Help w/ foster- overweight/transition to wet

I hope its ok to post here, as I no longer have a cat with FD. I just figured there may be some folks who could offer some good tips. Also, keep in mind the only cat I have experience with was Latte - free fed kibble until age 14, when all her issues started. After 3.5yrs of dealing with so many special conditions she had, I dont have a clue how to deal with a 'normal' cat. Please forgive me if some of my questions may seem dumb. :YMSIGH:

Duchess is approx 2yrs old. Found pregnant on an indian reservation and transferred to a foster home. Litter was had in Jan this year. All kitties adopted, but she was not. Foster mom kept bringing other cats in. I believe I counted a total of 15 cats/kittens when I went to visit before picking her up. She had been bullied and picked on, so she spent all her time in the basement of the house where the food/water/litter were. She was free fed kibble. She appeared to be normal weight from photos after her kittens, and now weighs 14lbs. She is a tiny cat and does not carry this well. She looks VERY VERY pregnant (but she is not). The shelter vet says she should be between 9-10lbs. My goal is to help her transition to wet and lose weight so she is more 'adoptable' and continues to stay healthy. Also to give her a place where she feels safe, and gets lots of love.

No one knew how much she was eating, so I started by putting 1/2 c of her dry out, to see how long it would take to eat. I did this 2-3 times, guessing she was probably eating 1 cup/day. According to dr. lisa's site, you should cut back no more than 20% of normal intake (if I read it right) and monitor weight, which should not be lost at a rate faster than .01-.02% of current weight. I cut back the dry and tried to put some wet food in a timed feeder. She didnt even recognize the wet as food. I then started putting treats in the feeder (temptations), which took a few days to catch on. I wanted to establish meal times, so I would take away the 'free feed' kibble at 7am (always gone anyway) and 5:30/6pm. I experimented with a few brands and consistancies of wet and put a 1-2T on a plate with a dozen kibble or so. After a few days she started eating more and more of the wet. It appears she is up to about 1 can/day! When I leave for work in the a.m. I still leave out a small bit of kibble, which I have been decreasing as she eats more wet. When I come home I dont put any more kibble out until bed. It seems she eats that as soon as I hit the pillow and is then starving by a.m.

Her weight has pretty much stayed the same this week, according to my scale. I will do an official weight for the week on Sunday. I was kind of bummed about that. Wondering if she needs LESS food. Yet, she seems sooooo hungry at certain times...and is still getting around 300-350 cals/day between wet, kibble, and treats. Considering I spent the last 3+yrs BEGGING my skinny cat to eat and offering at every possible moment of interest, this is VERY hard for me.

Today I tried not leaving any kibble out after a.m. meal (I have been home all day). I have to say it has been torture watching her pace and sniff by her bowl. I offered some boiled chicken in the time feeder, but she doesnt really want it. She did eat some freeze dried chicken. Its almost dinner time, so soon she will be happy!

Am I doing things right? Am I expecting too much too quickly? Am I torturing her with hunger??

Any suggestions are welcome. Specific questions follow:

• If I am gone during a time she 'likes' to eat, and she wont eat from the timed feeder (wet, anyway) what else can I do? I hate to leave her with NO food while I am at work or late for an established feeding time. Is this a way of thinking that I need to break after having Latte? Do most normal cats eat only 2-3x/day with no food between those times?
  
  Now that she is showing interest in the freeze dried chicken, and eating it from the feeder I prefer to give those to her than the temptations. Good idea? Any one know calories for these type of treats. Im using grandma lucys (left over from Latte), but could change to anything else, as soon as tomorrow.
  
  (as a vegetarian) - if I put cubes frozen cubes of chicken in her timed feeder, how long can they sit before unsafe to eat? (dumb question coming up...) can they eat it in cube form, unfrozen of course? I always had to rip it into pieces for Latte. Is it safe to just have one big chunk for her to rip apart?
  
  Does anyone raise the timed feeder so its easier for the cat to eat out of. It just seems so low. She bats the treats out and eats from the floor (or her paw - polydactyl). Maybe eating the wet from the feeder is just too hard? Maybe its just me being used to Latte needing her dishes raised? :YMSIGH:
  

Im sure I have/will have more questions. But its a start.

Oh - I have found wellness chicken, and beef/chicken to be preferred wet so far. She is actually very active. I play with her often - she runs (sounding like a horse), jumps, chases things, bats at toys, etc. Im sure she is getting a lot more activity than she used to. She is a really good girl (though I forgot how young cats can still jump onto anything and destroy ohmygod_smile ), not cuddly but loving. She certainly has some trust issues and fears, but seems to be doing okay as long as Im gentle and respectful. She is seems VERY happy and almost always peaceful here (new noises freak her out).

Thanks again for any help!

 

I am likely talking through my hat, but I did think of a couple things that I would try.

What about taking the dry food she likes and sticking the pieces on top of the wet food? She would have to eat the dry and would be getting bits of wet on the pieces. Could you crush the dry into coarse pieces and sprinkle on top?

For the chicken pieces, are you talking about fresh chicken you are cutting into cubes and freezing? I think it depends on the cat, what size is preferred.
For me, Oliver likes chunks. Just toss him cubes the size of dice, and he chomps on them. Then again he's big. The odd time, he prefers strips like thick sliced bacon. Apple is just a kitten, so I cut the raw chicken into tiny strips and feed raw. Funny though, she goes over to Oliver's big chunks and tries to tackle them. Shadoe will eat only chopped steamed chicken, so I steam a breast and shred it to bits for her.
What about try them fresh to see how she likes them. If you give her a cube and she has trouble gnawing on it, try shredding and see if she prefers it.
For the freezing, I don't leave frozen foods, so I can't comment on how long it takes to thaw. Again, try it on the weekend - freeze a few pieces and then take them out and see how long they take to thaw on your counter. Maybe you can put the frozen cubes in the frig overnite, then in the morn, plop them into the feeder sections.

If she really likes her dry, then putting the dry into the feeder should train her to get used to hearing the feeder turn, and know that there is food. I did all my feeder training on the weekends with Shadoe; the sound of the feeder she recognized and would come tearing out of hiding when it turned.

What about fortiflora? Man, I sprinkle that on food and Shadoe goes nuts! If she likes the raw chicken, you could try sprinkling some fortiflora over the chicken and if she loves it, then you can sprinkle it on top of wet food in a bowl and later in the feeder.

I am so glad to hear she is doing well, and hope you get some better suggestions and are able to switch her over to wet from a feeder and get her weight down a bit.

 

Thanks Gayle, for taking the time to think through and write all that!

I do put kibble in the same dish next to the wet food. Ive increased the wet food to approx 1/4-1/3 of a 3 oz can, and decreased kibble in that dish from about 20+ pieces to under 10. This evening she only ate 2 pieces of kibble and all the wet (left the rest of the kibble! Ya!). Doing the side by side thing in the bowl I think has been key to any transition, with her.

The chicken I got was a boneless breast. I boiled it and cut it into pieces. I dont know about these cube shapes :lol:. I certainly couldnt cut it like that. The dice size visual helps me know how big to start (I think these 'chunks' are a lot bigger). I froze the chunks, so they wouldnt go bad as quickly. Other than today I only offered the chicken her first night and day. She didnt want them...just wanted my hand to pet her. :smile: Guess its trial and error, along with individual for each cat how they want to eat it.

I think Im going to try putting the kibble in the timed feeder tonight like you suggested, for practice. I suspect I will end up with a cat in my face MANY times tonight...wondering where her food is. Oh well. I suppose I could start doing that during the days this weekend as well. Im getting a sense for when she likes to eat, so I will reset the timer.

Something really important to me when I agreed to foster was no special needs. I just need a break and some time to get my life back and remember the things I enjoy, ya know? I need to set up her eating in a way that I can be gone 8, 10, maybe occassionally 12hrs and not worry. Certainly I can schedule my life around when SHE wants to eat and put down bowls every few hours for her so she only eats wet...but then Im not living my life. And Im sure no one who adopts her would do that either. Just how do I get her on a schedule that works for both of us, where Im not starving her but not giving too much food.

Funny (or not so), I was excited to think I could just open a can of food and put it in a bowl. Turns out of all the consistencies I tried, she likes it just the way Latte did. Pureed in a food processor. :roll: So here I am again, every a.m., glassy eyed, pureeing cat food. She does accept it pre pureed, tho...I can make a batch and put it in the fridge for 24hrs and she is eating it. At least there is not as much food waste.

Thanks again Gayle!

 

Typically, cats should be able to rip to shreds and consume any size piece of meat they are given.

I have found with mine, that I do need to make the pieces smaller (as I have one who will choke on it, one who will inhale and Maui who - let's just say she's likes bite size pieces).

If Duchess is still acting hungry and looking for kibbles - it could be habit or she is really hungry. Do you add water to the wet food - it's makes it more liquidy and will help to fill her up.

Also, you may want to consider feeding her more than one can per day. While yes, you want weight loss, what's more important right now, is to get her eating the foods you want her to eat and if you are feeding low carb, then more food won't hurt her - it's possible that 1.5 or even 2 cans will satisfy her and over time you could reduce it, if need be. Also feeding low carb will help with weight loss.

when I switched everyone to wet only - my big girl Buster didn't lose weight or at least she hasn't appeared to lose weight, but when I recently (over one year after changing foods) pet her belly (she has the belly droop), I noticed that it's more loose skin than fat in there. So, she is losing weight. Sadly, she without a tummy tuck, she will be stuck with that droopy belly.

You may also want to warm up the cooked chicken (for when you are there) as another enticement - While mine will eat it from the fridge, I noticed they enjoy it more if it's slightly warm. Must be the smell thing.

Of course the freeze dried is kitty crack in our house and I can get them to do anything for the stuff. I even break those into bite size pieces as yes, sydney choked on them.

 

Some more thoughts.

I found with the wet in the feeder, it looked like Shadoe must nap around 2pm because that bowl in the feeder was almost always untouched. With wet it is always hard to tell exactly how much was eaten, but with dry, you have a way of knowing about how much is eaten by putting the exact same amount of kibble pieces into each section.
I know that sounds crazy but if you put 25pices in each section, and when you come home, you can see obviously which sections of time they got eaten and how much, it will help you to adjust the times. If 2 are spot free, another has 9 pieces and another has 2, that will tell you something. If you find the same levels in the same time frames most days, that tells you a great deal!

If you do the feeder training when you are home, you know the times, so you can be sure that both of you are near the feeder just before it makes the turn noise. Then if kitty does not go over to feeder, you can take kitty over.
If that method does not work, then sit by the feeder with kitty just before it goes off so kitty sees AND hears feeder turn.
Cats are pretty bright and when it comes to their foods, they are brighter. And a hungry cat is really bright!

Oliver needs a bit of a coaxing with the first piece of raw chicken. I wonder about his sense of smell and for sure his eyesight, but if I dangle a bacon strip size of chicken right by his nose and shake it, he gets the idea. Once he has that first piece, he's up and saying alrighty, where's the rest!

Once you know the times when awake and asleep, you will be able to adjust the feeder times and be gone for hours and hours, 24hours if you wanted.

Actually, once the feeder is being used regularly, you can start to adjust the times to suit you, as it will be the turning sound that draws. If hungrier sooner, cats know where the food WILL BE and I have seen mine sit just in front of the feeder, waiting for the turn. It may help with the weight loss plan to evenly space out the feedings.

I hope the feeder usage increases and the switch to healthy wet continues to progress well.

 

If it helps any, I free feed wet food. My girls are grazers - probably from the dry food days. I have three cats - so each day, I put out a buffet twice a day that consists of:

1 - 5.5 ounce can of friskies
1/2 - 5.5 ounce can of nature's logic
2-3 spoons of homemade raw

I add water to the canned food to keep it moist throughout the day and I put an ice pack under the raw.

Some days the bowls are empty, other days they aren't.

I supplement with chicken treats - either rotisserie, baked or freeze dried depending on what I have available. and one cat (Buster) loves to share any meat I'm eating as well.

so for three cats, it doesn't sound like a lot of food, but it must be enough, because I don't see anyone starving.

So that's another idea if you want to free feed wet - you can.

 

Well, the kibble in the time feeder worked...sorta. I didnt like the end result, however.
I split the amount I have been giving her overnight into 3 compartments. One to go off at bed (11pm), one for 2am, and finally 4am. I heard her eating at 3:30am. She must have gone right back after the 4am went off and ate that too. Then she puked. :sad:

Of course now she does not want bfast (wet food). Its been 2hrs trying to get her to eat, and there is no interest. She is going to be a hungry girl when Im gone later today. She did recognize the sound of the timer for her treats an hour after bfast was served, however. :?

So tonight...2 timers...one around bed time and one around 2am. No more 4am! I will keep the 4am timer on, but slot empty so she wont be eating it so close to bfast time.

I think this timed feeder might be too hard for her to eat wet food from. Its a 5 meal, w/ triangular slots about 3 inches deep. She often pulls the kibble out with her paw and eats it from her paw or the floor. She doesnt do that from other bowls, which I have raised. Im wondering if there are suggestions for other feeders that are a little less deep maybe?

 

Guess I overshot how much she was eating in her old foster home.
Weight 1 week ago (3 days after arrival)... 14.13/14.14
Weight Thursday to make sure no extreme loss/gain...14.15
Today 14.15 1/2

I think Im just going to make this less complicated. After looking at Dr. Lisa's site for the zillionth time, I will use her 2nd formula...take the ideal weight of the cat, multiply by whatever number (cant remember) + 70. It would put her at about 215 calories/day. I will give her 1/2 of 3 oz can in a.m. and p.m., with a few pieces of kibble. She can eat it or not. I'll Keep treats in timed feeder, which I will switch to pure bites instead of temptations. The timed feeder will open twice in the middle of the night with with 1/8th c kibble in each. That will still over shoot her for the 'formula', but will be approx 20% less than she has been getting this week. I can slowly decrease the amount of kibble pieces over night, and eventually work in more wet for her meals.

I didnt go look for a new timed feeder yet, but I will. Something a little less deep may be better when I want to start putting some of her wet in it for the middle of the day/night.

She is HUNGRY....or bored...or habit? At one point today, she was not interested in play. She laid right in front of her bowl and timed feeder. Of course she went away to take a nap 5 minutes before it went off, treat inside. When I showed her I got a look like, "how dare you wake me for such nonsense!" :roll: I feel like Im STARVING her, ya know? But if she is not losing from the amount I was giving, physiologically she is not starving, right???

This is hard!

I think she is softer already. And a lot less dandruff. I wonder if just switching half her diet to wet has done that already? She is also drinking a lot less water. The first few days I thought this might be a cat that could have drank Latte under the table! And urinating...ack! But really, in the last 5 days it has decreased drastically.

I hope Im not doing anything wrong.