Help Please, totally clueless

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Nalasmum, Oct 1, 2017.

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  1. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Hi, quick run down, we are on 1 unit of Lantus twice a day started yesterday afternoon - so 3 doses so far
    yesterday blood test showed
    GLU -30.9 (550)
    BUN - 17.3 (306)
    CRE -156 (1.76)
    PHOS - 1.3 (23.4)

    Nala had an operation 4 weeks ago to remove a cancerous lump in her whiskers and she also had a tooth removed, after the op they said her bloods showed elevated creatine and that she had onset kidney disease and i would have to feed her the new food, which of course i brought , took her home (cone on head) and away we went... She was at this point 4.6kgs kinda plump for an elderly abyssinian. But happy, mobile, eating well.
    2 weeks ago i notice her weight dropping, she was not eating enough so started her one the renal wet food, still not keen, until yesterday I took her back to the vet where he basically said, oh this is sad (3.8kgs) what do you want me to do for her?? I said help her, he said he didn't have a magic wand?wt..?.. he asked me if i wanted to do bloods, yes please, lets get to the bottom of this. Above are the results, he said we needed to discuss the results and told me she has diabetes, he said her glucose test 4 weeks ago was at 12 (216) so they didn't think anything was amiss there.

    So now she still won't eat much,she wobbly on her legs, lethargic... I'v gone to the get food in her, after reading lots of online.... Tanyas pages and here about how they can actually just starve.
    She has had a bit of Tuna, alot of tuna water, some kitten fancy feast, But not alot of anything...

    My vet never suggested checking her bloods at home to get the curve, he didn't mention much at all. just inject her twice a day. Ive figured out its every 12 hours.

    Gah... shes so old.... kidneys, diabetes, not eating.... I'm not sure what to do, keep feeding her tasty food till we see the vet on Wednesday... when should she start to feel better??

    Thanks for reading my novel
     
  2. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    How old is Nala? It's really important to get enough food into her; cats can quickly develop hepatic lipidosis, which is expensive to treat and can be fatal. She is also at risk of hypoglycemia. I strongly recommend home testing her glucose levels. She could also run the risk of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which I'm sure you have read about if you've been to Tanya's site (an awesome site!). Does she seem nauseated when you give her food; does she lick her lips like she's hungry but doesn't eat? Your vet can prescribe meds for nausea if that's a problem. He can also prescribe an appetite stimulant. If you can't get her to eat cat food you can try baby food, just make sure it has NO onion or garlic in it. You could also try baking or boiling up a chicken breast and seeing if she'd eat that. You can try putting toppings on her food, too; I crush up low-carb snacks and put it on my guys' food, I've used bonito flakes, FortiFlora, anything that might encourage eating. Some people have used a little sprinkle of oregano or parmesan cheese. If you can't get her to eat more than just a little bit please don't wait until Wednesday to see the vet! Take her as soon as they open Monday! And please buy a glucose meter and test her before you give her another insulin shot - the lethargy and wobbliness concern me that she may be hypoglycemic. I don't mean to frighten you but this is a situation that could become very bad, very fast, and I hope having this information can help you prevent that from happening.
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    If she won't eat on her own you could try some cerenia for nausea... But you may just have to assist feed her. Water down pate, put it in a feeding syringe and feed her that way. If cats don't eat enough they develop fatty liver disease. So sorry she isn't feeling well.
     
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  4. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Helen's welcome post says she is 21.
     
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  5. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Morning from over here.
    Nala will be 18 in January.
    she is eating this morning and had eaten what was in her bowl over night, chicken fancy feast and has perked up alot !! now to get a Glucose reader. I don't think are are sold so readily down here so i will get hunting.

    Thank you for your replies, this site is wonderful. I have been very tearful since the diagnosis and being in the dark didn't help. But this page definitely does!
     
  6. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 18, 2016
    From my googling and going by the fact that the Canadian dollar is roughly the same as the NZ dollar, there are a few here. http://www.pharmacydirect.co.nz/Blood-Glucose-Meters-1/
    You want a meter that takes the smallest amount of blood (0.3) and also you want to know the price of the test strips. In some countries, they can be expensive (there is a huge price difference between the US and Canada, for instance). Cost is a factor. You will be going through far more strips than you think. Carsense seems to have the cheapest strips but need a .05µL drop of blood.

    There is also https://www.mediray.co.nz/diabetes/...optium-neo-meter-kit-ms-71364-80/#productTabs which requires 0.6 drop of blood.

    I'm tagging @Bron and Sheba @Girlie's mom @monty_dweezil @Myrtlesmum who live in Australia in case they have used the above models.
     
  7. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Thank you for the quick reply. I have a friend with a diabetic son. she said the chemist sells the meters and she could give me some strips..(Maybe they get the cheaper thru persciption i wonder if the insulin is cheaper thru human methods too). so thats good. i'll go and get one soon. on my way to buy more fancy feast chicken which she seems to be enjoying. she does has renal problems to, so unsure about the diet change, but better to be alive to treat than starved and dead?
    Im going to buy some iams white meat chicken as this seems to have the best low levels of phosphorus (Renal problems) and carbs compared to others from a food chart i found on her.
    OK will get back on here after i have managed to test her hopefully.
     
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  8. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Nala can't tell you but if he's feeling pain that might make him miserable and not wanting to eat. That means more drugs though (Noah is on serious pain meds). Glad to have you here, hope things get better soon.
     
  9. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Oops, sorry, the welcome post initially said 21 at present, and I thought that was her age. :D
     
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  10. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi and welcome.
    I live in Sydney Aust.
    You should have no problem buying a glucose meter from the chemist in NZ.
    I used the Abbott Optium and found it very good. The newer version of that now is the Optium Neo. Strips for those can be bought fairly cheaply on eBay. Whatever you buy, make sure you can get the test strips at a reasonable cost. The chemist price is always expensive but eBay prices are about half those at the chemist.
    If you have a friend who can get some subsidised strips for you that would be great. I would check if she can and then I would get a meter the same as she has as you need to use specific strips for specific meters. You can't swap them around and use one lot of strips for a different brand meter.

    Fancy Feast food is high in phosphorus so I would be looking for a different food if Nama has kidney issues.
    The most important thing is to get her to eat at the moment so once things settle down, I would look for lower phosphorus foods.

    I am surprised your vet did not follow up on Nala's blood glucose level of 12. That is not in the normal range. He should have had you come back in a week to recheck it in case it was only up because of the operation.
    I am surprised at his attitude about what he can do for her. Diabetes is very treatable.
    Are you happy with that vet? It might be worthwhile looking for a vet who is interested in helping Nala.
    If there is anything I can help you with please tag me and I will be only too happy to help
    Bron
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  11. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Oh no, foreigners. What should we do? Ssshhh Wait, I'm a foreigner too!
     
  12. Myrtlesmum

    Myrtlesmum Member

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    Apr 13, 2017
    Welcome Nala's mum, sorry for my late reply but I just saw that I was tagged. I haven't used any of the above glucose meters - I use the Accu-check performa - strips are approx $49 per 100. The meter was free - I just had to have the pharmacist register me on some diabetic list (although I assured him that the meter wasn't for me but the cat - he didn't seem to care) - apparently if you're over 50 years old in Australia, you're entitled to a glucose meter - not sure if it's the same in NZ though? Anyway, the Accu-check works well, I don't know how big a drop it needs in mls but it doesn't seem to be too big and I can usually get enough out of Myrtle's ear.
     
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  13. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Love the AccuChek because of the microscopic amount of blood needed.
     
  14. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Hi Bron, thanks for the reply, just saw it.
    we got a careSens N, the vet said a few people had recommended it, so I have now done my first curve.
    When the vet was being dismissive, we didn't even know she had Diabetes, So Imagine his suprise when she came back with a BG of 30!, and then we went forward with the treatment plan.
    I went back yesterday they did a urine, no Ketones which was great Cause shes at such high levels i was quite worried, Kidneys not fantastic so they are really pushing trying to get the wet renal food into her, I will mix it with the fancy feast, yes not great phos levels, :( But she has put on 800g in 5 days!

    So Onwards we have upped her Units to 1.5 today... will see what happens

    I might ask the vets about the other people there with Diabetic Cats and If they want to have a chat.
     
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  15. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    I eneded up getting the CareSens, thank you for the info! Spreadsheet up and running !
     
  16. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Can I make a suggestion? I think people are still posting medical advice on your Welcome To thread. If so you should post something there saying you've moved on.
    And if not? I had a kind of episode (???) last night so I really need a nap. Hi Nala. :bighug:
     
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  17. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 3, 2016
    Nalasmum, I deem you to be no longer clueless. There are no rules about where you post and how often, keep one topic per thread is a general guideline. I might have three going at once in Feline Health; food, litter, meds for example. Some members will gravitate to a forum specific to their insulin while others feel the need to post ad nauseam about everything in Off Topic. I can't think of who that member might be right now, hmmm.
     
  18. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Hi, yay!! no longer Clueless!! thankyou :) Hope i did the right thing yesterday by putting the update on the info thread? I've never stepped into a Forum before.
    I do have a thread running in Lantus, about all the lows we got yesterday.
     
  19. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Hi, thanks for the reply,

    Yip got meter - Tick
    have 2 curves in place yay!!
    Had a better vet - on Thursday... probably doesn't help that i tend to cry as soon as i walk into the examining room. :cat: I think she was in such a state when i took her in last saturday the vet was actually asking if i wanted to put her down..... I didn't take that hint very well. :nailbiting:

    I have a thread going over in Lantus about her low numbers yesterday, kind of similar to one of your a while ago. (yes I have been having a good trawl thru) Thanks again for replying!
     
  20. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Did you get the ketones tested at the vet?
    It is very easy and a lot less expensive to test them yourself.
    You just need to go to the chemist and ask for a bottle of Ketostix .....they are about $10 for a bottle of 50 or 100 test strips. All you need to do is collect some of Nana's urine and dip the strip in and read....I think it is in 15 seconds. Just read the bottle for instructions.
    It is a good idea to have a bottle at home and test frequently while Nala is in high numbers.
     
  21. Nalasmum

    Nalasmum Member

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    Sep 30, 2017
    Hi, yes the vet tested for Ketone, there where none! Nala uses the cat door and pees outside somewhere so not easy to collect a sample, amazing how the vets just stick the needle straight into the bladder

    she jumped into the low numbers.... well yesterday, I have a thread going in the Lantus Page
     
  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Wow yeah nice numbers
     
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