Hey Caninsulin Users!! Lets get some traffic here!

Discussion in 'Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH' started by higgs, Jul 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. higgs

    higgs Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Hi Everyone, i know there are some people using caninsulin and I'm one of them...

    Looks like these forums are rarely touched - feel free to chime in!

    My cat Tony is on Caninsulin and has been for just over a month now. He started off at 2 unites in the AM and PM but was upped to 4 in the morning and 3 in the evening.

    I've done a few curves and the insulin doesn't seem to be as harsh for him as some other people have suggested. I have some friends who had diabetic cats on caninsulin who are now in remission and controlled by food alone!

    hoping tony can get to that point eventually.

    Anyway, just thought i'd post something in here
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I would also post this on Health in the evening when our friends from across the pond might be online. We do have some Canninsulin users in England, but I don't think they would see this post on this forum unless you pointed it on to them. Good luck! It helps so much to have people who are using your insulin; we just have so few in the US.
     
  3. Sarah58

    Sarah58 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Hello I'm from England and my cat is a caninsulin user. I'm finding it very difficult to get his bg down, he is now on 4units twice a day, but when he has been without insulin for 12 hours overnight, he always seems livelier than when he has gone 12 hours through the day. He is 15 so age does make a difference and I am testing but getting high readings . I've just been told by the vet to increase to 4units.
     
  4. Tracy

    Tracy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Hi everyone, although we are fairly new to the this board, my fury bouddy Quincy is on Canininsulin. He gets 3u bid right now. We are set to do our first min curve on the weekend and are a bit nervous about getting him to bleed. He is doing wonderfully on the insulin as far as polyuria and polydipsia are concerned....there are none, jsut such an improvement. He is eating totally a wet diet of EVO, Wellness and a bit of Purina DM that I got conned into from the vets office when I did not know any better :? I do now thanks to this forum and just knowing what to ask the vet.

    I have no episodes of hypo with Quincy. My vet says she has seen very little of this ever occuring on Canininsulin. She has been in contact with me several times this week since we got the diagnosis and has given me good direction about how to interpret Quincy's blood sugars on Sunday. I feel much better about his diagnosis now then I did orginally.

    I lok forward to hearing what others have to say that are using this insulin.
     
  5. Maya & Neo

    Maya & Neo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Hi all,
    My furry little buddy is also on caninsulin. The vet just upped him to 5units, twice daily. I've noticed that Neo also seems more alert in the morning than during the day. He's only 2, so I don't think it's his age. I wonder what that is...
     
  6. higgs

    higgs Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    It's good to read some positives about this insulin since it seems to get such a bad rap! I haven't checked in here in a while 'cus Tony is doing well.

    he's put on over 2lbs since he was first diagnosed at the end of May! (he was way under weight) It's funny, for the past year+ he was sleeping a lot and just overall lethargic (he didn't have high sugar back then but had some dental issues)...we just thought it was because he was maturing until his teeth really started bugging him.

    Now that he's feeling better (dental done in Feb and insulin now) he is totally playful again - chasing toys around the house, he's very vocal (always yelling at us for something) etc... i haven't seen him this alert for a LOOOOoooonnnnggggg time! We're on 3 units am and pm right now and couldn't be happier!!

    He's going on about 13 years old but acting like he's 3 again. Awesome!

    I don't have a spreadsheet (i gave up on it.... lazy) but he's usually in the high teens or very low 20's pre shot in the Am and PM.
     
  7. Tracy

    Tracy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Quincy has blood sugars in the low teens and 12's pre-shot. His 6 hour post-shot on his glucose curve was 4.6 so he is now on 0.5IU's twice a day. The food made all the difference. We have had great success with Canininsulin and no hypos. Quince is an older cat at 12 years but still gives the dog a telling off on a routine basis. Much better than he was a few weeks ago :D .
     
  8. Maya & Neo

    Maya & Neo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    It's great to hear some positive stuff as well, indeed! I'm getting ready to go on holiday for a long time and I was starting to freak out about leaving Neo on Caninsulin while I was away. It sounds like some of you guys are doing really great! We're still in the high teens to low 20's ourself, but hopefully he won't have any hypo episodes while I'm gone.

    Congrats to everyone who's doing well!
     
  9. higgs

    higgs Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    We went on an extended vacation this past summer as well. We boarded Tony at the vet and they gave him his shots for about $24 per night. They didn't check his glucose before the shot though.. they wanted to charge us to use the machine so it would have been $$$$$ for each glucose check, twoce daily. we simply lowered the dose from 3U to 2U and told them if he ever goes hypo, to treat him immediately and give us a call.

    he was fine though.

    Happy to see others here doing great as well!
     
  10. Maya & Neo

    Maya & Neo Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2011
    Call me what you want, but I find it very disappointing that a vet would care more about money than the welfare of their patient. I'm very happy to hear that Tony was okay, though!

    I'm dropping our guys off tomorrow, so please send Neo positive vibes until we are back! :)
     
  11. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Hi there,
    My 12yo cat, Issey, was just diagnosed last week. After three glucose curves at the vet (morning between 16 and 20, dropping quickly to 6 and staying there all day) she is on 4iu of Caninsulin once a day at the moment. I take her back tomorrow to have a check up and pick up my glucose tester.
    Does anyone have any experience of injecting once a day compared to twice a day? Glad to see you are all doing well with the Caninsulin though - and the shots aren't nearly as bad now I have done a few. No ore sweaty palms for me - just grateful she is such a chilled out cat.
    I do have one Q though - how much food do you give your cat before injecting? My cats (I also have Issey's sister, Lily) have always grazed, so am loathe to change that and the vet advised against it. I know she gets up and eats at 6.30, so isn't massively interested at 8am (my window of opportunity within the school run chaos!) but would there still be food in her system? She will take about 10 pieces of the Hills diabetic food (the weight-loss one :oops: ) but also I know she would eat a few treats.
    Any advice would be very welcome. Best wishes to you all and your furry friends.
     
  12. Just-As-Appy

    Just-As-Appy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Once a day is not adequate dosing for Caninsulin. It barely lasts 10 hours and so for more than half a 24 hour period your cat has no benefit from insulin. That is why those numbers are so high in the morning. Hopefully when you begin testing at home you'll get a better idea of how the insulin works and see that the bg begin to rise, probably about 5 -6 hours after the shot. The 20 to 6 drop is pretty steep and is the reason that many people don't like Caninsulin, me included. I changed to Levemir which gives a much smoother and more gentle action.

    Are you in Canada? Or Europe?
     
  13. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    HI there, thanks for posting. I will certainly ask my vet tomorrow when I take Issey back for her check up. Am very keen to get my glucose monitor - my close friend has a daughter with Type 1 diabetes so am very aware of the condition and the need for constant monitoring. I hope that maybe I might be able to do 2 units am and pm instead, which might not give her such a steep curve.
    I am in the UK - will see if it is possible to be prescribed a different type of insulin. Whereabouts are you?
     
  14. Tracy

    Tracy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    I have just successfully managed a cat on Canininsulin and now have a diet controlled cat. We started at 3iu twice a day and slowly worked our way down to 0.5 twice a day and then off. It is importnat that you do twice a day dosing with this insulin and 4 units dose seem high. My cat's worst blood sugar before getting him off dry food and starting any treatment was 25. We found the Canininsulin very good and easy to use with good results. I did blood glucose curves as well and found that the peak action was at about +6 hours from dosing. My cat is a grazer as well. Our vet said there was no problem and felt this was actually best as he eats small amounts throughout the day and night which works fine with Insulin use. I jsut gave him a few special high protein, low carb treats when I would give him his insulin just to be safe. no problem there. We never had any hypo reactions which our vet said are not all that common with Canininsulin. I trust our vet as she has looked after the various members of my four footed zoo for many years and is very good.

    Hope this helps you a bit.
     
  15. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Thanks for your reply Tracy - great to learn your cat is now diet-controlled. Well done you. The problem with Issey's response is that when she is glucose tested at 7.30-8pm at night (12 hours after her first dose) she is still down in the 5s and 6s, so obviously she can't take on insulin at that point. Maybe when we are a little further along the road in a few weeks they might try her with a split dose. At the moment I am just grateful her numbers remain so stable. She is back into the vets for another glucose curve on Monday - they said they will do her every week and then every two weeks to see how she is managing. And of course I can do my own, although Issey is not a good bleeder so, bizarrely, that is the bit I am really not looking forward to. Don't mind the injections now after a week of doing them.
    Issey always eats around 6.30, and eats well, so the vet told me to try bringing her shot forward to 7.15-7.30 as she would still have plenty of food on board and I would not need to worry so much about getting lots of food in her before I shoot.
    I guess this whole journey is about trying different things until we find a regime that really suits her, so I am trying not to get too stressed about it, but very encouraging to read of your success, so thanks for posting.
     
  16. Tracy

    Tracy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    With us, when Quncy tested low that was when we knew it was time to drop the dose. I am wondering if perhaps the 4 units is just too much and it is taking Issey too much time to recover back to a more normal blood sugar. That did happen to us but once the dose was dropped and as Quincy got used to the wet food, things happened quickly. Are you feeding only wet? For us, that was a big piece of the puzzle. Just some things you may want to consider. We went from 25 one week to 10 the next on wet food and further down after that.

    I don't know how oftent he vet is adjsuting the dose but we did ours once a week with a glucose curve at the end of 7 days before the next dose adjustment would happen.

    With blood tests, are you warming the ear with a rice sac? did the vet shave the fur on an ear to help you see the vein? Although they appear small, when you shave the ear and warm it, then put your thumb on part of the vien, they just pop making it much easier to get the blood.
     
  17. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Am hoping that when she goes back to have her curve done on Monday - which is a week really since I took her home after her diagnosis - that they will be able to then start tweaking and so on. Feel a bit shell-shocked still, as I am sure everyone does, after finding out your cat is diabetic.
    I have been reading that absolutely fantastic resource from Janet and Binky about food, so although I came home from the vets after diagnosis with a bag of the Hills diabetes dry food (the weight-loss one as Issey is about half a KG overweight, which I guess isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps what tipped her over the edge).
    Before I always fed them a pouch of wet food between them morning and night, with biscuits down for them to graze on all day. I think I am going to experiment with diet - what do you recommend on the wet food front?
    Have to say though that everyone at the vets is being incredibly proactive - they open seven days a week and are happy for me to call or just come in at any time even if I have just a stupid question to ask... They want to see her every week to do a curve there to monitor her progress until everyone is happy that she is stable.
    Being an Oriental, I am lucky that Issey has large and relatively unfurry ears to aim for and am certainly going to warm it beforehand. Have got a couple of those microwave sacks that my daughter likes to take to bed in the winter, so might give one of those a go, or make my own rice sack - thanks for the tip.
     
  18. Tracy

    Tracy New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    I primarily feed Wellness (grain free) or Evo (95% grain free) and no wet foods with sauces or gravies as they are heavy on carbs which you definitely do not want. Please read some of the posts on home testing . You will save yourself a lot money at the vets. There are also very good you tube videos on home testing. As well, cats have a reaction when they are stressed that causes their blood sugar to go up. The visit to the vet will do that and you will have readings that may not be true.

    Please DO NOT FEED ANY DRY FOOD. Get your darling Issey on wet food only and only the kinds that is high protein and low carb. Make sure their are no fillers. Janet and Binky's list is wonderful.

    I understand being shell-shocked (I was there not all that long ago) but you will quickly get control of things if you make three main changes....
    1.Don't feed any more dry what-so-ever
    2. Do home testing
    3. Get on twice a day dosing with Caninsulin.

    I did just that, read all I could find on this website and now have a cat who is sleek, happy and off the juice.
     
  19. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Have been searching for foods I can get here in the UK. There is a brand I have found called Orijen, which has 80 per cent meat, 20 per cent fruit and veg and 0% grain and am trying to find some low-carb wet food as Issey does like that that in a morning.
    And do carbs have the same reaction in cats as they do us humans - ie are there some carbs that are better than others on the glycemic index? Not that she would like brown rice though... ;-)
    The last two days now she seems rather more like her normal self, so am really hoping she might be settling into a routine with it, so fingers crossed I can now push on from here and get the food sorted.

    Hoping that the glucose monitor will have arrived at the vets tomorrow, so I can start home testing. Out of interest, do you guys test on the outside of the ear or the inside?
     
  20. moof86

    moof86 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Good morning Catherine! Saw your post on my other board, but thought I'd pop in here :) Ebay may become your new best friend for home testing supplies, because without a prescription from your GP, this stuff is spendy! (Boots was going to charge me £14 for 200 lancets, picked up off of ebay for a fiver!)

    Regarding food in the UK, up until the sugar cat, I've fed my civvie cat Applaws dry food, which is similar to Orijen in that it's 80% protien and between 12.5 and 15% carbs. That being said, I'm not going to risk any dry food on the sugar cat, his numbers are too high as it is, not worth the risk!

    Other options will include, Purina Gourmet (it's basically Fancy Feast), Feline Fayre is also a very good quality supermarket brand, available at Morrison's, Asda, and B+M homestores. Nature's Menu also looks very good, but I haven't tried it myself. (http://www.petplanet.co.uk/category.asp?dept_id=787 this website's got them £6 for a 12pack, bargain!) Applaws (also known as Encore in the supermarket) also do a wet food, but it's not complete, so not ideal if that's the only thing you're feeding.

    The other bit is to do with insulin. We are techcnically able to move to other insulins, but we/the vets, have to go through 'Cascade' which is basically if it can be shown the approved vet version isn't working, we can try other options. (http://www.bsava.com/Advice/BSAVAGuidet ... fault.aspx) So there is a burden of proof there, but if your vet is willing to work with you, then you might be in luck! I'm in a rather weird position in that the Cats Protection is paying for my syringes and insulins for life, so I'm going to try and make a really good effort wih the Canninsulin, if even just for the sake of that.

    Otherwise, Morky and me are getting into the swing of things and I know I'm feeling a lot better with a days worth of numbers behind me. Let me know if I can help, I'm still very new myself, but as I had warning a diabetic cat was coming into my life, I've had some time to go and do my research. :)

    All the best!!
     
  21. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Thanks for all the advice.
    When I took Issey into the vet this afternoon (she gets to have a sleepover so they can start the curve early) I bought some different types of food from Pets at Home to try when she gets back tomorrow night. I got four different flavours of the Applaws (Chicken breast and Ostrich???), a pot of Nature's Harvest (ingredients: chicken 90%, scottish salmon oil, cranberry, taurine, minerals and vitamins - protein 13%, fat 8%, ash 3% fibre .8% moisture 74%) and a pot of Pets At Home's own brand Purely, which seems to have exactly the same ingredients as nature's Harvest.
    I checked out the ingredient list of the Hill's MD food the vet prescribed and it is 15% starch, so will keep looking.
    She had her jab this morning at 8 and when she was just pricked at the vet on arrival it was 4.1, which seems quite low, but I guess was just before tea time.

    How is Morky today?
     
  22. moof86

    moof86 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Hi Catherine! No problem! I was struggling the first couple of days, particularly with the foods, because we just don't have the same brands! All of those looks great (I'm kinda obsesessed with applaws, the wet stuff looks good enough to stir some mayo in and stick between bread!) I picked up some of the purely dehydrated fish snacks, £1.20 or something (bargain!). Morky came home from Cats Protection with 24 cans of hills MD wet and 5kg of the dry stuff (bless their hearts, didn't charge me a penny for it!) I'm using the cans, but the dry food is just hanging out, waiting for a hypo I suppose! Might put it up on ebay then donate the proceeds back to CP (as I'm meant to be using it :roll: )

    Definitely let me know how she gets on! Her curve might come back higher then you expect, as others have reported the vet stresses out the kitties and pushes the curve up. Sounds like you'll be ready for Issey when she gets home, fingers crosed it goes well for you at the vet!

    Morky's good, his numbers were looking pretty good today, so I've decided to give his poor wee ears a night off! (And I'm going through test strips like they're free, lol!) But it's nice to feel that I've kinda got a handle on this. How long ago was Issey diagosed?
     
  23. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    She was diagnosed about 10 days ago, so am very new to this! I just posted over on our thread on the other board about today's little hypo treat!
    Let me know when you put the dry stuff on ebay! I'm sticking with it for a month or so until I have found something different Issey will eat with as much enthusiasm as she is a grazer, really.
    I think you are doing brilliantly. I am going to try doing a curve in a week's time - once Issey's ears have recovered from today!
     
  24. Sarah58

    Sarah58 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Catherine, I'm in England and the food I use is Natures Menu, also Encore from Sainsbury's which is the same as Applaws. My Clark also loves raw chicken.
     
  25. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    You can feed wet food to a grazer by making frozen pucks. I use a silicone cupcake pan, fill the cups with wet food and freeze. They pop right out. Most cats are willing to chew on them as they thaw, letting them graze.
     
  26. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Thanks for your help everyone. Will check out Sainsburys. Applaws Tuna and Sea Bream flavour was accepted this morning - Chicken and Ostrich ( :roll: ) rejected. Thankfully though, both cats - I have Issey's sister, Lily, too - seem to be happy with what I am giving them both. It's hard to change a regime after 12 years, isn't it!
    Issey's numbers were a little higher today, but I understand this is a natural reaction after a hypo? Will see how they are tomorrow. Is hard to get a correct morning figure, tbh, as she likes to eat at 6.30am and I am not up til seven, so will make a real effort to try and grab her beforehand one morning.
    The good news is she is grooming herself again and is very chatty, so hopefully she is starting to feel a little more like her old self.
    Again, thanks to everyone for just being here.
     
  27. mrswoodwoose

    mrswoodwoose Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    I find that Natures Menu brings my cats BG right down. Please don't forget that Applaws wet is not a balanced food. I am not impressed that the only choice we are offered at the vet is Caninsulin and once my Insuvet is finished I will be asking for Hypurin Bovine.
     
  28. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Yes, I guess it's a bit different here than in the US isn't it? But my vet says that he is able to prescribe lots of other insulins because of the "cascade" principle. However, he said the problem is with prescribing "human" stuf is that it costs a blinking fortune. And I know he is right. Issey, my sugarcat, has also suffered from mild asthma all her life. Because she is so tolerant, we stopped the steroid tablets years ago and went for inhalers and a "spacer" mask - exactly the same inhalers as humans have. And just ONE cost me the best part of 70 quid - you know, the ones the NHS give willy nilly to people who have a bit of a cough now and again. :roll:

    Thanks for the Natures Menu advice. Am still working my way through the Hills MD - just so they have a bit of crunch as they love dry food, so am balancing the other wet food with that while I cast round for a low carb dry food.

    Think her BG seems finally to be stabilising, touch wood... it's quite a rollercoaster.
     
  29. mrswoodwoose

    mrswoodwoose Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    The best dry food is Orijin and then Applaws. Have you checked out the zooplus site as they have good nutritional info on the foods available. Just be aware that changing food can lower BG.
     
  30. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Thanks - and you are absolutely right. Issey's levels have been really high, even with a 4iu dose in the morning and 3.5 at night, but I changed her on to the dry Applaws on Friday from the Hills and the next day, for the first time EVER, I had a reading of 6.0 at six hours past her shot. Her morning and evening numbers are getting lower too - tonight's was 21.9 (which is good for her) so I am really hopeful now that we can see some lower figures and then start getting the dosage down.
    Will check out that Zooplus site and also look at Orijen.
     
  31. Raggie Doll

    Raggie Doll Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2011
    hi I'm actually pretty new at this i took in a foster cat with diabetes the owners didn't have it under control what so ever and she is on caninsulin 2 ties a day at 3 units. She was having readings of over 33 and she was given Hills and she refused to eat it then i gave her RC which is ridiculous cause it has min of 24% carbs so i put her on botiza and then she dropped to 20.3 which was great, but to be honest I'm not convinced the caninsulin is working for her she has been on it for over a month and she is quite weak and very moody, attacking the other cats. I have been told only 60% of cats respond to it so she may be one of the 40%

    I do think that food is a big part of it cause when i stopped giving food with carbs her BG dropped still not enough but better than it was
     
  32. CatherineandIssey

    CatherineandIssey Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Hi Raggie, just replied to your post on the main board.

    Catherine
     
  33. RockStar033

    RockStar033 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    So glad to find this post!
    My Annie was recently diagnosed last week and was put on Caninsulin at 2u BID. Everything I've read in this board says its the worst one for cats but it's stressing me out even more knowing that. This puts me more at ease about it. I guess when I take her back for her first check up I'll see how it's working.

    Just bought a home test meter today so I'm excited to start using it once I learn how.
     
  34. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If you look at the post just above yours, it is dated November 2011.... nobody seems to post in this forum, so you are better off posting in the health forum and then when you switch to a better insulin, you can move over to the Lantus or Levemir forum.

    Pretty much people in the UK are forced to use Caninsulin as the vets overseas seem to think it is a good insulin? It's not, but it is also very difficult for the UK owners to get a prescription from their vets.

    Being Canadian, we are extremely fortunate because we can just go into any pharmacy, and ask for a package of Lantus cartridges or Levemir cartridges.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page