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HOW IS HE DOING?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Merrie, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    So I have Mel on 1.25 of province now, how would you say his pre shot #s are? I am not scheduling
    another curve until November.
    Comments on the #'s welcome.
     
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Mel's pre-shots are not too bad but in order to determine how Mel is doing overall, you need to know how low the current dose of insulin is dropping his BG. Dosing cannot be determined based on pre-shots alone. While a full curve is not necessary and would provide a view of only one day, getting one or two mid cycle tests during the day whenever possible during the expected peak of the insulin's action (between +4 and +7 hours post shot) will give you a much better idea of how Mel is doing. You can randomly test at +4 one day and +5 the next for example to find the lowest point in the cycle. It's also important to grab at minimum a before test every night because our kitties have a habit of going lower at night than they do in the daytime.
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Great preshots. Try to get more mid cycle numbers
     
  4. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019

    Thanks, will do. Today he was very normal. I work so I will have to do most of this next weekend. I was running home everyday at lunch but that is not always possible.
     
  5. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Hi Janet, I like your video of BG testing, however, what shows on the screen when it is time to touch the blood drop?
    I have been doing it after the blood drop icon is showing and the the test strip have bounced
    across a couple of times. Is this good or do I need to wait longer?
    Thanks,
    Merrie and Mel
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    As soon as the blood drop shows you can test. Simply dip the little protruding straw where a dot is on one of the sides of the strip.
     
  7. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    That is what I have been doing, thanks.
     
  8. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Could someone comment on Mel’s low numbers today? Please see spread sheet. Started the day at 99. It was a no shoot morning, at 10:30 his BG was 231, at 6:30 pm he was only at 187. I gave him his normal dose of 1.25, after testing the strips and machine with the test solution. +2 131, +4 70. I brought him food on the sofa. He ate, will take one more reading before sleep. Do I need to worry? Should I take him to the ER? He is acting ok and is now cleaning himself after his 2nd dinner. He has never been this low sine diagnosis. 1-1/2 months.
     
  9. Jenna Josie

    Jenna Josie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Hi Merrie. Can you get another test 30 minutes after you feed him? I think that should be in just a few minutes...? How much did he eat?
    Edit: and was it the savory selects or the classic?
     
  10. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    I did just that he is up to 126! Are we ok?
     
  11. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    P.s. it is savory selects. He ate over 1/4 can. I hand fed him.
     
  12. Jenna Josie

    Jenna Josie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Yes, I think you are okay! Two reasons: first, that's a nice little bump he got there from the food; and second, from the mid-cycle data that's on your chart, he looks like he has a "typical" (whatever that means for a cat!) nadir at +6, and you are nearing that now. (Nearly +5 about now, I think?)

    That was a close call with the lime greens, though, so you might want to check in another hour (or 30 minutes . . . I'm sure it's getting near bedtime!) just to be sure he's staying up.

    Also, if it were me, and especially if I couldn't be home with him tomorrow, I would probably lower the dose down to 1 unit tomorrow morning, assuming, of course, that he is high enough to shoot. He likely will be -- many cats "bounce" after a number that, for them, is unusually low -- but especially since he's still so early in his diagnosis, it's important to keep a close eye on it.
     
  13. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Thank you so much for your help.
    It is 12:30 am. +6 and he is 130!
    Yes I work tomorrow so I will adjust accordingly. Much thanks for your help. It was scary.
     
    Jenna Josie likes this.
  14. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    He is only 170 this morning. Spoke to vet. No insulin this morning. I did put a bit of the appetite stimulant in his left ear, but so far not eating . He never is a really good morning eater.
     
  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I agree with Jenna (Hi @Jenna Josie :D) I'd reduce the dose to 1u so you hopefully can shoot morning and night consistently instead of having to skip shots. Besides, Mel dropped low enough last night that a reduction was earned anyway. Mel is doing very well. Keep grabbing mid cycle tests when you are able. :D
     
  16. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Thank you both. I will try 1U if he is high enough.
     
  17. Merrie

    Merrie Member

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    Aug 9, 2019
    i went home at lunch to check. 1:00. He is 265. So at 6:30 I will give him his regular dose age.
     
    JanetNJ likes this.
  18. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Chances are those higher numbers today are bouncing from the lower numbers yesterday. This is normal and doesn't mean dose needs to be increased again. Bounces can last a few cycles so just hold the course for now.
     
  19. Jenna Josie

    Jenna Josie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Wow! Did he get his BG down from the 260s to 115 PS?! :woot: I’m thinking maybe his little pancreas is kicking in some insulin of its own!

    Even though you didn’t give him a shot, it would be very instructive to get a +2/+3 anyway ... if his pancreas *is* doing some work, he should be able to keep in low’ish numbers as his own insulin breaks down the sugars from his dinner.

    (hi @MrWorfMen's Mom :D )
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  20. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    2nding that WOW! Mel is looking good. Let's see what that +2 or+3 looks like. :joyful:
     
  21. Merrie

    Merrie Member

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    Aug 9, 2019
    I was wondering about the pancreas healing myself! Hoping for only good news from here on.
     
  22. Jenna Josie

    Jenna Josie Member

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    Jun 30, 2018
    Hi @Merrie what’s little Mel up to tonight? :confused:
     
  23. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Thanks so much for asking.
    I came home from work to find a BG in the 400,s. I suspected something because he had peed a lot in the box, like before. Had not seen that in a long while. I took it 2x to be sure. Gave him a larger dose of prozinc. Took BG test around 4 hour mark and it said 33. I thought this was not correct. Chris from the FB group, suggested I take another right away to be sure. He was walking eating and drinking well. I took another, just so I could sleep and it is 123 at + 5. Now we sleep. Tomorrow I will give shot of 1U and try to keep that for a while. It is very hard to do all of this and work. Lol ,maybe I should retire. Oh but then I could not afford all this.
     
  24. Jenna Josie

    Jenna Josie Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Yes, if it were me, I would definitely hold the lower dose for a few cycles, unless/until his BGs indicate otherwise. Since it was just a few days ago that 1.25 sent him too low, I think 1u is good for now to see how he settles. Who knows why they throw those crazy numbers every once in a while, but it's maybe not too surprising given that he hadn't had insulin regularly over the last five days. Hopefully the 1u will keep him in those healing blue/green numbers for you!
     
  25. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Did a curve today and he did well. Thanks, You have really helped!
    His poor little ears need a big rest now,
     
  26. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Hello, We had a fur shot today. He turned as I was giving his shot and I guess it leaked out. I am so sad. He was 259 this morning. Will he be ok?
     
  27. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Mel will be fine. Do not give another shot. You don't know how much insulin might have got into Mel and how much leaked.

    Just curious......what do you mean by 1+ as dose amount. Are you giving dose just over 1u?

    I also notice you haven't been getting many if any mid cycle tests and it looks like Mel may still be bouncing from lower numbers and the overall pattern suggests to me it's possible, BG is dropping more than you are aware which could be dangerous. Whenever possible, try to get a mid cycle tests and make it a habit to test every night at least before bed because many if not most cats go lower at night than they do in the daytime.
     
  28. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    You are such a comfort and so knowledgeable. I value your input greatly. I see your baby eats ff turkey Giblet pate. Mel likes that one the best I think.
    Still difficult to get him on a diet of the stuff. When I mix it with the DM Savory Selects he eats around it. Sometimes I sprinkle a little of the flakes from the
    Freeze dried treats on it. This sometimes works, and sometimes not so much.


    Yes, just a smidge over 1 U. His U40 syringes do are graduated in 1 U increments. I totally realized I haven't been grabbing any intermediate numbers lately.
    I will start again. and sometime in Nov, I hope to set aside some time to do another curve. Those test strips are like gold. I think they are more expensive on an ounce per ounce basis than saffron. Thanks for the re-assurance he will be ok with the leaky dose.
    It was very upsetting but I know it happens. I left him only classic pate ff turkey and giblet out today.
     
  29. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Oh also he is not pooing on a regular basis again. I gave him a GNC Hairball treat this morning as well. I think that shoots his BG up a bit
    as well but it works. He is on Metronidazole does that increase the constipation? He never seems in pain or to be straining. Just doesn't go for like 3 or 4 days sometimes.
     
  30. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    HMMM! That Savory Select I believe is 10% carbs while the FF depending on variety is around 3% so if you can wean Mel off the Savory Select food, it might help bring BG down a bit more as 10% is at the top of what's recommended for a diabetic cat and most folks stick try to stick to under 6% carbs. Also check the hairball remedy for any added sugary ingredients. Not sure what to recommend as an alternative. Might help to post on Health for some suggestions of hairball remedies safe for diabetics.
     
  31. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Hello, Mrworfmen's mom, I was reading Bearcat86 exchanges and wondering what is wrong with "getting stuck". Are consistent acceptable numbers a good thing? I was home ill from work today, so I did what I would guess many here do, and did a curve on Mel. He did sink into the the scary side of green but ate and brought it up. Do you agree from the curve and his other numbers he is where he needs to be for his 1+unit? This is just a smidge over the top of the 1U mark. He has been on prozinc since 8/24/19 or so and his dose seems to be doing him fairly well, I think, should I only change doses when the numbers rise significantly or lower? I appreciate your help and input always.
     
  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    It looks like the 1.0+u dose is working well for Mel. I love seeing that nice green in the middle of his cycle. I'd continue with the that dose for now and do a curve again a week or so when you are able. That 76 is getting close to the "take action" number of 68 on the AT2 meter so you really don't want Mel dropping any lower. Hopefully those pre-shots will come down a bit more with time.

    I wouldn't worry about being "stuck" with Mel being in decent range. That is more of a concern when a kitty is sitting in high numbers and allowed to stay there too long so his body gets used to the high levels of glucose and starts resisting the insulin action. I don't see that as a problem with Mel.
     
  33. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Thank you
    Merrie and Mel
     
  34. Merrie

    Merrie Member

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    Aug 9, 2019
    Hello again. Mel was 205 this morning pre shot. This evening he still had a bit of the ff pate I left out for him to graze during the day.
    He was hungry but just wouldn't eat any more pate. I understand from reading Prozinc would like you to take AM and PM readings 2 hours after feeding.
    I therefore wait to feed until 7:00. If I get home at 5 I feed then. However, this evening Mel is 146 at 11-1/2 hours after am shot.
    I have just fed him. If he is over 200 at 7:30 should I give him a shot? He will get a bump because I gave him savory bits instead of the the ignored pate.
    What should I do?
    Merrie and Mel
     
  35. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Did you check BG again? How high are the carbs in the food you gave Mel tonight?
    If BG is well over 200 now then I think you are safe to shoot regular dose but do test again a couple of hours post shot to see if Mel is dropping quickly and leave food out for him to eat overnight. .
    Your other options are a token dose like 50% or just skip if BG is not rising.

    Next time you get a low BG around shot time, best to stall, don't feed and retest to see if BG is rising on its own without food influence. :)
     
  36. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Thank you. Due to my work schedule I decided to skip this evenings shot. I considered a token shot but decided against it. He hadn’t eaten in 2 hours and was pretty anxious to eat. The savory bits are clearly at the top of the carb chart, at about 10. However he is a gravy man and always has been.. I give him FF turkey and giblets dinner pate as I can. We have had some success with that but not a lot. That is what I left out for him today as I worked. He had eaten very little of it when I returned home.tomorrow is another day.Thanks for the advice.
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  37. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Just letting you know, Mel was 213 this morning and he got 1U.
    Merrie & Mel
     
  38. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    That's interesting. Can you some mid cycle tests over the weekend and test Mel before bed at night? That extra data will give you a better idea of how Mel is doing. I expected BG might be higher than usual this AM following the skipped shot so a little surprised it wasn't and that's got me seriously wondering just how low BG is going on that 1u dose.
     
  39. Merrie

    Merrie Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2019
    Will do good suggestion. Although this morning it was 278 with 1U given PM at +13. So, I think Mel ate less that day than others. This morning he ate little, I may give him a little of the appetite stimulant that he eats better today. Maybe getting ready to bounce again. I read their bodies needs for insulin are ever changing. Seems true with Mellie. I see you are with another form of insulin. Is it similar in formula to Prozinc?
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.

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