? Help? Turner PMPS: 90 +.5:93, +1:92, +1.5:77, +2:117, +2.5:130, +3:145, +4:169, +5:200

We're away from the house all day Wednesdays, so we don't have any midpoint numbers. Turner seems to be fine though, so I don't think he took any kind of nose dive. This is, however, a lower PS number than we're used to for sure. I'm reading through the shooting lower numbers sticky. Looks like we should probably be ok... Do I go ahead with the shot as usual?

Thanks for your help!

Link to yesterday

 

The good news is that I need to be up late working anyways, so I can pretty easily get some numbers from the PM cycle

 

Adding that we use an alphatrack! So I think this would be a lower number on a human meter

 

That is a lower number than you have shot before from what I can see. With using the AT2 meter remember the "take action" number is 68. The low preshot could be from the dose increase you did this morning.


I hesitate about giving dosing advice, but if it were MY kitty I might drop it back to 4.5 units and monitor closely, being prepared for a late night possibly. That is only my opinion and hopefully others will weigh in with more advice.

 

Yep. It's lower than we've shot before. We did a 125 about a week ago and that's the lowest we've done

 

If you have lots of strips and a good hypo kit you could consider shooting 4.5 units. I tend to err on the safe side so that is just my opinion. You have enough data that you have a good handle on how Turner responds to the insulin.


ETA I am going to tag @BJM and get another opinion.

 

I already fed and probably shouldn't have so that I could have seen for sure where his numbers were going :/ I think I'm pretty comfortable with doing the 4.5

 

I'll wait another minute and see if anyone pops in Thanks for your help @Tuxedo Mom

 

With having already fed, there is no way to stall and retest. Let's see if you can get another opinion on the dosing. However it is best for you to be comfortable with what you give.

 

Yep. Lesson learned. I should read these stickies before doing ANYTHING else

 

Just to be on the safe side I would get a +1 testing as well as the usual +2 and +3.

 

7:30 - 90
8:00 4.5u given
8:30 - 93

 

How long ago did he have his meal?

 

Right after the test at 7:30. So 7:30 test, eat

 

@smilelari ....the PS number is always the number you actually shoot

With Lantus, it's not so important that they eat 30 minutes before the shot....just that they're willing to eat. Older, harsher insulins were different....they needed that food "on board" 30 minutes before so that when those insulins "hit", they had something to work on

With Lantus, it's onset isn't usually for a few hours after the shot, so what we usually recommend is that you test/feed/shoot all in about 5-10 minutes (takes me about 3-5 minutes total to Test/Feed/Shoot)

As long as they're "willing" to eat, it's not so important that they eat as much ...as long as they're not sick or something and refusing to eat

Hope Turner will surf safely tonight for you, but you've still probably got a pretty long night ahead of you!

 

OK Thanks,

So the 8:30 test is 1 hour after eating but only 1/2 hour after the shot?

 

Yep

 

That is not much of a food spike. Usually an hour after eating the numbers will be higher from the food. And with only 1/2 hour since the shot, this could be a very active cycle. I would be retesting in 1/2 hour when it is +1 since shot.

 

That's what we normally do. Tonight we tested and before we had time to process the number he was eating and then I wasn't sure what to do with the lower than usual number

If he were unwilling to eat, I'd be super worried. He's very food motivated, lol

 

Thank goodness for food motivated kitties. I have one doing a dive tonight , but luckily he is ALWAYS ready to eat.

 

One hour post shot is 92

 

Good luck with your kitty! Off to view your thread

 

With a +1 hour basically the same at the preshot test this will most likely be a busy cycle. You could give a bit of regular food to get some extra food on board. I would even suggest doing a +1.5 test to catch any dropping early

 

If you look at Tuxie's spreadsheet do not look at the dosing. He is also a Cushing's kitty and I do dosing and changes different because of that.

 

Oh god. +1.5 is 77

Do I start with some high carb food?

 

I would give a Tsp+ of HC food and retest in about 20 minutes

 

It looks like his nadir is around +6-+7 so this could be a long night. Do you have lots of test strips, HC food and syrup on hand?

 

Also can you keep the spreadsheet and title updated. I will stay as long as I can but I am at 20 hours up right now so if someone else comes to help it would be best to have all current information.


@Marje and Gracie Are you going to be around for awhile in case I can't stay awake??

 

Yes

Yes I do. Luckily just got 2 new bottles of strips

 

Good. Turner's numbers are still in a safe range right now, but it is very early in the cycle so you may be doing a lot of testing. Make sure not to give too much food, since you may have to be feeding him mre often to keep the numbers up. You ideally want to keep the numbers at 68 or higher with the AT2 meter.

 

Have you read through the sticky for dealing with hypos? I will stay as long as I can and try to find someone else if I have to leave but you need to know the steps if Turner starts to drop too low.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Remember that the numbers in the hypo sticky are for a human meter which reads lower than the AT2 meter. So your goal is to keep the numbers at or above 68. First approach is high carb food. If that is not keeping the numbers above 68 then you would give a 1/4-1/2 tsp syrup. Since Turner is food motivated you could mix the syrup in with a bit of food. If the numbers are low or still dropping you need to do these steps again and retest every 20 minutes until the numbers stabilize or rise.


ETA Even if the numbers seem to rise you will still need to continue monitoring since syrup will bring numbers up fast but also wears off fast. High carb food will last longer but will also wear off.

 

Just tested and he's at 117. Maybe this won't be so rough after all

 

I have. I'll need to re-read it a few times tonight though. Thanks for your help. I'll keep testing and see where we go

 

OK good to see the numbers are not still dropping. What have you given him since the last test...just HC food or did you give any syrup? Even if you only gave the food the effects of the high carb food will wear off after about an hour. In the meantime the Lantus is still kicking in so the numbers may very well still drop more. The last test is only at +2 and the nadir seems to be around +6 or +7 so there are still a number more hours that the levels can be dropping. I would give another teaspoon+ of high carb and retest in 1/2 hour.

 

@Wendy&Neko Wendy are you able to stay around for awhile? I have been up for 20 hours and am not sure how much longer I can stay and it is still early in the cycle/

 

Larissa

Can you update your spreadsheet to make it easier for anyone else coming in to help. Thanks

RECAP:

PMPS 90
+1-92
+1.5-77 HC given
+2- 117

 

Just the high carb food

And spreadsheet has been updated

I plan to be up and testing until we get to the nadir for sure. Want to keep the furbaby safe.

 

Thanks for updating. Right now there is no one else on that could help, but I will be up another hour. My kitty is still hanging in lower numbers so I need to monitor him a bit more.

You will need to retest again at +2.5. This is the time when the effects of the Lantus should be really kicking in so as the high carn wears off the numbers could drop.

 

Looks like Turner is pretty responsive to the HC food...that's good data to know!

I'll check in on you when I can for the next about hour, but my internet keeps cutting out on me and I can't guarantee I'll be around

 

@Chris & China Chris will you be around for awhile in case Larissa needs more help?


I just tagged you as you were posting. Thanks for dropping by Chris. I am monitoring one of my kitties with low numbers so I will be up about another hour also

 

As much as I can Mary Ann

Living in the middle of nowhere has it's advantages, but reliable internet service isn't one of them

I'll also watch for others than might be online that can keep an eye out later on if nobody responds to the earlier tags

 

Thanks Chris I have been checking to see who is on but the couple of people I tagged earlier didn't respond. It is sort of a quiet night right now.

 

Larissa

Have you done another test for the +2.5 ?

 

+2.5 = 130

I gave him high carb food at 1.5 and haven't given anything else yet. He seems to be rising still. More food?

 

We were posting at the same time

 

That is good. Turner responds well to high carb food. But it is still early in the cycle. You could give a tsp of regular food and retest in 1/2 hour. If the number is still the same or higher then you could wait an hour without feeding before the next test.


ETA It seems the +4 to +7 time period is where most of the dropping numbers are.

 

More food given

 

Ok..let's see what Turner is going to show us in 1/2 hour at +3

 

Well you are getting a real crash course in dealing with lower/dropping numbers tonight. AND you have found out that Turner responds well (so far) to high carb foods. Quite a learning experience.

 

I'll be a pro by tomorrow

He's acting quite normal, which is good

 

How much HC did you feed him Larissa?

It's a good idea to keep notes in the "Remarks" section of your spreadsheet so the next time something like this happens (and there WILL be a "next time"!), you'll have details on how you handled it in the past and how he responded

 

You sure will be.

That is good that he is acting normal, but sometimes a kitty can seem fine even with very low numbers. My Maxie kitty ...other diabetic... hit 32 on the AT2 about 3 weeks ago and I never would have known if I wasn't testing. She had no signs at all.

Don't be surprised of the numbers are high in the morning. After dropping down lower than Turner is used to it is almost guaranteed that there will be a bounce. I am expecting the same with my Tuxie since he has been running between 59-61 for the last 3 hours or so

 

About a tsp this time and probably double that the first time. I'll add some notes

 

Did you feed high carb this last time?

As long as he's in good numbers and not dropping, you want to stick with just a little of his regular low carb food

 

Yes. High carb. Will test in another minute. Should I just continuously keep giving him a little bit of his regular food?

 

+3 is 145. Definitely on the rise now.

 

I had suggested a tsp of regular food at your last test. As long as the numbers are over 68 and not dropping you can use regular food if needed. If the regular food will not bring him up then using MC or HC foods is warranted. If the next test is still in the same range then you do not have to feed him anything and you can wait an hour to test again

 

I was posting at the same time you were. You do not have to give any food right now. He is holding the numbers fine. You can wait an hour and not feed anything then retest. If the numbers are the same then just repeat. If he has dropped but only a little then you could give a tsp of regular food. You just want to keep him over 68 which he is. Food would be used as necessary

 

Learning all the rules now. Will test again in an hour

 

It is all a learning experience. You still have a few more hours to monitor before Tucker reaches the usual nadir time. He could even start a bounce tonight..only testing will tell the story.

My Tuxie has finally got his numbers over 68 and I need to do shots in 3 1/2 hours so I will be leaving in a minute.

Are you comfortable with the testing/feeding process in case of lower numbers again tonight?

 

Yes, I am. Thanks so much!

 

And I hope you get some sleep. That's a rough night

 

If he's still up and staying up (without feeding any more) for 2 hours, I think you're good for the night Larissa

 

You are very welcome. I didn't want to leave you until the numbers seemed stable and you were comfortable with how to handle everything. There are more people coming on the forum now so if you do need help there are others here, as well as Chris of course

Have a good night and you did great with shooting your lowest preshot yet.

 

Oh yeah!!! Don't want to forget this!!

For shooting your first green Pre-shot, you've earned the BOS award!!!! (Balls Of Steel)

 

LOL

 

Now... Do we go back to the 4.75 for the morning dose? I do work from home on Thursdays, so I'll be here all day

 

Great job tonight, Larissa!

In answer to your question about tomorrow morning's dose . . . he didn't earn a reduction tonight by going under 68AT. If you're going to be home, I'd hold the 4.75u until he either 1) earns a reduction by dropping under 68, or 2) you decide you need to increase the dose, based upon his test numbers.

Well done.

 

200. We're safe. Off to bed I go.