I finally tested Georgie's BG myself

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Georgie, Dec 26, 2015.

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  1. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I am using an AlphaTrak BG meter purchased through the Vet. I was able to finally get a reading on it and it said 76.. Then I realised I don't effin know what this means so I called the vet office. (The booklet with it does not say anything)

    Apparently it is a low reading. I was advised not to dose him tonight. She seemed dubious about this number. She said as recently as he was diagnosed it made no sense he would read that way. She questioned if I did it right, I am pretty sure I did. I mean, before when I tried I only got errors as I messed it up or didn't get the blood to it in time before it shuts off..
    I told them I ended his dry food a week ago and she was like: "Oh that doesn't really matter. His food doesn't really matter.." I have no idea why she would say that it doesn't matter! How does food not matter in a diabetic cat?

    Anyway.. Does anyone understand how to use this meter? I mean, I have no idea what the readings mean. I know that if the BG is too high or low the meter will tell me "HI" or "LOW" Respectively.. He had eaten before the testing. I'm thinking that the reason he is eating like a horse is maybe he didnt need this high 3 unit dose of Prozinc.. Maybe he was too low..I don't know. I am freaking out. I don't want to kill my cat!
     
  2. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    76 on the AlphaTrak is a normal number and anything under 68 is too low, so it's a good thing you didn't shoot!!

    Were you started at 3 units?

    and you're totally correct about the food...just like human diabetics have to eat low carb foods, so do our sugarcats so the first thing we do is put them on a low carb canned diet!!
     
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  3. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    First, BREATH!

    Second - definitely no shot tonight!

    Getting away from dry food will cause numbers to plummet - food DOES matter!

    Your 'normal' should be 68 - 120 on alphatrak.
     
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  4. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    And congratulations on joining the Vampire Club!!!
    vampire smiley.jpg
     
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  5. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    He started at 2 units for the first week. When I took him to the vet after that 1 week, his numbers were still too high when they curved him. She told me to up it to 3 units. Monday he will go in for one more curve. I *Try* to home test him but he isn't having any of it. This was the first time I got a reading all by myself.
    After the second Vet curve, I stopped his dry food due to reading all over the internet that I should. I *feel* like he should be low reading but she seemed to make me worry I did it wrong.. Like his number was supposed to be higher? I have been feeding him nothing but well researched wet food. Tiki Cat, Fancy Feast Classics, Kitten wet food (Because it had low carb and was available that time.) I also added water when it was FF Pates and used real plain unseasoned boiled chicken breast as filler in the FF when I wanted to stretch the cans longer. Now he is eating Tiki Cat pretty exclusively the last few days. I feel like he should have a lower number. I don't know. Her words made me wonder.
     
  6. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Thank you. I think I should try to test him again soon. Man this stuff is freaking me out.
     
  7. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like she just doesn't know that low carb food is one of the most important parts of treatment.....don't feel bad....most vets don't!! To give them a little credit, they don't really have the time to stay up to date on the latest treatments for every disease in every type of animal they see though. That's one of the best things about this message board...the only thing we are concerned with here is the treatment of feline diabetes and the diseases that tend to come with it, so the real life experience of the people here is so valuable!

    A lot of us don't even see our vets for the diabetes anymore (including me and China)...I listen to the people here that have been doing nothing but FD for years and when we do go to the vet for something else, I just tell her what dose she's on and the kind of numbers she's getting and that's the end of it. If she does make any "suggestions", I nod my head and smile....and continue doing what the people here recommend!

    Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

    It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

    You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

    It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

    Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
     
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  8. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    We also don't ever increase in whole units and usually start new cats at .5 to 1U doses unless they're very large, so that 2 unit dose may have been too much to begin with....without more testing and seeing how low it takes him, it's impossible to know (which is why we like our spreadsheets so much!) Increases here are done in .25 to .5unit increments so we don't go too fast and possibly bypass a "perfect" dose.

    Too much insulin can look like not enough! That's where learning to home test will answer a lot of questions and most important, will keep Georgie safe! A doctor would never have you give insulin to a child without knowing what the blood glucose was first....it's the same with our furkids! Also, just the stress of being at the vets office can raise the blood glucose up to 200 points..the vet see's those high numbers and thinks the cat needs more insulin and you take them home, shoot the increased dose and end up in a hypoglycemic crisis since the cat is back home where it's comfortable.

    There's a "protocol" that the people here have come up with to use with ProZinc...here's the Link to the ProZinc protocol

    Keep asking questions!! The people here will do their best to help you and Georgie learn all the steps to the sugardance!
     
  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Georgie's Person (Sorry! I don't know your own name. :oops:)

    Well done with the home testing and catching that 76!

    I see that you've already had great input about effect of diet change on numbers (and also that not all veterinary professionals understand how significant an improvement it can make to blood glucose levels), plus where to seek input on Prozinc.

    I'm a fellow Alphatrak 2 user. I can remember how flustered I got when I first started testing. With practice, it definitely gets much easier. I usually insert the test strip into the meter before testing to make sure the strip is good and that I have the right code number. Then I pull the strip part way out of the meter so that it switches off again. I get the poking device and a little strip of kitchen paper ready (the paper is used to support the 'underside' of Saoirse's ear when drawing the blood droplet). I slide the test strip back into the meter as I start warming Saoirse's ear. That gives enough time to collect the sample before the meter switches off again. In a relatively short time from now it should get much quicker to get a blood droplet from Georgie's ear so the time pressure to collect the droplet on the meter should become much less stressful. :)

    Sometimes you can get 'wonky' readings on a glucometer. It's trickier to spot them when you first start gathering data because you have no 'pattern' to act as a guide to when a BG reading looks 'out of whack'. While you're getting this early data it might be a good idea to take a second test strip out of the pot and leave it somewhere handy (e.g. on top of the pot lid after you close it). That way if you get a reading you're not sure of you'll be able to quickly pop another test strip into the meter and do a second test quickly and easily. (Note: it is likely that the readings won't be identical but if they are in the same range then it will give you greater confidence in their validity.

    You can also test the meter using the control glucose solution provided. Instructions are in the manual. If you do perform a control solution test, as soon as the test result displays press and hold the 'C' button until a little test strip icon appears at the top of the display. Doing this tells the meter to exclude the calibration test result from its running BG averages (7-, 14- and 30-day averages). (I nearly always forget to do this ... :rolleyes:)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  10. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

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    Dec 9, 2014
    Hi Georgie's Bean! Just a couple of suggestions, if you have trouble testing with the ear, try the paw pads. They have very little feeling and bleed quite easily. You really should put on your "brave face" and do your own curve at home. The stress from the trip and a day at the vet can raise those BG numbers considerably, which can make the dosage amount inaccurate. Typically, ProZinc dosage starts with 1 unit or less.
     
  11. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    He isn't having the testing once again. I tried treats, etc.. I tried his paw this time. He screamed but there was a very nice drop of blood appearing, I was excited but then he wasn't having any of it once I put the tester to it. He fought me to the point I am now bleeding..... Didn't get the test. :( He probably thinks I am evil. Once again almost... almost... then fail.
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Fret not; you will get there. :bighug: Of course he doesn't think you're evil! Barmy for having developed a preoccupation with pointy things, perhaps, but definitely not evil. ;)

    I was very nervous but very determined when I started testing Saoirse. My first attempts were cack-handed but eventually effective. I found that I wasn't warming the ear long enough at first. When I warmed it for longer I had more success.

    Does Georgie like to be groomed? If yes, then maybe you could make testing time a pamper fest. Groom, wait till he's more relaxed and then do a shneaky wee blood test?

    BTW, remember to give Georgie treats at every test attempt, including the ones where you don't quite manage to get the blood sample.


    Mogs
    .
     
  13. Shenandoah

    Shenandoah Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Hi Georgie's parent.

    I'm new to all this too. But I hope I can give you a little encouragement.
    I've been home testing for two weeks now. I read all over here, and it seems like so many cats are either indifferent to testing, or even enjoy it (because of the treats and attention).
    My cat is one who does not like it, as it sounds like yours is. She has yowled and yelped, bitten and scratched. At first I felt like I was doing something wrong, because no one else seemed to have those problems.

    But I can definitely say that it's slowly getting better overall. She still yips most of the time (not yowl, not yelp, but just a bit of a yip), but she also now tolerates it (yesterday she took a swipe at me, but she mostly stopped those after about a week).

    One major thing that I think has helped us is to have a consistent testing routine. I get the materials together in the same order, set them in the same spot, go and get her and put her in the same spot, sit myself in the same spot, give her ear rubs to warm them up, and then poke in the same way. She doesn't like it, but I think knowing what to expect has helped her, instead of being scared about what I'm doing.

    The other major thing is to not get upset or lose patience. I know it's hard sometimes :banghead: But Georgie will sense how you are feeling, and respond to it. If you're upset, he'll get upset. I would just go through our routine, and if it wasn't successful, I'd just end it, walk away, and start from scratch a little while later. It still helped her to learn that routine - because she didn't know whether or not we were successful, she just knew how I responded to her.

    Another tip - I may not know much about diabetes, but I do have a lot of experience with animal training. If you really can't get through the process, then you might try taking it in steps. For example, you said you were able to poke him but not get the reading and it ended up in a big fight. You might be better off celebrating the poke, making him feel good about what he did, and leaving off with both of you happy. Go in with that your sole goal for a little while, and only when he stops reacting so dramatically to the poke, then try to add the reading onto it. The most important thing is to try to end on a good note. It's better to make progress and not get a reading, than to have a fight and not get a reading. If you end good, the next session should go better. If you end bad, the next session should go worse. So celebrate the small bits of progress, and don't push too hard if he isn't ready.

    I will say that despite our issues with testing, she still climbs in my lap all the time, still plays with me, still purrs away while I rub her ears (as long as we're not in "the" location). So it hasn't affected our relationship any. It's just one of those things that she's now learning we have to get through.

    Good luck. Testing is not easy at first, but it's absolutely worth it for your own peace of mind as well as Georgie's health.
     
  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  15. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I finally got the testing done. Apparently I should stick to the ears as he fights me less. I got his ear and got a reading pretty quickly. He was hard to get to sit still but maybe he was tired from fighting me all day. It was a bad reading 288! I gave him his shot.. which he does not mind.... And a treat.. I give him Vital Essentials Vital Cat Freeze dried raw meat treats. 2 ingredients.. Chicken liver, Chicken heart. He wasn't mad at me this time. :)
    I appreciate all the tips and this board greatly. I have been reading stuff all over the site.
     
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  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Successful test. Woot! :cat:
     
  17. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Congrats on the tests. Keep those treats coming and remember to warm the ear well. Often a rice sack (thinnish sock filled with raw rice and warmed in the microwave) or pill bottle filled with very warm water is needed. When was the 68? Was it at shot time? If so, it indicates the dose is too high.

    The 288 is not a bad reading, especially if it has come after a skipped shot. If he was 288 24 hours without insulin, you need to try to get a test in 5-7 hours after the shot to be sure he doesn't dip too low (68 and under is time to intervene)

    I am concerned he is getting too much insulin and bouncing from highs to lows. One thing that can happen is when his body perceives a level lower than it is used to, it releases extra glucose. This causes a bounce up in levels, higher than usual.

    Please note that the levels you got at the vet can be much higher than the levels you get at home, and doses based on those numbers can be too high. Cats can be stressed at the vet and stress can raises the levels, sometimes 100+ points higher than at home.

    For reference a regulated cat is in the mid 200s at preshot and for AlphaTrak users above the 70s at nadir. We suggest newbies not shoot under 200 until they have enough testing in to know how their cat might react.
     
  18. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Last night before his regular shot time (8pm) he tested at 76. I skipped the shot. This morning after 8am 288.
    I will definitely test his BG again in a half hour or so, if I can get him to agree to it. I am curious about his numbers bouncing. He has been off dry food and I have been EXTREMELY picky about what he puts in his body. I pretty much expect his numbers lower. I will admit though .. After the 288 reading, I did not give him the full 3 units. It was 2.5.... I thought if his numbers are in good shape after a half unit less I am on to something? Maybe I am crazy!
     
  19. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    He may be fine with the 2.5. I am just concerned as the low carb food can drop the levels and 2.5 is still a substantial dose. If he is above the 80s in that 5-7 hour after the shot range, you are fine. If he drops below 70, come on and get advice to help bring up his levels.
     
  20. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Last night 8pm- 76 Skipped shot
    This morning 8am -288 Gave the shot but 2.5 units rather than 3units
    This afternoon 1pm -80 ....
    Maybe I could go to 2 units.....
     
  21. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Could we get you to start using our spreadsheet program? We really do consider it every bit as valuable a tool as a low carb diet and good insulin! Here are Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet

    With him getting down to 80 at +5 (5 hours after the shot) and you not getting any more tests in, I'd make sure you get a test in tonight before shooting and if he's under 200, make sure you ask for advice before shooting.

    I don't know if @Sue and Oliver (GA) will be around tonight ...I know she knows ProZinc well as do @Robin&BB
     
  22. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I looked at the spreadsheet doc but sorry, I do not understand the sheet. I get how to add it and all that but not all the stuff on the sheet.
     
  23. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Hey there Georgie's Bean (sorry, I don't know your name)

    SPREAD SHEET EXPLANATION

    On the spreadsheet... It's really not hard!

    AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

    The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

    At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over.

    This explanation helped me to understand it. If this one doesn't work for you, tell me and I have another one. We will help you understand it so that you can use it to help us help you and Georgie. ;)
     
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  24. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK...the AMPS is the AM Pre-Shot....the test you get before shooting in the morning...PMPS is the PM Pre-shot

    You should always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin at all

    The U column is for Units...so if you shoot 1U, you'd just put 1....if you shot .5, you'd enter .5...etc....

    The + columns correspond to how many hours it's been since you shot....so +3 is 3 hours after the shot, +7 is 7 hours after, etc.....all the way up to +11....then it's time for a new cycle so everything starts over!
     
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  25. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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  26. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I think what I posted what something you sent me when I first arrived. ;)
     
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  27. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Hey, and I'm looking for a parrot for Bubba my pirate. ;)
     
  28. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    You have enough strips for the pmps test? I would definitely not shoot under 200 but would stall, without feeding and retest. You want to be sure he is rising, not still falling and over 200. If he is under 200 for the preshot and even if he rises, I would definitely shoot less insulin - maybe even 1.5 as you are going into nighttime and you wasn't be testing.

    Even if he is higher for the pmps, I would reduce to 2 units. If he is higher, it's probably a bounce from the low number mid cycle.

    BTW, spreadsheet looks great!
     
  29. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Done.. Thank you both.
     
  30. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    So it was 123 and I am supposed to shoot him now... Do I? Sorry I am still kinda dumb.
     
  31. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    No, don't shoot.
     
  32. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    123 is too low to shoot. We suggest new diabetics not get insulin under 200. You can stall without feeding for 20 minutes and retest, to see if he is rising and over 200. But I would guess he will not come up enough and you will need to skip.

    In the morning, he will likely be high but I would still reduce the dose. (Because you don't want a repeat of today's cycle with a preshot too low. Ideally you want two shootable preshots daily.)
     
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  33. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Thank you for that. This thing is new and kinda scary. All of this is such a hard learning curve. It makes me scared to be in charge of a life in this way.
     
  34. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Hi, Georgie's person (& sorry to be late to the party). I absolutely agree with Sue's advice on this, so hope you don' t plan on shooting any insulin into Georgie tonight. (And just think: You'll get a good night's sleep, too!;))

    A dose reduction tomorrow @ AMPS is most definitely in order. :)
     
  35. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Can you let us know what time your usual AMPS is - and which time zone you're in, please?
     
  36. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Hey...at least you made it!! I'm glad to see you and Sue watching out for Georgie's human!!

    Could we get your name? We know Georgie...we'd like to know what to call you too!!
     
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  37. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Ah, My name is Aria. In US Mountain time currently. His shot time is 8am/8pm Which was 45 mins ago now.
     
  38. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Cool, Aria - we're in the same time zone! I'm up & about by 6:30 a.m. (our usual AMPS), so will be around (@Sue and Oliver (GA) is on Mountain time, too) - will you be posting your AMPS for us in the morning before you dose?
     
  39. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I will attempt to for sure. I usually get up later than I should for work so often do not have much time. I will certainly try to be up earlier this time.
     
  40. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    With his changing, lowering numbers, it is really important that you test before each shot. Especially if you can't be home during the day.
     
  41. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I will definitely test before a shot. Especially after that first 76 reading and I almost didn't check before it!
     
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  42. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the world of Feline Diabetes and Sleep Deprivation, Aria!!! ;)

    I am a HORRIBLE morning person...I hate them...I even remember being in elementary school and still wide awake at 5am knowing I had to get up at 7 to go to (yuck) school!! When we first started this dance, I figured I could just make China's shot schedule at 11am/11pm since I'm a late night person but it didn't take long for me to realize that when you're alone, stressed out and your cat is running low at night, it's also really hard to sit up until 5am to make sure they're OK!

    So I bit the bullet and changed her shot times to 6am/6pm...Yes, I still HATE getting up at 6am, but when I need to leave in the mornings to take my mom to the doctor or something, I can always get a +2 before I have to leave (and that lets me know if I need to leave down some higher carb food to keep her safe or if I need to try to cancel and stay home) and I can always get a +6 at night when cats tend to go lower anyway....and then if I can sleep, I can sleep the rest of the night without worrying what China might be up to!

    I've also learned I can get up at 6, test/feed/shoot and usually sneak back to bed...usually without waking up a whole lot....LOL
     
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  43. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I am very much the same. I used to always work at night but now here in this place I have a day job, early day job at that. I hate it and find it really hard not to go to bed at 2am and super hard to wake up at 6 when I am supposed to. His shot times are at 8 am when I am supposed to leave for work and 8pm so I can still go out at night.. I'm just going to have to test his BG before the 8 o'clock shot time like I did tonight. There seems to be so much more to this stuff than I imagined. My vet did not make it seem so detailed. She was like 2 shots a day 12 hours apart. We will stable the dose eventually. Test once in awhile..... Try to do one all day curve.... blah blah but I had no idea ..
     
  44. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That's about the usual advice people get from their vets :(

    I can't imagine giving something as potent as insulin without testing....it's too easy to come home to a tragedy that way....you'll develop a routine though and it'll come easier as you learn more about how Georgie responds
     
  45. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    He raised up from 123 to 156 now (2 hours) .. Getting worried.
     
  46. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to worry about....He's probably going to "bounce"

    They "bounce" when the 1. drop too low 2. drop very quickly and 3. drop lower than their body has become used to (or any mix of all 3)....Georgie probably has been living in higher numbers for awhile before you got him diagnosed, so that drop into normal numbers today is something his body isn't used to anymore.

    His liver releases stored sugar and hormones to bring him back up to where he's "used to" being....he "bounced"!! It's totally normal (although frustrating) and you just have to ignore the bounce numbers. It can take up to 6 cycles to "clear" a bounce

    If he's still headed up at your next test, you can plan on going to bed and getting some sleep!!
     
  47. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    What is happening.. His BG was now 137 AMPS... after eating....
     
  48. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    What is happening is ... his #s are improving. These #s are great on the AlphaTrak meter.
    I'd say he does not need a dose this morning - esp. as this BG # you got is AFTER eating.
     
  49. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    By the way ... the AMPS/ PMPS sequence is: test blood glucose, then feed, then shoot - IF a shot is needed.;)
    Just for future reference, ok? Because you're doing really GREAT on the testing!:bighug:
     
  50. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I have him scheduled to go to the vet today for a curve too. They said I need to feed him and give him his shot first before bringing him. I agree I do not think he needs a shot but I don't know what to do about it now.

    Ok test, feed, shot... Sometimes it is hard for me to deny him his breakfast when he is screaming at me. :)
     
  51. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Aria, I need to just put this out there: If your cat tends to stress out at the vet's office, letting the vet do a curve can be REALLY counter-productive.
    There's a strong possibility of stress hyperglycemia at the vet's office. Fact is, YOU can do your own curve at home, on a weekend when needed.
    In-clinic curves, in my humble opinion, are nothing more than cash-cows for veterinary practices. (The only exception being when someone literally cannot test at home.)

    P.S. When my vet up in Colorado realized I was willing to test @ home, he actually told me that doing the curves at home is better!
     
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  52. Shenandoah

    Shenandoah Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Is that normal?
    My vet specifically did NOT want me to have fed or given the shot when I went for Shenandoah's curve. They wanted to see her pre-shot/pre-food numbers (which I'm glad they did, because they were low), and also wanted to watch me give the shot so they could verify I was doing things correctly.
     
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  53. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    @Shenandoah has an excellent point here! Frankly, it sounds to me as though this vet is not too well-versed on best practices in treatment of diabetes. If this were my kitty, I'd skip this curve today @ vet's office altogether ... and start looking for a new vet.

    Seriously.
     
  54. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Your first clue was when the vet told you that you didn't need to test BGs at home. Think about this: If he were a human child, would you shoot insulin without first getting your child's blood glucose #?* Of course not! So is really no different for a diabetic cat.

    *(Heck, if a physician advised you in this way for a diabetic child, that doc would be in danger of losing his/her license to practice medicine.)
     
  55. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Incidentally ... I am not at all surprised that Georgie's #s are going down: You are feeding all low-carb now. And it's quite common that a diet change alone can make a drastic improvement in the blood glucose numbers. Looks to me like Mr. G is responding VERY well to the diet you're feeding now.
    :)
     
  56. Shenandoah

    Shenandoah Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Hey, I'm in Colorado! My vet is female, though.
    My vet told me straight out that home testing was best, but since most people aren't willing to do it she could do periodic curves as the most feasible alternative. She also explained to me the problems associated with doing a curve at the vet's.
    My vet also gave me the link to this website on the day of our diagnosis :)

    She's not an expert in diabetes, but it sounds like she's one of the better ones out there, based on what I've read around here.
     
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  57. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    @Shenandoah - Yep, sounds to me like you definitely have one of the better ones! What blows me away is that there are still so many vets out there who don't encourage home-testing of BG#s.
     
  58. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I did skip the vet curve appointment. If his numbers are indeed good I am afraid of him reverting and going higher again. Maybe from the stress or maybe they will feed him that crap they sell.
    I do think about switching vets not only because I didn't like that they told me "What he eats doesn't really matter." But also because they did not tell me to test before each shot. It should be a no s*it thing and I should have figured that out but I didn't. I have no experience in caring for the chronically ill of any species.
    My vet is in Denver but its a trek for me too.
    If anyone knows of a better one?
    I also don't know why they want to start the curve after food and shot but they keep him until late.
    They just tell me to make sure that I don't miss a shot and must give one every 12 hrs. They did not specify that at any point I should skip one.
     
  59. Shenandoah

    Shenandoah Member

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    Nov 25, 2015
    Honestly, I think most vets are used to dealing with people who won't go the extra mile for their kitty. My vet told me about home testing upfront, but she didn't appear to think it was something I'd do - she's used to people who don't want to, and tries to accommodate as best she can.
    As unfortunate as it is, those of us around here are in the minority. So sometimes we need to go out of our way to make our vets realize that.

    I'd recommend my vet, but we're down in Colorado Springs, so I'm guessing that's probably even more of a trek for you :(
     
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  60. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Aria, please don't beat yourself up. Believe me, we've all been where you are right now: Being new at this; thinking things like, "Why didn't I KNOW?!" Feeling confused when you discover that your vet isn't very well-versed in treating a condition like feline diabetes; feeling pretty darned overwhelmed by all of it. Trust me on this: It gets much better; it gets easier. Just think: You've already learned so much in such a short time! You have your Georgie on low-carb food, you've learned to home-test his blood glucose, you've been doing your "homework" - reading, etc. because you are motivated to learn (which is a lot more than we can say for certain vets some of us have known:rolleyes:).

    AND you landed at FDMB! (I can't express enough how grateful I am for all the support and great, accurate guidance I've received from the other members on the forums here!!!)
    I am so glad to hear you decided against that in-office curve - see how much wisdom your own "gut" has provided you already?:) When you want/need the data that a full curve can provide (and at this point, you may not even need one, given the #s you're seeing currently), you'll get much more reliable #s by doing it at home where Georgie is more comfy and relaxed!
    I know that @Sue and Oliver (GA) is in the greater Denver metro area; perhaps she can provide you some good input about vets in the area.
    @BJM also has an excellent list of interview questions you can ask prospective vets. Unfortunately, when I'm up home in CO, my vet is way over on the western slope. Has been so many years since I lived in Denver that I can't even remember which vet I'd used when I was there.:confused:
     
  61. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    My vet doesn't broach the subject first. He waits till the owner does. To him it shows the owner is willing to. He is all for it though. He found if tells them they scared and back off. So he lets them bring it up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    That could be Georgie's pancreas helping out. In normal circumstances with a healthy pancreas eating causes the pancreas to produce pulses of insulin. Just before Saoirse went into remission her blood glucose level would drop within a couple of hours after a feed. If Georgie's pancreas is starting to sputter then you need to make sure you're getting as many BG spot checks as you can manage.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2015
  63. Martie L

    Martie L New Member

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    Dec 10, 2015
    Hi, I am by no way an expert with this diabetic stuff, I am dealing with this myself with my Murphy. I too am just starting to do home bg testing; BUT!! Be aware FOOD DOES MATTER!! I changed Murphy from dry to moist food and his bg levels went back down to normal!! However my vet has kept me giving him a high does of insulin, which I am questioning!! This is why I am doing my own home testing with hopes of getting help to regulate his insulin so I don't kill him by giving him too much insulin. I have always been told a reading between 80 and 120 is in a normal range. People here are great help, they won't lead you wrong, really listen to them!! :=)
     
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  64. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I think they are right its the diet. He is eating Tiki Cat and since his numbers drop. Also of course he was being curved at the vet before I knew what to do but I notice a good change in him since the switch to Tiki Cat. He responds better to it than FF by the look of his coat and such.
     
  65. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I suppose I will be giving his shot to him in two hours (his normal shot time). He tested at 203 just now (Hasn't eaten). I think I will lower the dose though. Maybe I will try 1.5 units.
     
  66. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    I think lowering the dose is a good plan, Aria - as last night's PMPS & this morning's AMPS are a clear indicator that he's needing less insulin.
    He's responding so well to the changes you've made - what you're seeing now is all good news!:)
     
  67. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    A lot of things can happen in 2 hours, so you'll still want to get that PMPS

    Hopefully he won't come up too much more and the 1.5 will be a good dose for him
     
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  68. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    Yes, Chris is so right - definitely get that pre-shot test, because if there's one thing we've all learned, it's that our sugar-kitties can certainly surprise us.;)
     
  69. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I appreciate all the tips and info from everyone. I can not tell you how much you guys help. I am definitely feeling more confident.
     
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  70. Carol & Murphy (GA)

    Carol & Murphy (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Aug 9, 2015
    I have a friend who is very connected in the feline veterinary world and is from Denver. I just asked her and she immediately said Tender Touch Animal Hospital in Downtown Denver
     
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  71. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Thank you Carol & Murphy. I will definitely check them out and see how it goes. I appreciate it.
     
  72. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Ok just did the PMPS and it was down again to 160 and he did eat 2 hours ago. He had a small bit of Tiki Cat with water. About a tablespoon of actual food. So 203 when he hadn't eaten and now 160 when he has....
     
  73. Robin&BB

    Robin&BB Well-Known Member

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    Sep 28, 2013
    I think what this is telling you, Cara, is that Georgie's pancreas is working. But do you see why it's so important to test at AMPS/PMPS time? Is amazing sometimes, how much the #s can change (blood glucose can rise & fall many times each day - that's to be expected).
     
  74. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    So you are planning to skip, great? Looks like the food change is making a huge difference!
     
  75. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I am worried about the balance of things at the moment. He is still a little above the "normal" range, I have not given him a shot in awhile. He eats, maybe should a little more to be sure he doesn't lose weight too fast. He is a little over weight but not obese. (Vet's words) he is a big cat, length and height wise. He looks a little smaller now but I do not have a scale..
    So I test, feed, shot if needed. Don't really shoot under 200... I ask a lot of questions sorry!!!
    Mainly, how do I get him into the green from here? This is what is confusing me most at this time.
     
  76. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    With a brand new diabetic, I'd suggest being cautious. Especially as the food change is making a difference and his pancreas seems to be helping. If he stays under 180 or so without insulin, I'd just keep feeding him the low carb and watch him. If he gets up above 200, you could give him a shot - but a tiny dose.
     
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  77. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Ok, AMPT was 181 so I gave him .05u went to work.. When I got home his test was 90. He was also hungrier than yesterday. (On another note, the little brat managed to turn on my gas burner on the stove, all the way up and wrecked a pot that was sitting there. Lucky he didn't burn the house down. What a scare though)
    Maybe its a good dose, I don't know because I wasn't able to test him throughout the day.
     
  78. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    When was the 90 - how long since the shot? That is pretty low, especially if he was lower earlier in the day (likely). I would plan to lower the dose even more - maybe pulling up 0.5 and letting out a few drops (if he is over 200)

    And next time, leave out some food so if he drops low, he can eat and being himself up.
     
  79. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    The 90 was +9 hrs after testing 181 and getting the shot. I don't really understand what numbers I am trying to hold on to.
     
  80. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    In general, you want to shoot over 200. If he is close (like 190) you could also consider a shot. But I would reduce the dose a little.

    If he is in the 80s 5-7 hours after the shot (the lowest point) then you want to pay attention. If he drops lower, then you need to intervene with regular food. If he drops below 70, then give some higher carb food and retest in 20 minutes.

    As he is dropping pretty with each cycle, I would always err on the side of caution and dose low, if you give insulin at all.
    Better too high than too low, always, with a new diabetic with changing numbers.

    Generally ProZinc gives you a smile curve, with the lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. The preshot numbers are the highest points and usually in the same range. So maybe 220 at preshot, 90 at the lowest point (+5-7 hours after the shot) and back up to the 200s at the next shot time.

    Make sense?
     
  81. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    In general, you want to shoot over 200. If he is close (like 190) you could also consider a shot. But I would reduce the dose a little.

    If he is in the 80s 5-7 hours after the shot (the lowest point) then you want to pay attention. If he drops lower, then you need to intervene with regular food. If he drops below 70, then give some higher carb food and retest in 20 minutes.

    As he is dropping pretty low with each cycle, I would always err on the side of caution and dose low, if you give insulin at all.Better too high than too low, always, with a new diabetic with changing numbers.

    Generally ProZinc gives you a smile curve, with the lowest point 5-7 hours after the shot. The preshot numbers are the highest points and usually in the same range. So maybe 220 at preshot, 90 at the lowest point (+5-7 hours after the shot) and back up to the 200s at the next shot time.

    Make sense?
     
  82. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Thank you for that. I appreciate all the help. :) My vet called me today to check up on Georgie. I told her about the numbers and she said she wants to see him sitting in the 100s. She asked if I was giving him his daily injections but I brushed past those questions. She expects him to get the shots twice a day still knowing the numbers? He will have a regular appointment next month to check his health otherwise. I hope she tells me he is good. :)
     
  83. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Great news about Georgie's progress. :)

    Weight reduction in cats needs to be very gradual to avoid potential problems with fat build-up in the liver.

    Digital baby scales are reasonably priced and ideal for monitoring a kitty's weight.


    Mogs
    .
     
  84. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I have been looking around the site for this answer but haven't found exactly what I want to know.
    I just bought a ReliOn Confirm because I ran out of strips for my alphatrak 2 (Also didn't read other strips work in the AlphaTrak 2 until after I tripped out and ran to the store) My vet does not carry strips currently (of course) Sooooo
    I did a reading on Georgie, PMPS it read 119. Does this number correlate to AlphaTrak numbers? How do I interpret the readings to know when to dose or how he is doing? (I understand I can use it to see patterns but I would like a simple way to know what I am seeing in the numbers.)
    I will go buy Freestyle lite strips for my alphatrak later but I guess it is handy to have two different machines about anyway.
     
  85. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    There's really no pat answer to correlate the numbers between the AT and a human meter except on the low end....68 on the AT = 50 on a human meter

    We've never gotten an EXACT answer to how to convert other numbers, but generally, the AT readings are about 35% higher than a human meter, so 119 on a human meter would be about 160 on the AT

    We used to say "add 30" to a human meter but there's been lots of discussions since then that makes it harder to convert since the writers of the Lantus protocol changed their original numbers (Used to be 80 = 50 but they changed it to the 68=50)
     
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  86. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I would just use the meter and not worry about any differences 119 is too low to shoot on any meter. With your human meter 50 will be the number to pay attention to for a low nadir
     
  87. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    I did not shoot him since yesterday morning but his numbers seem to be crashing. Relion meter read 49!
    I have fed him some regular kibble just now. :( :(
     
  88. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    How can he be going so low with no shot? It feels out of nowhere.
     
  89. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    If he hasn't had any insulin, you don't need to worry about him going hypo

    A normal non-diabetic cat's BG can be as low as the 30's
     
  90. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Can you confirm that you've just done a diet change, please?
     
  91. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    It's possible that getting the high carb dry food completely out of his system is all he needed! We've seen it before!
     
  92. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    No diet change recently no. He is eating the Tiki Cat and the Vital Essentials raw freeze dried still. I gave him his last shot of insulin yesterday morning because he was a little over but I gave him only a tiny dose. This morning his number was lower, then once today it was lower too now he got a really low number (49)
     
  93. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Hey Mogs!...Looks like she stopped the dry food about a week before Christmas
     
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  94. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    So what should I do now? Just test him again? He seems to be ok attitude wise. He played with his string with me. He ate but left food so he's not ravenous..... I hope he is ok
     
  95. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    as long as there's no insulin on board, he's fine!!

    ProZinc only lasts 12 hours so if you haven't given him any since yesterday morning, he's keeping his BG down on his own!

    You could test him again just to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with the meter/strip if you want to, but you really don't have to worry about him going too low without any insulin

    In the morning, test at his usual shot time and go from there

    Which meter are you using now Aria?
     
  96. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Using the Relion Confirm right now. Ran out of Alphatrak strips
     
  97. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    OK....one thing to remember....on the human meters, 50 is a totally normal number so 49 is just one point off that

    IF he had gotten insulin within the past 12 hours, you'd want to get him up a little, but since he hasn't, rejoice!!!....and get a good night's sleep without worry!

    Tomorrow is another day...we'll just have to see how he does
     
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  98. Georgie

    Georgie Member

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    Dec 25, 2015
    Thank you. Just when I think I understand it, I realise I do not know enough still.
     
  99. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    It was a good 6 months before I could say I "kind of" understood this crazy sugardance!!

    Be kind to yourself...you've only been at this a week!!

    All in all, this is good news!! Maybe the diet change will be all Georgie needs!
     
  100. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Fingers and paws crossed in the Shire ...

    (@Chris & China - Ta for the info about the diet change. :) )
    .
     
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