High BG Side Effects

With the advice of several people in the forum, we are testing Bear frequently and adjusting his dosage based on if he goes below a BG of 90, he gets a 0.25 reduction. He is currently getting 1.25 CC's of Prozinc twice daily. Since yesterday evening he has been quite high and is now in a "bad mood"; this is a mood often experienced in this house where all he wants is to go outside to try and eat grass (which he always gets sick from so he hasn't gone out today) and if he can't, then he takes to getting in my face to try to lick and bite me, he will go around the house biting furniture and meowing. Just sort of acting like a crazy person.
We never know what to do when he gets like this.
Has anyone experienced this? Are these moods a side effect of high blood glucose? Is there anything we can do to help make him feel better? Cat pheromones seem to help calm him only for a few minutes and he is back in your face. He is still loosing weight, I'm not exactly sure but I would guess he is now between 6-7lbs and not improving. We are trying to get his numbers in order and are feeding him anytime he is hungry to try and get the weight to stick.
Help, advice, anything is appreciated.

 

You'll get more replies if you repost this in Feline Health. Sorry, I'm not a Prozinc user.

Think Tank Not for individual cat questions

 

Oh I definitely can relate. My cat Oscar has been going through something really similar. He isn't regulated yet, and he spends the majority of his time in yellow and purple numbers lately, but has the occasional black, and the more than occasional red.

Oscar has been acting bipolar, except I've been having trouble figuring out if when he acts out it's because he's in low numbers and feels good, or because he's in low numbers and feels irritable. We go through the same thing with high numbers, but he acts closest to himself when he's in high numbers (I take that is because it's what he's been used to for so long).

I currently live with a roommate who has dogs. Me and my cats have the upstairs and my roommate and her dog has the downstairs. They are separated by a gate, and after a couple years of this being the norm, the cats/dog understand this and never try to venture in the other's territory. Normally, the cats at most will sit on the ledge that leads to the downstairs....but it's been about a year since one of my cats has even attempted to jump into the downstairs (and even then, it's my other cat, never Oscar). Well after Oscar got his shot this morning, guess where I heard Oscar walking around meowing from? ….downstairs. He has literally never done this, he found his way into our laundry room where he's never been before. Totally out of character for him. Lately he will go from jumping around like a kitten (with more energy then he ever had before diabetes) and the next minute he will be laying down, wanting nothing to do with anyone, hiding from his sisters. When I say he acts like he's bipolar, I can't think of a better way to explain- both the highs and lows aren't what he used to act like pre diagnosis.

By the way, the eating grass thing that Bear has been wanting to do lately, I know that cats will often instinctually eat grass because they know it makes them sick. I have another cat who is very prone to hairballs, and whenever one is coming on, she will sit by the front door and meow until I get her grass, and she eats it to help her get the hairball up. Maybe Bear is feeling like he needs to get something up? Just an idea, and may be completely different since this is a diabetic kitty we're talking about, and they are hungry all the time....maybe he's just hungry and that's not the case.

ETA: This is totally anecdotal, you should post to feline health or prozinc to get some help and information from the more knowledgeable users there

 

Thank you! I’ll do that.

 

Moved from Think Tank:
With the advice of several people in the forum, we are testing Bear frequently and adjusting his dosage based on if he goes below a BG of 90, he gets a 0.25 reduction. He is currently getting 1.25 CC's of Prozinc twice daily. Since yesterday evening he has been quite high and is now in a "bad mood"; this is a mood often experienced in this house where all he wants is to go outside to try and eat grass (which he always gets sick from so he hasn't gone out today) and if he can't, then he takes to getting in my face to try to lick and bite me, he will go around the house biting furniture and meowing. Just sort of acting like a crazy person.
We never know what to do when he gets like this.
Has anyone experienced this? Are these moods a side effect of high blood glucose? Is there anything we can do to help make him feel better? Cat pheromones seem to help calm him only for a few minutes and he is back in your face. He is still loosing weight, I'm not exactly sure but I would guess he is now between 6-7lbs and not improving. We are trying to get his numbers in order and are feeding him anytime he is hungry to try and get the weight to stick.
Help, advice, anything is appreciated.

 

I’m still trying to learn how long we should keep at his current dose after he continues producing high numbers! I know that the bouncing effect is still on him and that he may have to have another reduction, so basically just waiting for that to happen.
But I also know at the core, all cats have that crazy side, it’s just when things get too crazy that you know something is WRONG not just silly lol. Oscar sounds similar to Bear for sure! I just don’t want the high numbers to be hurting him, and his behavior is a cry for help that I’m not helping him with.

 

Welcome to you and Bear. I bet you are giving him 1.25 units of PZ and not 1.25ccs which is the same as 1.25 mls. There are 100u in a ml

Those symptoms are not a hallmark of high BGs. My concern is more if he’s doing it because of low numbers. You caught him at 60 on 1.5u. That’s fairly low on an AT. I’m glad you reduced the dose. However, with all the data you are missing, he could be going lower.

It’s really imperative that you always get a preshot test. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve responded to 911 condos where the caregiver has woken up to a 43 or 27! Yes, you could be shooting insulin into numbers like that if you aren’t testing before you shoot.

It looks to me like he’s bouncing into higher numbers because he’s dropping faster or going to low ones.

I have heard of cats who are running lower acting agitated. Of course if he’s like this when numbers are high, it could also be due to the roller coaster he’s on.

We can help you get him into better numbers. My suggestions are:

• Never miss a preshot test
• Try to get a couple of tests, vary each cycle, between +3 and +9 with at least one each cycle between +4 and +7
• Post on the PZ insulin support group of this forum for more specific help with PZ. There are less posters there than on Health and they all use PZ.

I hope that will get you started to better numbers.

I also merged your Think Tank thread with this one.

 

It looks like Bear is bouncing again and that might be from another lower BG he is not used to or going too low that you haven't caught with testing. You are doing great getting some mid cycle and night tests BUT there are still some pre-shots missing and that is concerning because you need to test before shots to ensure it is safe to give insulin at all.

Given the number of lows he's had recently, I would suggest no dose unless BG is over 200 at shot time. If BG is 200 or less, stall. Don't feed Bear and retest in 20 to 30 minutes to see if BG is rising on it own. Post for help if BG remains below 200.

I agree with Marje. Most cats get more lethargic with high BG numbers but if BG drops low, they can get seriously assertive about getting your attention. If Bear acts like that, I'd suggest you test his BG and see if he is giving you a warning that his BG is dropping.

 

Yes units! Lol sorry about that. We will make sure to always pretest him; it’s quite difficult sometimes as we have 2 other cats and 2 dogs, everyone gets fed at the same time. It’s not an excuse, just hard when Bear knows what time it is. He is often waking me up in bed so he can eat. We will try to make adjustments and get better testing.

 

Had you thought about getting Bear some cat grass? You can sometimes find it at a pet food store or online. Chewy's stocks a kit so you can grow the grass and bring the outdoors inside.

 

He was over 200 and ate almost the whole can, so we did give insulin. I have a feeling that this dose will have to get lowered as well but of course waiting for the numbers to reflect that. Just his weight is so worrisome.

 

Yes I have done that before and none of our cats were interested but I could definitely try again. Thank you!

 

Looks like Bear is coming down from the bounce so be sure to get a test in sometime between +4 and +7 to see what he's doing today.

How often are you feeding Bear? Is he still on the Purina Pro Plan?

Once Bear gets regulated he should start regaining some weight. In the meantime you could try to find a higher calorie low carb food for him. There is a great food list here. You want food under 10% carbs and preferably 6% or under. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...m6PPfEUz9YmzMGMxkmcBk6uRR0/edit#gid=113878384

 

Can I ask you to do a little housekeeping? Can you please change the name on your spreadsheet to include Bear's name? When we are helping, we sometimes are dealing with more than one kitty at a time and it makes it much easier and prevents confusion if we can see the name of the kitty on the spreadsheet. Don't want to get kitties confused. Thx.

 

Hey, welcome.
Just a thought, have you let him have some grass so he can be sick? I know when Toby has his pancreatitis rumbling he is desperate to get outside too, he is sick and then he feels so much better, its almost like it clears the acid. He also has higher BG numbers when he has his pancreatitis episodes and I know he feels rubbish. He scratches the side of my bed so I wake up to cuddle or feed him.
With regards to the putting on weight, I have been feeding some low carb kitten food which is typically 2-3% higher in fat.

I hope Bear feels better soon.

Kate

 

I am not home to update the spreadsheet but will this evening! At lunch his number read 422!
I have used that spreadsheet and it is very helpful. Unfortunately he has so incredibly picky that nothing is sticking. Right now he is on a mix of Purina Pro Plan both pate and gravy and he also gets Fancy Feast Classic.

 

Oh yes, he goes outside frequently! Unfortunately all our grass in the neighborhood is in a dead state. I’m going to try and grow some for him to see if he takes to it.
I never thought of trying kitten food that’s a good tip. Thank you

 

No worries about those high numbers. That appears to be a bounce likely from a lower BG later last night sometime after you tested at +5. That likely accounts for the lower AMPS this AM too. He was probably just starting to rise again. Bounces are an annoying part of the diabetes over which we have no control. They happen when BG drops quickly, drops lower than kitty is use to or drops too low.
Still test pre-shot and get a mid cycle test as bounces can break at any time but can also last for up to 6 cycles (3 days). Patience is key. You don't need to adjust dose at this time.

 

I just tested Bear, right before feeding him and giving him his injection and his BG level showed 651. Is this cause for immediate concern?!

 

No it's not an immediate concern. It may just be an excessive bounce. If BG starts staying up, then we need to figure out why and deal with it. Is it possible Bear got into some contraband he shouldn't have?

 

I don't think there was anything that he would have had access to, however I can look around the house just to be sure. Thank you for the timely response, was a moment of shock to see a number that high.

 

Just this week we have noticed a spike in his appetite. He is finishing more of his food in a smaller window rather than slowly eating it throughout the day. Once he has finished his bowl, he is ready for more. I know I’ve read about the importance of feeding times with diabetics and how it’s best to not have food at all times of the day, true?
However, because he is just a bag of bones right now, I am giving him all food that he wants. Until he starts retaining weight should I keep doing this? Or am I doing more harm than good?

 

Diabetics are always hungry because they cannot utilize the food they eat properly. While having scheduled mealtimes is optimal, a lot of folks just let their cats free feed except for the period 2 hours prior to shot time so the pre-shot test is not food influenced. Many vets seem to still advice feeding only at shot time but that is old school stuff and feeding at shot time plus snacks at other times seems to work much better. That said, it's better to have the majority of food intake in the first half of the cycles if possible as feeding later in the cycle can shorten insulin duration but that again can be different for each cat.

If Bear needs to gain weight, don't be afraid to up his food allowance. You might want to try some low carb higher calorie food to help him regain the lost weight. There are some kitten foods that meet that criteria. Check out Dr. Lisa's food list and I'm sure you can find something a little higher calorie for Bear.