Help With Glucose Meter and Hypoing

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by tajana340, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Jan 8, 2010
    Today I just purchased the Relion Ultima Glucose meter and tested Spice with it at 5pm and her glucose reading was 35.
    I rechecked it at 10 pm and the reading was 28. And After reading the blogs. I am Confused if I have the wrong Meter since someone said it should be the Relion Micro Meter or if I Lanced Spice in the wrong spot. Help!!!
     
  2. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    either the ultima or the micro is fine but let's make sure you have all the right equipment. and whatever you do, until we figure this out, please don't give any insulin ok

    soooo, your meter says ultima? does your strips say ultima? and did you have to set any type of code on it? i'm not real familiar with relion's but will try to find someone that is
     
  3. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Yes test strips are for the ultima and it doesn't require a code.
     
  4. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    have you given insulin tonight? how much and what kind do you use? and how long has it been since you got that 28? in hours and minutes if you can ok? and is spice acting ok?

    gotta take care of some technicalities first ok.
     
  5. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Have not given insulin tonite Spice usually gets 5 units of Pzi Vet. The 28 reading was 45 minutes ago. Spice Ate at 10 pm
    Spice is acting ok.
     
  6. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Whoa... it's a wonderful thing that you got that meter... May I ask how long he's been on insulin and how you got to 5 units?
     
  7. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    It is very important for us to know how many hours ago the last insulin dose was with the numbers that you are giving us as the current bgl readings. And in the meantime - DON'T shoot any more insulin until we know what is going on with the bgl readings.

    AND - !!!!!!!!VERY IMPORTANT!!!!! PLEASE Read this:
    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2203

    ~M
     
  8. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    ok, he clearly doesn't need that much insulin, not at this point that's for sure. so it's good you haven't given him any tonight.

    i'm trying to round up people who are familiar with that particular meter but it seems most have gone to bed i think.

    in the meantime you are fairly new here right? was spice just diagnosed or has he been diabetic for a while? i'm asking because that's a hefty dose of insulin he's on and i'm thinking he doesn't need that much anymore based on these numbers. either that or yes, your meter isn't working right, thus the need for someone who uses that meter day in and day out. i've only used it a couple times while giving hometesting lessons with others so i am by far not an expert on how that one works.
     
  9. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    She has been on insulin for about a year and last October the vet did the fructosme test and said that i need to go up to 5 units.
     
  10. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Do you giver Spice 5 units twice a day, or 5 units once per day, or is it 5 total units a day between two shots?
    And what is Spice eating for the normal diet, please?

    ~M
     
  11. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    i have a feeling that dose will be changing. yowzee!
    those numbers are well into the hypoglycemic area in case you didn't know.

    would you be willing to test yourself or another cat if you have another one? to do a comparison test. that would give us an idea as to whether your meter is reading correctly. you should be somewhere around 90-120 or so and another cat would be possibly 50-120 or so
     
  12. Heather & Seasaidh (GA)

    Heather & Seasaidh (GA) Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I use the ReliOn Ultima meter for Bumperic. The ReliOn strips I purchase need to be coded though.
     
  13. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Jan 8, 2010
    Last insulin

    Last insulin was given at 9 am and I only gave her 4 becasue On new years eve we were at the emergency vet and her glucose was 40. And that was after giving her corn syrup 4x in an hour.


    Spice gets 5 units 2x daily and she eats hills prescriptive m/d wet food.
     
  14. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I know we are going to come at you with a lot of questions and stuff to read... just take your time...

    What does was she on prior to the increase? It could very well be... and likely is, that she is one WAY too much insulin. It's very difficult for a vet to know what is happening with the BGs in just one visit - even if it's for a day. So monitoring is key. Like you are doing.

    It could be that since the dx or since the increase in dosage that her pancreas has recovered some and she doesn't need as much, or any, insulin.

    Please keep monitoring and know that if you skip a shot, at the next scheduled shot she might be high, or higher, but that does not necessarily mean she needs a lot of insulin... it could be a bounce or rebound from going so low. Now that you are testing, you may have to rethink you dosage completely.
     
  15. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Jan 8, 2010
    Re: Code on test strips

    Yes I had to calibrate the meter with a test strip that had a code.

    Prior to the 5 unit increase she was on pzi vet 3 untis 2x a day
     
  16. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I just did another reading on a different cat and she diva is not diabitic and her reading was 69.
     
  17. Heather & Seasaidh (GA)

    Heather & Seasaidh (GA) Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I'm so glad that you're testing Spice. How is she doing now??? Do you have a new BG number?
     
  18. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    If your other baby read 69 (which is a good number to be) then Spice is currently too low - did you read the link that I posted above for hypoglycemia? You might want to grab some syrup/honey/simple sugar and give Spice a squirt of it and start testing Spice every 15 minutes until you get three rising numbers in a row, and Spice is back over 80 to 90.


    ~M
     
  19. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Spice just ate 7 grams of food but i will give her some dextrose that i got on new years eve from the vet .

    Thanx
     
  20. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I sure did read the link to hypoglycemia. Thanx Good refresher course.
     
  21. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    just did another reading on spice she is up to 37 will check in antother 15 mins
     
  22. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    If Spice were my kitty, I would lower that insulin dose to ONE unit bid AND change the food to a lower carb content food. The one that you are currently feeding is over 30% in carbs,. and honestly, if Spice is going hypo on that many carbs, this says that the insulin dose is way too high. Hill's is very poor quality food despite what they want everyone to believe! Read the ingredient list and you will see that it has a lot of grain in it and no real meat to speak of. And to top it off, it is expensive! Expensive trash, is my opinion of Hill's.

    There are a lot of good choices to be found here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm


    Choose foods that are 10% or lower in carbs., (I choose 5% or less in carbs). A lot of people feed Fancy Feast and Friskies as the main diet. I feed Wellness grain free, Evo 95% meat, Evo cat & kitten, and Friskies Special diet as Stormy Blue also has kidney issues and what he eats - the other five cats eat - so the food I pass out is lo-carb and under 220mg in phosphorus.

    With you testing on a daily basis, you can see how well the decreased dose and diet change are working together. If at some point Spice's insulin dose needs to be increased, you should do it slowly and gradually - .25 to .5 unit increase and allowing the new dose to work for at least 3-5 days before increasing further.

    For what it is worth, I am not a vet, but I do have a lot of experience with diabetes. Cats, dogs, humans.. there are several in my family (furred and skin) who have the disease. There are a LOT of people on here with huge amounts of experience in treating this disease. Please, listen to the advice that you are being given. All anyone wants is for Spice to have the very best treatment that is available.

    Wishing the best to you & Spice,

    ~M
     
  23. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    what about frsikies special diet beef and chicken
     
  24. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    That's a good choice. It is one of the ones that I feed. Lo-carb and lo-phosphorous.
    But please, do NOT feed Spice that unless you lower the insulin dose to 1 unit 2x per day to start -
    AND you are going to continue home monitoring of his bgl.

    The dose of insulin Spice is on now, (5 units bid) if still given along with a lo-carb food, is a recipe for disaster and could cause serious health issues.

    The insulin dose needs to be lowered before starting to feed a lo-carb food. You could do it starting tomorrow AM, but only if you have lowered the dose and will keep testing religiously. We don;t want Spice hypo-ing again.

    Also don't freak if you get higher than usual readings tomorrow, and maybe a day or two afterward as well. Spice has been fed a lot of dextrose to get him up to a safe bgl level tonight - and Spice will probably rebound due to the high doses of insulin. Likely, you will not be getting a true bgl reading for the next 36-48 hours.

    Keep testing him tonight about every 15 minutes until he crests over 80, just to be safe. If he starts to drop again, give him more of your dextrose and try to get him to eat some of that high carb Hill's food to help him maintain the higher bgl.

    ~M
     
  25. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    Also keep in mind that there are people here almost 24/7 and you can post a new thread with your new BG also known as the AM Preshot (AMPS)... Unless the BG is over 200, I would not shoot any insulin. And if it way over - from going so low and then skipping tonight... I would still only give a very low dose.... But post the number first and see what people suggest. You can do that in this thread - and change the subject line in your first post... or you can start a new thread and link this on to it in your post so that people know the history. That history is very important.

    I would still wait up and make sure that your baby's BG is rising a bit. But it doesn't have to go much over 80... So don't overdo the sugar if it's rising on its own.
     
  26. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    She hypoglecemia on new years eve will that affect her readings
     
  27. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Re: Help With Glucose Meter

    I think that you are asking if the hypo episode on New Year's would be affecting her readings now.
    I'd have to say no because that was well over a week ago.

    But I will admit that I am surprised and dismayed that no one at that office advised that you lower future insulin dosages immediately in an attempt to prevent another hypo attack - like the one she is having now.

    ~M
     
  28. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    No i asked them about that and they informed me to give her regualr 5 units 2x a day
     
  29. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

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    That advice was misguided.

    We can't say exactly what happened on New Years... but it's typical for a cat that has gone very low and had a hypo incident to then have very high BG later - due to rebound and the sugar to raise the BG... but that is a falsely inflated BG and dosing should not be decided on those numbers. The safe route is to immediately lower the dose and check the BG regularly in order to ensure that it's safe to give insulin. You kitty may have been in rebound since that incident but the body was protecting itself... and just couldn't keep doing that today.

    I'm not saying this is what happened... just that we've seen it happen a lot and we've seen vets react to the high numbers by giving a high dose...


    Does this all make sense to you? It's hard to get sometimes when you are learning to home test and you are worried about your kitty.


    PS: I have to get to bed... I just didn't want you to think that I'd abandoned the convo. I'll check back tomorrow for an update.
     
  30. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    her reading at 1 am is 31 mg her previous reading was 37 except that it was very difficult to get her reading a second time.

    The first reading at 10 am was 28
    second at 12:30 was 37
    third was 31
     
  31. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    I would give her some more of the dextrose, or if you have it honey, or syrup. And feed her something high in carbs. Does she like bread? Try feeding her a bit of that. Do you have any kibble dog food that she might eat a few bites of? Corn chips, maybe? Some food that is high in carbs will keep her number up for longer and it really needs to keep rising until you crest at least 70.

    To be on the safe side when you are having a hypo attack, you want the bgl to be rising consistently at least three times AND for the bgl to be at a safe number. That generally means, for a kitty on insulin, that the bgl should be over 70.

    Keep testing her until you know that she is safe. I am sorry, but it might be a long night for you and Spice.

    ~M
     
  32. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    Jan 8, 2010
    i seriously think there is something wrong with that glucose meter
     
  33. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    If it tested fine earlier on your other kitty, I kind of doubt it is the meter. I went thru a serious hypo issue with my baby back in June when he was still on insulin. It honestly took about 6 hours to get his bgl to a safe level and for it to stay there. It would crash back down to hypo levels every half hour and I was a wreck before I could get him to a safe number.

    Would you feel better if you could talk to someone on the telephone about what is happening? I can PM you my number if so.

    ~M
     
  34. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    i don't know her ears are all torn up tryoing to get #s and she is acting ok she just ate. I am confused and scared. I do't think i can test her every 15 mins she is getting very difficult to get her readings and like i said her ears are looking pretty bad
     
  35. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    I sincerely do understand how stressful this is for you and Spice. And I know exactly what you mean about being scared and confused...what you feel right now is horrible and most of us on this board have walked in your shoes at least once, so you are not alone. But, you need to know that she is at a safe bgl before you are golden. You say that she just ate - what did you feed her, and how long ago did she is it? Earlier you said she ate 7 grams of food - is that what you are talking about her eating?

    If her ears are sore, I understand that, too. Some of the people on here test on the foot pads instead of the ear. I assume that you are testing on the edge of the ear - between the very edge and the vein? If not, you are poking her in the wrong spot and that will lead to soreness. Putting pressure on the puncture for a few seconds afterward is always helpful, too - and many use Neosproin pain relief cream afterward to help with the ouchies.

    ~M
     
  36. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    she ate 10 mins ago hills prescriptive wet food with a tablespoon of dextrose and i mixed in a little of frskies special diet bee and chicken and added a little bread.

    She has been eating al night long.
     
  37. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    it looks like she is going to sleep?!
     
  38. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    okay, that's good to know. A nice carb loaded snack :)

    That hopefully will get her bl up into an acceptable range *crossing fingers* but, if Spice were my baby, I'd test her again in a bit. You really need to have three rising numbers, taken at least 15 minutes apart, and a cresting number of 70+ before you can say "whew! safe".

    Maybe you can try her paw-pads for the next test? Also, I sent you my phone number via PM in case you wanted to talk instead of type. My eyes are getting heavy now and I need to get away from the PC for awhile.

    I did not want you to think that I had just abandoned you...

    You are doing all of the right things to get her numbers up to a safe zone, but sometimes with that much insulin and a history of hypo on that amount of insulin - it is better to be safe, rather than sorry by monitoring kitty until they are positively in the safe zone.

    ~M
     
  39. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Well, she could very well BE sleepy. Is she normally sleeping this time of night?
    BUT - lethargy is also a symptom of hypoglycemia, too.

    ~M
     
  40. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    Hi, I am just catching up but have had experience with hypo and helping others through it as well. You are doing great and have been given excellent advice so far.
    Now she will be sleepy, have you seen any other slightly off behaviour? Lethargy, increased appetite, etc?

    You do want to stay up and to keep testing until you see three rising levels above about 70.

    You want to give a little food about every 20- 30 minutes, unless levels drop again, and if need be add a litle dextrose in as well. Food takes longer to bring the blood glucose levels up, but lasts in the system, sugar acts immediately, but doesn't last, so you have to balance the two.

    Right now can you get a test? Can you remind what insulin you are currently giving?

    9:00 pacific time? Is it 1:44 there right now?

    We are an international board so trying to establish how long it has been since shot.

    Okay....you are not alone, have a glass of water, a deep breath and get another test okay
     
  41. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    Kimmee - 5 units PZI bid, last dose was approximately 16 hours ago, if I am recalling correctly.
    I might be off on the time frame, but her PM shot was scheduled for 10PM and was skipped due to hypo.

    I am going to get off of the PC and leave this in your very capable hands, Kimmie.

    G'nite

    ~M
     
  42. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    i don't know how to do the paw pads for testing

    I just fed her tuna and a little bread soaked in the tuna water. She ate a few fingerfuls.
     
  43. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    Me again...
    how many hours ago was the last shot?

    This is very low to still be at if it is more than 12 hours, and I think it must be as you did not give the second shot....is that correct?

    I am concerned that she may need a vet to intervene as you are well past any kind of peak and kitty has eaten and had dextrose and you are not seeing much movement.

    Do you have one you can get to need be?

    I have been rereading through the post and am concerned for you guys.
     
  44. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    Thx for the Summary Mary, are you sure you don't want to hang in with this a bit, you have been awesome.
     
  45. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    I'll stay, but I need to go do my glaucoma drops which means I will need to be AFK for about 10 minutes. I have to keep my eyes closed for 5 minutes after the drops and then I cannot see for nothing for about another 5 minutes after that!

    I'll be back shortly.

    ~M
     
  46. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    The only thing I noticed is an increase in appetite. Her last insulin was at 9 am mon morning no insulin yet.
     
  47. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    Good...okay....

    I am hoping you re getting another reading to see how that food did?

    Do you have some wet food that has gravy, a higher carb type food?
    What about icecream?

    I am still concerned that this low has been so extended.
    Perhaps you could call the vet and let them know what has been going on and ask what they would like you to do?

    Being irritable about the tests and sleepy could well be symptoms.
    Hanging in for next update.:) You have been doing awesome.
     
  48. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    i don't think she is going to let me give her the test she is really angry.
     
  49. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    If you can;t get a test, I would bundle her and some dextrose and food and head to the vet;. She still is too low to let it ride and you don;t want to risk the effects of extended hypoglycemia.

    Do you have a friend you can call to go with you?

    That kind of irritable is probably a symptom right now.

    let us know if you head out okay? But really, the only safe advice i fee comfirtable giving is to let a vet help you guys.
     
  50. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    and ps...no matter what the levels spike to later, do not let them give anything close to that 4 or 5 units again.....no matter what it takes, you are saving your babies life tonight.

    ((((hugs)))))
     
  51. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    just tested at 315 am she is at 28
     
  52. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    i am wondering if this unit is not accurate since it is the relion ulta and not the relion micro meter
     
  53. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    For those just coming in.. here is the summary

    last shot
    9:00am Monday-4 units PZI
    35 @ 5:00pm ( +8 )
    28 @ 10:00pm (+13 )- no evening shot given
    37 @ 12:030 (+15.5 )
    31 @ approx (+17 )

    meter tested on civie at 69

    kitty also hypo'd new years eve, had been on 5 units pzi, treated at er, given same dose since

    dextrose and food and carbs have been given, and still not coming up above 40.

    Have advise take to ER to get further assistance.
    Cat is currently sleepy and irritated with shots.

    They are in Tuscon, Arizona.

    Have I missed anything?

    Have you been able to get another test yet?
     
  54. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    An extended hypo will look like this when the liver has no more reserves to kick in and help.
    I really, really think you need to call ER and head to them...this is dangerous. Please...you tested and got a normal number on your other kitty.

    What is you kitty doing now?
    How is her behaviour? have you called the vet for their thoughts?

    Please keep trying to give food and dextrose mixed....you need to bring those levels up
    I am sorry to jump in and be so bossy,but I know what those 20s look like...I am worried.

    ((((hugs)))
     
  55. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    I have added the 911 to the heading to bring in more eyes, I suspect they will all echo me however.....
    the ER is your friend when you can not bring levels up safely at home.

    You did great getting last test by the way.

    Keeping hopeful thoughts here for you.
     
  56. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

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    okay, I am back - drops done. The only difference between the Relion ultra and the micro, that I am aware of is that the micro requires a smaller amount of blood for the testing. They are both reliable meters with good reviews. Most meters on the market have a 20% -/+ accuracy. That means, conceivably with your reading of 28 she is anywhere, in actuality, from 22.4 to 33.6. Both of which are still too low. Right now, I suggest that you use an eyedropper, or a syringe and squirt about a teaspoon of it, (dextrose, honey, or syrup), into her mouth (slowly, of course), and head out to the vet.

    I have to agree with Kimmee that she is not rising at a safe level, and Spice likely needs to go to the veterinarian right away where she can be closely monitored and perhaps given IV dextrose.

    I also agree that you should never, never let them push you into high doses again. You know now how to check her bgl yourself. You can safely monitor at home and gradually increase her from 1 unit if need be.

    And, don't forget - dropping the dose means feeding only low carb foods to keep her levels normalized.
    That Hill's food was likely keeping her alive on those 10 units a day simply because it is so high in carbs. It is/was a vicious cycle - feed hi-carb food (pouring gasoline on the fire of diabetes) - then shoot hi-dose of insulin to counteract the hi-carb food. Kitty's body reacts and liver dumps glucose to try and keep from going hypo - and this has been happening to her over and over again until Spice just could not cope anymore - so she crashed for the 2nd time in less than 2 weeks.

    It will be so much easier for Spice to achieve a semblance of normalcy in her bgl readings if she is fed only lo-carb food - and given a very low dose of insulin to start. And slowly increase the dose ONLY if needed by .25 to .5 units at a time.

    But - REMEMBER - please do not switch her to lo-carb food unless you are going to drop that insulin dose to 1 unit or less to start.

    And, just to let you know, Stormy's last hypo event was a full 24 hours after his previous dose of insulin. And he was on micro doses by that point. So cats can hypo for hours after that last shot sometimes.

    ~M
     
  57. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    yes her other test is done 28 .

    Give you a little history. I just bought the monitro today.

    Her insulin since th new years eve hypo

    4 units on 1-2-09 9 am
    3.5 units on 1-3-09 12 pm
    3.5 units on 1-3-09 11 pm

    and the list goes on but she has not had the 4 units until today.
     
  58. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

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    i was under the impression that the hills prescriptive wet was low carb. and i switched her to that diet after the hypo on new years eve and i sprinkle friskies special diet dry food over it
     
  59. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    no i haven't called the vet because there is no money since her last incident and they will not work with a paymnet plan.
     
  60. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    does it matter on the ear where you test could that be giving me false numbers.

    Spice is acting fine. She is just pissed.
     
  61. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Is there another ER you can call who will let you do payment?

    Okay, you need to give her more food and rub that dextrose, karo syrup, whatever you have, onto her gums and mix in food. Let's get really serious about raising these levels.

    What is her current behaviour?

    Tuna does not have any real carbs, do you have anything else she will eat that does? What about crunchies, or temptation? ice cream, beef gravy, etc...

    Anything you give her should have some sugar mixed in with it.

    feed her the combo of food and sugar, if won't eat, rub on gums, and then give about 10 minutes and get another test.

    Does that all make sense?
     
  62. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Anywhere on the ear should be the same. Could you test yourself and see what the level is?
    That will confirm if is working or not.

    Is Spice usually cranky?
    I had a beautiful tortie long ago named Spice :)
     
  63. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    i have been rubbing raspberyy jelly on her gums. and she has been licking it up.

    She is acting just fine. just pissed.
     
  64. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Poor little sticky face...

    Has she had any more food yet? Now would be good to offer her some.
     
  65. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    i tested it on my other cat and it gave me a 69 reading.

    Spice is a tortoishell calico.
     
  66. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    i just tried feeding her and that was a no go.

    update she is eating now.
     
  67. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Spice's mom - what is your name, please? And I understand about vets and not having any money to go see them, too. Boy, oh boy do I understand!

    The Hill's RX diets substitute the fat content with carbs to lower the calories, but bulk up the feeling of being full. It is 30% or so in carb content. The Friskies Special Diet dry is also high in carb content, (Its first ingredient is Ground yellow corn), but it is low in things that are bad for renal issues - like phosphorous and magnesium. BUT dry food is counter productive for kidney/bladder issues, too. And corn? a HUGE no no for sugar kitties.

    Right now, however, feed her every bit of the Friskies kibble that she will eat until she is beyond this crisis.

    Once she is past the crisis - put it away and don;t let her have any ever again unless she is in another hypo crisis. That is, IF you are going to lower the dose of insulin going forward.

    ~M
     
  68. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Not wanting food is really worrying.....

    Good okay so you know the readings you are getting are real...well done, poor other kitty :) A good friend to give up blood for Spice.

    How long has it been since Spice has eaten some food? The tuna and bread was about 40 minutes ago?

    Need to try and entice with anything, throw open the cupboards, try parmesan cheese on top, try warming wet food with warm water, try yoghurt, try literally anything and eanwhile work on another test and get her some dextrose...she should be starving, not wanting to eat is a symptom.
    The body knows it needs food to raise the levels so not eating is a problem.

    My Spice was also a calico tortie, looked a lot my avatar pic of " Abby"
     
  69. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    well she really likes the friskies special diet wet beef and chicken.
     
  70. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    excellent, give her that and mix syrup into it...... then test asap okay?
    waiting for that reading with hopeful paws crossed that it makes a difference.
     
  71. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    The CANNED (wet) Friskies Special diet in beef and chicken is a fine food for a sugar baby. Its an excellent choice, as a matter of fact. It is the kibble, (dry), Friskies Special diet that is a bad, bad choice for any cat.

    ~M
     
  72. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi guys, I cross posted this thread in the PZI forum.
    So hopefully PZI users will will help with the insulin she is using.
     
  73. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    she just hid under the bed and i wiill not be able to get her out.
     
  74. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Thx Ronnie there was no one up there when I cross posted...only awake in lantus it seems.
     
  75. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    The meter is most likely accurate. I have been using the ultima for years. See if you can get your cat to eat some more food.
     
  76. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You have to.....move bed, get serious...brain damage can happen at these prolonged lows.....hiding is a symptom, not eating a symptom, lethargy etc...worried for her.

    need suagr/food asap...
    really want an ER.
     
  77. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    she is eating the friskies wet special diet beef and chicken with dextrose from the vet sprinkled over it.
     
  78. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    she has not had any of those symptons that was just described.

    Like i said she is acting normal.
     
  79. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    She is eating that now? good. You said that you had some of the Friskies Special diet kibble, too - yes?
    It is good to feed the high carb foods in a hypo crisis like this. If she will eat some now - that would be good.
    Later, though, when this is all over - don't let her have the dry food once you drop the insulin dosage.

    ~M
     
  80. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Good eating is really good.

    I misunderstood? You had said earlier she was sleepy and then not interested in food and then went under bed.....

    main thing is food and sugar, and test. really glad to hear she is eating.
     
  81. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    just rubbed jelly on her gums


    she was sleepy because i wouldn't let her sleep and she just came out from under the bed a few mins ago

    she is licking herself
     
  82. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    While she is close can you get another test...would love to see above 40 now :)
     
  83. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Mary, you were a great help, I know you have gone to bed and tried to send you a pm but for some reason wouldn't go through.
     
  84. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    she has been eating all nite long
     
  85. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Okay, it has been about an hour and a quarter since last test...really need to warm that little ear now and see where she is at ....hoping...hoping...above 40.
     
  86. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    she is not going to let me test her and my roomate is gooing to take over. I have to get some shut eye.

    Will let everyone know what happens and she is eating again.
     
  87. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Please have room mate help you get a test before bed, it is so important to know that she is coming up and hasn't dropped down any further.
    Can your room mate log into this board as you for help need be?
     
  88. tajana340

    tajana340 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    no i don't think he will.

    I am sorry.
     

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  89. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree here - she really needs to be monitored till you see a rise in BG levels.
    Knowing that she is eating isn't going to tell u she is at a safe number.

    Please retest and if ur roommate can take over for u here that would be great.
     
  90. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    I am heading to bed, but wanted to clarify this one issue. She has been eating little bits of food all night and getting the dextrose off and on all night, and now the jelly, too. The deal is that Spice is going to have to keep this up until she crests above 70. What I have seen from the bgl readings that you are posting is that she starts to rise - then the bgl falls again.

    That is happening because there is too much insulin in her body and her liver cannot cope anymore. It, (the insulin), pretty much has to sort of wear out, (for lack of a better term), now. In the meantime, you have to help Spice cope by giving her high carb foods and testing her frequently to make sure she crests to a safe bgl #.

    You cannot change the insulin amount that she had before - in the past - but you can change the dose to a lower dose, (start at 1 unit), moving forward so that hopefully this will not happen to her again. Moving forward, You can put her on that canned Friskies Special Diet beef and chicken and let that be her only daily diet and you will have made a sound, safe choice of food for your diabetic kitty. Ditch the Hills, ditch the kibble - and just feed her the canned Friskies.

    I know that you are scared, and stressed, and tired. But you have done a WONDERFUL job tonight of helping Spice while she is in crisis. You will continue to do a wonderful job with her - I just know it.

    You have my phone number now - if you need to have a quick question answered, please don't hesitate to call.

    I leave you in very capable hands with Kimmee and the others that are now coming online.

    ~M
     
  91. WCF and Meowzi

    WCF and Meowzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    agree with kimmee. please read

    also PLEASE keep in mind
    Posted by: Jess & Earl (IP Logged)
    Date: December 11, 2007 08:17AM

    That there are physiologic symptoms that you cannot see so hypoglycemia should always be addressed i.e. you need to get the BG up if you are looking at LO or <30, even in a cat that has only one or two of the milder symptoms. Hypoglycemia can affect their blood pressure, heart rate, heart rhythm, etc and SEIZURES CAN BE NON-CONVULSIVE. I wish that everyone knew that. Brain cell death occurs with severe hypoglycemia regardless--the cat does not have to be seizing uncontrollably, nor, as peer-reviewed published medical studies show, does a seizure have to be "big" for brain damage to occur.

    Now the consequences above are unlikely to occur in many of the milder episodes we see on this board: the cat's BG is 40, they eagerly eat their food, next BG is 53, then 62, etc. My point is to stress the need to take action when presented with a very low BG regardless of the cat's history, lifestyle, or previous experience. Unfortunately, cats do not have the capacity that dogs have to store a large amt of glucagon in their liver (glucagon converts to glucose as needed) so they may have even more trouble avoiding damage from an insulin overdose. Keep in mind that the insulin we inject may continue to act long after the animal's BG has gone too low (our own insulin wouldn't do this) so the animal has to continually work to keep its BG up ... meaning that you may see symptoms only when the cat or dog is having trouble matching the extent or duration of the drop caused by the injected insulin.

    Hope this helps rather than confuses!

    Jess

    Entire thread here
     
  92. Karen and Flo

    Karen and Flo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Did anyone hear from her? Did she phone? Go to ER? Is roommate testing??
     
  93. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    No, I expect we won't hear anything til she is up.
     
  94. Brenda and Morris

    Brenda and Morris Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I just read this thread and wanted to comment on the Relion issue. I have used the Relion meter for years, first the Ultima and then more recently switched over to the Micro....never had a problem and love the Micro, uses a very tiny amount of blood.

    Day before yesterday I opened a new box of strips. It had new packaging that read "Confirm/micro test strips for use with ReliOn Confirm and Micro blood glucose meters only." The very first strip out of the box gave me a 65. I fed a bit of gravy to bring my Morris up since I was going out and congratulated myself that his dose reduction was working. Then after waiting 30 minutes, I retest and he was 278, then 308 five minutes later....no way was that a food spike! So the 65 was a false reading and Morris had a nice mc snack. When I came home two hours later he was 270. Then yesterday morning he w as 69 and 83 within minutes of each other at +8 and 106 at AMPS. At +2 he was 309 in the left ear and 225 in the right ear, one minute apart!!! No way!!!!

    I took the strips back to Walmart and they put me on the phone with the tech support people, who agreed to send me a new package and the control solution, but my main concern was that the strips be reliable. They said that occasionally the strips are mishandled during shipping, getting either too hot or too cold, and they become unstable and produce errors. That's why they offer the test solution for free by just calling the 800#. I didn't know that, but I do now.

    Even though the other cat tested at 69 does not prove inconclusively that the meter is working. Some of my readings were probably correct but who knows which ones?

    Just imparting some information here, and hope it is of some use. Hope that sweet Spice is OK and her mama comes back to update shortly.
     
  95. Deb and Pippin

    Deb and Pippin Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I use the reli on micro as well and over time have found that unless the right amount of blood is sipped by the strip you will get irregular readings. For example, if the drop is too small I get a very low reading, when that happens I retest and usually get a higher reading, when the blood drop is too big and the strip doesnt start sipping slowly from the side of the blood drop but is just pushed into too large a drop I get an irregularly high reading and must retest. The same thing happened with my contour, the amount of blood and the speed the strip sips it up can affect the reading.........just so you know.
    I know about sore spots from testing, Poor Pippin has a bloody mangled tail a lot and we sometimes move to the toe pads to give it time to heal. If you warm the foot first and test on the side of a toe pad you can usually get enough for a test if the kitty will let you!
    I hope after all you have been through this night that you will dramatically reduce his dose and that he is seeing safer numbers this morning. That is a very large dose and should have been reduced when he hypoed on New Years, it could also be that his pancreas is kicking in and adding to the equation.
     
  96. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Well done, Mary and Kimmee.... I do hope kitty is doing fine this morning.

    May I just say one thing... Right after Sundance went diet controlled she did maintained a 1.8 (32) for a day. She then stayed at about 2.2 (39) and sometimes under for quite a while. I'm hoping that this kitty just has a super working pancreas and that she's not in trouble hypo-wise. I know her numbers were lower, but that could be meter variance too.

    Looking forward to an update.

    tajana340, please check in and let us know how everyone is... and also remember, no more than 1 unit insulin and only if she is above 200... Please let us know before you give another shot.
     
  97. Janet & Binky (GA)

    Janet & Binky (GA) Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I hope she's doing well this morning!

    Just a quick comment about the diet -- this cat is getting M/D, not W/D. M/D is only moderately high in carbohydrate; it's Hill's version of a low-carb diet.
     
  98. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Just seeing this.
    Oh what is going on here?? Jeee... It's so amazing that all of you are helping so much! Incredible!
    Well done..

    I hope this kitty is okay.
     
  99. Karen and Flo

    Karen and Flo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Still no update? Is there a post somewhere I'm not seeing?!?!
     
  100. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm removing the 911

    Seems the emergency is over.
     

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