Ideal Insulin Needle for cats? | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

Ideal Insulin Needle for cats?

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JacksDads

JacksDads

Member since 2010
Wondering if anyone with some experience can weigh in
we're thinking about buying a re-usable syringe that measures in micrometers, microliters (thanks for spotting that Vicky!) which would allow us to easily measure dosages in the 0.1u and 0.25u ranges that we need with our undilutable lantus. We've found a possible supplier but we have some question about the technical specifications, namely:
1) does it matter if the length of the needle is 1/2" or 5/16"? I think the needles we are currently using are 5/16", but given the choice should we pick one over the other?
2) we have the option of going for a needle as fine as 36 gauge. Is that TOO thin? I haven't seen any commercial insulin specific needles that have been finer than 31, or maybe 33? Is there a reason that we wouldn't want the finer needle?

If we do end up purchasing we'll let you know how it works out for us.
thanks!
 
I think needle length is really a personal preference. We started out with 1/2" needles, switched to 5/16" and I prefer the shorter needle myself...I feel like I give less fur shots with the shorter needle. Other people like the longer needle. Can you buy a few syringes with a shorter or longer needle and try it out? That is what I would do. As far as needle gauge, the higher gauge needles are thinner and are felt less by the cat, but it also makes it slower to draw and shoot the insulin...I use 31 gauge needles, don't have problems with it, but I'm not sure I would go any thinner. The other problem with thinner needles is that they bend easier. We have had needles bend when trying to shoot when the cat has moved...I wouldn't go finer than 31 gauge.
 
JacksDads said:
We've found a possible supplier but we have some question about the technical specifications, namely:
1) does it matter if the length of the needle is 1/2" or 5/16"? I think the needles we are currently using are 5/16", but given the choice should we pick one over the other?
2) we have the option of going for a needle as fine as 36 gauge. Is that TOO thin? I haven't seen any commercial insulin specific needles that have been finer than 31, or maybe 33? Is there a reason that we wouldn't want the finer needle?

If we do end up purchasing we'll let you know how it works out for us.
thanks!
Click to expand...

U100 insulin syringe reference chart for many popular brands: http://www.diabeteshealth.com/media/pdf ... h_2010.pdf 31 guage is the smallest available needle on commerical insulin syringes

Needle gauge and length is preference.

Some people prefer the longer 1/2 inch needles because their cats have long fur or they feel that there is less chance of a fur shot.

Others like the short 5/16 inch needles because you can pretty much stick the needle in without tenting the skin. And I guess there is the perception of "shorter needle = less pain".

A thin needle will hurt less but the thinner gauge you go, the longer it will take for the insulin to flow because of the smaller interiour diameter of the needle. Think flowing water through a large diameter garden hose vs flowing the same amount of water through a much narrow diameter drinking straw. With a 36 gauge needle, it would probably only take a couple seconds longer than say a 30 gauge needle to get all the insulin injected but for some cats that could be a couple seconds too long for them to hold still.

Just saw that you live in the same area that I am :smile: There are a few other members in the area and some in other parts of the state.
 
I do not think you can get a 1/2 inch 36 GA. It is too thin and would bend too easily. For 31 GA, you can only get then in 5/16 inch length not 1/2 the last time I looked. 5/16 might be too thin for 36 GA.
 
i wouldn't bother with the 36 gauge. 31 gauge is wonderful and my cat doesn't even notice it going in.
5/16" is a personal preference, because with it i don't need to tent to shoot. i just feel around to make sure i'd be shooting into a soft area rather than a muscle or bone.

i shoot into the flank or side of the belly: http://www.bd.com/us/diabetes/page.aspx?cat=7001&id=7374
 
As for me, I use the shorter needle and 31 gauge (I'm pretty much the queen of bent needles, so I personally wouldn't use a smaller gauge). Neither B.K. or Chester even notice when they're getting the stickers.
 
I guess the syringe is re-usable but you change the needle each time ?

I would be wondering how you sanitize the syringe between uses.

You certainly do not want any contaminants entering the insulin vial or cartridge.
 
You don't want a finer than 31G needle because finer than that is unnecessary and would bend far too easily.

May I inquire as to what type of syringe doses in "micrometers?" Micrometer is a measure of length, not volume. Do you mean milliliters? Insulin should not be dosed in milliliters. .25ml is not the same as .25U of insulin.
 
with 1/2" long needles, you need to be careful not to poke too deep and hit muscle or bone (ouch!)

I also use 31ga 5/16" disposable syringes with 3/10cc volume (holds max 30 units)

definitely double check the measurement amounts.

1u of a U100 insulin like Lantus is 0.01 milliliters

Do you have a link to the syringe you're considering?

Both my diabetics are getting 0.25u BID and sometimes I would like to give a bit less more reliably.
 
I personally had trouble telling if I was shooting the cat or her fur with the short needles. I use 1/2" because of that. The downside is that you have 1 option of a 30 gauge needle made by BD- everything else is 29 gauge.
 
So the syringe we're considering to purchase is: WPI NanoFil 10mL

To answer Karen's questions:
Karen & Smokey(GA) said:
I guess the syringe is re-usable but you change the needle each time ?
I would be wondering how you sanitize the syringe between uses.
You certainly do not want any contaminants entering the insulin vial or cartridge.
Click to expand...

The syringe is made of glass and the needle is stainless steel. The needles are sold in 2-packs (an extra, if one breaks - but "they shouldn't break" the WPI Rep told me). And they are cleaned after each use. One cleaner that WPI suggested using was a sanitation solution called Cydex.

As for gauges greater than 31 being too bendable - WPI says their reusable syringe needle tips won't bend - if anything, they'll break before they bend - because they're made from stainless steel. (Anyone know what the disposable ones are made of?) I believe the real issue with smaller size reusable gauges (Greater than 31) is they're more likely to get clogged potentially. I think the NanoFil only has sizes from 33 to 36.

Click here for a pdf with more about the NanoFil Syringe.

Next Step

The syringe is $85, a 2-pack of needles is $80, and the a quart of cleaning solution is $16. (All together - Under $200. So it would equal the cost of less than a year supply of disposable syringes if you are using 2 syringes per day). It's a big upfront cost - especially for using a method/product that it sounds like hasn't been explored by anyone connected to this board yet (and if I'm mistaken and there is info or someone on this board that has had experience using reusable microliter syringes for dosing less than 1u - please share! :-D )

So I have some more questions for the guy I'm talking to at WPI before I purchase the syringe (like needle length, durability, gauge availability, any guarantee/warranty, what's the smallest amount of measurement marking). I'll be calling him Monday morning - thanks for the questions everyone - it's helpful to have more questions that I haven't thought of to ask him.

Clarifying Measurements

Thanks Vicky for pointing out that at the beginning of this condo, we posted "micrometers" instead of "microliters" - all the u's and micro's and measurements can get confusing to newbies like me - (Yoshi)... so here's my best understanding of the measurements...

1u of Lantus in a U-100 Syringe = 0.01 mL (milliliters) = 10 uL (microliters)**
0.1u of Lantus in a U-100 Syringe = 0.001 mL = 1 uL
**technically - the "u" in "uL" is the Greek letter "mu" - which looks like a u.
1 mL = 1,000 uL
 
I would be scared to use any re-usable needle.
I am new to all this, but it just doesnt sound right.
How do you really know if a burr would not occur with that needle?
 
Gingers Mommy said:
I would be scared to use any re-usable needle.
I am new to all this, but it just doesnt sound right.
How do you really know if a burr would not occur with that needle?
Click to expand...

What is a "burr?"
 
Thanks for posting the link --

Note that the available needles are "Beveled" or "Blunt"
http://www.wpiinc.com/index.php/NF34BV-2.html?pop=0
http://www.wpiinc.com/index.php/NF33-36BL.html?pop=0

Beveled is like the disposable syringes that we use -- the tip has a sharp point which breaks down after use, creating a "Burr" or tiny bit of rough metal (OUCH!)
Scroll down to see pictures of a new syringe, and used once, twice and 6 times --
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Syringe


The Blunt has a square end -- making it a bit harder to puncture the skin (OUCH)

So... I would suggest going with the 34ga beveled needles.
 
I think I have too get a longer needle. Doing fur shots. Have a 4 MM 32 Gauge right now. 60 minutes after Insulin BG 32.9
 
Larry and Kitties said:
For 31 GA, you can only get then in 5/16 inch length not 1/2 the last time I looked
Click to expand...
I use Monoject/Covedin 29 gauge with a 1/2" needle. The longer needle helps with a long haired cat. This only works on a cat with a lot of "meat on the bone", I'd never try this on the scruff.
Did you mean re-useable syringes as in the entire syringe, barrel and needle? That's going to hurt.
used syringe.JPG
 
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