help re BG levels dropping after eating... still dropping

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Michele & Theo, Jul 12, 2019 at 8:33 PM.

  1. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2019
    Theo's BG levels are suddenly dropping after he eats. Looking at his SS, for the last week, I have not given him any insulin in the evening because his levels are too low. His morning levels are higher but not that bad. In consultation with the vet we lowered his dose earlier this week to 3.0 IU, but when he was consistently low in the evening I lowered it to 2.5IU. I did this partly because I am travelling and someone is coming in to feed and dose him. I will speak to my vet when I get back early next week.

    However in the last two days (I left yesterday morning) his evening glucose levels drop even after he eats... has anyone else seen this? I will note that his food intake has gone down, but that is to be expected with lower BG levels. He is acting normal from what I'm told... not lethargic.

    He is a picky eater, but I do have kibble (DM) which I can give him (he loves kibble, but hasn't had any for weeks now).

    thoughts??? advice???
    Michele
     
  2. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    U was just told by the individual watching him that it his BF has dropped to 4.1 at PMPS +2....yet he has been nibbling at his food constantly.
    Wondering if it is time to give him some kibble
     
  3. Peacock

    Peacock Member

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    Mar 4, 2019
    Hi Michele,

    I am not a dosing expert by any stretch, but I am a ProZinc user who reads the boards a lot, and am just checking in to say I am following along.

    I think the answer about what to feed depends on whether or not the catsitter is available to hang out with Theo.

    From what I have read, they should keep feeding low carb unless Theo goes a bit lower.
     
  4. Peacock

    Peacock Member

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    Mar 4, 2019
  5. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    Hi Peacock,
    She us staying at my house and I've asked her to take another test shirtly... if it is lower, I will likely tell her too give him some kibble. I really would rather the levels go up a bit rather than drop more
     
  6. Peacock

    Peacock Member

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    Mar 4, 2019

    That is reassuring. I had visions of someone who had just stopped by to feed and dose.
     
  7. Panic

    Panic Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    I'm still new to all of this so not 100% comfortable giving advice, but my girl dropped as low as Theo is now the other night...members recommended feeding more low carb food and retesting in a half hour to see if BG goes up.
     
  8. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    She just told me that his level dropped again to 3.6... I told her to give him some kibble and retest in 1/2 hour or so.
     
  9. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2019
    Hi Panic
    his level dropped again... to 3.6... so I asked the person watching him to give him some of the DM kibble which will hopefully bring his levels up... I am a 10 hour drive away.. so this is nerve wracking to say the least.
     
  10. CandyH and Catcat

    CandyH and Catcat Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    might not be a bad idea to add a few drops of Karo or honey or real syrup (not the artificial stuff) to his wet food -- the kibble takes awhile to become effective, takes longer to digest, obviously this continued drop is worrisome -- the high-glucose will stop the drop for just a short time, but may be enough to stop that troughing; not an experienced member, just survived a couple of near-hypos while on Vetsulin

    Theo is so delicious, my heart goes out to all of you
     
    Tanya and Ducia likes this.
  11. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    @Michele & Theo

    no insulin = no Hypo even if numbers are low.
    Is the SpeadSheet up to the hour?
    Give a minute to have a look I brb.
    Hold on to the High carbds just yet, please.
     
  12. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    I'm waiting to hear what the +4 level is.. I'm travelling and have someone taking care of him.. I already told her to give him some kibble....
     
  13. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    it's ok, you did the right thing under the circumstance. The numbers are going to be up for a while because as @CandyH and Catcat said the dry takes longer to reach the bloodstream and affect the BG, but in the same fashion it'll take longer to leave the system completely than wet food.
    The important thing is that if there is no dose there won't be Hypo.
    The low numbers you are looking at right now can be explained by either longer that usual ProZinc duration - it is not unheard of that it lasts up to 14-15 hours but it is rare.
    Another explanation I thought of was in your saying that the BG goes down after meal. When pancreas starts to recover it throws a little of its own insulin which is very good thing btw because it means the pancreas is not completely damaged and tries to "revive" itself, so to speak. There maybe other reason but the main thing the cat is safe and is in good - enviable in fact numbers for right now.
    Do not be surprised if the +4 comes out high - the kibbles do send them up high. It'll pass.
    :)
     
    CandyH and Catcat likes this.
  14. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    thanks.. so what if his levels continue to drop? I have tried calling her and there is no answer which has me worried....I'm a wreck waiting to hear.
    should we reduce his dose even more?
     
  15. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    it won't.
    Post the +4 and will figure out what's next.
    I'll wait here.
    the cat is safe. Truly. Try not to worry.:)
    I use different insulin and cannot advise on the dosing.
    reducing while you are aay may be good idea but let see what next number(s) are like.
    Do you post in ProZinc Forum? I'd ask about the dosage over there but, again, they too are going to need to see more test.
     
  16. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    Ok... but I can't get a hold of her.. it is late here (nearing midnight) and she may have gone to bed after I told her to give him kibble as she has to work in the morning.... I've tried calling and texting.. no response.

    I have posted in the Prozinc Forum, but not recently as we (Vet and I) decided earlier this week to reduce his dose from 3.5 to 3. I decided to lower it to 2.5 since he had had so many days where his evening PMPS was so low (after talking with the vet) ...but this is the first time his values continued to go lower after he ate...

    gonna be a long night for me unless she gets back to me soon
     
  17. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    the kibble will get the BG up, probably for longer (and higher) that you would have liked it.
    Try to get good rest - no insulin no Hypo.
    What is your arrangement with the caretaker for tomorrow?
    Will you communicate before she administered the AM dose? Or will she just shot the preset dose?
     
  18. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    I think the red 911 flag can go down now.
    We may not hear about the +4 and the kibble will get the BG up.
    People will be worrying if the 911 is up but no further posts.
    3.6 was low but safe number - the non diabetic cat levels.
     
  19. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    thanks
    i hope she will contact me first. I will also send a text to move the dose to 2 instead of 2.5.. She knows not to dose unless he is above 12.. I'd rather have him a bit high til I get home on Mon night,


    ... i will remove the 911 suffix.
    thx for the help and calming words. I will post when I get more info
     
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  20. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    wise words!
    I'll hang around for a little on the Forum and will check in later to see if there is any updates in the SS.
    But with kibble in the picture and no dosing you are fine.
     
    CandyH and Catcat likes this.
  21. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    thx..although not likely to hear anything til morning. I would think that she would have contacted me if he wasn't eating or interested in the kibble when she gave it to him (i told her to give 1/2 cup of kibble) ... but he loves his kibble so I don't think that is a problem (he was a kibble only eater til he became diabetic). She did note that he was acting normally... the caretaker is a Vet tech, but only recently graduated, so likely not dealt with this issue before. I sure am glad that she is staying at the house overnight!
     
  22. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    i would think so too.
    They both probably in bed by now and all will be well.
     
  23. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    quick question re BG levels and colors coding of SS... what is the range or color that would be normal or what we strive for with the insulin? I could not find any discussion on the levels on the SS and what they mean or why they were chosen. I've never been sure if optimum levels in a diabetic cat should be the medium green or blue?
     
  24. Panic

    Panic Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Non diabetic levels are roughly 70 - 130 :)
     
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  25. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    to get our cats in the exact level of BG that Theo was having this PM cycle everyday.
    I would cut my left hand Pinky off if it would make my Ducia be like he was today everyday.
    Honestly - the numbers are so perfect!

    The non diabetic cats usually run 50 - 80 in the US numbers or about 2.8-4.5 World system;
    I know a cat in remission (off insulin) who regularly run below 2.8.
    These # are ideal. Once a cat is in Green numbers for 2 weeks the OTJ trial is suggested.

    The range of 50-120 US or 2.8-6.7 World is where we want our cats to be.

    ETA: the above numbers are for the human meter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 12:17 AM
    Reason for edit: clarific.
  26. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    me again...
    Thx, I do use a human meter.

    Where do I find info on the OTJ trial? I could not find anything in the Forum but may have missed it as there is sooooo much good info here!!
     
  27. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    When you are back from VACA you
    it is in one of the yellow starred Sticky notes at the top of the Lantus Forum.
    The rules are different I suppose for the ProZ users.

    Here is something I want to post from the ProZ protocol (fits what you were dealing with lately to the letter):

    ---If one preshot is above 200 and shootable, and one preshot is too low to shoot, it probably means the dose is a little too high and lasting more than the usual 12 hours. Try reducing by at least .25 to see if you get two shootable preshot numbers (ideal) rather than one that is too high and one that is too low to shoot (not ideal) http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.109077/

    So no word from the sitter so far? I am sure they are just asleep.
    Do ask her to reduce the dose tomorrow and let's hope she won't have to skip the PM shot again.
    It's getting late here and unless I can help with anything I am going to bed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 1:06 AM
    Michele & Theo likes this.
  28. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    @Michele & Theo
    Good morning,
    good to see all went well last night!
    Fingers crossed the new dose will turn out fine and BID shootable.:)
     
  29. Michele & Theo

    Michele & Theo Member

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    Apr 11, 2019
    thanks... at least we have a strategy to follow tonight if we get the same pattern.
    He ate only half of the kibble that was put out and was eating his regular wet food this morning. I told her to remove the kibble and only leave wet for the day.

    thanks again for all your help last evening...
     

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