I made a big mistake with insulin dose

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Paul & Kit-10, May 25, 2020.

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  1. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    My 14 pound cat was diagnosed with diabetes last week. His # was 500. He was suppose to get 1 unit twice a day anlong with a change in diet. I got extremely lucky because I mistakenly gave my cat 10 units twice a day :banghead:with no obvious ill effects. His # is 80 please I feel terrible about this. My question is on his next dose due I go to one unit or do I slowly need to taper down one over a course of time? Again no signs of hypoglycemic. Very very fortunate.
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    OMG you have NO IDEA how lucky you are. No need to taper down... please go to 1 unit... but if 80 is his preshot number, DON'T SHOOT, THAT IS TOO LOW TO GIVE INSUILIN
     
  3. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    I have stopped. trust me. The 80 # was 6 hours after his first dose.
     
  4. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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  5. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Janet.

    What type of insulin are you giving?
    Can you show us the syringe you are using in a photo please with 1 unit drawn up. Thanks.
     
  6. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK that woke me up :oops: whoa!
     
  7. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  8. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    That's what I will be giving him in 2 hrs
     
  9. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Tis is what I'm drawing from
     

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  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    yes, that is correct. Before you give him his shot tonight, do a test (NO food at least two hours before). If the test is less then 200-250 don't give the shot. Stall an hour. If it's still under 250 don't shoot and wait until morning.
     
  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    so here is how you can help us help you. First, create a signature. GO to your name on the top right, and then signature. Enter info such as your pet's name, date diagnosed, insulin you are using, meter you are using, and food you are feeding.... and any other health concerns.

    next, follow this link and create a spreadsheet with whatever numbers you have. If you need help setting it up, just let us know. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
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  12. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    OK not home testing yet. I take him to the vet for that. With covid we don't do face to face with vet. Since I cant test and he acts normal would waiting till morning be a safe bet.
     
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  13. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK. Lantus is a "depot" insulin. That means that you may be seeing the effects of this shot for a while.

    I'd like to see another BG test before the next pre-shot. If the 80 was at +6, can you test again at +7 or +8?

    Do you have high-carb food available? Honey or karo?
     
  14. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK, missed that fact.

    If you can't home-test, I would be inclined to take him to an ER vet for the night-- better safe than sorry. Did your vet get the 80 and then send you home???
     
  15. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify: we might be able to walk you through an overdose like this if you were home testing and we knew what we were dealing with. Many cats sail right through things like this with no problems and without even going low. The problem is, some cats don't, and by the time they are showing external symptoms, it may be too late.
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I would get on that home testing sooner rather then later. Yes I would probably skip tonight since you can't test and he was only 80 earlier. You can use a human meter from any pharmacy. I have a video in my signature showing how I test at home.
     
  17. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    He said he doesn’t home test
     
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  18. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Skip Paul. Better safe than sorry and better high than low when it comes to feline diabetes
     
  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    what if he fed lots of high carb food tonight... do you still think an er visit would be necessary? I'm not a lantus user so I can't really wrap my head around how long the deposit lasts.
     
  20. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    I have nutrical and honey. Here's the thing he is eatting and drinking normally. No indicators of hypo I try to get him into vet in the morning and skip tonight's dosage.
     
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  21. Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA)

    Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Are you willing to learn how to home test? We have an insane amount of tips that will make it easy for you and we can guide you on interpreting the numbers too. Are you in the US? You can use a human meter and there are some great options, both of which are in my signature below
     
  22. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Then how did you know he was at 80 if you're not home testing, did you take him to the vet to do it
     
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  23. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem-- there's no way to tell if that would be safe. Lantus hypos can last for a couple of cycles. Often you don't see the effect of an overdose until the following cycle. The fact that he went down to 80 on (presumably) a pet meter at +6, possibly from a red or black number, worries me a lot.

    Tagging moderators @Sienne and Gabby (GA) and @Wendy&Neko who have tons of Lantus expertise.
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    instead of bringing him to the vet, just go to a CVS and get a meter. It's really not super difficult unless the cat is semi-feral. It's the tiniest of little pokes you need to make. Watch my video.
     
  25. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Paul, what time is it where you are living? Are you in a position to go out now and buy a human testing kit from Walmart or a pharmacy?
     
  26. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    7F678D21-C82E-4CEC-83EB-D71589863321.jpeg this is the tiny size drop I need to test. It's not a big deal. Some meters need a little more than this but it's only a drop.
     
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  27. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Lantus is a depot insulin and the Depot from days of giving 10 units will be big, so I would definitely skip the next dose, especially as you are not testing. What prompted you to take him to the vet to get him tested?
    Did you feed him some higher carb food since you got home?
    What did the vet say?
     
  28. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Can you tell a little bit behind why your cat was diagnosed with diabetes? Any other conditions like DKA present?
     
  29. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  30. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    OK its hard to keep up with all the msg so lets see if I can hit them all. Yes he got tested yesterday at vet at 2:30. Yes he was sent home. I thought I was dosing him right. I did not come to the realization until today at noon. After getting 2 additional doses. Drove to pharmacy with the syringes to confirm my mistake. Thus here.is where we are at. I happen to a human meter and strips from neighbor. Is there a You Tube video to refer me to?
     
  31. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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  32. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Also see Janet's signature on her posts-- she has a great video that she made!

    So, if I understand:

    Yesterday AM: 10U
    6hrs post-shot: BG 80 at vet
    Yesterday PM: 10U
    Today AM: 10U

    Definitely a lot of depot there...
     
  33. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Look at JanetNJ video she posted the pic and her link
     
  34. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Don’t beat yourself up about it. It was a genuine mistake and these things happen. You are not the first one this has happened to.
    We are all just thankful the mistake had been found and acted on :bighug:
    Have you fed him some food during the cycle today?
     
  35. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  36. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Look in my signature below. There is a link to a video showing how I test my cat CC at home. This is a drawing showing where you would poke.
     

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  37. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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  38. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Embarrassingly yes
     
  39. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  40. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  41. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    OK watched the video and looked at the illustration so I know my target spot. What's your hand motion when breaking the is it a poke or more like a side motion nick
     
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  42. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I always used the lancet device but if you are doing it freehand I would get yourself completely organised with the meter etc then get your hand close to where you want to prick it then do a quick poke.
    I would rub the ear for a minute first to get the blood moving and warm it.
     
  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I just poke straight in. It's ok if it goes all the way through, but I try not to do that.
     
  44. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'll poke on a 45 degree angle
     
  45. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  46. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    YIKES. How accurate is a human monitor. Taking the blood was easy. After seeing the number though have him some high Carb food and nutrical. It gave me a reading of 27 but this cat is acting normal. Last dose given at 8:30 am and definitely no dose tonight and going to hold off until I check his blood in the morning.
     
  47. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Try getting one more reading to make sure it wasn't from too small of a sample. If it's still low like that get him some high carb food and honey on the gums pronto. On a human meter anything under 50 is too low.
     
  48. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    ok so you gave the high carb food and nutrical. in 20 min and take another reading. We want to see that reading get over 50... it's very important. Some cats don't show signs of hypo until it's too late and they go from fine to seizures.
     
  49. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    my cat never shows signs of hypo either. Just yesterday she dropped to 40 (I use a pet meter, so anything under 68 is too low)... I would have had no idea if I didn't test her. Things can go from fine to bad quickly though.
     
  50. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes, test again in 20, let's see if that high carb food pulls him up. Don't feed too much right now, just a couple teaspoons. We may be at this a while and need him to keep eating so we don't want him full.

    You're doing great, Paul. Your vet let you down a bit, but you figured things out on your own and got going on home testing in record time!
     
  51. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Adding to the comment about not feeding too much, with a number as low as 27 you'll probably want to stick to nutrical for a little while. Looking at the ingredients, it seems like it's got a lot of corn syrup and things like that, so it should act like honey and hit the system quickly. We want to bring him up from there fast!

    What's your kitty's name, by the way?
     
  52. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  53. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  54. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    37 and yes. He's been given high Carb food and the stuff on his gums
     
  55. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Heading in the right direction. Give more high carb and test again in 20. :) You're doing an awesome job. we want to get him over 50 and then see if he can maintain a number over 50 once the high carbs stop.
     
  56. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Janet just posted almost word-for-word what I was going to say!
     
  57. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I would also put a couple of drops of honey on his gums. Put some on your fingers and rub it on his gums.
    He is still very low and has had a lot of insulin over the past week.
     
  58. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    What is the high carb food you are giving Paul?
    You are doing a great job helping your boy:D
     
  59. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    My main concern is that this kitty has been getting a very large dose of Lantus for several days, the depot is going to be huge and if we can’t get the BG up higher quickly, I think Paul needs to think about taking his kitty to the ER as he may need a glucose drip,
    So just to be on the safe side Paul I would make sure you have a plan in place and know where you are going, including the phone number in case this needs to be done.
     
  60. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think that's a good idea Bron
     
  61. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Nutrical and honey plus the dry foodhe use to eat. I got a feeling this reader is not accurate. Shouldn't I be seeing abnormal signs.
     
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  62. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    my cat never shows signs of hypo. She was 30 points below the bottom of normal and still acting fine. I would have had no idea if I hadn't tested her.
     
  63. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Is the high carb food you are giving dry, do you have any wet high carb food in the house.
     
  64. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I got a 22 once with Sheba and the only sign was she was suddenly hunger.
    Dry food takes longer to be digested. Wet high carb is better if you have any.

    must be time for another test?
     
  65. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Try testing yourself to see if the meter is giving odd readings.

    Not necessarily. Depends on the cat, depends on the day. The problem is that sometimes, especially at these kinds of numbers, they don't show any symptoms for a while, then suddenly go into severe hypo.

    How many hours has it been since the last shot? Again, we're likely mostly dealing with the depot here, but just so we know where we are.
     
  66. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Test it on yourself, what meter are you using, is there an expiration date on the test strip bottle
     
  67. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Nan I was typing the same thing to test on himself
     
  68. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    how many strips came with your neighbour's meter?
     
  69. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    OK I'm not going to sleep well tonight so I'm taking him to the vet and make the walk of owner shame
     
  70. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean you are going now?
    Can you ring ahead to make sure someone is there?
    you need to make sure someone will be at the vet all night and he’s not left on his own.
    Have you tested again?
     
  71. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You have nothing to be ashamed of! Really, really, really. Your vet let you down, but you are going above and beyond to fix that and keep your guy safe!
     
  72. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    well the important thing is 1. he's definitely going to be safe 2. you learned how to test and are prepared for the future. You did awesome tonight.
     
  73. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you are taking him Paul, please let us know what happens
     
  74. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  75. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Yes we are here. I have a 24 emergency clinic nearby.
     
  76. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  77. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Thanks but the vet only went by what I was telling her. I should have known better but thanks
     
  78. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    So you are at the 24 hour vet now?
    Did you manage to test again before you left?
    Did you give more food/honey.
    You have done a great job keeping your boy safe Paul tonight. Don’t feel bad. The vet should have shown you where to draw up the insulin to.
    Please keep us posted. You are part of the family now and we care?
     
  79. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No, really-- the vet should have done a demo of the 1U dose. We've seen exactly this confusion many, many times in exactly the same way. That 1U simply doesn't "look right", so it's easy to talk yourself into going up to the 10 mark. That's why the demo is needed, whatever the client says or the vet believes.

    Glad you're at the vet! Hopefully your little guy will start coming up soon.
     
  80. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    As I wait. Can someone explain or send me a link on the Depot. I'm sure its what it sounds like but would like to be sure
     
  81. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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  82. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Paul, while you are waiting, can you feed him some more or do another test?
    Do they know that he has had too much insulin and has very low BG?
    Did they give you a timeframe of how long you are waiting?
     
  83. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  84. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Oh they know. They took him in the treatment room. With this vivid thing you have to wait in your car while.they take them in
     
  85. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  86. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Sorry for mis grammar stress deminishs fine motor skills and I'm using my phone
     
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  87. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  88. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Thanks for the info on Depot. Don't have my head quite wrapped around it but enough to give me a OH SH** moment. Never knew about this concept.
     
  89. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Oh I see. They have taken him in. That’s good!
    Yes, we all have to wait outside in the car at the vets. I’m in Australia and we have to do the same thing.
    Lantus is a great insulin for cats.
    I’m sure you are stressed but he’s in the best place now to get the BG up to normal.
    What is his name?
     
  90. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Kitten
     
  91. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK, midnight here. Now that Kitten is at the vet, I think I'll log off for now and check back later to see how he's doing. Good luck!
     
  92. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  93. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Thank you. His bg is 102. Still waiting to talk to vet
     
  94. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    That is better. In normal range now. Just concerned the BG will be able to stay up on its own with the size of the depot which can still influence the numbers for up to 6 cycles.

    Ask the vet were those numbers taken with a pet meter or a human meter. The pet meter reads higher than the human meter so it makes a difference. The human meter is fine....most of us use those but when comparing numbers we need to compare apples with apples.
     
  95. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Oh he’s a beautiful ginger boy...my favourite!
     
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  96. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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  97. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    I'll ask about the meter. How long is a cycle?
     
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  98. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Paul, you just saved your cat's life today with home testing - well done! Kitties that have been overdosed with insulin can be even very sensitive to insulin afterwards. When he comes back home, we'll be suggesting a slow approach to dosing.

    A cycle is the time between shots - so 12 hours.
     
  99. Paul & Kit-10

    Paul & Kit-10 Member

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    Just ok'd a full blood panel to check all his functions. Ill know all the results in 30 minutes. I know everyone will be asleep by then.
     
  100. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Not me. I’m in Australia and it’s just after 2.30 pm.
    Ask for a copy of the blood results. They can either give you a hard copy or send a copy to your email address. then you can post them here. We have people who can read them really well and give you feedback.
     
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