Hills Presciption food to high in carbs?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Deborah W., Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    Just got back from the vet for Rocky's checkup and vaccine update. Since starting him on his diabetic diet there has been very little poop in his litter box, sometimes none. The vet seemed to think there wasn't enough fiber in his food. I had taken some advice from the forums here and started him on Fancy Feast food. His blood sugar has been like Jekyll and Hyde but after a couple of days on FF his numbers are down. The vet scoffed and said this food might taste good but wasn't good for his diabetes. She talked me into taking home a few cans of the Hills w/d. When I got home I looked up the carb content online and was appalled to see it was 24%. Has anyone had an issue with their cats being constipated from the high protein diet? Is Fancy Feast not good for him even though his numbers are down?
    He did test high at the vet, but he gets stressed out from the car ride.
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    First, let me say that a LOT of people feed Fancy Feast and love it. I fed it to my girls in the beginning of their transition to wet because it was the only food I tried that they would eat enough of. While they ate it, they had poop issues. I had to add a little pumpkin to their food and even had to use Miralax for Willow at one point. They did not poop often enough, and when they did, it was small, hard and dark. Willow ended up having an anal sac rupture due to her poop not expressing her anal glands properly. So, I stopped the FF right then and never fed it again. Once I did deeper research into cat food ingredients, I really was not comfortable with some things in FF anyway. I feel much better about the Weruva they eat now, and we have had no poop issues! (It is actually higher in protein, too.)
     
  3. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I love sharing this video:

    It's specific to switching to raw food, but I noticed the same thing, but to a lesser degree, moving from high carb to low carb.

    If it's to the degree @FurBabiesMama is describing though, then yes a food switch would be in order. Mine did just fine on Fancy Feast and Friskies until we made the switch to raw, so it may just be the change in what you're used to seeing.
     
  4. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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  5. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

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    Feb 25, 2017
    Hi @Deborah W.
    Please be aware that feeding low carbs diet - such as FF pates can lower the BG level on its own but when you add a dose of insulin to it it can cause dangerous Hypoglycemia. Please do test at home, at least prior to administering the insulin dose, especially if you switched to low carbs.
    If your kitty had a kidney problems (unfortunately, kidney problems are often the companion of diabetics) then the FF pates are not good BC they are high in Phosphorous which damages cat's kidneys. Other than that - it is ok for FD cats. Is that what your vet meant, by not good? The kidney problem?
    I thought it was 27% carbs...:stop:
    Anyway, not a food for cats.. let alone the diabetic ones!
    It's awful, actually. IMHO.
    Unfortunately, unless you test at home and maintain a record as a spreadsheet I am not able to answer. sorry.
    What do you mean by lower numbers?
    Most vets say it is OK for a cat to be around 200 on a human meter.
    I prefer lower than that, much lower.

    If you can try adding some extra warm water into his food - mix it like a soup or a pate. Hydration should help with bowel movement. Cats were made to eat proteins..hard to accept that the food they were designed to thrive on are not good for them..
    BTW, FF pates are not high in protein - rather higher in Fat.
    Unless there is some digestive issues I would not expect a cat to go plugged on good proteins.

    There are plenty of reasons why cats can become constipated.
    Many people on this Board had dealt with it and will share their knowledge.
    If yo u haven't gotten an answer just please keep asking the ?
    Someone w/ similar experience will see your post sooner or later.
     
  6. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    @FurBabiesMama I have been looking at wet food alternatives also, and am trying to find local sources. Unfortunately I haven't been successful, because I just want to try one can of one flavor to see if he likes it, not buy a case and have it sit there. The pet stores here that I have found carry the brands don't have the lower carb varieties and would have to order a case. Are you buying the Weruva you give your kitties from Chewy? It looks as if my choice is to go that route for either that brand or the Tikki Cat that looked promising, plus order enough to get the free shipping. Any other suggestions.
     
  7. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
  8. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Hi Sharon, good to see you. You sent the heat didn't you? Thanks for the link, I will look that up. I think Idjit has sunburned ears.
     
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  9. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    I have cases of it auto shipped from hollywoodfeed.com. They have the best price that I found when deciding where to get it.

    Did you enter your zip code on the Weruva site to see if there is a store in your area that carries it? http://www.weruva.com/stores.php
     
  10. Harley Baby & Michele

    Harley Baby & Michele Member

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    Jun 3, 2018
    Referencing above post #3 by Djamila: Is anyone familiar with the litter box in the video? I love that it is so long. I made a litter box out of a large storage bin and cut a door on the wide side. It keeps the litter in better that my Little Darlings like to kick out. But now instead of standing the widest length my little 20# chunky monkey faces the short width with his cute little rump hanging out the door. I have used the largest litter boxes I could find and they fit OK but tons of litter were kicked out daily. A large "under the bed" bin has sides that are much to short.

    So, if you know where that bin came from I would love to purchase it.
     
  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    You could always add a teaspoon of plain canned pumpkin to the ff food if he needs a little fiber.
     
  12. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Thank you so much. These are the same stores that supposedly stocked the Tiki Cat, I will give them each a call and see what they have on the shelves.
     
  13. JeanW

    JeanW Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    If you order from Chewy and your cats don't like it, call them and they will refund the money.
     
  14. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    Oh, didn't know that, Thanks very much!!
     
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  15. JeanW

    JeanW Member

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    Jul 24, 2017
    Are you trying to find Tiki cat food or what are you looking for? I have no idea where you're located but Sprout's grocery stores usually have Tiki cat food or they did the last time I was there.
     
  16. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

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    Apr 3, 2018
    I am from Spokane Washington, I don't think we have Sprout's grocery stores here. But, I have not given up looking for local sources. Idjit is perfectly happy with his Fancy Feast and Friskies, but I am thinking I would like to try some higher protein, lower phosphorus foods for him, like Tiki Cat or Weruva. I have another source where I can order by the can, but not sure the shipping cost is worth it. Been busy helping DH with some health issues and life style changes. But I will continue my search for the cat foods. Thanks very much for your input and suggestions. :)
     
  17. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
  18. HereKittyKittyKitty

    HereKittyKittyKitty Member

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    Aug 23, 2016
    The photo and video are tagged Feline Nutrition .org

    Don't know of that particular litter box, but I got a huge, high-sided, triangular one from PetSmart and put it in a corner with a big, plastic, square appliance tray (Lowe's) underneath. No litter or anything else on the floor outside the tray, even when kitty was sick (use your imagination). The tray sweeps clean (dry) or wipes clean (wet).

    Lowe's, Home Depot, and Menard's all sell really large, deep storage containers... the Rubbermaid ones are stronger/less likely to break than the Serlite ones. Some have objectionable plastic/chemical odors, but Rubbermaid makes food-safe ones :mad: You might have to go to/order these from restaurant supply.

    I use a medium sized Rubbermaid one for travel because I can cover it between uses. No spills, no odor in the car, and the dog stays out of the litter :joyful:
     
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  19. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    Vet didn't say anything about kidney problems. I think that she was pushing the Hills food. I am now feeding him the Fancy Feast Roasted Chicken or Turkey. He is back to pooping and normal urine. His BG levels have dropped dramatically so much so that I am afraid of a hypoglycemic event. I am doing home testing and today 2 hours after insulin injection he was a BG 57. I gave him a little Karo syrup and fed him. I have seen conflicting information on what a cats ideal BG should be. One site said between 64 and 170 and another said it should never fall below 100. He is not exhibiting any concerning signs of hypoglycemia other than always being hungry. I wonder if I should skip an insulin shot or reduce the dose. Unfortunately, my vet is not good at returning calls and/or wants me to bring him in for testing which spikes his BG. Basically she is no help. Unfortunately, we are in a very remote area and don't have any other option.

     
  20. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    I should add that I am checking his blood at home and keeping a chart. For the last week his BG has been mostly in the 180-150 range. Twice it was over 200 in the A.M. pre-injection and three times under 100: 81 and 93 at six hours post injection and 57 at two hours post injection.
     
  21. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    If you good take a few minutes and set up one of the spreadsheets with your test results and insulin doses given, it would be very helpful... not only to you in keeping up with everything, but also to us when you ask for advice. The color coding on it helps you see patterns much easier than just a log of numbers would.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

    When did you change the food? That likely caused a big drop in his numbers. If he was 57 at +2, his dose definitely needs to be reduced. Are you using a human meter or a pet one? (Please add the meter that you are using to your signature.)

    If you want to start a new thread over on the ProZinc forum, that is the best place for those of us with ProZinc experience to help you with dosing. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
     
  22. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    I'm still getting familiar with how this site works so please bear with me. I have set up a spread sheet and it is very helpful. Using Alpha Trak to test the blood. I changed food on July 13. He had just gone to the vet and had his vaccines updated. His BG was 527. I have been giving Rocky 3 units of insulin twice daily per my Vets instruction. I just tested him at 8:00 p.m. PST, his usual shot time and he was at 126. Tossed up about not giving him his shot or just reducing amount.
     
  23. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    What did you end up doing? Skipping would not be a bad idea at a 126 pre-shot # using the AT meter until you can share your test data so we can offer some suggestions on dose. The 3u is too much for him based on the 57 you got earlier and the fact that his current PS number is so low. Could you please put a link to your spreadsheet in your signature so we can see your test data? Once you do that, I suggest you start a post on the ProZinc forum to begin discussing dosing. Just click here then click 'post new thread' at the top right of the page: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    I think it would be a good idea to lower your dose to 2 units and get tests in to see what the levels are. If the preshot is that low he may have been too low mid cycle. Can you put a link to your spreadsheet in your signature?
     
  25. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    I'm not sure how to post a link to my spreadsheet. It's on my desktop. I ended up skipping his dose last night and his BG was 382 this at 7:00 after my husband had just fed him. I gave him an injection and backed off to 2 units and will monitor him.

     
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  26. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Are you using Google Sheets to do the spreadsheet?
     
  27. Deborah W.

    Deborah W. New Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    No it's in EXCEL. I was able to upload a copy of the file. It's attached below.
     

    Attached Files:

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  28. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    If you use Google Sheets, not only can you update it any time from any computer, but you can also share it out (read only) and put a link in your signature so people here can view your numbers. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    Wow.. that bright green background color makes it harder to see the test result color coding.. also, that is the same color that will be used for cells when the BG is below 68 (in hypo range).

    It is best if you always get a pre-shot test in. You had a 93 a couple of days ago at +6 after a 3.5u dose, but there is no pre-shot number, so no way to see how much of a drop that was. The pre-shot test is also important to let you know that it is safe to give the planned dose. 2u probably is a good point to start from now. It is usually best to hold doses for at least a couple of days to really be able to judge their impact (the exception being if you get a pre-shot number that is very low to the point that the dose would not be safe). So, get in what testing you can on the 2units so that you can see the impact and determine whether that is the right dose or if another adjustment is needed.
     

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