we get NDW...new dose wonkiness for a day or so. Let's just hold the course and see what Molly does tomorrow. It might be better if you could give Molly 1/4 cup kibble in the morning and then the other 1/4 cup in the evening spreading it over the day more. Also if Molly is only eating twice daily, giving her a snack in between those main meals might help smooth out her BG. If you don't have a feeder, then freezing some canned food that you can leave out for her when you are out at work etc. or in bed, will give her something to munch on in between main meals. I used an ice cube tray to freeze some canned food when I knew I wouldn't be home to feed snacks mid cycle. It will thaw out slowly and be available for Molly several hours after her shot.
     
  85. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Ok, I thought maybe I’d put some wet out before I go to bed tonight? I also was thinking when I’m not going to be home at lunch. To put some in the fridge. My husband and feed her on his lunch. How much of the frozen do you put out? Can you use the feeder for wet food?
     
  86. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, you can use a feeder for wet food. I don't use a feeder so I can't advise but other members do this. Without a feeder you could leave a frozen ice cube sized chunk (or even two chunks) of wet out for her. She might nibble on them slowly as they thaw. Yes, put out some low carb wet food for her when you go to bed.

    You're off the next four days as you've said so this is a great time to experiment with between meal snacks of low carb wet food. It's best to avoid those snacks after about +6 or+7 because they can cause the insulin dose's effect to be lessened toward the end of the cycle.

    Today is also a good day to make a point of getting some key tests in. I suggest you try out that plan I described in my post #73 above. Continue with the plan tomorrow and Sunday. Based on those numbers @MrWorfMen's Mom and I will decide on the dose.

    Let us know when you're going to start using a human meter. We'll help you understand its readings. I know the increased testing has been a little hard for you but it's showing you how she responds to the insulin, if she's too high, if she's dropped low, what effect her food is having, etc.
     
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  87. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She was fussy this morning on her wet food, I gave her SO ate a little. Tried the salmon FF ate a little. Tried the tuna she ate more of that, and of course her kibble.
    Yes more testing today, I have a lot of running around to do. But will get the testing done
     
  88. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    How is she feeling overall, food fussiness aside?
     
  89. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She’s good playing and finished eating her food.
     
  90. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Here's a little pep talk, Adrienne: ;)

    You're barely two weeks into this new phase of treating Molly's diabetes and look how far you've come! You've gotten over the testing hurdle, you're switching Molly's food to something better for a diabetic, you've learned more about her response to Lantus and will continue to learn about that. Your confidence level has increased and that's a major factor in reducing the stress associated with treating diabetes in your girl.

    It's a good idea to reflect on these things again and again. You'll continue to encounter anxiety provoking situations but they'll be less and less scary over time. You'll also get proficient at making dosing decisions for yourself if you can't get a response here on the forum. One of the biggest sources of fear and anxiety we see here among new members is not knowing what's going on with their kitty. They follow what the vet recommends and sometimes that works but it often leads to poor BG control or worse, a serious hypo episode. That saying that "knowledge is power" is so very true when it comes to looking after our kitties. :)
     
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  91. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    When I suspected Molly had diabetes. I didn’t realize all the stress that came with it. I have no experience with diabetes. I don’t know of anyone or a cat that has had it. I just thought I’d give her, her shot and that was it. Didn’t realize the dosage or the food or the testing. Would have such a big impact. I tried to reach out here in my hometown and only one lady messaged me. I did a search on Feline diabetes and found myself here. I was frustrated and felt some of the members weren’t very supportive. I’m so happy that you Kris and Linda are helping me. I do still have my days where I get frustrated. But not as bad as it has been. My vet must’ve given up on me. He never called me back or emailed me. My gut feeling was telling me that 5 units and 6 units was just too much. To only test her once a week. Not to change her food.
    I’m so happy and glad that I took your advice. But I still have questions!
     
  92. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You can certain use your vet for any other kitty health issues. I suspect he just doesn't know what to suggest about insulin dosing and probably doesn't have a ton of experience with it. He's probably more familiar with treating urinary issues in cats because they're much more common. In Teasel's pre-diabetic days when he was having a lot of cystitis flares one of the vets I saw in the large practice I use put him on the S/O food and said he'd have to be on it for life. When he was diagnosed with diabetes the vet I see most often (who isn't an expert but has more of an interest in diabetes than the other vets there) told me that his food needed to be changed to low carb wet food immediately.

    I too had no experience with feline diabetes and was completely stunned when Teasel was diagnosed. I tried to follow my fairly knowledgeable vet's instructions for 8 months before joining FDMB. I came here because what I was doing wasn't getting his BG under good control. I just bit the bullet, made my peace with multiple daily BG tests, learned why my very tricky cat wouldn't follow my vet's methods and the rest is history.

    I'm glad we've been able to help. You'll always have questions - very normal. Somewhere along the way you'll get to a point where you can figure out more of it on your own and that's a great feeling. The forum is always here too. :smuggrin:
     
  93. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Something I should have asked a while ago: I see that Molly has asthma. Do you treat it with anything like an inhaler? Was she ever put on steroid meds for it?

    OMG! I should have checked your SS earlier. Look at that beautiful sunny yellow AMPS!! :D
     
  94. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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  95. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Yes, she uses an inhaler has a chamber for it. The inhaler in Flovent, I have asthma too and use the same one. We share lol. But I haven’t heard her cough in a very long time. I only give her inhaler when I hear her cough.
    She’s sleeping now do I wake her up to test?
    Yes, I was waiting for you to mention the yellow this morning
     
  96. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    That's good info. It seems that she isn't getting a steroid puff from the inhaler very often. I asked because steroids can raise BG but that's more of an issue for kitties getting them daily in pill form or for a kitty that needs inhaler puffs often. I use a Flovent inhaler too. ;)

    Please wake her up for that test. Will it be the +3 test? With that yellow this Am it's important information about how the dose is working.
     
  97. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    She got up and I tested her. She’s eating FF now! Yes the 3+ test when is the next one +7? I could go read and find out.

    Ok at +5 is the next one.
     
  98. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Holy Moly!! Look at that blue! I'm glad she's eating to slow the drop. Don't worry - she'll be fine. Please do the next test earlier at +4 because we need to track the progress of this dose more closely. Sometimes more testing is needed. :)
     
  99. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    When I said "to slow the drop" I mean that her BG has gone down quite a lot in the first three hours after the dose. That's what we call an "active cycle" where kitty is responding more dramatically to the insulin. Giving food puts more glucose (from the food) into her bloodstream for the insulin to act on and prevent her BG from getting too low.

    You're using an AT meter and the so-called "take action" number is 3.8 on it. If she hits 3.8 then you give a snack of higher carb food. Your wet S/O is perfect for that. I'd avoid the dry because it can be a little harder to control the BG properly with it. This whole process of using snacks to control the BG is called "steering with food". Keep the snacks quite small - no more than a tablespoon because you sometimes have to give a few and you don't want to fill the kitty up.

    I'm so glad you're getting this experience while you're off because you'll likely worry about what will happen when you're at work again. With 4 days to figure this out @MrWorfMen's Mom and I will come up with what we think will be a safe dose.

    Welcome to the world of better BG numbers - exciting but stressful!
     
  100. Adrienne & Molly

    Adrienne & Molly Member

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    Jan 18, 2019
    Oh boy, she ate her 1/4 cup of kibble this morning. I’m surprised to see her BG that low. When I seen that number I got a little worried! Ok I’ll test the +4 and when would the next one be? I have to run out to for errands.
     

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