hope I can get a few gaps filled in my scanty knowledge

OK, new here.... like discussion forums for the sharing of information with regards diseases. confused_cat Our 11 yo male maine coon was diagnosed with diabetes earlier this week. Our vet can't monitor him coz he went completely feral at the vet clinic when he had his teeth cleaned 4 months ago. He's guessing that Little Boy needs 3 units of Lantus (glargine) twice daily. We read that 2 units was the most a cat should be started on and I told the Vet I wasn't happy starting him on 3 but he was adamant that he should be on 3 units twice daily. He's only had two days on insulin and he's fairly lethargic on it. He is feeding a lot though (I think too much - but I don't know what it means). I'm giving him fresh meat, chicken, kidney, liver and some tinned tuna (no commercial tinned cat food or biscuits). I'm a bit concerned as I can't see it written anywhere that 3 units is ok for a starting amount. Little Boy was just under 9 kilos when healthy but is just over 8 kilo's currently. His glucose reading was 21.4. (he's only had one urine test and one blood test). He had all the symptoms of diabete's for the last few weeks. He was taking steriods for granuloma on his tongue.

We are to give LB the insulin as prescribed for 3 weeks and then take him back for a blood test. My vet seems competent and is trying to manage him via 'standard practise' and not blood monitoring. Any advice from others experienced in this?

Anyname

 

Hi there

first off, you'll want to be home testing, no matter what dose you're giving.
Please go thru these links from the FDMB Health Links: viewforum.php?f=14
Lots of info on nutrition and home testing.

You are feeding home made raw food? You'll want to read thru Dr Lisa's link on Feline Nutrition, she talks a lot about making raw food and requirements:
http://catinfo.org/

There is this link from our Lantus forum, with handy info on the protocol followed there that has worked for many kitties: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

This link will offer you more basic info on Lantus and setting up a spreadsheet to track your BG numbers once you start home testing:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=157

Do you have a first name? Where are you located? Canada or Europe? You'll want to convert your numbers to U.S readings, so using this method, 21.4 x 18 = 385, this makes it easier for others to see the BG readings you are getting.
Unfortunately, kitties cannot be regulated at the vets - if your vet is not encouraging you to home test, well - you have every right to do so yourself, and for the safety of your kitty.

Others will be along to help you out, start reading as much as you can, and ask questions, lots of good people here to help out!

 

Ronnie has started you off with some fantastic links- definitely read up The raw food diet is great for some, just read the link she gave you so you can make sure your kittie's getting the proper balanced diet.

Home testing is CRITICAL! Giving too much insulin can kill your baby. It sounds harsh, but it really can. Testing is our way of seeing how BG's (blood glucose) are doing so we can make informed decisions on dosing.

Last- it's been found that steroids can induce diabetes in kitties. How long was your cat on steroids? What kind? Is he still on them?

Welcome to the board.... we can help a lot here... just keep asking questions!

 

I agree that you've started on too high a dose of insulin and you need to back off. But I have a very important question first: what were you feeding Little Boy before he got the diabetes? Were you feeding him the chicken/beef/kidney/liver/etc, or is that new since the diabetes diagnosis? I'm asking because those are all natural meat and should be low-carbohydrate.

If you were feeding Little Boy natural meats prior to his diagnosis and he had elevated blood sugar levels, that's one thing. But if you switched to the natural meats after his diagnosis, then he's *certainly* getting too much insulin. The best thing you can do to help gain control of Little Boy's diabetes is learn how to home-test blood sugar levels; that'll let you yourself make informed decisions about how much insulin Little Boy should be getting.

If Little Boy is getting too much insulin, then he could have a hypoglycemic event. Those can be potentially life-threatening. If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, there's a little 'Jump To' list. Use that to go to the Health Links forum. You'll see a post there from Melissa and Popcorn, containing a list of signs and symptoms of hypoglycemia, as well as a second post from Jojo and Bunny on stocking a hypo toolkit. It's also important to note that cats can be hypoglycemic without showing symptoms. However, I would also note that two of the symptoms of hypoglycemia are ravenous hunger and lethargy.

Please, *please* run to your local store and get testing supplies this evening. When looking at glucometers, the main thing you'll want to keep in mind is the cost of the test strips; that's going to be your main on-going expense. If it helps, I got my first testing kit from WalMart (their ReliOn house brand). The glucometer was $10, a box of lancets was $4, and a box of 50 test strips was $22. Once you have supplies, the Health Links forum also has a post there on tips for home-testing BG levels, as well as links to videos.

I'm not trying to worry you, I'm just concerned about the amount of insulin Little Boy is getting in combination with his current diet.

 

I don't know where to start. OK the dangerous combination is to start at such a high dose of 3u Lantus and then don't test.

If you know any human diabetic, ask them if they just blindly give themselves insulin shots without FIRST TESTING. I doubt you will find a single person.
So why would it be OK for an animal? Home testing is so simple and you will find that your LB will come to you for testing.
That dose is much to high to be starting; you would do better to start with 1unit, and work your way up - if needed.
Please pick up a regular meter that humans use. Just go to your pharmacy and ask about meters for testing BG.
Please read this note:
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat HYPOS – They can kill! Print this out!

Here are some other links to get you up and started around here.
Once you are hometesting, it's very important to record your test results so that you know how LB is responding and so others can help you. You can click on the links in my signature to see how I record for my two cats.
Spreadsheet Template and Instructions

A profile is something you should put together or people will keep asking you the same questions over and over and over.
Profile Creation

This link takes you to tons of info that will help you.
New to the Group

Finally, here's a link to the protocol followed by Lantus/Levemir users. Look it over:
Tight Protocol

Normally, you would start at a dose more like 1unit of Lantus, then stay with that dose for a week. Starting at 3unit, you are asking for possible problems if new to insulin.

Any questions, just ask and someone will be able to help you.

 

Hi and welcome,

I know it's all overwhelming at first, but it will get easier.

I just wanted to mention:
Guessing by your numbers, you might be in Canada. We can't get the Walmart brand Relion glucometer in Canada... however, Costco has one called TrueTrack with test strips at a comparable price ($43 for 100 strips, the glucometer was free when I bought strips). I've had a few people say that they found it not quite as accurate, but I'm not having any problems with it so far.

Odiesmom

 

Woah, thank you so much for all the replies. Yes, overwhelmed but not panicked. I'm in Melbourne, and my name is Marilyn with husband David. I am going to read everything you've told me carefully. I really didn't think I would get so much feed back. What a superb site. I will do my best to get to the high level of management that is advised here. Re diet, I changed his diet to low carbs about 2 weeks ago and he was tested last Thursday. Previously he had high quality biccies and tinned Fancy Feast plus raw meat. He was always a guts and I was too soft to say no. Basically we are currently on sharp learning curve. I have glucodin ready in case he goes hypo. The Vet said they normally put them in hospital to stabilise them but can't do that with our boy as he behaved so badly the last time. He's is well behaved in the car and even for a visit but not for a stay over or anesthetic. :evil: I will be taking all the advice given. Thank you so much. A Web site similar to this kept my mother alive with aggressive breast cancer for 12 yrs so I know how useful shared information is. Many thanks!

Marilyn
ps Little Boy's photo will appear soon.

 

Hi Marilyn
Welcome to the land of FDMB.
You have already received amazing advice and all the best links.
Take a deep breath and read.

You are in the best place to be to help you and Little Boy. My Max is also around that weight and when he started insulin the vet suggested 2 u and I started only at 1u.
Hometesting is essential and you do not need a pecial animal meter. Humans ones are just fine.

My Max has been off insulin since April 3. Have a lok at our spreadsheet in our signature.
It is thanks to the board here.
Good Luck and ask as many questions as you need.

 

The glucodin will give Little Boy a sugar rush if he does go hypo. Do you have them in tablets? If there's a problem getting him to take them, you can try dissolving them in water. Or you can use Karo corn syrup, honey, pancake syrup -- anything along those lines. Note that any of these will get his BG up quickly, but it'll also wear off fairly quickly too.

You'll want supplement the glucodin/syrup/whatever with a high-carb regular food. That'll bring his blood sugar up much slower than the syrup, but it'll also keep the BG up longer, so you want to use the syrup and the high-carb food in sort of a team effort.

Some of the Fancy Feast flavors are low-carb, and some are medium or high-carb. If you stop by Janet and Binky's food charts here, that should give you some idea of how many carbs are in many of the commercially available cat foods.

 

Hi Marilyn and Little Boy - from over the ditch!

Can't give you a lot of practical help, I'm afraid, but good on you for the diet you are currently feeding him (though, as others have said, a nice low-carb. diet like that plus 3 units of Lantus twice a day is a bit of a recipe for trouble!)

If you have Whiskas tinned food over there (I mean the version made in Oz), the loaf-style ones are quite all right for a diabetic, being fairly low in carbs. That is, if you run out of raw and the other things you are feeding.
And many here feed the low carb. varieties of Fancy Feast (see if you can find the link to Janet & Binky's list of caned cat food). Not discouraging you from raw food AT ALL - that's great - but if you are like me there are times when you just haven't time to buy it or cut it up or whatever, so a tin or two of good processed cat food is handy to have on hand.
I wonder if your vet ever did a fructosamine test - it doesn't sound like it. This is really the accepted initial test for determining if a cat is truly diabetic, and not just having high glucose numbers due to stress at the vet (and he sounds like a cat whose BG numbers would go high at the vet!!). The steroids he was given are, sadly, often a trigger for diabetes in cats, but maybe (and I need to be corrected on this by others, if necessary) that COULD (?) also mean he is just a transient diabetic and may go into remission. If that could be likely, all the more reason to monitor him very carefully at home, if you can get on to the home-testing business.

It's all very overwhelming in the beginning, but you sound gutsy, and devoted to LB!

All the best!

 

Welcome Marilyn & David.

Over on the Lantus board, we follow a particular dosing protocol - the Tight Regulation Protocol for Lantus & Levemir. We are highly numbers driven so if you have not already learned to home test, this is an extremely valuable tool for managing your cat's diabetes. The protocol does give a formula for establishing the starting dose of Lantus: dose = 0.25 x kilograms ideal weight. So, if your cat's ideal weight was 9kg, then your starting dose should be 2.25u or less. Starting your kitty on 3.0u is too much.

Allie is correct. Some cats are steroid induced diabetics and once the steroid is removed, over time, the cat's pancreas begins working again. In addition, your switch in food may dramatically drop your cat's blood glucose (BG) numbers. This is another reason to both test and to not start at such a high dose of Lantus. There are many cats who reach remission because of a change in diet.

If you are feeding raw, please do look at the link that has been provided to Dr. Lisa's site (www.catinfo.org). A raw diet requires that you add supplements so that you are feeding a balanced diet (e.g., you have to add taurine, calcium)

 

Randy, did Max stay on 1 unit or did he have to take more over time? I argued the with my vet but he insisted there was no doubt that 3 units was the way to start. He also won't be seeing LB for 3 weeks. I'm wondering if I should get a second opinion? Or do I just dump one unit tonite? My vet is very bright and has experience with cats with diabetes - though he says he's never had a cat go into remission from insulin use. Why is he so convinced that 3 units was necessary to start off with? Was LB's level very high (385)? No fructosamine test done. The report said: dyhydration, stress, mildly ketoacidotic diabetes mellitus and probably fatty liver. I followed the link to the Lantus information cited in one of the responses and it said .25 of a unit for every kg of weight is an ok starting amount. That would suggest that he takes 2 units twice per day.

No I don't have glucose tablets just bought the powder. I don't want to give him carb food anymore but will look for bone meal to add to his diet and try to find out what else I might give him as a supplement. I was giving him Krill every other day but it was too strong so have stopped that for the moment (omega 3). I notice his leg bones creek when he walks. I am managing to keep plenty of fresh meat available to him - but he isnt' drinking since starting the insulin. He seems very subdued and somewhat forlorn since starting on the treatment.

I will have to do battle with my husband who tends to believe that we have to do what the Vet says. I'm not like this with doctors but feel really uncertain re this situation - the vet was so sure about the dosage. It's all so complicated. e.g. what do you do with the testing kit? Do I have to get blood out of the cat regularly? Then I have to study this site to work out what the results are telling me - that's if I can get a kit. Will go to the pharmacy today to see.

My cat was weird on the steroids. I knew there was something going on - i kept dropping down the dose even though the Vet kept telling me it wasn't too high. He was on prednisone for eosinophilic granuloma. A growth on his tongue and a couple of small lip ulcers (allergy prolly to diet - as no fleas). He was on them for 8+ weeks. He was so agitated that I tapered him off them He probably had diabetes then. He has been off the steriods for 3 weeks or more.

I am doing my best but I also have an 88 yo father who has been placed in a horrible nursing home and I'm arguing with my family about getting him in to a better place. At 57 I love my cat but I've had enough disappointments in life to know that I may not be able to do a lot better than I am doing for him. I must say that I am wondering how I might visit my father in another state plus take care of a sick cat - does my cat take priority over my father. I just went interstate for 7 days, staying in a motel on my own with my husband staying here to look after LB and that was before he was diangosed with diabetes. Ugh, life is complicated! :sad:

Marilyn

 

> Or do I just dump one unit tonite?

I'll have to leave the dosing advice to others, as I'm not a Lantus user, nor have I ever had to deal with ketones.


> My vet is very bright and has experience with cats with diabetes - though he says he's never had a cat go
> into remission from insulin use.

Remission can be accomplished by removing the source of the blood sugar spike, whether that's some health issue or bad dietary choices. If you just give insulin without addressing the underlying cause, then, no, you won't achieve remission. Think of it like your car's leaking oil. You can keep the car running a long time by adding oil (insulin), but that doesn't mean that something isn't wrong under the hood.


> Why is he so convinced that 3 units was necessary to start off with? Was LB's level very high (385)?

385 is a diabetic number, but not excessively high from what I've seen. I don't know how he came to the 3 unit decision; he may have been scared by the ketones. But your cat may have been stressed by the visit to the vet; if so, that would have increased his BG levels, and his 'normal' levels at home would be lower.


> No fructosamine test done. The report said: dyhydration, stress, mildly ketoacidotic diabetes mellitus and
> probably fatty liver.

The ketones could be a problem if they've either continued or come back. Please take the time to read about ketones here, and stop by a pharmacy to pick up some ketostix so you can test Little Boy's urine.


> No I don't have glucose tablets just bought the powder.

Okay. I thought there might be a powder, but only really knew about the pills and I was trying to envision getting a cat to swallow one


> I don't want to give him carb food anymore but will look for bone meal to add to his diet and try to find out what
> else I might give him as a supplement. I was giving him Krill every other day but it was too strong so have stopped
> that for the moment (omega 3). I notice his leg bones creek when he walks.

Dr Lisa has some recipes on making your own cat food on her website here. You might see whether the supplements she mentions are helpful.


> I am managing to keep plenty of fresh meat available to him - but he isnt' drinking since starting the insulin.
> He seems very subdued and somewhat forlorn since starting on the treatment.

I'm worried about both the amount of insulin he's getting and the history of ketones. If you could start testing both ketones and blood sugar levels, that would give us a *much* better idea of what's going on with Little Boy and how to best help him.


> I will have to do battle with my husband who tends to believe that we have to do what the Vet says. I'm not like
> this with doctors but feel really uncertain re this situation - the vet was so sure about the dosage. It's all so
> complicated.

It *is* complicated, and it's extremely hard to go against the vet, especially if you've had a really good relationship with him/her. It can make you feel stupid (why am I paying money to this person if I'm not going to listen to them) and it can make you feel like you're betraying them if you've had a personal connection. And we're never going to match the breadth and depth of your vet's knowledge -- they know more about more diseases in more animals than we ever will. But we have a luxury your vet doesn't: the only thing we care about here are diabetic cats. We can spend more time researching options, experimenting to see what works best, and we have more diabetic cats here on the boards than he'll probably treat in his entire career.


> e.g. what do you do with the testing kit? Do I have to get blood out of the cat regularly?

You should test your cat before giving him each shot; you'll also want to see how low he goes (the nadir), at least at first. You'll also want to do a blood sugar curve at some point -- that's getting the pre-shot value, then testing every couple hours until it's time for the next shot. Pre-shot checks let you know that it's safe to give insulin, the nadir checks tell you how low he goes, and curves give you a lot of data on exactly how well your cat is responding to the insulin. In general, if you think of BG numbers as a curve, you're interested in peaks and valleys and when they occur, and whether changes in the gradient are sharp or a smooth slope.

> Then I have to study this site to work out what the results are telling me - that's if I can get a kit. Will
> go to the pharmacy today to see.

I should think you'd be able to get a kit; they're certainly not restricted sales in the US, Canada or the UK. If your local store doesn't carry them, you might ask them to special order one for you. When choosing a glucometer, check the price of the test strips; those are going to be your main ongoing cost, so kits with cheaper test strips are better than ones with expensive strips. Also, a lot of human diabetics have insurance that pays for a set number of test strips, and you'll find that they'll sell their excess strips on eBay; you may be able to find them cheaper online than in your local pharmacy.


> My cat was weird on the steroids. I knew there was something going on - i kept dropping down the dose even
> though the Vet kept telling me it wasn't too high. He was on prednisone for eosinophilic granuloma. A growth
> on his tongue and a couple of small lip ulcers (allergy prolly to diet - as no fleas). He was on them for 8+ weeks.
> He was so agitated that I tapered him off them He probably had diabetes then. He has been off the steriods
> for 3 weeks or more.

It could be that he was borderline diabetic and the combination of the ulcers and the steroids drove him over the edge. If the granuloma has been resolved and he's off the steroids, that'll increase his chances of getting into remission.


> I am doing my best but I also have an 88 yo father who has been placed in a horrible nursing home and I'm
> arguing with my family about getting him in to a better place. At 57 I love my cat but I've had enough
> disappointments in life to know that I may not be able to do a lot better than I am doing for him. I must
> say that I am wondering how I might visit my father in another state plus take care of a sick cat - does my
> cat take priority over my father. I just went interstate for 7 days, staying in a motel on my own with my
> husband staying here to look after LB and that was before he was diangosed with diabetes. Ugh, life is
> complicated! :sad:

It is complicated, and I'm sorry for how things are with your father. Once Little Boy is stabilised on insulin, things will be much better, honest. And I know this whole thing is a huge shock and a tremendous stress on you, but it *does* get better.

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

Hi Marilyn

Welcome to the board. There is a lot of information here already, and I know a lot of it sounds very overwhelming at first, but in no time you will be very familiar with the process and little Boy will be better for it. I just want to add my voice to a few points mentioned:

Vets- Just because a vet has a few diabetic cats under his care does not mean he is experienced with them. Now knowing what I know, unless a vet tells me x amount of his clients have achieved remission,or that he knows the remission protocol, I know he really isn't fully on board with diabetic management. And to be fair, he couldn't possibily be an expert on every single disease, in all the species he treats. A vet is like a GP, he is not a specialist. My husband was also very skeptical at first, until the first night Max almost went hypo and the information here and hometesting is what saved him. My husband now tells me that he is coming with me to the vet once Max achieves remission (which will be in about 7 days time if everything goes to plan...anti - jinx) because he wants to be there to give his support when I try to convert our vet to treating his patients with this protocol. We owe a lot to this board.

Go to the Lantus section in Insulins on the board and read all the stickies, they will start to make things clearer. If you feed raw, please read the nutrition pages that have been linked in this thread. You need to add supplements to a raw diet otherwise he is not getting a balanced meal. Please hometest. It really gets easier to do. You need a human blood glucose monitor, strips,lancets,a rice sock everything is explained in detail in the links.

3 units sounds high. Max weighs about 8kgs and he was started on 1 unit twice a day, the most he ever got was one and half units.

And on a last note, my one civvie(non diabetic cat) is also a Maine Coon who goes ballistic with the vet, no one can manage him but me and my husband, but with us he is a total angel. Good Luck

 

thanx again people. I agree with everything I've been told - but in defence of the vet it could have been the 'midly ketoacidotic' aspect of the results that made him rush at the amount of insulin. Try to understand that the condition 'information overload' is a real condition that can only be cured by a lot of reading and time to absorb. At the moment it looks like a tsunami of things that must be done yesterday or my cat will die.

I hope that LB survives our learning phase. I saw the testing kits at the pharmacy but husband wanted to know whether the cat blood result is the same as the reading for humans? We picked up a urine testing kit and will get the blood testing device after we get more understanding. We can't do anything with it tonite as we are too overwhelmed and have visitors for dinner.

I understand about supplements for a fresh meat diet. But first things first. I also think exercise is something that needs to be built in to this disease recovery plan. I don't think cats were meant to sit around idle. Every living creature needs to get moving. Not sure how long a Sloth live. Must have adapted to their environment.

Little Boy is very well behaved normally. We learned a while back never to get between him and another cat when his territory was under threat. But he was even worse after the teeth cleaning episode. The vet was speechless. In fact it's all been a bit down hill since then. The shock might have started the diabetes ball rolling.

So yeah - I know this place will be brilliant. Like I said before I knew so much about breast cancer after I lived on a Canadian discussion forum for a couple of years to help my mother. I realised that for all conditions you gotta take a large chunk or the responsibility to find a cure and to help yourself.

Will read, read and read some more. So far I've barely started on the other posts. So much to learn, so little time!

Marilyn

 

We all use human blood glucometers, yes it measures the same way and is just as effective. My own vet uses a human blood monitor. There are animal blood monitors but they cost an arm and a leg and are really not needed when a human one will do.

Get sorted with the blood testing supplies as soon as you are able. I think the only "rush" with this is because your dose is so high, so you just need to know what his readings are sooner rather than later if you continue to shoot the 3 units twice a day. Your reading was 21.4 (385 for our american members), that is hardly "mildy ketoacidotic". My cat's first measurement at the vet was 25 (450) and at his worse he was 29 (522), and my vet, as ignorant as he was thankfully did not let me go higher than 1.5 units twice a day. Max is about 1 KG lighter than LB

I'm not a dosing expert, but maybe you should post a mail on the Lantus form asking for dosing advice. If you start low and go slow you also won't feel so overwhelmed that something might go wrong straight away if you don't read everything right now..., it just gives you a bit of a breather to adjust into this slowly and safely for you and for LB.

Keep reading and enjoy your visitors for dinner.

 

Hi and Welcome,

Believe me, we have all stood in your shoes. Yes, the learning curve on this is crazy steep the first week or two. But once I started home testing things got alot easier alot faster, and I was also caring for my elderly mother at the time I started.

Blood is blood, sugar is sugar, the little plastic testing meter can't tell the difference between human blood, feline blood, canine blood or ferret blood. All it does is measure the amount of sugar in the blood. That knowledge will give you the the information you need to keep Little Boy safe.

Take a deep breath, you have found the best place in the world for information and support.

Hang in there,

Robin

 

How much of his diet is unsupplemented raw? If it is more than 20% then he is not getting a balanced diet, which will not be good for his overall health. So while I applaud your efforts, please be cautious

 

The one thing I don't like about LB at the moment is his pupils are full - otherwise he is ok and still eating very well. We tried to test his urine twice since I last posted. I grovelled around in his litter box with a test strip and then couldn't work out how long the exposure to the urine was. So no result. Same this morning. Followed him outside when I saw him heading for a place to wee. He was low in the dirt but got a sample eventually. Started counting to 30 and it seemed to be changing to brown rapidly but had to chase him as I didn't want him outside so early in the wet and dark. Did you all keep your kitties in side while they were getting used to the insulin?

I will buy the blood testing machine this morning - but on the subject of "I don't know what I am doing", I will need to re read what you've told me (reading blood tests and charting) so I can get some sense of what I need to look for in the blood test. I will be running to this board and prolly asking dumb a** questions constantly. Your support will be much appreciated. Husband acquiesced to buying a kit. We retired and only spend money on the things that make us happy (usually simple things). One one spoilt cat resides in our house. Actually he's on Youtube so when I find the url I will post it. It's a segment of me raking him with the garden rake (plastic) as he loved it!
I also want to do the profile but it's gotta wait till I get LB sorted.

As for the diet - ended up having this discussion with our vet. I told him about my first cat Snow Ball (beautiful long haired fluffy white cat) who lived to a ripe old age - about 20. Skin cancer got her in the end. I used to mostly give her liver. Vet said that was terrible but she didn't get any health problems apart from the sun damaged her ears and nose - we didn't know about skin protection then - not even for ourselves. :shock: The vet said that we have to look at the ethics of feeding pets on food that is expensive to produce for animal consumption. Little Boy has only been on the raw meat diet a couple of weeks so he's been getting lots of vits and mins from the endless tins of Fancy Feast he used to eat. I read some stuff about it being made in China and I suspect it & the T/D biscuits are the reason he's got diabetes. So I've moved over to free range chicken, kidney, beef and fish. When I've sorted out the BG I will get him on supplements - for sure! But my instincts told me that Fancy Feast isn't the best food for pets - any food stuff produced in China has to be suspicious.

Marilyn

 

Hi Marilyn --

> The one thing I don't like about LB at the moment is his pupils are full

Does he seem to have any problems seeing? If you flash a torch in his eyes, do the pupils contract? Did this develop over time, or is it sudden onset?


> We tried to test his urine twice since I last posted. I grovelled around in his litter box with a test strip and then
> couldn't work out how long the exposure to the urine was. So no result. Same this morning. Followed him outside
> when I saw him heading for a place to wee. He was low in the dirt but got a sample eventually. Started counting
> to 30 and it seemed to be changing to brown rapidly but had to chase him as I didn't want him outside so early in
> the wet and dark. Did you all keep your kitties in side while they were getting used to the insulin?

Gwyn was an indoor cat, so I didn't have this problem. You don't need to keep the stick in the urine during the entire time, just dip it in the urine and count out the seconds. The strips I've used in the past are supposed to be read at exactly 15 seconds, but it's entirely possible that you have a different brand.

If you test urine from inside the litterbox, you'll need to check whether the litter itself causes the strips to change colour. To do this, wet some litter with regular tap water, then put the stick in the litter. If the stick doesn't change colour, everything's fine. If the stick changes colour, you'll need to either get a different brand of litter, or use a different method to test the urine.

Things folks have done for urine samples: stalk their cat to the litterbox and stick the stick under their butt while they're peeing. Stalk their somewhat more-shy cat to the litterbox and stick a ladle under their butt while they're peeing. Taking all the litter out of the box and see if they'll pee that way. Replace the litter in the box with fish tank gravel. If their cat normally pees in one certain area, put a glass or ceramic bowl in that spot. Or wrap part of the box with Saran Wrap.


> I will buy the blood testing machine this morning - but on the subject of "I don't know what I am doing", I will
> need to re read what you've told me (reading blood tests and charting) so I can get some sense of what I need
> to look for in the blood test. I will be running to this board and prolly asking dumb a** questions constantly.
> Your support will be much appreciated.

Re-reading is a great idea; there's so so so *much* to learn in these early days that it's easy to overlook stuff. And don't worry -- we specialise in answering questions. Though not stupid ones, 'cause you know that the only stupid question is the one you *didn't* ask.


> Husband acquiesced to buying a kit. We retired and only spend money on the things that make us happy (usually
> simple things). One one spoilt cat resides in our house. Actually he's on Youtube so when I find the url I will post
> it. It's a segment of me raking him with the garden rake (plastic) as he loved it!

I look forward to seeing it when you get the chance.


> I also want to do the profile but it's gotta wait till I get LB sorted.

Important things first


> As for the diet - ended up having this discussion with our vet. [...] When I've sorted out the BG I will
> get him on supplements - for sure!

Making your own food is fine; there are a number of folks on the boards who do so. The only concern I would have is making sure Little Boy's getting a diet that's fully nutritional for cats. When you have a chance (which I recognise isn't going to be in this next week or so), check out Dr Lisa's site for recipes on home-making nutritionally complete cat foods.

Finally, I'm delighted that you and your husband have decided to home-test Little Boy; that really will give you the best basis for making informed decisions about his care

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

Thanx Jean & Gwyn, We tested LB's urine again and it's the lighter brown colour @ 30 seconds. I think this is what it should be yes? We called in to the vet surgery yesterday and talked to the other vet who did the teeth cleaning fiasco. She said it's good if the urine turns to light brown as the blue/green colour would mean he's not getting enough insulin. (we didn't even understand that) We got a great sample by following him around the back garden. He knew we were about to capture him so he decided it was better to pee in front of us rather than have to use the litter box inside (so humiliating for a cat with dignity).

Vet gave us a strip to test keytones (sp?). None detected in urine. Keytones showed up in blood test but not urine test done done in surgery.

OK, so my question is: Given that Lantus is a slow acting insulin and changing insulin too often is not recommended - what am I going to gain by doing the home BG test over a urine test. We still don't have the home test kit btw. I think we are mostly concerned that we won't know what to do with the information. Even if we can get the blood and test it, what is the immediate thing it will tell us? What reading am I wanting? Speaking in American numbers - do I want his BG level to be 150 or under that? If he's on 3 units and his reading is 150 does that mean that I need to give him more or less insulin or keep it at the same level? What is the daily level that I am aiming at and am I meant to change the dosage according to the BG reading every time. I think the letters KIS apply here.

It's just that I still don't have a mental picture of what I am meant to be doing. Pls understand that I'm one of these people who take longer than other people to pick things up. I learn way better by watching something done and when I learn something I am very good at doing it. I was a bit remedial at school because I was slow to learn probably because I have an anxious personality.

I think our reluctance to buy the kit is a lack of understanding of how it will work for us - or that it may be too complicated for us to handle. Obviously worried about trying to get the blood too. LB has a memory like an elephant. I stood on his paw for the first time in 11 yrs). He was having his dinner. For weeks he would stand back from his dinner when I walked past him. I don't want to do any more fiddling with him than is necessary because I don't want to queer my pitch for giving him the insulin.

BTW I read Dr Lisa's diet page thoroughly on the first day. I loved the idea of grinding up whole rabbit. This would be very healthy as wild rabbit would be full of omega 3 and the goodness in the ground up bone would be fantastic.

These are LB on youtube. video two shows what a lovely garden little boy owns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajNwitbBBsg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTP2xG7aqL0


Marilyn

 

Hi Marilyn,

I have only scanned all the posts, so apologies if I repeat what anyone else has said (4am here-having a touch of insomnia!)

I didn't read anywhere about taurine-this is essential for cats and with a raw food diet (unless it's mouse) you need to artificially add it.There are different types so need to get the right one. Info as everyone has said from Dr Lisa's site.
Bit of history-years back when commercial cat food started out on the market, a lot of kitties got ill. Reason? No taurine. It is an essential ingredient and is found in natural food source-mice!

You say LB is lethargic-could be that the 3u is dropping his bg too low. The test strips will not give you a minute by minute bg reading-different things. It just tells you that his body is excreting glucose through his urine (cos it's overwhelmed with the stuff). Lantus is a slow acting insulin and generally is working it's hardest at 6 hours after shot. This is when you see the lowest bg number (and hence how invaluable hometesting is)

Human glucometer is fine to use.

I suspect vet has dosed based on LB's actual weight. Old fashioned way of doing things (an ok guide if based on ideal weight) but find a lot of kitties need nothing like this amount. Yes at some point you may work up to a 3u dose, but if you do it is because you have the information that tells you his bg's are staying in high numbers.

It is important you test for keytones-even a trace needs to be taken seriously.

Lots of people here will help you with the hometesting-that sounds like the priority to me, then hopefully you will see why people are saying to cut his dose. Lantus also builds up in the system (like filling a petrol tank) and againover time this can drop bg's.

Keep asking questions-lots of people here to help.There are several newbies from Oz here too :mrgreen:

 

Testing with a glucometer will tell you:

- what his blood sugar is *immediately* before you give him insulin so that you can make sure it is safe to give insulin (perhaps his pancreas will wake up and start producing insulin, perhaps he did not eat enough the previous day, etc)

- what his blood sugar is at the "nadir" -- the point at which it is most in his system, usually somewhere between 4-7 hours after his shot. You don't want him to get dangerously low at this point either

When you're starting out and trying to find the right dose, you'll typically start with a small dose, test before each shot and get some tests done mid-cycle so that you can get a feeling for how the insulin is acting in his body. After a few days, once he has had a chance to adjust to this dose, if the numbers all look too high still, then you increase the dose of insulin a tiny bit more. Repeat testing pre-shot and mid-cycle for a few days. You continue doing this until you reach a point where the numbers are looking good pretty consistently.

Once he is at a stable dose, then you can test less frequently if you'd like, but people here normally still test before every shot. It's just safer (again in case something has happened to lower his blood glucose unusually low).

By this point, testing has become really kind of routine and quick to do (it takes me about 20 seconds in total now) and it's really not a big deal.

Odiesmom

 

OMG! look at him and that rake!!

first he's a gorgeous boy!

second, OMG! I can't believe he let's you do that. LOL!!

 

He's beautiful! :smile:
Do you actually get shedding fur off like that?!

 

> We tested LB's urine again and it's the lighter brown colour @ 30 seconds. I think this is what it should be yes?
> We called in to the vet surgery yesterday and talked to the other vet who did the teeth cleaning fiasco. She
> said it's good if the urine turns to light brown as the blue/green colour would mean he's not getting enough
> insulin. (we didn't even understand that)

Okay, from your comments on "switching to lighter brown" and "30 seconds", I think I may have mis-interpreted your previous post. I had thought you were testing the urine for ketones, but it actually sounds like you're testing urine for sugar levels. Is that correct?

Urine test strips come with an interpretation key that looks like a bunch of colored tiles next to each other. It's usually on the side of the bottle or box of strips. You can see an image of one here; is there something similar to that on your bottle or box?

I can't tell you whether your results are good or bad, as I've only used a couple of brands of sticks and am not certain whether / how they might differ from what's available where you are. Nor am I sure whether your strips use a different colour sequence. In the sample strip I linked to above, you'll notice that the sugar measurement starts out at a light green and grows progressively darker. For these particularly strips, the darker the colour, the more sugar is present in the urine.

Unfortunately, what the stick shows is only an average of the cat's numbers in the past few hours, when you're really more interested in knowing what the highest and lowest numbers have been. For example, if you get a reading that your cat's sugar was 250 for the past few hours, that might be okay if they stayed around 250 all the time. But, if they had a high reading of 550 and a low reading of 50, that could also average to 250 but would be very bad.

In order to tell what's going on with blood sugar levels, you really want to do blood sugar testing, which will tell you what the blood sugar levels are *right then*. You can test before giving insulin to see if it's safe to give insulin, and you can test halfway to the next shot to see how low Little Boy's blood sugar goes. Testing blood sugar levels gives you the tools to make informed decisions about how best to treat Little Boy's diabetes. To test blood sugar levels, you'll want a glucometer, test strips, and lancets; you should be able to find them in the diabetes section of your local pharmacy. And, yes, human glucometers are perfectly valid for use in your cat.


> Vet gave us a strip to test keytones (sp?). None detected in urine. Keytones showed up in blood test but not
> urine test done done in surgery.

There are several types of urine test strips. There's a diastix, which will test sugar levels (as discussed earlier, they're not nearly as accurate as you need). There's a ketostix, which will test for ketones. And there's a ketodiastix, which will test for both sugar and ketones.

Since Little Boy had a history of ketones, you'll want to keep an eye on his ketone level, at least until his diabetes is under control. The easiest way to do this is to use the urine test strips (ketostix) and see whether they change colour. Low levels of ketones may be treatable at home, but high levels of ketones may require hospitalisation.


> OK, so my question is: Given that Lantus is a slow acting insulin and changing insulin too often is not recommended -
> what am I going to gain by doing the home BG test over a urine test.

See above: the urine test isn't as immediate or accurate and will only ever give you averages. For you to gain control, you need precise data. You can get precise and immediate data with blood testing.


> We still don't have the home test kit btw. I think we are mostly concerned that we won't know what to do with
> the information.

You can take the information you get from the test and post it here to ask for advice. Our ability to advise is limited by the data we receive; the better data you supply us, the better we can respond. As an example, let's go back to my example of a 250 sugar reading. We'd actually like the numbers to be lower, so if someone came in and said they had a 250 reading, we might advise them to increase the insulin. However, if someone came in and said that their pre-shot tests were 550 and their mid-way test was 50, there's no *way* we'd advise increasing the insulin -- 50 is *extremely* close to hypoglycemic territory, which can be life-threatening.

Using an average instead of exact highs and lows isn't good because an average is just that: an average.


> Even if we can get the blood and test it, what is the immediate thing it will tell us? What reading am I wanting?
> Speaking in American numbers - do I want his BG level to be 150 or under that? If he's on 3 units and his reading
> is 150 does that mean that I need to give him more or less insulin or keep it at the same level? What is the daily
> level that I am aiming at and am I meant to change the dosage according to the BG reading every time. I
> think the letters KIS apply here.

In *general*, with Lantus, you generally don't want to change the amount of insulin you give at random. The exceptions to this would be if Little Boy had a hypoglycemic incident, or (possibly) if he currently had ketones. So, no, you wouldn't normally change the dose based on a single reading.

Insulin works on a curve. You can see a curve here. This curve reflects the blood sugar readings taken during the day. The point on the left is where the insulin is injected and is usually the high reading for the time frame. As the insulin takes effect, the blood sugar levels go down; then, as the insulin wears off, the blood sugar levels rise again.

You want to keep the numbers in a good range for Little Boy. Exactly what those numbers will depend on Little Boy, how he reacts to the insulin and any other health issues he may have.


> It's just that I still don't have a mental picture of what I am meant to be doing. Pls understand that I'm one
> of these people who take longer than other people to pick things up.

That's not a problem.

You'll want to test for ketones, because Little Boy has had ketones in the past and they can be a serious complication.

You'll want to test blood sugar levels prior to each shot, to see whether it's safe to give insulin. You can post your numbers here or in the Lantus forum and, based on your numbers, folks can tell you what they think you should do: stay at the same dose, raise it a little, lower it a little. (I'm not qualified to give dosing advice on Lantus, as I've never used it.)

I'd also suggest heading over to the Lantus forum: if you scroll to the bottom of this page, there's a listbox in the lower right corner labelled 'Jump To'. Use that list to go to the Lantus (glargine) forum. Near the top of the page are three posts that will give you a lot of information about Lantus and how it works. Those posts are labelled "New to the Group? Please read"; "Insulin Depot, AKA Storage Shed"; and "Info: Proper Handling and Storage". Those should hopefully give you the basics about Lantus and how it works in cats.


> I think our reluctance to buy the kit is a lack of understanding of how it will work for us - or that it may be
> too complicated for us to handle.

For most folks, it's a question of getting the blood test result and posting to the forum and asking for help. Folks will read your post and give you their best advice on what they think you should do. As time goes on, you'll become more knowledgable about determining what dose to give, but at the beginning we all ask for this help.


> Obviously worried about trying to get the blood too. LB has a memory like an elephant. I stood on his paw
> for the first time in 11 yrs). He was having his dinner. For weeks he would stand back from his dinner when
> I walked past him. I don't want to do any more fiddling with him than is necessary because I don't want to
> queer my pitch for giving him the insulin.

Talk softly to LIttle Boy all through the testing process, and give him cuddles before and during. After the test -- even if you weren't successful in getting a reading -- give him a treat. There are a *lot* of folks here who have been surprised that their cat doesn't end up resenting the testing, and even more surprised when they come up and point out that, hey, it's testing time, already!


> BTW I read Dr Lisa's diet page thoroughly on the first day. I loved the idea of grinding up whole rabbit.
> This would be very healthy as wild rabbit would be full of omega 3 and the goodness in the ground up bone
> would be fantastic.

If you're using wild rabbit, you might have to do some variation on her recipe, just in case of parasites or such. Also, Kate & Lucky bring up a good point: cats need taurine in order to see. Without taurine, their retinas degenerate and they could go blind. If the diet Little Boy is getting hasn't contained enough taurine, that could explain why his pupils are dilated.


> These are LB on youtube. video two shows what a lovely garden little boy owns.

I can honestly say that I've never seen a cat getting his back scratched with a rake :lol: That's hilarious. And, yes, it's a lovely yard.

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

OK, I am getting the idea now. I am seeing the way forward. I am also thinking that my vet has never had a cat go into remission coz he doesn't encourage/understand GB testing at home. I have read a number of the things that you have asked me to read - but I think my first days have been lost in the maze of information. Some things go in first off but other stuff needs to be repeated several times - cos the last person info really started to come home.

As for ketones. Isn't it what every cat with diabetes ends up with after having undiagnosed diabetes? It's been our slowness to pick it up that has caused the progression to ketones yes? I was calling and visiting the vet re the granuloma and side affects of the steriods - but somehow he didn't seem to hear diabetes in what I was telling him. There were no ketones in the original urine test I did with the vet, that proceeded the blood test. The blood test said mildly ketoacidotic diabetes.

Ketones is when the body has eaten the fat stores for energy and starts on the tissue isn't it? I think LB is feeling better. He looks better today. Not forlorn. He looks really healthy actually - fur has regained its life. But tomorrow we buy the blood testing - but as for testing for ketones, surely if the insulin is being regulated 3 times a day with a blood glucose test - won't the ketoacidotic problem go away?

Marilyn
many thanks btw. You guys are really great. I wonder if I will ever fill the shoes as a helper to newbies?

 

Hi Marilyn,

some kitties appear to be more prone to keytones than others.

Lucky was over 600+ on her first fructosamine test (500+ on the actual there and then blood test) and it took quite a while to regulate her as they were insistent we had to use caninsulin!! (not a good choice in my view).

Lucky never had keytones-others whose kitties have had lower bg's have. Not really clear on the reason why.

The fact that you know, gives you a piece of your particular jigsaw. Big thing to remember-although we follow same protocols in the main, ECID (Every cat is different) anbd thus there will be things you do slightly differently to others because that's what is best for your cat or that you know is ok to do with your cat.

Example for me-Lucky was extremely fractious. Vets had to use welding gloves to get near her. I have to travel for my job and couldn't always take her with me. I hated having to put her in the vets. If it meant missing one shot or staying in the vets from Friday lunch to Monday morning-I took the miss a shot. This was very occasional and Lucky maintained what is called her 'shed'. Other cats (yours possibly by the sound of the keytones) not a chance can you risk this, or if you do, kitty is back up to 400+ by next shot time. Whereas Lucky would stay in the blues (low to mid 100's).

I would definitely ensure you have urine strips for testing keytones.
Get your kit
post the number
If all ok with keytones, drop dose back and start again (but close monitoring of keytones)
Good luck

 

To clarify

Not all cats develop ketones; if your cat is showing ketones in his urine, he needs to have medical treatment because ketones can develop into diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) which is a life threatening condition.

Jen

 

[Little Boy had trace ketones at the vet, but is currently testing negative for ketones at home.]


> Isn't it what every cat with diabetes ends up with after having undiagnosed diabetes? It's been our slowness
> to pick it up that has caused the progression to ketones yes?

As the others have said, not all cats are prone to ketones. My friend Linda's cat had readings of over 700 and his diabetes had progressed to the point where he was *extremely* lethargic when we brought him in for diagnosis (Linda was moving and I stopped the entire move to take Bandit to the vet when I realised he wasn't flinching from the power drill I was using a mere four feet from his head). And Bandit had no ketones at all (I know this because I paid the vet bill). And other cats can develop ketones at numbers under 300. We don't know why some cats are prone to them and others aren't. But since Little Boy had ketones in his past, that's something you'll want to keep an eye on during any period that Little Boy's diabetes is unregulated or under-regulated.


> as for testing for ketones, surely if the insulin is being regulated 3 times a day with a blood glucose test -
> won't the ketoacidotic problem go away?

Once Little Boy's diabetes is under control, yes, he's unlikely to develop ketones. However, *until* his diabetes is under control, he may still develop them. Once his diabetes is under control, you can stop testing for ketones. But it takes time to bring diabetes under control and at any point during the process, he could develop ketones again. Minor levels of ketones may be treatable at home; high levels of ketones may require (expensive) hospitalisation at a 24-hour care facility. If you have ketostix and test for ketones at home, you increase your ability to catch and treat ketones at home, which will be better for Little Boy's health (and your pocketbook).


> I am also thinking that my vet has never had a cat go into remission coz he doesn't encourage/understand
> GB testing at home.

While folks here have been doing it for a long time, it's still a comparatively new thing in the veterinary world. Now that it's got some more exposure with articles and lectures, and there's at least one glucometer being marketed specifically for cats and dogs, hopefully this will become the norm ... eventually. (nb: the glucometer specifically for cats and dogs? Don't waste your money on it. Get the human glucometer instead.)

Blood testing allows for better control of the diabetes, and finer control over the amount of insulin you give. Home-testing and low-carb food gives you a better chance of getting Little Boy into remission than following the advice of most vet's (no home-testing and high-carb food). Not every cat makes it into remission; in some cats, the pancreas is just too damaged, and some are on medications or have health issues that preclude that ever happening. But, if it *does* happen, then Little Boy's diabetes will be controlled by diet alone. Remission is the best possible thing for LIttle Boy's health (and your pocketbook).


> OK, I am getting the idea now. I am seeing the way forward.

We know it's hard. There's a *tonne* of information to absorb, and it's easy to get confused or miss some linkage somewhere. Also, it's easy for us folks who post here to forget to mention something or explain something that you need to know, either because we simply forgot it or because something's so obvious that we've completely forgotten that it *isn't* obvious at all.


> many thanks btw. You guys are really great. I wonder if I will ever fill the shoes as a helper to newbies?

You will. It'll seem like I'm exaggerating here, but in a few weeks, this will all seem like old hat to you.

 

Little Boy started insulin on Monday evening. It's Saturday morning and since yesterday he is looking much more healthy. I am going to buy the testing kit but we are worried that he won't let us do it. He is a big cat and he doesn't 'do' knee sitting. We have watched the process on utube but our boy won't sit there purring while we fiddle with his ear. I tried fiddling with it last nite, looking for the vein but he was suspicious - and this without inflicting discomfort. He's not the sort of cat you can hold down either. David had his hands ripped to shreds trying to stop LB from fighting with another cat a couple of yrs ago - and he bit the carer at the cattery when she was grooming him - she had 4 days off work.
He's not a naughty cat - actually he's a great cat - but I've been over and over it with the Cattery (best in our state) - don't put him on a diet when I'm away. There is no point and it only adds to his distress at being in care. I know he bit her coz he was hungry. He had been in for a few weeks and lost a lot of weight and then out for 2 weeks and then back in again for one more week. And I think he was really p'd off that he was back on rations. He was saying "forget the grooming - I don't care what I look like! Just feed me!".

Anyway the point of this message is to say that LB is behaving much more like his old self. I am sure there is more improvement to be seen yet but he is piling back on the weight. And his fur looks good and he is less agitated and less legargic. It's lovely to see. He seems to eat every two hours from 7 am to 10pm. ??? plus I leave a bit of food out - now with water on it after reading that tip on here.

The hypo's could happen if the dose is too high when and if his pancreas recovers slowly? Is that when it could happen?

Also what exactly is ketones biologically speaking?

Marilyn

 

I know it seems like we harp on hometesting, but we see so many cats who are given too much insulin and hypo. It can happen with simply too much insulin to start, but it can also happen weeks after diagnosis, when the insulin and food start impacting the blood glucose levels and suddenly the cat needs less insulin than he did before. Even experienced posters will come on with a surprise bg numbers, long after they think things have settled down for their cat. If you don't have a bg level before giving a shot, you are literally shooting blind.

We used the burrito method. We put a towel down on the couch next to the arm. We plopped Oliver down on the towel and wrapped him up so only his head was showing. We could lightly push him against the arm so he couldn't get away.

With really difficult cats, people use the clothespin trick: http://www.felinecrf.org/giving_sub-qs_ ... _peg_trick

Many posters here had cats they thought they would never be able to hometest. But very few do not now hometest. It is just too dangerous. They figured out a way to make it work.

Don't underestimate the treats. If you give treats generously when you rub his ears, when you click the lancet, and when you finally do the poke, he will come to associate the process with treats. You don't have to do it all at once. Do one step at a time and give treats. It is very motivating to a cat.

 

Did anyone tell you that ya'll are relentless? OK, ok, ok - we will succeed with the home testing. At first I thought the peg trick must be related to kitten-hood memories of being carried to safety by mommy cat. Nature is amazing. Seems kitty evolved to be relaxed when mommy carried it to safety.

You really are a great lot. I cannot believe the support supplied - along with the knowledge.

To be honest, I thought I would have LB put down if he was diagnosed with diabetes. He's been a worry all these years we've had him. We live on a busy road which he started recrossing when he was on the steriods - so kept him inside early instead of letting him out. He was hit a few yrs ago and did a lot of damage to our bank account but little damage to himself. I saw him hit - have no idea how he escaped serious injury (just a bald patch on his head and a bit of a limp).

We bought a smaller house to down size to (2 yrs ago) but after we bought it we decided not to move while LB is alive. But we are totally over caring for a big house. But LB loves his territory. The first day he came he walked around the garden and I could just see what he was thinking. Yes, this will do me very nicely. Then he ran down the steps and into the pool. Woah, that was a surprise. He did a U turn and has never fallen in again. He's been treated like all pets should be treated - one of the family - but we are so limited in what we can do because of him. And now it's even worse coz of the diabetes. Our daughter just moved to England and wants us to visit her. She's a cancer doctor. All these years I've always thought about how it will affect the cat if we go on a trip - I hate putting him into a cattery. Trips are planned to consider the impact on LB. So you can see how I might have thought if he gets unwell it's time for him to go to God.

But I thought about it more and husband said that I will be so distraught that we have to try. So that is what we are doing. (he always sits next to husband when he's working on the laptop in the kitchen. Nice and close so he can have his head scratched regularly. How's that for sucking up to the power source?

Sorry to rabbit on... but life is complex and there are always other issues to be considered. I thought now that I'm older I might be able to disconnect from my emotions and make a brave decision - but he's just such a beautiful boy - and he's a big part of our life.

thanx for listening.

marilyn

 

I totally understand the overwhelming feeling it is to have a newly diagnosed cat. I can also understand the "Why bother?" mentality, with a painful, life-threatening disease. Diabetes however, is so easily treatable, and with little to no pain for your kitty. I am so glad you have been successful so far with the testing and learning. I'm SURE LB will be getting raked for years to come!

Congrats with the first testing... and don't be a stranger here!

 

I think perhaps 13.6 means I have to times it by 18 to get the reading. Given what a mess we made of his first blood test his BG may have shot up from stress. He ate a hearty meal afterwards - but is due to have the insulin in 15 mins. Do we keep going with close to 3 units? it's only one test so far. Hope someone is around to tell me what this means. Saturday lunch time in the US and Canada - ya'll should be out enjoying the sunshine!!!

We could have made a video of how not to do a BG test on your cat. It was pretty funny in hind sight.

Marilyn (on the right path finally)

 

I assume you've already made the decision of giving 3 units? As I mentioned in the other thread, that's quite a bit as a starting point...
The usual recommendation is to start low (like 1 unit) and increase from there after a few days if it doesn't look like it's enough. However, if you are dealing with ketones as well, then perhaps a higher starting point is warranted. Hopefully others will chime in with dosing advice. Try to get some mid-cycle data this weekend if possible, that will really help in figuring out the right dose.

By the way, I think you have your timezone math a little off... when you were posting it was 5am over here in Canada (and would have been even earlier in the night towards the west coast) - not lunch time :smile:

 

You should see how confused I get with daylight saving!

We will try to do a good job re monitoring LB from now on. We will try to do 3 tests a day to start with.

Marilyn

 

Hi Marylin

Well done with trying for your first blood test. I promise it does get easier over time, and LB will also settle over time. Always treat him, even if you botched up and didn't get a reading but you poked him. He will figure it out. Try to at least get a blood test before his morning shot of insulin and another one before his evening shot of insulin. Then the other important number is how low he goes after every shot. This is called the peak or the nadir. It can happen at any time from 3 hours after the shot to 8 hours after the shot. This is why the more you test the more you will now when this number happens and how low he goes on average. That is when you can really startto make dosing decisions. So do the before insulin BG's, and try to do a +4 and a +6 to begin with (that means one BG 4 hours after the shot and another 6 hours after the shot). Set up a spreadsheet and record all these numbers. Then when you are a little more confisent with doing the blood tests, so a curve, this means you test him every 2 hours. This gives you the full data you need to see what happens to LB blood over the whole day and the whole night. Good luck