I brought Kitty home from vet

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Missy & Kitty, Jul 19, 2013.

  1. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Hey everyone,

    I picked up Kitty from the vet today. He was unable to get her regulated, and he was using Vetsulin. He said that it had been removed from the market for a while, but it had recently been reintroduced, so he was using that. I told him I would rather use Lantus or Levemir, so he called my pharmacy and ordered some insulin for me there. I believe it was Lantus. I have to pick that up in a little while.

    We tested Kitty's BG with my new meter and his, and there was a pretty big difference. My meter showed 30 while his showed 50 something. He pulled some blood from her arm so we could test again, and mine was 33 and his was 50 something again. I'm not sure why my meter is so much different than his, but it makes me really nervous.

    I was going to feed Kitty some canned food, but since her BG is already pretty darn low, I didn't think I should give her the canned food just yet. I think I read that low carb canned food can bring a cat's BG down quite a bit, so I don't want to make her go too low. What should I do? What is your routine? Do I feed her canned food first thing in the morning, test her, give her the shot, test again during the day..I just don't know. Any advice/tips would be greatly appreciated.

    Since I will be using a different insulin than the vet was regulating her with, he suggested I start out with 2 units every 12 hours. When he was using Vetsulin, he had her on between 3 and 5 units.

    I asked him if he had tested her urine for ketones, and he said he had not. I asked if she could have a thyroid problem or pancreatitis, and he said the cortisone shot he had given her weeks before aggravated the pancreas, so that was another problem. I didn't notice her drinking and peeing a ton until after she got that shot.
     
  2. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Good for getting the Lantus(or Levemir). I would start with not more than one unit of insulin twice daily and make sure that you test before each shot. The 30/50 is low. How long after shot was it?
    If you test before each shot (and in between shots sometimes, especially when just starting) you can change to canned now.
     
  3. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Hi Larry and Kitties!

    The vet didn't tell me when he last gave Kitty a shot, and it's not noted anywhere on the paperwork that he gave me either. According to the paperwork, the last time he gave her Vetsulin was last night at 7:15 PM. Her BG was 282, so he gave her 4 units of insulin.
     
  4. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what kind of meter he was using? What kind of meter is yours?

    Food won't make her go too low.
    If it is less than 5 hours since the shot, please feed her something as the insulin is still in effect and she could hypo.

    The initial dose of Lantus is based on her lean weight - the lower of her current weight or her ideal weight - in kilograms (pounds / 2.2), multiplied by 0.25. Round fractional results down to the neares 0.5 units, for safety.


    Yup, steroids will do that.
     
  5. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Hey BJM,

    I don't know what kind of meter he was using, but mine is a ReliOn Micro.

    I called the vet to find out when they last injected her, and they said it was 7:15 AM. It's now 1:41 PM. I guess I need to feed her! Dang this is nerve-racking! nailbite_smile
     
  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    With Lantus, we feed after the shot and often let them graze until 2 hours before the next shot.

    Several small meals minimize the spike in glucose from food; you might see this about 2 hours after eating.
     
  7. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I promise sweetheart, it WILL get easier! The 'sugar dance' isn't hard, it's just different! Two weeks from now you'll look back and scratch your head wondering why you were so confused....PROMISE!

    You're in WONDERFUL hands here, I just wanted to send a hug too...
     
  8. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Hi Squeaky and KT,

    Hugs are definitely appreciated. *sigh* Thank you!

    I fed Kitty some canned food just a moment ago. I've never seen her eat canned food, so I didn't want to give her too much and have her throw it up, and I wasn't even sure if she would like it. Well I can gladly say that she LOVES canned food. She ate it all up in about 2 minutes. I think I'll weigh her and then see if I need to be figuring up lower calories for her (she appears to be overweight, but she's not heavy when you pick her up).

    I'll weigh her really quick and see what this comes up with. Thanks, BJM!
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Change food gradually to avoid diarrhea or vomiting!!!!

    And you can slow down scarf 'n' barf behavior by spreading the food thinkly across a large plate.

    Good low carb canned foods include Fancy Feast Classics and Friskies Pates.

    Because canned food has more water in it, the volume needed to provide calories will be greater than dry food (visualize a dried apple vs a fresh apple). Some cats will lose weight when transitioned to a wet food diet.
     
  10. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok, she weighs 4.4 kilos.

    So 4.4 x .25= 1.1, or 1 unit. Is that correct?
     
  11. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Correct - 1 unit is where you can start if that is a) her ideal weight or if b) she is underweight, it is her current weight.

    Lantus is given every 12 hours.
    Always test before you give insulin. Starting out, do not give insulin if the glucose level is below 200 mg/dL. This will change after you have collected a week or so of data, with tests between shots.

    The dose adjustments are based on the lowest point between shots - the nadir - NOT the preshot tests.
     
  12. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I figure that since the vet gave her a shot at 7:15, I should also give her a shot around that time tonight, if it is above 200. I will check her BG again before I go to bed; if it is high, what do I do?

    If I understand you correctly, in the morning I will test her, if it is over 200, I give her 1 unit of insulin. I then feed her some canned food (spread out thin on plate-thanks for that tip). I test her BG again sometime during the afternoon, and then again before I go to give the next shot. Correct? I'm kind of a perfectionist..I like to have a plan at all times. :D
     
  13. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
    We test, feed, and shoot if over 200 mg/dL, all within about 15 minutes when on Lantus.
    Lantus hits its lowest point somewhere between +5 to +7 hours after the shot, so if you shoot at 7:15 am, you test any time between 12:15 pm and 2:15 pm, as much as you can.

    The pre-test is to make sure it is safe to give insulin, not to adjust the dose. Just record it in our handy, dandy Google Docs spreadsheet/chart (instructions here). Then, if you share it, we can review your data and make suggestions.
     
  14. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I replied in your previous post, didnt realize there was a new one http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=100222

    Anyway - lantus is a good insulin but I am not sure you want to start her on it quite yet.. especially that number you got today was normal/low (normal cats sit around 40-130) and her insulin would have worn off by then. As long as she isnt on insulin you dont need to worry about a hypo.

    I would do a transition to new wet food over the next few days first , and a few blood tests a day, to see how the food change goes (what type/brand are you feeding?) and then we can see if she needs insulin.

    But asap get some urine ketone test strips (Also see my post at the above link and make sure you have everything in your kit that you need.) and lets test her for ketones just in case.

    Wendy
     
  15. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Also let us know where she is - if she really was 33 today she might be "bouncing" tonite from that low number and you might see a high. Dont panic. Thats normal reaction cats have when their numbers drop..

    ie

     
  16. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Oh. My. Goodness. I picked up the Lantus pen (U-100) at Walmart, and it was $290. I also asked for syringes, and they gave me the needles for the pen. I thought the pen was cheaper, and you just get syringes to draw the insulin out of the pen like you would a vial. Should I go buy some syringes? Holy crap, I'm in sticker shock. :cry:
     
  17. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Each pen once "opened" will last you six months if you keep it in the fridge (not the door) . Longer for the pens in the pack that arent opened - thats the expiry on the pack. You dont need the needles for the pen so dont open them and return them.

    You are correct, you want the syringes to draw the insulin out like you said as they are more accurate and allow for smaller doses ie Relion 3/10cc 30 & 31 gauge short or BD Ultra fine 3/10cc short orTerumo Thinpro Insulin Syringe 31G 3/10cc.
     
  18. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I just checked her BG and it's 27. I checked it again on the other side and it's 28. She's not acting funny or anything. I don't know if this meter is off or not!
     
  19. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Test yourself with the meter. Human normal is under 130.

    The pens are cheaper, individually. Did you use the Lantus savings card to purchase the pens? Should have been $25 each pen plus taxes. Some people have gone back and gotten the lower cost retroactively.

    With these numbers, Kitty does not need any insulin.
     
  20. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    It's saying mine is 88 mg/dL.

    I was worried that her BG was too low, so I gave her some Friskies with Beef and Gravy canned food.
     
  21. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    So you know the meter is working. That 88 is human normal.

    You do not want to give Kitty any insulin tonight.

    I think you said, that the vet gave her insulin this morning at 7:15 AM. Was that the last time she had any insulin?

    If that was the last time she had any insulin, she should not hypo, even with the low numbers.

    It did not hurt to give her some HC (high carb) food. Like that Friskies with gravy.
     
  22. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    88 is normal for a human, How long since last shot?
    You were right in giving food. 27/28 is too low.
     
  23. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    Your reading sounds normal for a human @ 88 so I am assuming your cat's reading is correct. If this is without any insulin, is your cat eating? I would take another reading in a hour or so cause that is VERY low.
     
  24. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    The vet gave her a shot of Vetsulin at 7:15 this morning. He didn't say how many units he gave her, but he was usually giving between 3-5. She has not had a shot since. I fed her Friskies canned food close to 2:00 PM (central time), and I fed her about almost half of a small 5.5 oz. can of Friskies beef with gravy canned food just a minute ago. Should I feed her the whole can?
     
  25. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Kitty can not hypo without insulin on board. She is way to low for you to give her insulin tonight. She needs to have a BG (blood glucose) reading of over 200 before you give a shot.

    You do not need to give her any more of the high carb food right now.

    If she is still hungry, you can give her some low carb food like the Fancy Feast pates or Friskies pates.

    Do you have control solution for the Relion Micro meter you are using? (Not many people do, so don't worry about it if you don't.)

    Which style of food was that Friskies you fed her? Shreds? Meaty Bits? Prime Fillets?
     
  26. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    No, do not feed her the whole can. You do not want her to get too full, where she won't eat later, if you need her to.
    I would test again in 15 minutes and post the number. Do you have Karo or Syrup?
     
  27. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Dyana, Vetsulin was given at 7:15 AM. No insulin has been given since then.
     
  28. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Hi guys,

    This meter didn't come with any, but an older meter I found in the cabinet did have some. Unfortunately, it's out of date (exp. 2005). Bummer.

    I found an old bottle of corn syrup in pantry, but I think it's been in there for YEARS. I would bet that it's not any good any more. I have some waffle syrup and maple syrup in there though.
     
  29. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    You can make some. Mix equal parts sugar with water and bring to a boil stirring until sugar is dissolved. Let cool.

    Wendy
     
  30. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I think your Micro or strips might be testing too low.
     
  31. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, you won't need Karo tonight. Just buy some as soon as you can and keep it with your high carb food and hypo kit in a special place.

    With a 27 and 28, I would test again 15 minutes after you gave the gravy food. You want Kitty up in the 60s to 100s. Come on up, Kitty girl.
     
  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Corn syrup lasts for years. As long as it hasn't crystallized, it's fine. Maple syrup works too as does honey. Not sure on some of those artificial ingredients in the pancake syrup. You can use it in a pinch.

    Don't think we will need it tonight, but it's good to have on hand.

    Which style of food was that Friskies you fed her? Shreds? Meaty Bits? Prime Fillets?

    It would be interesting to get another test, if you can.

    Wendy, does she need to make any sugar syrup if she is not giving the insulin tonight?

    Dyana, why the concern with the low numbers if there has been NO INSULIN since 7:15 AM today, 11 hours ago. And that insulin was Vetsulin, not Lantus.
     
  33. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. When I take advantage of a drop of blood on myself when I accidently prick myself with a lancet or insulin needle, and test myself I am usually around 80. I would just figure that the meter is correct, for right now, and try to get Kitty's BGs up.

    I'm just concerned that the dose of Vetsulin was too high and some hypos can take a long time. I do not think a 27 or 28 is within a normal range for a cat, and I think she should try to get Kitty's numbers back up into normal range.
     
  34. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok, BG is now at 52.
     
  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Can you call the vet to find out what the dose was this morning?
     
  36. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Hi Deb,

    I wish I could call the vet, but he is closed for the weekend. :/ I'll get the paperwork he gave me when he was giving her Vetsulin yesterday and see what he was typically doing.
     
  37. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Vetsulin is not a depot insulin, so no worries about long duration. Typically, it is out by about 10 hours after the shot.

    With those low test numbers, no need for insulin.

    Tomorrow is another day ... and I'm thinking that if she is over 200 mg/dL in the morning, make the Lantus dose lower than originally calculate - 0.5 units, not 1.0 unit - because she may have gone really low on the Vetsulin and be more sensitive to more insulin for a while.
     
  38. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    In order to give that 0.5U dose that BJM suggests, you will need to get insulin syringes. The Lantus Solostar pens only allow you to give the dose in 1U increments.

    You could even hold off on the insulin for a few days to see how the lower carb food is working for Kitty.

    Would you please get another test to see how Kitty's BG numbers are, about 30 minutes after the time you got that 52. Guestimate this to be your 6:50 -6:55 PM.
     
  39. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok,

    On 7/15, at 8:00 AM her BG was 520, so he gave her 2 units PZI
    at 1:30 her BG was 330, so he gave her 2 more units

    On 7/16, at 8:00 AM her BG was 356, so he gave her 3 units
    at 7:00 PM her BG was 340, so he gave her 3 units

    On 7/17, it just says 7:00, no AM or PM and no reading, and he gave her 5 units
    there's no time, but there's a BG of 53. He said it was a good number, but because it dropped so drastically, he thought it was too much.

    On 7/18, at 7:15 AM her BG was 416, so he gave her 4 units
    at 4:30, it was 94, but he said it was too low too fast again, so he gave her 3 units
    at 7:15 her BG was 282, so he gave her 4 units.

    He just said that he gave her an injection at 7:15 this morning. He didn't say how many units.
     
  40. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    PZI is a different insulin than Vetsulin. You told us earlier that it was Vetsulin. Is the insulin used actually PZI? or the Vetsulin?
     
  41. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    The paperwork says PZI next to the first entry, but when I picked her up, he was trying to give me Vetsulin. He did say that he had been using that.
     
  42. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ok, since we are not positive which insulin Kitty has been getting at the vets, I think more tests are in order.

    How about that test 30 minutes after the last one, the 52. Should be due in a few minutes.


    (Sloppy record keeping at the vets BTW)
     
  43. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Right!?

    I'll see if she'll let me test again. She's been such a good girl for me. The last one, she shook her head when I stuck her and it made a big drop of blood come out. She may not let me do it again. We'll see.
     
  44. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Make sure you always give a treat!!
     
  45. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    At this point, forget everything your vet has told you about insulin and your cat's diabetes. Vetsulin or PZI are very different than Lantus. Their method of action is different and how you dose is different. With Lantus, you don't keep giving more throughout the cycle as a means of trying to crush the numbers. I am not comfortable with how your vet was dosing your cat. None of these insulins are short-acting and the result of how he was dosing your cat put her in dangerously low numbers. You did great with getting tests and getting the numbers up. I'd encourage you to keep feeding your cat a little bit of food and re-testing in 30 min.

    I don't agree with the observation that there's no insulin on board. There are overlapping doses of insulin and they've driven numbers down. I would not recommend giving your cat any insulin tonight. Instead, I'd make a trip to Walgreens and return the needle tips for the Lantus pens and ask for U100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings. They come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest).
     
  46. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there might have been overlapping doses of PZI or Vetsulin given yesterday, 7/18. There has only been a single dose of insulin given today, 7/19. At the Vet. PZI or Vetsulin.

    This cat has not received any Lantus yet.
     
  47. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    That was much harder to take this time. She kept rubbing her paw over the blood and wiping away the blood. *sigh*

    Her BG this time was 43. She smacked the meter with her paw while I was getting the blood, so I don't know if the blood got on the strip wrong or what. I don't know anything about that stuff, so that probably sounded ridiculous.

    I'll give her some more Friskies beef with gravy canned food. I gave her some Friskies pate around 2, and the Friskies beef with gravy (they were little hunks of "meat" in there) around 5:50 (central time). It's now 7:26 here.
     
  48. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Try to only give her the gravy part of the food. If you have the lid, you can put that back on top and squeeze out the gravy. Sort of like you would squeeze the water out of a can of tuna fish.

    1-2 teaspoons of gravy please with one drop of syrup added.
    And retest in 30 minutes.
     
  49. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Gotcha! Thank you so much for your help, everyone! You have no idea how much better I feel knowing you guys are here. I'll post results soon.
     
  50. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Leave the canned food out so the gravy is runny. It does kind of congeal in the fridge.

    Do you have another can of the gravy type food you can open?

    You can also set the can of cold food in a dish of very warm water. That gets the gravy to "melt."

    I'll be sticking around with you tonight, until we get those numbers back up more.
     
  51. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I put the can in some warm water, and I was able to get 2 tsp of gravy. She just finished it. I'll test in 30 minutes and let you know. Thank you, Deb and everyone else, for sticking with me. I really do appreciate it. This is so overwhelming, and to have you guys go out of your way to help me..I get all misty eyed thinking about it! Ha!
     
  52. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    It's all part of what we do here. Stick with people when the numbers are really low and advise them on what to feed and when to get another test.

    Can you tell me the exact name of the Friskies food you are feeding? Everything it says on the front of the can. I want to check the carb percent. Please.
     
  53. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok, it's Purina Friskies with beef in gravy..meaty bits. It's the 5.5 oz can. I remembered someone saying to get some canned food with gravy in case her BG got too low, so I picked that up today. I don't know how to read the numbers on the can yet, so I just assumed that was good since there was gravy in it.
     
  54. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the Friskies Beef in Gravy, Meaty Bits. That has 19% carbs according to our food chart. Nice HC (high carb) choice.

    You can't really read the numbers off the cans. But this vet, Dr. Lisa Pierson, contacted a lot of manufacturers and got the data and crunched a lot of numbers and put together this food chart we all refer too. Here is the link food chart so you can refer to it yourself. I have it added to my internet favorites.
     
  55. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    You asked me about testing on her pad. Yes, you can do that. I don't know which one is best.

    You can also test the ears a lot more than you think you can. Be sure to apply a little pressure to the poke spot after the test, maybe 20-30 seconds if she will let you. Do you have any antibiotic ointment with pain relief? Not he cream version.

    Do you have any human food pure protein? A little bit of chicken or turkey or beef or water only tuna? A little piece of fish or shrimp? Only needs to be about corn kernel size.

    If she likes brushing or chin scritches, those are treats too. Talk to her and tell her what a good girl she is being. Praise her. Let he know how much you love her. Sweet talk her.

    You're doing a good job here. Time for some deep breathing exercises. Deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold, release, deep breath in, hold release.
     
  56. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok, it took a while, but I was able to test from her ear again. Poor girl. Her BG is now 115. :)
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    No more food for now. Retest in 1 hour please.

    We want to make sure the gravy is not wearing off. We want to see a rising number without food.

    Do you have any of the antibiotic ointment with pain relief? Dab a tiny bit on the poke spot and wipe off the excess with a tissue.


    What were they feeding Kitty at the vet?
     
  58. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I do have some Neosporin with pain relief. I'll put a little of that on there and give her lots of kisses. `1we24 That was Kitty..she wanted to say thank you. That or she just likes stepping on the keyboard while I try to type.

    They were giving Kitty Purina DM at the vet, or at least that's what he said he was wanting to put her on. I assume he was giving it to her there.
     
  59. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Was the vet feeding canned or dry DM? The carb content is different. The canned is about 7% whereas the dry is much higher in carbs.
     
  60. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I have a feeling it was dry food. I told him I would be changing her over to a wet food diet, and he didn't say he was already giving her wet food. I'm getting the feeling I assume too much. Ha! I don't know why I don't think to ask the questions you guys are asking. I feel so stupid!
     
  61. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    I just tested her again, and it's now 81.
     
  62. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ok, looks like some of that gravy food has worn off. Nice numbers, but I'd like to test for a bit longer.

    How hungry is she? I think a teaspoon of food, chunks too, would be good for her to eat.

    And test in another hour.
     
  63. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I bet she's hungry; I'll give her the teaspoon of food. She'll be pretty excited to get the chunks this time.
     
  64. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Time for another test soon I think.
     
  65. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    She's getting pretty ticked when I start messing with her ears now; she also cried a little when I stuck her. :sad: She is at 104 now.
     
  66. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Bet she is really hungry too. When was her last big meal? (big being more than 1-2 teaspoons)

    I would do one more test in a hour and then feed her. No food before the next test. If she is still over 100, I think you can go to bed and get some sleep.

    Vetsulin and PZI rarely last this long. We are just being extra cautious here. Safety is our number one concern.
     
  67. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I gave her some Friskies Turkey and Giblets dinner around 2:00 PM. It wasn't a whole bunch though because I didn't want her to get sick. Should I give her some canned food with some of her old dry food (Meow Mix)? I don't want her to get sick if I just switch her cold turkey. I don't want her glucose to go up though, so I don't know.
     
  68. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Some cats do get digestive upsets with a sudden switch in foods. This is usually seen with symptoms like diarrhea and vomiting. Some cats are just fine with a sudden food change.

    I'm torn here. I love these low numbers but not sure yet what is going on to cause them. The low carb wet food usually takes more than a few hours to have this startling an effect on the BG numbers. A week is more like it for the food change to have an impact.

    You could go two ways on this. Here are your options.

    1. Stay with the wet food only. If she gets diarrhea or vomiting, we'll do a slower transition with the food change. Or we can have you add some plain pumpkin, 1 teaspoon, no spices to her wet food. That often firms up the poops.

    2. Feed a mix of wet and dry. We'll compensate for any higher numbers with insulin.

    At this point, I'm not even sure Kitty will need insulin in the morning. Please, get a reading in the morning and post here for help. If no one answers you, skip the shot please. "Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment."
     
  69. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Since she hasn't had any diarrhea or vomiting, I think I'll just stick with her canned food for tonight. If she has some later, I will add the pumpkin to her food.

    Yeah, I'm kind of shocked that I haven't had to give her any insulin yet. I knew the wet food would change her BG, but I didn't think it would be THAT fast. I'm not complaining though! I would love for her not to need any insulin.

    I will test her in about 10 minutes and give her some food. I'll post my results before I go to bed.

    That's great advice. I'll do that.

    You have been so great, Deb. I really appreciate your time and thoughtful advice. I can see that you love cats like I do.
     
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Yup, I love cats. But I only have half as many as you do! ;-)

    Ok, you choose sticking with the canned food and see how it goes. We can work with that.

    What were you thinking of using for your test and shot times? So I know when to look for you.

    My gang of 3 will have me up at the crack of dawn, and it's an hour earlier than you are. :shock:
     
  71. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I was thinking of testing around 8:30 AM.

    I'm about to test her and feed her..results soon. *EDIT* She is not letting me get near her ears any more right now. I stuck her, but she cried and jerked away. I wasn't able to get hardly any blood from that, and I hate to try for that spot again. Poor little girl!
     
  72. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Your 8:30 is my 9:30. I'll be up by then no problem.
     
  73. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Do you think that she will be OK if I don't test her before we go to bed? She is pulling away from me and crying when I touch her ears.
     
  74. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    If you can't get this last final blood test, be sure to leave out some of that HC (high carb) food for her to eat. Cats are smart and will often go seeking food when their BG numbers drop low.
     
  75. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I think if I were to leave that food out, she would eat it all right now. Ha!
     
  76. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Should I give her another couple of teaspoons of that HC food?
     
  77. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Maybe a couple of teaspoons of the HC food. Then try to test again? The other ear maybe?

    I'm a little nervous about calling it a night without another test to tell us if her BG number is still in a good range.

    We need to teach you about making catfoodcicles. Later though.
     
  78. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I stuck her, but she cried and jerked away again. I wasn't able to get enough blood out of it to test. I'm not going to be able to get another reading. Her poor ears have had it.
     
  79. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    We need to call it a night then. Sorry you were not able to get that last test. We'll pick it up tomorrow morning.

    Good night, and thanks for all those tests you got. Give Kitty a hug from me.
     
  80. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Should I give her anything to eat? Pate or HC?
     
  81. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    How about a mix of the two? I'd say 1/4 to 1/3 of a can at least.
     
  82. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Ok, I'll do that. Thank you for everything! Good night!
     
  83. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Just chiming in here to say that you are in the best of hands for the health and safety of Kitty....I rely more on these guys here than my vet honestly.

    You're doing amazingly too, Miss E !! :D

    It will get easier, you'll get more of an understanding, your heart rate will return to normal, and it will become second nature alot faster than you think :D
     
  84. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Since my Mom passed away a few years ago, I have been living with my Dad. Kitty has been staying in my Dad's room since she doesn't like any other cats. This morning at 5:00 AM, Kitty started crying, so my Dad fed her the rest of the HC food. I couldn't believe it when he told me. I'm still in shock.

    Her BG this morning is 298.
     
  85. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    How many hours ago was that food?
     
  86. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    How many hours since she's eaten?
    Is your shot time now?
     
  87. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    He said it was 5:00 AM. That was 3 hours and 45 minutes ago.

    The vet has been giving her shots at 7:15 in the morning. This will be the first time I'm given her a shot.
     
  88. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I'll be moving Kitty to another part of the house so that my Dad can't do that again.
     
  89. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    If I remember correctly:

    1. Your shot time is 8:30 CDT
    2. You do not have insulin syringes yet, only the pen needle tips for the Lantus Solostar pen
    3. This will be Kitty's very first dose of the Lantus insulin

    Or teach him to only give the LC(low carb) food, and no food 2 hours before shot time. With your shot time at 8:30, Kitty can have food until 6:30.

    So we are ok today. I'd prefer to see Kitty only get 0.5U this morning, but without insulin syringes, that is not possible.

    2 choices.

    1. skip the shot this morning
    2. give the 1U dose
     
  90. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I got some syringes last night!

    My Dad is not teachable. I'm not joking. It's best that he just stays away from her.
     
  91. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    OK! Hope you got the syringes with the 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. If not, just eyeball it the best you can.

    Let's go ahead and give Kitty 0.5U. Now, with the Lantus pens, you do not inject air into the pen, just withdraw, a little bit over, remove the syringe and holding the syringe pointed up, slowly twist the plunger to squeeze out drops to get that 0.5U dose. Think you can do that?

    Where are you going to inject her?

    This means your PM shot time will be at 9 instead of 8:30. Will that be ok with your schedule?

    You can move the shot times 15 minutes earlier each cycle, or 30 minutes once per 24 hours. So we could get you back on schedule tomorrow morning. Would that work ok?
     
  92. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I did get the syringes with 1/2 unit markings. :D

    I think I can do that. I'm glad you said that about the air..I was just about to ask that. I was watching a video on YouTube about how to prepare the syringe.

    I don't know where I was going to inject her. The neck or side somewhere I suppose. All I know is that I pinch up some skin, and make sure that there isn't any muscle with it. The YouTube video says you should pull the plunger back after you first insert it to check for blood. If blood is present, remove the needle and get a new one. Is that right?

    9:00 PM is fine for me.
     
  93. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    Do I feed her the Friskies pate after the shot? I know she's really hungry right now.

    And do I need to gently roll the insulin between my hands to mix the insulin? I'll put it in the refrigerator after I use it.
     
  94. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Most of us never pull the plunger back to check for blood. I always skipped that step.

    You can shoot in the flank, the belly, the scruff as shown in this picture. Click on the picture for a larger view.

    Needle goes in, parallel to the body. Make sure the needle tip is not poking out the other side. Run your hand lightly over the spot after to check for a "fur shot". Some people describe insulin as smelling like bandaids.

    We really need to get you set up with a spreadsheet (SS) . I'll give you directions for that later.

    I know you must have a very busy life. Let me know if you need some help with the SS setup.

    You can give her the shot as she is feeding if you think that will work for you.

    Lantus does not need to be mixed. No need to shake, rattle, roll or stir. ;-)
     

    Attached Files:

  95. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I accidentally got way too much in the syringe. Do I have to just waste it? I only need .5 units, right? Dang, that seems almost useless. Ha!
     
  96. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Don't worry about wasting a little bit of the insulin right now. Syringe needle up, tap the side of the syringe hard, to get any air bubbles to the top. Then slowly squeeze out the excess.

    We can't take the insulin back out once you inject it. Better to start low with the dose and work our way up. Remember, you are changing her to the low carb food too. She'll need less insulin than when she was at the vet.
     
  97. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Ok, she didn't even notice that I gave her the shot, but it was such a small dose, it didn't even feel like I pushed the needle much. She's thoroughly enjoying her pate.
     
  98. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    All right! Congratulations on giving your first shot of insulin.

    There are several things I'd like to cover with you. Have YOU had breakfast yet? Do you have some time this morning?
     
  99. Missy & Kitty

    Missy & Kitty Member

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    Jul 15, 2013
    I agree, KarensPoe. Everyone has been so helpful here. I couldn't have done this without them!
     
  100. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    We need a test at +2 today and we will decide what other tests to do from there.

    Please add the Lantus insulin to your signature.

    Catsicles. Freeze cat food for later use. Some of us mix water in first. Put cat food in non-stick muffin pan. Freeze solid. Pop out and store for later use. As they gradually defrost, your cat can have some food to nibble on for the day.

    Insulin storage and handling link here. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

    Having a backup meter might be a good idea. The Relion Confirm uses the same test strips as the Relion Micro you are using.
     

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