Hometesting number is 506!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Susan and Timmy, Jan 11, 2017.

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  1. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    I am not sure where to post this. We had a problem with Timmy's numbers going lower than expected last night. I was guided through with the help of the wonderful folks here.

    This morning he is a 506! I did not give him his injection last night so it was expected to be high.

    He ate his wet food just now.

    ***How much insulin to give him. Vet had him on Vetsulin 4 units, which I am learning was really high. I am thinking 2 units and monitor him closely. Is that what you all would do?
     
  2. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2016
    Sorry that no one got back to you right away. That is a really high dose of vetsulin. I have learned on here that it is better to give a lower dose following a low drop if BG is high when next shot is due.
    I had that experience with smoky a few times and always gave him a lower dose the next time around. He may be in a bounce so I would give him two units if it were my cat. Plus, vetsulin hits fast and hard. Smoky would drop by 200 or more in 4 hours after his shot. I would definitely monitor him today if you can.
     
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  3. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi--

    Not a Vetsulin expert so I can't give a recommendation here, but I'm tagging @Squalliesmom, and @Mum of two felines because they were able to help on last night's thread. @Critter Mom has also used Vetsulin in the past and may be able to offer some advice.

    You definitely do want to get that number down. Just to confirm: you are able to monitor closely today?

    For anyone jumping in, here's the history from the last thread:

    Monday amps: 407
    "throughout the day" (not sure of times): 259, 224, 198
    Monday pmps: 401
    Tuesday amps: 378
    [no midday tests?]
    Tuesday pmps: 194 no shot
    Wednesday amps 506

    Timmy is currently transitioning from an all-dry diet to a mix of dry and low-carb wet.

    Edit for additional history from last thread: diagnosed 3 weeks ago, initial dose 2U bid, increased to 3U and 4U following weekly curves.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  4. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    One more thing, how long has he been on the vetsulin? Smoky was taking it for two and a half months and did very poorly on it. Every cat is different though and he may do well on the vetsulin.
     
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  5. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Adding: I'm sorry no one got back to you earlier. If you have already done the shot (of whatever dose you were comfortable with), my advice is to now try to get some good data to try to help figure out how Timmy is responding to the insulin by monitoring throughout the day. As @Lisa and Smoky said, Vetsulin tends to hit fast, so if you could get a test in an hour or two hours after the shot, that would be great. If you then post that number here, I'm sure people will be able to jump in and give some guidance for the rest of the day with respect to further testing and feeding-- many more people on the boards are comfortable giving that kind of advice than are comfortable giving specific dosing advice, so I'm sure you'll get more prompt feedback.

    We also have a particular spreadsheet that most of us use and put into our signature at the bottom of posts. It's a great way for not only you to keep track of Timmy's numbers, but also to get the quickest help because people can quickly scan the spreadsheet and get the whole history. Instructions are in this post in the Tech Support section: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    shout out for help if you have any problems with it, and let us know how you and Timmy are doing today!
     
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  6. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I am, too. I responded to your other post, before I saw this one.

    I actually overslept this AM because I was up all night with my kitty, who was having an episode of very low BG. He earned another dose reduction! :)
     
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  7. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Thank you for responding. I gave him 2 units of Vetsulin at 10:00. Normally he gets insulin at 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. He has been on Vetsulin since December 14, 2016. I will test him now and post. I am home today with him. Very scared for him and the hypo. I made the decision this Sunday to test. Thank goodness I did. I am not good at it yet, but he is tolerant of it, and me trying to help him.

    Be back after I test him.
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @S. Russman, @Nan & Amber - Just saw the tag. Sorry I couldn't reply earlier (not online). I'm really not feeling well at all so may be very hit 'n' miss for the time being.

    @S. Russman - As Nan has already recommended above, if you can get a spreadsheet going for Timmy it will help you to better understand his response to his insulin and also help members here to offer better suggestions to you. If you have the BG numbers for the vet curves it would be great if you could include those numbers as well as the BG tests you've done at home; the more info the better.

    Here's another link to help you with the spreadsheet:

    Understanding the spreadsheet grid

    Also, because Timmy's not yet regulated it's an advisable precaution to test regularly for urine ketones. Here are some helpful stickies:

    Are you testing kitty for ketones?

    Tips for catching and testing urine samples

    You should be able to pick up the urine test strips at a pharmacy or at Walmart (e.g. Keto-diastix, Relion ketone test strips).


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  9. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Goodness! Way to get the bean's attention, Squallie!
     
  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    If you could manage it while you're home today, doing a test every 2 hours up to and including next preshot test (more if Timmy runs lower - post for help) would give you a home curve so that you can see how low the 2IU dose will take Timmy today and also give you an idea of how long the dose lasts.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  11. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Just tested him at 12:30. He is at 297.
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    How many hours ago did you give Timmy the 2 units Vetsulin?

    .
     
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  13. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK, great! This would be 2.5 hours after his 2U shot this morning, correct? Around here (because we are in so many different time zones), we usually refer to times relative to the shot time, so this would be +2.5.

    [Mogs, I think shot was at 10am-- and thanks for checking in on this!]
     
  14. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Vetsulin was given this morning at 10:00. I am not testing for ketones yet, but I will go get the strips today. I will test every two hours until his next injection at 9:00.
     
  15. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Getting to be a real habit, lately!
     
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  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Can you do the next test in 1 hour (i.e. +3.5 hours after dose was given). Timmy has dropped a fair bit since the AM preshot test (AMPS) and he may have an early nadir. (He's still in very safe numbers at the moment! :) )

    Also can you please tell us which meter you're using to measure BG.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    For members helping - food transition is in progress!

    From previous thread:



    Mogs
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  18. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    I am using the Relion prime meter. I will test in an hour. Still trying to manage the learning curve. Looking up nadir now.
     
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  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I know the feeling! It's steep. ;)

    The nadir BG is the lowest BG level between doses.

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  20. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I watched Smoky closely as his nadir usually happened by five hours after his shot. It was important with vetsulin to monitor the first 7 hours in particular with Smoky. Timmie may go down more as its still early in the cycle. The 297 is still a safe number yet, you are doing a great job testing him and it will keep him safe.
     
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  21. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I'm not more helpful today but I have my own little crisis going on (Squallie's BG is at 46 just 3 hours into the cycle, ughh) but you are in good hands with Critter Mom, Lisa and Smoky, and Nan and Amber!

    Timmy looks a lot like my Squallie! :)
     
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  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Good grief! Another dose reduction! :eek:

    Sending prayers and vibes for a safe surf through the rest of the cycle, Lucy. :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
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  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    SITREP:

    Diet Transition in progress: Day 3 | Foods: 3/4 cup Glycobalance dry + c. 4 oz wet food per day.

    AMPS: 508 | Fed: ??? | Dose: 2.0IU Vetsulin (Local Time: 10:00) | Meter: Relion Prime

    AM+2.50 - 298

    .
     
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  24. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    At 3.5 hours from a.m. injection he is it 292.
     
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  25. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    He ate wet food right after morning test 3.5 hours ago.
    He snacked on dry food about 2.0 hours ago.

    Lisa and Smokey, thank you for the words of encouragement.
    Squalliesmom, sorry you're having a rough day with your baby.
     
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  26. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Mogs, and thanks for checking in on me in L&L Land the other day, I know what it takes for you to do that and I really appreciate it. :bighug:
     
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  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Holding steady, I see. You're doing a great job with the testing. :)

    To get some idea of how long this dose will keep Timmy down in this lower range and also when the dose starts to wear off I suggest testing at the following times (all relative to time dose was given):

    +4.5 hours
    +6.0 hours
    +8.0 hours
    +10.0 hours

    NB:

    For PMPS this evening, because you gave insulin an hour late at 10:00am local time I recommend that you don't give insulin any earlier than 9:30PM local time.
    Also be sure to wait about 20-30 minutes after feeding the preshot meal before giving Vetsulin. (FDMB User Guide)


    EDITED TO ADD:

    Be sure to post for input on dosing after the PMPS BG test and giving Timmy his PMPS feed. (I'm in the UK so several hours ahead of you but other US members should be around to help. :) )

    Also be sure to get a 'before bed' test after the evening dose; I'd suggest +2 to see if numbers are dropping quickly again and, if yes, test again at +3 to check the drop is levelled out. If numbers go lower than you expected be sure to post for help from other members if you're worried about anything.


    Mogs
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
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  28. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    SITREP:

    Diet Transition in progress: Day 3 | Foods: 3/4 cup Glycobalance dry + c. 4 oz wet food per day (Sheba perfect portions beef pate/no gravy)

    AMPS: 508 | Fed: ??? | Dose: 2.0IU Vetsulin (Local Time: 10:00) | Meter: Relion Prime

    AM+1.50 - **** | Snacked on dry food.
    AM+2.50 - 298
    AM+3.50 - 292

    .
     
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  29. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Okay. Getting ready for the 4.5 hour testing and then will test the rest of the day according to the schedule. I will keep posting the numbers as I go. Just because I am worried and apprehensive. Having you all on the other end of my computer is such a blessing!
     
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  30. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I can fully relate. :bighug:

    The vet treating Saoirse when she was first diagnosed was positively hostile toward home testing of any sort - even of urine testing for ketones!! :banghead: I ended up having to dose Saoirse 'blind' for the first number of weeks of her treatment and I was absolutely petrified; she became very, very lethargic on Caninsulin and I had no way of telling whether or not she might be having a hypo. We moved to our current practice shortly after that and they are supportive of home testing. The relief of being able to confirm Saoirse was safe was immeasurable.

    I was extremely grateful to the members here who helped us when Saoirse went unexpectedly low: I was so scared. It made such a difference not being alone with everything.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  31. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    So his number at 4.5 hours was 277, down 15 points. He is getting testy with the ear pricks, but it has to be done.

    My vet, while not hostile, did not seem too keen on the idea of home testing. I have been blind dosing since December 14th and feeling very uneasy about it. Thank goodness I got the courage to start testing on Sunday. The need to keep and know he is safe, and that I am doing everything I can for him in this situation is almost primal.

    Knowing that I am not alone is such a relief.
     
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  32. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    If you don't mind sharing, it would be nice to know your name, too. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I think 2 is good.
     
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  34. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    SITREP:

    Diet Transition in progress: Day 3 | Foods: 3/4 cup Glycobalance dry + c. 4 oz wet food per day (Sheba perfect portions beef pate/no gravy)

    AMPS: 508 | Fed: ??? | Dose: 2.0IU Vetsulin (Local Time: 10:00) | Meter: Relion Prime

    AM+1.50 - **** | Snacked on dry food.
    AM+2.50 - 298
    AM+3.50 - 292
    AM+4.50 - 277

    .
     
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  35. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    My name is Susan. I apologize. I got so caught up in Timmy that I didn't think to tell you my name. :)
     
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  36. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Nice to meet you. :). Where are you from? My name and location are obvious. Lol
     
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  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Susan! :bighug:
     
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  38. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hi again!

    Sorry for ducking out abruptly, I'm at work today so could only check in in spurts. Things are looking good, though! I'm happy to see that the initial drop has slowed, it's so helpful to see what his pattern is throughout the day.

    On the ear pricks: yummy treats (or whatever he likes-- brushing, cuddles, play session with a fave toy) immediately afterwards do wonders for decreasing testiness. If the ear seems to be getting sore, make sure you are putting a little neosporin (gel, not cream) on afterwards (just dab a bit on and wipe off the excess after a bit). You guys are doing awesome for the first few days of testing, it will just keep getting easier from here!
     
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  39. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    Ran out quickly to get more testing strips. At +6.75 hours (4:45 my time) tested and it jumped to 404!

    That's over 100 points! Did the Vetsulin just stop working?

    I'm in Florida. I know it gets a bad rap, but we really are nice people down here. :)
     
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  40. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Thank you for the tip about the Neosporin ointment. I used that on this last test and hopefully it will give him relief.
     
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  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Pun intended?

    ;) :cat:

    .
     
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  42. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I lived in Miami for several years and the people down there were so nice.
     
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  43. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Others are more knowledgable than I about Vetsulin, but from what I know, the flipside to it dropping numbers very quickly in the beginning is that it can have a pretty short duration. It has two components to it, a structure which can partially counteract that, i.e. you get one component that is fast-acting and poops out fast, and another that is supposed to carry through in the later part of the cycle. It's still early days to figure out how those components are going to work in Timmy, though.

    When you were out, did you get ketone testing sticks too? Have you managed to get a test in?

    I've known many lovely people from Florida-- and the rest of us are very envious of your weather, especially this time of year!
     
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  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    With a lot of cats (though not all) Vetsulin tends to run out of steam about 2/3 of the way through the cycle. Because Timmy's BG dropped fairly steeply in the early part of the cycle it may have caused his system to react to raise BG levels as a consequence (bouncing) and that may sometimes cause numbers to rise earlier after nadir. If it is a bounce it will clear as Timmy's system settles down again. Another thing which might be affecting the latest test is the dry food Timmy has been snacking on. With only a little data available at the moment all we can do is speculate but as you start filling in a spreadsheet for Timmy it will help you to better identify how different things affect his blood glucose levels.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    SITREP:

    Diet Transition in progress: Day 3 | Foods: 3/4 cup Glycobalance dry + c. 4 oz wet food per day (Sheba perfect portions beef pate/no gravy)

    AMPS: 508 | Fed: ??? | Dose: 2.0IU Vetsulin (Local Time: 10:00) | Meter: Relion Prime

    AM+1.50 - **** | Snacked on dry food.
    AM+2.50 - 298
    AM+3.50 - 292
    AM+4.50 - 277
    AM+6.75 - 404

    .
     
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  46. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2016
    The vetsulin didn't stop working, that happened with smoky too. The dose never lasted him 12 hours, maybe 8 or 9 hours at the most. Timmie has only been on it for a short time now. It takes smoky about 4 to 6 weeks for good results to show up.
    Give it a little more time to work .:bighug:
     
  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Example of typical Vetsulin curve:


    [​IMG]

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  48. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Another tip: after the poke, apply gentle pressure to not only stop the immediate bleeding, but prevent bruising.
     
  49. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    How slow do I need to go to switch him to the wet food? I give him the wet food 3 times a day, but I leave out the dry just in case. How do I go about changing this?

    The curve is starting to make some sense now. From the graph it looks like that spike was to be expected.

    If the last test was 404, I am worried about the next blood test being off the charts.
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    It may just hang around the current level, Susan.

    Re the food change, it's best to do it gradually and also at a time when you can monitor BG closely like you've been doing today because you may have to adjust the dose downwards quite quickly in tandem with the change in carb load. The BG testing you're doing now will help guide you through the transition. There's good information about this at catinfo.org. Here's a link:

    http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes


    Mogs
    .
     
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  51. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    How long do you usually hold for? I usually just do a sec or two but he still gets bruises. I thought it was because I got to close to the vein.
     
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  52. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Longer than that, usually (depends how eager my cat is for her poky treat!). I shoot for at least 20 seconds, but don't always make it!

    If you're close to the vein, that definitely doesn't help matters-- on occasions when I accidentally hit the vein itself, I made sure to apply pressure for as long as possible to try to keep bruising down, but it does happen.
     
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  53. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hey @S. Russman , just checking in to see how things are going so we can start to think about the PM shot. Some things to think about:

    -- in general, we would like the pre-shot BG values to not be food-influenced, so most people take food up (if free-feeding) about two hours prior to shot time (don't worry if you haven't done that for tonight, not sure if we mentioned it in the blizzard of other info we were sending your way!)

    -- with Vetsulin, Timmy should have a good meal "on board" when he gets his shot, so he should eat 20-30mins beforehand.

    -- in general, if you are unsure of what to do dose-wise after getting a pre-shot number, post here before feeding the pre-shot meal. Sometimes (I don't think tonight!) if the number is low the advice will be to wait a bit then test again-- it's good if that second number doesn't have a food influence, either.
     
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  54. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    Thanks for checking in on me tonight.

    I just tested at 9:00. He did not eat for about 2 hours before the test. Final number for today is 408. He just finished eating his wet food as I was posting. Oops.

    How would you dose?

    Susan
     
  55. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    I took your advice on testing the ear and it went a lot smoother tonight and he was not so testy. Every little victory gives me more confidence. So thank you.
     
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  56. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    No problem on the mealtime! Like I said, that's really just something for when he throws you a number lower than you'd like to shoot (like he did yesterday) and you want to get a sense of where he's trending. He's pretty high tonight, so that's not an issue.

    I don't feel that I am experienced enough to give specific dose advice, so I'm hoping someone who is will pop on here soon. I think the default would be to hold at the 2U you shot this morning-- he's 100 pts lower pre-shot than he was then, but still pretty high and the 2U didn't bring him too low. Given that he did his drop in the first couple hours, though, you'd definitely want to check him early in the cycle.

    In the meantime, did you manage a ketone test yet? Especially when he's running at these high numbers, you'll want to keep an eye on that-- ketones are a serious medical situation, can develop very quickly, and are much easier (and much less expensive) to treat in the early stages.
     
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  57. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2016
    Hi Susan,
    If it were Smoky I would try 2 units again, maybe 2.5 if you can get in a before bed test. Can you monitor him tomorrow or do you have to work then? It can take a few days for a bounce to clear his system.
    I thought at first to give Smoky a higher dose whenever his BG was really high, 500's to over 600. He would nose dive on the vetsulin and then shoot up high again.
    Now I adjust his dose depending on both preshot numbers and nadir- his lowest point.
     
  58. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    I have not done a ketone test yet. He doesn't like anyone too near while he uses the litter box, but that is about to change. I am determined to get this done. If I can hometest, I can collect some urine.

    I didn't mean to put you on the spot with the dosing, I'm just trying to get a feel as to what others would do, because I have no clue. Although I am thinking maybe going a bit lower than 2 units tonight. Hypo terrifies me. I'll wait though to see.
     
  59. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    I'd do 2 u
     
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  60. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Stick with giving the two units tonight if you are comfortable with that. He is your kitty and it's better for him to be high for a minute than too low for a moment. A favorite saying I hear all the time on this site.
     
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  61. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Ah yes, the shy litterbox user! One trick that some people use is to crumple up some plastic wrap in a "favorite spot" of the litterbox, then go dip the ketone stick in one of the puddles (you really only need a tiny bit).

    How long can you monitor tonight? That might be a determinant of how aggressive (or not) you want to be on the dosing.

    I wish I could offer more specific help on dosing, but I just don't know enough about Vetsulin. :(
     
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  62. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I was initially thinking going lower than the 2 units, but that is my fear of hypo talking. He did okay today on the 2 units, although he started higher. I will give him the 2 units. I will be home tomorrow to monitor him. I also need to check his urine so I don't miss something. There is so much to learn and I'm starting to understand a little more with each post. Adjusting his dose depending on preshot and nadir is foggy, but I am getting it. I graphed the curve today and a flicker of understanding started. Yay.
     
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  63. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    OK, can you definitely get a +1 and +2 after the shot tonight? just to be able to get a sense of how fast the Vetsulin is taking him down.
     
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  64. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    The plastic wrap is a great idea. I am determined to get it. I will be monitoring him through the night anyway, but I'm scared to be too aggressive with the units tonight.
     
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  65. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Absolutely. That will put my mind at ease too.
     
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  66. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I think that's a good move. Another saying around here: "you are the one holding the syringe", meaning that in the end you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
     
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  67. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    You are learning faster than I am.:smuggrin: it took me a few months to get the hang of sliding scale dosing. I am still learning about adjusting dose according to pre shot and nadir readings. I switched smoky to prozinc because his body was absorbing the vetsulin too fast and not lasting more than 9 hours. Keep up the good work with Timmie. You are doing a great job.:D
     
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  68. Mum of two felines

    Mum of two felines Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Hi, I just got back on. I was wondering if tomorrow when you're home if you could get the spreadsheet downloaded and filled in. It will help us so much when we are trying to help :)
     
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  69. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    Thank you for the kind words. I have been feeling very overwhelmed and I appreciate it so much.
     
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  70. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    Definitely. I will do that as quick as I can tomorrow.
     
  71. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I think I'm going to have to check out soon (crashing)-- when you get the +1, could you post it? (even if you aren't worried or looking for advice on it, this is just for me :D)
     
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  72. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    OK, now I'm actually going to crash. I think Timmy should be fine and stick to good safe numbers tonight, but post if you get worried, there are people up at all hours around here. Good luck, and give Timmy a scritch from me! :cat:
     
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  73. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Sorry about not getting back. We lost power last night and just got it back about 30 minutes ago. All the electronics are acting wonky now. So bear with me. Last nights test at +2 was 387.
    Vetsulin 2 units was given at 10:00 last night and test at +2 was 327. Down from 408.

    Working on the spreadsheet right now.

    This morning tests are:

    **8:30 tested at 403
    Ate wet food
    Injected 2 units at 9:00.
    Snacked on a little dry food at 10:30

    **Tested at 12:00 at 326 + 3 hours
    Ate wet food at 1:00

    **Tested at 2:00 at 287 +5 hours

    By the next test I hope to have the spreadsheet uploaded, which will help a lot.
     
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  74. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Looks good so far. It's good to try not to give food for two hours before each test though. That way the BG numbers you get are not influenced by food. I'm so glad your power is back on. I had to test Smoky by candlelight and lantern before when our power was out. Let me tell you that was no small feat:joyful:
     
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  75. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I was able to get the spreadsheet up and running. This is going to be a great tool once I know how to read it. ;) His numbers only came down about 116 points today, but he started about 100 points lower than yesterday. The lowest was 287. Should I continue testing every two hours until the next dosing? Oh, how I wish I had started home testing right away. I would have such a clearer picture. He only nibbled a little on the dry food and that was this morning. He has had more wet food today. I am not sure if I need to be, but I'm concerned that the lowest he went on both days was 277 on 2 units.

    Thank you all for your guidance, reassurance, and support.

    Susan
     
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  76. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Shoot I'm sure that was in the posts, I must have overlooked it. I'm leaving the dry food out for him just in case. If he comes looking for food don't I need to feed him. Confused because vet said to leave out the dry so he would come looking for food to help balance the insulin.

    Yeah, turns out a tree limb fell on a transformer down the road. The kids had fun, but testing by flashlight was not.
     
  77. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Can you leave out some wet food for him or do you have other kitties who will steal it.:) I believe you said you are transitioning him from dry to wet food.
    Actually, 277 is not that bad of a number, it's in the yellow range on spreadsheet. Look at Smokys SS and you'll see what I mean. BG numbers in the blue and yellow ranges are good ones to have. I worry when Smoky drops down into the green numbers, especially below 50 on my relion meter.
     
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  78. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    You could test every two hours in the first half of cycle with vetsulin. Sometimes I do a mini curve on Smoky. I test him at +3, +6, and +9 hours after his shot. Any data you can collect is good and will give you something to refer back to.
     
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  79. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I do have another kitty, a torti. I'm trying to switch her to wet food as well. I'll leave some wet food out and see if it will work.

    I looked at Smokys spreadsheet and I see what you mean. He hangs out in the lower yellow numbers. do you think, that over time, his starting numbers will come down on Vetsulin? I noticed on Smokeys spreadsheet from 2016 that his starting numbers were high until you switched to Prozinc. I know it hasn't been enough time on Vetsulin, but I am disappointed that it poops out and Timmy's numbers go back into the red.
     
  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Susan,

    Great job getting the spreadsheet going. :)

    Are you able to keep monitoring closely over the next few days? If yes, you could try progressing the transition to low carb only - especially as Timmy seems to be getting less interested in the dry by the sound of things.

    You could leave out some wet food for grazing (but make sure your tortie doesn't nick all of it! :) ). By testing regularly you'll be able to see how the food change is affecting BG levels and reduce dose if necessary.

    Once the food change is safely completed and Timmy has a few days to settle you could then work on refining insulin dose.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  81. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Mogs is absolutely right about the food changes. I had to adjust smokys insulin dose after he went to all wet food. He needed a much smaller dose as the low carbs wet food lowered his BG's significantly. I would give the vetsulin at least two months to see if it works on Timmie or not. Remember, once Timmie is eating all canned food he may need less insulin and the combo of that and the vetsulin may lower his numbers.
    Smoky was on prozinc for about three weeks before I noticed any changes.
     
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  82. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I will leave some wet food out and see what the other cat does and adjust accordingly. I just really want to switch to the wet food completely as soon as it is safe to do it.

    Timmy's test tonight was 426 on 2 units of Vetsulin. He did not eat two hours prior to the test. Should I increase his dose slightly tonight?
     
  83. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    With the food transition going on it might be better to hold the dose. Allowing for meter reading variance Timmy's BG tonight is pretty much the same as last night's PMPS.

    Are you testing for urine ketones? Does Timmy have any history of testing positive for ketones or DKA?


    Mogs
    .
     
  84. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I have the plastic wrap in the litter box and am trying to persuade him that he needs to go. Ketone test strip on the ready. If I put the dry out tonight would it be safe to dose him. He nibbled on it today, but I was pushing the wet.
     
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  85. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I agree with Mogs about holding the dose. I would do a before bed test, I check smoky about +2 or +3 hours after his shot.
    When he was on vetsulin he would usually drop about that time.
     
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  86. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    A lot of cats run a bit lower at night so leaving out the kibble for Timmy overnight's a good idea while you're transitioning.

    As Lisa advises above, always grab a 'before bed' test on each PM cycle.

    Now all you need is for Timmy to 'perform' ... ;)


    Mogs
    .
     
  87. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    You can check with your vet if they have beads you can use to collect a urine sample. I get them from my vet when I need to bring in a urine sample to check for crystals in his urine. The urine rolls off to the side and you can put the urine test strip in to check for ketones. A friend of mine buys a big bag of dried peas to use to test her cats urine for ketones. She just washes them and dries them and reuses them again.
     
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  88. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I am determined to test his urine. He is quite offended by the plastic wrap in the litter box. He is a talker and he is voicing his displeasure.

    I will start doing a before bed test. That will help with my peace of mind.
     
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  89. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    A before bed test saved my girl's life. (A vet told me to hold a dose when I thought it should be reduced. I was still an FD novice and although I thought he was wrong I lacked the confidence to go against his recommendation - a mistake I never made again.)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  90. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Hi Susan,
    My cat is a big talker too. He gets very loud and demanding when he wants something. He has even growled at me a few times when I am checking his BG. He wants to eat and doesn't like to wait for his test first.:smuggrin:
     
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  91. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Film at eleven ...

    ;)


    Mogs
    .
     
  92. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    I was able to test his urine. I just held a small bowl under him as he went. Yay.

    It showed trace. Now I'm freaking out. What does this mean?
     
  93. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Do you still have the rest of the urine sample?

    If yes, run a second test and be very careful about the timing of when you read off the result against the colour chart. (There's usually very little difference colour-wise between negative and trace and the test panel tends to darken with time.)

    BRB ...


    Mogs
    .
     
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  94. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Check my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some additional methods of evaluating your cat.
     
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  95. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    I set a timer when I check smoky for ketones. That way I can concentrate on the color chart against test strip.
     
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  96. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

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    Jan 1, 2017
    I retested it 4 times. I timed it in the urine for 15 seconds and read it right away. At first it looked like it was negative and then I kept looking and it was more toward trace. Then it was trace.
     
  97. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Just making sure I understand properly:

    At the 15 second mark the test strips read negative but after the 15 seconds the strips got darker. Is this correct?

    .
     
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  98. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Also, did you keep the test strip immersed in the urine for 15 seconds before removing it and reading it against the test chart?

    What brand of ketone strips are you using?

    .
     
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  99. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2016
    Were you able to test Timmie's urine a second time Susan?
     
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  100. Susan and Timmy

    Susan and Timmy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    That is correct. I am using CVS Trueplus Ketone Test Strips.
     
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