I need 'newly diagnosed' diet suggestions

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Seven, Jan 12, 2013.

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  1. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Hi, I'm Denise and my diabetic kitty is Seven (he's 4 years old). He was diagnosed December 10 with a bg of 477, weight down from 15 to 11 pounds over a year. The vet changed his diet to DM and no insulin. December 31 was his 3 week recheck-bg of 346 and weight 11.7. We started out on dry DM but changed quickly to canned DM after reading on this site. He was eating great. We got him leveled out so he wasn't starving. But now and over the last three days he won't even eat half of what we feed him (we feed him 3 times a day). I feel like we were on the right track and now I'm worried his bg won't keep going down and his weight won't keep going up. I'm thinking I should go get him some fancy feast classics but not sure if this much changing of food is healthy for him. PS...He has stopped being agressive with his brothers and sisters, his water intake and urination is back to normal, but he is back to just laying around the house. We don't home check him but I have been researching it.

    Is it safe to change him to fancy feast classics now?

    And...maybe have some canned tuna (in water?) on hand?

    Any other suggestions?

    His recheck is coming up and the vet will decide then if insulin is required. For Seven's sake I really want this to stay diet regulated. Help!!

    Thanks
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome Denise and Seven. We'd love to help you. Everyone who replies to your post was overwhelmed at first and is paying it forward for help we received.

    The trouble with your vet getting a blood glucose level and then deciding to give or not give insulin is that cats are likely to be stressed at the vet, and stress raises levels. The best way to know how high (or low) his levels are is to test him at home where he is relaxed and happy. We'd love to help you learn how to test.

    Friskies pâté would be great. DM wet is liver based and many cats tire of the taste. My cat would eat anything but he didn't like DM.

    It is not good when they aren't eating well and not on insulin(if they need to be). It can cause a deadly condition called DKA . If he were mine, I'd go to Walmart, get a ReliOn meter, strips, a lancet device and some lancets (25-27 gauge). We can help you get started.
     
  3. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Three days no eating... I'm very concerned about hepatic lipidosis. Fat breakdown for calories can overload the liver making the cat very ill.

    No insulin over the past month - What does his breath smell like? If it smells like nail polish remover, get to the vet now - he may be going into diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). Not all cats will smell of this.

    If you gently scruff his neck and let go, does the skin stay pulled up or does it snap back? If it stays pulled up, he is dehydrated and you need to go to the vet .

    Are you doing any home glucose testing? Ketone testing? See my signature link. Secondary monitoring tools for info on how to urine ketone/ glucose test and get to a pharnacy to pick up some urine test strips.

    Blood glucose testing will tell you if he likely needs insulin. You will need a human glucometer such as the Walmart Relion (aka Arkray Gluocard 01), test strips, and some 26 gauge lancets. Anything over 200 and he could need insulin.
     
  4. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Thank you for your reply! I was wondering why, after only a month he just eats a few bites and walks away. Guess he was just starving at first and would eat anything.

    I am really nervous about home testing and know Seven will get those vibes from me. I've read about it but not watched any videos. Do you have to hit directly on the vein in his ear? And how much will it bleed?
     
  5. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Here is a video: Video for hometesting

    And lots of good links and info here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

    No, we aim for the little capillaries that come off the vein along the ear. It's not a disaster if you hit the vein (although you may get more blood than you want) but it's not a good practice.

    Here is a way you can prepare him:

    First pick a place where you want to test. Some people use the kitchen counter, a blanket on the floor, between your legs while sitting – whatever works for you. Take the kitty there and give him/her lots of praise while you play with his/her ears. Give a treat and release. Next time, add the rice sack (thin sock filled with raw rice, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) or a prescription pill bottle filled with very warm water. Lots of praise, treat and release. Finally add the lancet so he/she will get used to the noise. The hope is that when you finally poke, they will be used to the process and know a treat is coming!

    And a shopping list:
    A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

    Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

    Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

    Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

    Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

    And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats



    We've taught hundreds of people how to test; we'd be happy to teach you.
     
  6. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Thank you both for your replies!

    Seven’s breath does not smell like nail polish remover and the skin on his neck snaps back down after I pull on it.

    What are your thoughts on canned tuna and fancy feast classics?
     
  7. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    We love Fancy Feast classics. Canned tuna is an okay snack but not nutritionally complete. Be sure to get the kind packed in water, not oil.

    You do need to find a snack he loves to help with testing. Lots of members use boiled chicken cut into small pieces. Oliver loved Bonito flakes (freeze dried fish) and Niko likes PureBites: freeze dried meat snacks.
     
  8. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    If his breath had smelled like remover, we would have worried about possible DKA. Good that it doesn't. If his skin didn't snap back, we would have been concerned about dehydration. Good that it does!
     
  9. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    3:30 feeding: took a few bites of canned DM and walked away. My fiancé got out a can of canned chicken, I gave him a bit, and he ate it up. Heading to Kroger for some Fancy Feast Classics for supper tonight.
     
  10. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009

    Fancy Feast Classics is fine to feed :smile: There are many other brands you can feed as well. Here are some easy shopping lists you can print out:
    Dr. Lynne's Wet Food list
    List of low carb gluten free Fancy Feast
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84885
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=81687
    http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=84512

    Here are the more extensive food charts:
    Dr. Lisa's new food chart http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf
    Binky's canned food charts
    Pet Food Nutritional Values list
    Hobo's Guide To Nutritional Values

    Look for foods under 10% carbs on the above four charts.

    That would be fine for treats :smile:

    Here is a list of other treats you can feed: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9172

    Put together a box of stuff to use in case your cat becomes hypoglycemic. Here is a list of things to have on hand at all times: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

    Here is the hypo treatment info: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122

    High carb gravy based foods are great to use for a mild hypo. Any of the Fancy Feast varities in gravy (the grilled, sliced, gravy lovers, etc) are at least 18% carbs and good to use. There are other brands, of course. Whatever is over 18% carbs on the food charts can be used.
     
  11. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Many cats tire quickly of canned foods that contain a lot of liver...my Gabby ended up getting so picky she wouldn't touch anything with liver or byproducts (which are usually organ meat in canned food). I would get a selection of different low carb brands and flavors and see what he likes! Fancy feast pates are a good place to start because many cats love them. You can also try Friskie pates, Sheba pates, and if those don't work, try a premium food without liver or byproducts like Wellness or Merricks (I found my cats LOVED Merricks--Bandit gets Cowboy Cookout, Surf and Turf, and Grammy's Pot Pie, and when Gabby got super picky because of her cancer, it was one of the only foods she would regularly eat). It may take some trial and error finding something he likes, but you should find something. FYI, use the store finders on the Wellness/Merricks/EVO web sites to find a locally owned pet food store near you...they usually sell it in bigger cans and at much lower prices than the chain stores like Petsmart or Petco. I spend the same amount of money feeding Bandit Merrick's as I did Fancy Feast and it's a better quality food, and Wellness is actually cheaper than feeding Fancy Feast if you get it in the 12 oz cans.
     
  12. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Thank you thank you thank you!!! This is so overwhelming and having people help and answer questions is great!! Fed Seven FF Classic Savory Salmon for supper. He didn't finish it all but ate a good bit. I got a few varieties (no liver :) so we'll see how that goes. Checked out the treats at Kroger...no selection. I'll try PetsMart or WalMart (that's all that's available where I live). I also looked into Drs. Foster and Smith treats. I'll just keep my fingers crossed and follow all of your suggestions!!

    Thank you,
    Denise and Seven
     
  13. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Nice that he is eating! We did forget to mention that seafood should be a twice weekly (or so) food. The idea is that it has quite a bit or mercury, and that some cats can decide they would like to eat seafood and nothing else. A variety is best if you can find a couple foods he likes - a kitty smorgasboard, so to speak. :mrgreen:
     
  14. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Limit seafood based foods to once in awhile meals. Some cats get addicted to eating seafood and will refuse to eat anything else.



    PetSmart definitely has low carb treats :thumbup PureBites is one brand of suitable treats. I know PetSmart also has those bonito/tuna flakes which many cats love. Look in the dog treat aisle if you see much of a selection in the cat treat aisle. You want 100% freeze dried meat or fish treats. No jerky-like dog treats since those are usually too hard for a cat.

    Are there any independent non-chain pet stores in your area? They usually carry the higher end brands of foods and a wide selection of healthy treats. Ordering online is always an option and you can buy brands that aren't available in your area but shipping costs may be expensive.
     
  15. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Hi guys! Seven loves his FF Classics (2 cans of fish a week). I have a couple of questions for you out there:

    He is eating 4 cans a day. With his weight at 11.7 pounds, this is too much per can label. He used to weigh 15 pounds, he needs to gain weight. Is this too much to feed him? He does act like he could eat more sometimes.

    He is going back to the vet Monday. How much would you say BG numbers increase at the vet office due to stress?

    Thanks!
     
  16. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Here is a calculation that will help you decide how much to feed

    Then you can work out how many calories he is currently getting from here.http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

    Every cat is different and so you can't tell how much their blood glucose will rise at the vet. This is why curves at the vet can be inaccurate as well as costly. you are better home testing if you can.
     
  17. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Ok...well Seven ate all his breakfast (FF classic beef) this morning (7:00) and about 1:00 threw up big time-the color and smell was like his breakfast-mostly liquid. He didn't eat any at his next feeding but lapped up some juice off of canned chicken. He just threw up again-minor amount-of the same as earlier. The smell was very strong of his FF meal.

    Where is this coming from? He goes to the vet for his recheck tomorrow.
     
  18. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Could be a lot of things.. Upset stomach from the food change, too high or too low blood sugar, other problems. Let us know what the vet says.
     
  19. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Thanks for your reply. He did this a few weeks ago and a hair ball finally came up. Then he was back to eating normally. I hope it's simple. I don't want to change food again. I'll let ya know how the dr. visit goes.
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Tiggy does that too. Sometimes I put a dab of Vaseline jelly on his paw and he licks it off. Supposed to help pass hair balls.
     
  21. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Seven's BG level went from 377 to 340 today and his weight went from 11.7 to 10.13. I don't know what to think about it.

    Did find him some pure bites treats at PetsMart and he likes them.

    Your thoughts welcome,
    Denise and Seven
     
  22. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    My thoughts? The moved to dry DM and then to canned brought his blood glucose down a little, but not enough. So he still shows diabetes signs like starving and losing weight. What did the vet say about starting insulin?
     
  23. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    These numbers are from the vet? They might be 100 points lower at home (vet stress). The only way to know how he is really doing is to test at home, several times during a day. If he is in the 200+ range at home, you should probably consider starting insulin. If below 150, monitor carefully for a few days to see if the low carb food brings him down.

    Our general guidelines is that a cat in remission runs from 40-120, off insulin, with the majority of the time in double digits. Testing him at home will give you an idea of where he ranges.
     
  24. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    The vet didn't say he wanted to start him on insulin. He did say he wanted Seven back on the DM and off the FF. But if he won't eat the DM then what? I have seen Savory Selects DM. Any thoughts on that? I did email my vet the chart that included FF classics stats. Hopefully that will help him say FF is ok.

    Testing at home scares me. I wish there was a way to find someone local who would show me it's not as terrifying as it seems!
     
  25. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Testing is easy once you get used to it. Did you watch the video Sue provided? really you need to test to be sure whether he needs insulin and be able to discuss this with the vet.

    Where do you live? City/State? maybe someone can come round and show you if they are nearby.
     
  26. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2010
    First off what you feed your cat is your decision, your vet can make recommendations but he isn't the one buying or putting the down. Personally I have 14 cats 2 of which are diabetic, everyone here eats exactly what my diabetics do, plain old fashioned Friskies Pate style canned food. When my first kitty was dxed diabetic I was also sent home with the DM...not a single one of mine would eat it after the novelty wore off. However, on Friskies Pate my Maxwell has been in remission and off insulin altogether now for over 2 years and my newly adopted girl Autumn has gone from 1.5u to .5u and continues to work her way down the dosing scale and I have every hope of getting her into remission as well.

    Second...If you want to give us a general location (City & State) there is a pretty good chance we might have someone close to you that could pop over and teach you how to test at home.

    It really is nothing to be scared about...Both my Maxwell and Autumn were both adopted as diabetic so they didn't know me from Eve when I started to test them and yet they are both sweet loving cats that you wouldn't know I didn't raise from kittens, they have exactly the same love and attachment to me as those that did grow up here. And you have a head start your kitty already knows and loves you.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  27. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    I live in Paducah, KY. I really would like to take total control of this at home. It just seems more reliable. I have only read about home testing not watched any videos. I need to just bite the bullet and do it.
     
  28. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    For sure You can do it!

    Check out the video sue gave you the link for above plus read all the tips they gave you above and give it a go! It is a big step towards getting him regulated or into remission.

    And I agree, why feed a food the vet likes.. if your cats won't eat it and its expensive? He isn't the one paying for it or eating it!! Lol ;)
     
  29. Linda and Scooter & Jack

    Linda and Scooter & Jack Well-Known Member

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    Nov 9, 2012
    Oh My Gosh I totally understand the freaking out over beginning to test at home. I watched the video and talked to Jack and told him we had to do this together! He was patient and I hot packed his ear for about a minute with a warm cloth and then poked his ear on the very edge and blood came up. It worked the first time and he didn't even know it happened. I do it twice a day now and we have been doing this together for about a month now. Jack also comes to me for food if I am doing something and his blood sugar goes down. He seems to know the fancy feast helps him. He was on prescription diet and when I found it on the binky page it was actually not good for him. For over two months now he has been stable and without insulin but we still test twice a day. You can do this! It's only scarey the first time. It makes life so much better for you both. :D

    The folks here and the information Rebecca posted at the top of the pages is really worth reading. Try and read it all because it was really helpful to me in keeping Jack alive and well.
     
  30. WickedSteppMom

    WickedSteppMom Member

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    Oct 4, 2011
    Oh, I wish I lived closer to you! I'm in KY, but I'm in central KY...about 4.5 hours from you. I have 2 diabetic kitties: Stinky (who we managed to get OTJ about 6 weeks after diagnosis simply with home testing, diet changes & help from the great people here!) and Frankie (who we adopted BECAUSE he's diabetic, and he's doing really well on a low-dose of PZI insulin.)

    We feed ours the Petsmart store brand canned food: Grreat Choice. I haven't checked the food lists on here in a couple of months, but the last time I did, they were still listed by their former name: Sophistacat. We try to stick w/the foods that are under 6% carbs, only b/c that seems to help Frankie's levels stay more even than if we go up to 7 or 8%. Of course, it's not the most gourmet/organic food out there, but it has done wonders for my 2 guys (and none of my 3 are complaining!)

    As for treats, we found a bag of PureBites freeze-dried chicken treats in the dog size at PetSupermarket (an hour away from us), but Petsmart only seems to carry it in the cat size-which is kind of a ripoff, so I've been thinking about ordering online. Otherwise, we just get the Simply Nourish freeze-dried chicken treats in the dog section.

    If you want to give me a call at some point & talk through the testing, and food/treat ideas, feel free to send me a private message. Someone did it for me when I first joined & I know it made a HUGE difference in being able to take care of Stinky.
     
  31. MaryB & Chester

    MaryB & Chester Member

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    Dec 7, 2012
    My Chester has already learned the phrase "test and treat!!" and he comes running. He doesn't enjoy it, but he doesn't really mind it, either. We do a poke, get a blood drop and he gets some freeze-dried chicken or turkey or shrimp (Pure Bites from Petsmart).
    I freehand the lancet. I tried the clicker thing that came with the blood meter, but it was hard for me to get right and the click bothered Chester. The vet showed me how to free-hand and it's been so much easier. I'm lucky. Chester's ears bleed pretty easy.

    You can make your own decisions about food for your cat. My vet believes that "all cats need carbs" and recommends some pretty unhealthy stuff (up to 30% carbs? for a diabetic??) I'm just not really discussing food with her anymore and feeding what I believe (through research and recommendations here) is best.
     
  32. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Bummer wickedstepmom!! So close yet so far!! Ok- so we just watched Sue's video. I think we are gonna test 7 tonight. Makes me nervous!! I called Purina today and asked about the Savory Selects DM. It has 11.6% carbs (because of gravy) where the DM has 4.5% carbs. Isn't 11.6 high to be giving a diabetic cat? So that's out of the question. After researching all this i don't see why my vet wants 7 off FF--it's driving me crazy!

    So what are the dangers of over feeding a diabetic cat? Until I get things straightened out, I'm scared I'm either over or under feeding him.

    Now on a different subject-- I have a 2 year old 15 pound cat. She should only weigh around 10. Her diet in September thru November is when Seven's diabetes came up. What is a good diet food for her?

    Thanks for everything!!
    Especially the encouragement!!
     
  33. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    hey there

    You are correct, 11.6% is too high carbs for a diabetic cat.. but many people cant or wont transition to wet so for them (not you!!) its better than nothing. But if you feed too high carb, the cat is going to be hard to regulate and remission unlikely.

    I would ignore the vet and feed fancy feast. I mean , what would he do if you just couldnt afford the Purina? have the cat starve? My vet actually recommended fancy feast for its low carbs although he likes Wellness better cos its a higher quality food but FF does the job.

    I posted a calorie calculator above but since Seven is underweight I would be inclined to feed him as much as he wants for now. You dont want him losing any more weight.. is he still throwing up or has he passed the hairball now?

    I would feed the other cat the same food, its easier to control and means you dont worry about diabetes down the line. Feeding her wet will slow down the weight gain because its got less calories. Maybe try a bit more exercise?

    let us know how the test goes!
    Wendy


    Wendy
     
  34. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    OMG--WE TESTED AT HOME!!! 330
     
  35. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    GOOD JOB!!! How was it?

    330 is high, your cat needs insulin. Normal cat levels are 50-130. Vets like under 200.

    But take a few more readings over the next few days at various points in the day (morning first thing, after eating, after not eating for a while and so on) and then talk to your vet.
     
  36. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    I think the hairball has passed. He is back to eating and not throwing up. That's what he did the first time too. The vet gave us laxatone. Which leads me to another question for the pros out there: is laxatone a good idea? It contains corn syrup, malt syrup, cane molasses, etc. Seems kind of strange to give a diabetic cat BUT it's not big doses.
     
  37. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    It could still spike the blood a little.

    Most people here use Miralax for constipation. The dosage is 1/8-1/4 teaspoon orally twice a day with food.

    For a hairball lubricant, I use plain old vaseline (white petroleum jelly). I just dab a bit on Tiggys paw, and he licks it off. It's the exact same thing as Laxatone, but minus the sugary flavoring.

    If he doesn't need the laxatone I wouldn't give it, use Vaseline instead if you need to.. We don't want to spike his blood any more!
     
  38. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    It went fine as far as I know. I was the helper! My fiancé did the work. I held 7 and talked to him and he flinched once. And that was that!
     
  39. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Good job., it will get easier and it's great that you are training your fiancé too ;) it helps to have support!
     
  40. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    It wouldn't have gotten done without him!! I had to hide my eyes watching parts of the video then when we turned to MY baby...I thought I was going to throw up. But the freaking out stage is done so we can calmly take care of business from now on!!!!

    Thank you thank you thank you to everybody!!!! :D
     
  41. WickedSteppMom

    WickedSteppMom Member

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    Oct 4, 2011
    Hairballs always spiked Stinky's blood sugar, and after they passed, it would stay up for just a little while & then go back down...not necessarily to "normal", but better for a diabetic kitty. Another thing you can do for hairballs is give a little bit of canned pumpkin (make sure it's PUMPKIN, not Pumpkin Pie Filling!)-cats love the taste & it's low in carbs. I put a small amount in w/Stinky's food when he's having trouble w/hairballs or constipation...not more than about a Tbsp, or you're going to end up w/a whole other set of problems!

    I also free-hand w/the lancets...neither of my guys ever liked the click the lancing device makes & would turn their head, smearing the blood drop.

    My non-diabetic girl, Momo, was overweight when Stinky was diagnosed, she was around 15 lbs. Just by changing from having dry food they could graze on all day long to wet food they eat 4 times/day (we have automatic feeders that open every 6 hours), she's lost 4 lbs. She's held steady at 11 lbs for quite a while, and has gotten quite a bit of her energy back...and she was "squirrely" even when overweight, so now she's just nutso. :lol:
     
  42. squeem3

    squeem3 Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009

    Miralax is a powder so you want to dissolve it in some water first and then mix it into the canned food.

    There used to be a diabetic-friendly hairball gell called Vetbasis but I don't think it is made anymore. Here are suggestions for diabetic-friendly hairball gels: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=58010
     
  43. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    No way!! He loves pumpkin!! I just thought it was out of the question with his diabetes. That is good to know he can have it again!! He'll be excited!! Thanks for that helpful info!!
     
  44. Seven

    Seven Member

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    Dec 10, 2012
    Is there a certain label I should look for on Wellness catfood for Seven? (Like 'classic' on FF)
     
  45. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    I fed mine the Wellness Turkey and Giblets or the Chciken. I think most of them are ok. To check for sure, got to Cat Info and print out the food list there.
     
  46. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Did he ever go on the insulin? Are you still home testing?

    Just wondering how Seven is getting on!
     
  47. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Hi! Thanks for asking. He's not on insulin. His BG is still high. We are testing at home. He is being a very picky eater. I have to practically make him eat. He's tired of FF. I have him on Wellness right now. We've mixed his food with clam juice and fortiflora. He wasn't impressed. I got some chicken broth the other day. The vet told me he has got to eat after an insulin shot, if not the consequences could be bad. So given that info we are putting off insulin. I don't know what to do with him.
     
  48. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    He may not be eating properly cos his BG is high. Its a catch 22. You might want to start him on a low dose of insulin

    Have you tried rotating in Friskies pates?
     
  49. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Have you seen this vet's site for transitioning cats from dry to wet? She has great ideas: www.catinfo.org
     
  50. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Soooo.....after switching 7 to Wellness last week his BG this week is 274 (best # ever for him). Now after doing more research, I came across chromium picolinate. Has anyone used this? The vet and pharmacist doesn't think it will help much but I did buy some today and I want to start 7 on it tomorrow.
     
  51. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    It's the grain free wellness right?
     
  52. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Hi guys! Well, 7 is on Prozinc and has been since 4/23. 1 unit at 8:30 pm. He got really sick on 4/12 with some sort of infection and it got really bad. Of course we were fighting the diabetes and the infection(s) at the same time-it got ugly-BG ranging from 48 to not registering on a 500 glucometer in the same day. So this week we checked his BG-343, 353, 370, and 371. This morning the vet changed his insulin to 1 unit twice a day and feed only twice a day. I can't find it now, but I thought I read to feed them small meals more often a day. Am I correct? Or should I only feed him twice a day?
     
  53. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Is your cat used to free feeding or has Seven been meal fed? A switch can often upset the appetite and cause your cat to not eat. Personally, I would feed according to whatever schedule your cat is used to.

    I do not understand why vets recommend only 2 meals a day. That makes no sense to me and I've never heard a good explanation as to why they recommend that.

    The one limitation on the feeding we recommend, is to remove all food 2 hours before you do your pre-shot testing. This is so you know the number is a more accurate reflection of the actual BG (blood glucose), not a food influenced number which can be 30 to 100 points higher. ECID.

    The idea behind smaller more frequent meals is that
    1. It mimics their feeding style in the wild.
    2. Mini-meals spreads out the impact of all that food, resulting in more even or level numbers. Your cat is not trying to process the entire large meal in a couple of hours.
     
  54. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    When he was first diagnosed, we fed him 3 times a day. Since he was so sick and lost 2 pounds we have been feeding him 6 times a day. He was gaining his weight back till this week. I think I should at least go back to 3 times a day. 2 times just makes me nervous.
     
  55. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    The losing weight again could be a reflection of not enough insulin . Or not enough food.

    Diabetic cats need up to 50% more food. If there is not enough insulin to process the food, the food simply is passed through his digestive system without getting the necessary nutrients.

    Minimum to feed 15 calories per pound +70. So a 10 pound non-diabetic cat needs 150 +70 or 220 calories. A 3 oz can of Fancy Feast typically has about 90 calories, so 2.5 cans of Fancy Feast. A 5.5 ounce can of Friskies has about 180 calories so you need to feed 1.25 cans for a non-diabetic cat.

    A diabetic cat on the other hand needs more food until their BG numbers are better regulated. My foster Wink, 10.4 pounds ,was eating 4 3 ounce cans of Fancy Feast or almost 2 of the 5.5 ounce cans of the Friskies. He is still eating 6-8 ounces of food a day to maintain his weight, now that he is in remission. So, his appetite has slowed a bit with the better control of the BG numbers.
     
  56. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  57. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    While 7 was very sick, the vet thought they would fight the diabetes first then the infection. His BG was 470ish then. So they gave 7 1 unit of humulin n and sent him home telling me to feed him in 30 minutes. 7 wasn't eating and he was spitting up the food I force fed him. My fiancé couldn't get him to eat either when he got home so he took him to the emergency clinic. That vet took his BG and it was 48 saying it was that low because he hadn't ate. So the vet started pumping 'sugar water' in 7 and karo syrup. Then when he took 7's BG it wouldn't register. It was over 500. So it was just one big mess. Since starting Prozinc his first reading was 125 then 225 and 250 and now we are in the high 300's. We check him at home periodically. When I noticed the water going quicker and large clumps in the litter box we took the BG more than we had been.
     
  58. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Yes, I agree. It makes me nervous just reading about it. If he were my cat, he'd get more like at least 4 meals (two AM & two PM); but not knowing your cat's situation, I am in no way advising you. Mini-meals just make much better sense; meals twice a day can cause your kitty's BG to nosedive, among other things. Please keep us posted :D
     
  59. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    48 is a real low number; thank God, you took him the the ER. And the vet is correct. It is perfectly normal for the BG drop with no eating
    --how long after administering him with sugar/karo, did the vet take the 500+ reading?
     
  60. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    If you can get a few tests over the next few days we will be able to see what's going on.. Ie

    Morning preshot test
    Midday test
    Evening preshot test
    Before bed test

    It's always a good idea to do a preshot test to stop you from shooting if they happen to be low, but a couple of days of those other tests will tell us a lot of what is going on. Specifically I am trying to see how low he is going.. That's the number you base dose changes on..
     
  61. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Well I have decided to feed him 4 times a day. It makes me feel better you guys agree.

    His sugar was 378 at 5:00 pm today - before feeding and afternoon shot. Is this normal? He had his morning shot at 5:30 am. I'm beginning to wonder if the insulin is working on him or does it just take a few days????????

    I'm thinking the BG of 48 was right at 9pm and the 500+ was close to 11pm because we left 7 there right after that reading that night when the vet thought it would be best that 7 stay the night at the emergency clinic.

    Thanks for your help and comments. It just seems to be getting more frustrating.
     
  62. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I really think we need to have you set up a spreadsheet and link it into your signature. That way, we can tell more what is going on and answer those questions like this one "
    You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.

    How to create the spreadsheet and link it to your signature instructions are here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 Ask for help if you need it. There are folks here that can do this for you if you need help with the setup.

    I'd like to see the most recent week of BG tests on the spreadsheet. U is the units of insulin you give. AMPS is the test in the morning. PMPS is the test in the evening. + numbers are tests done after your pre-shot tests. +2 would be 2 hours after your pre-shot test.

    I see you started 7 on Prozinc back on 4/23. I'd love to see that and your meter in your signature.

    Prozinc is an 'in and out' insulin. No depot to build up like with Lantus. More of a "what you see is what you get" as opposed to a "what you shoot today, will be seen a day or two down the road".

    You may need to change the dose. I can't tell that without some data to look at. The 378 this morning is higher than we want to see. Still unregulated. We want to see pre-shot numbers in the low to mid 200's and a nadir above 40.
     
  63. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hows things going? Do you need help with the spreadsheet?
     
  64. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    No, I haven't messed with the spreadsheet yet. I'm so discouraged right now I think that will push me over the edge.

    Are there any videos on how to inject insulin? I'm gonna have to learn how and want all the info i can see and read on how to do it.

    We were told to give the shot in the neck but I'm reading where that isn't the best place. Sooooo where do you all suggest injection areas?

    Help.......
     
  65. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    There are lots of places you can inject ie..

    [​IMG]
     
  66. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Oh and I don't think I mentioned 7 takes Benazepril everyday for his kidneys. Just a FYI.
     
  67. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Thanks for the pic!
     
  68. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    7 ate at 6:00 pm and got his shot (1 unit) at 6:30 pm. Just took his BG at 8:30 pm--410.
     
  69. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Ate at 5:00 am, shot at 5:30 am, ate at 9:00 am, BG 349 at 12:30 pm
     
  70. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    ? are you getting a preshot test every time? Worst thing you can do is shoot when Seven is low... Also then you need to get a mid cycle test to see how low the PZI is going. Both those tests will tell you how the dose is working and if you need to change.
     
  71. Seven

    Seven Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    We aren't testing every time. He is still drinking and urinating a lot. His # stayed in the 400's all weekend. Talked to the vet Monday and he upped 7 to 2 units twice daily. Last night we got a 317. That's the lowest it's been.
     
  72. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Since you aren't blood testing all the time, please get and use some ketodiastix and test the urine for ketones, as well as glucose. Ketones are a by-product of fat breakdown.

    Too many ketones may indicate diabetic ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal, expensive to treat, complication of diabetes. If you find obvious levels of ketones in the urine, it is a medical emergency. Some cats also will have breath which smells fruity or like nail polish remover.

    Glucose in the urine indicates the renal threshold for that cat has been exceeded since the last void. The renal threshold is when there is enough glucose in the blood, it spills into the urine. You might also notice that the urine is sticky.
     
  73. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better.

    Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
    On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
    On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side. Select Edit Profile.
    Go down to the location field and enter your country, state/province, and city if you are willing to share that info.
    Click on submit to save this change.

    Still in the User Control Panel, Profile tab, this time select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
    A free form text box appears.
    We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

    Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

    Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts.

    Would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.

    The alternative is to create a profile. See this link on the how to's. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79123
     
  74. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    How is 7 doing now ( very cool name btw) Would love to see some more tests to see if we can refine the dose.. :)
     
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