Insulin Resistant.... PLEASE HELP

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by wyleesmom221, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. wyleesmom221

    wyleesmom221 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    My Beloved Boy Wylee was diagnosed last April. He is 6 years old & the drinking
    & Urinating was very out of control. I am a vet assistant & felt I picked up on it rather quickly. He is a sweet boy but DOES NOT tolerate his vet visits at all. The first Dr. I work with put him on Glipizide 2X daily- This did nothing. Then he put him on Humulin U100 Insulin - just one unit in the AM & one in the PM. Took him in to work for Fructosamine test & he is at about 700- I tried a different Dr. at work & we increased his dose on the U100 several times- more Fructosamine tests- no change. The last change has been to change him to P
    roZinc U40 Insulin. Yet ANOTHER Fructosamine test - again bad results. I am now at 4 units in the AM & 3 in the PM. No clinical changes. I am feeling very defeated & do not know what to do. The Doctors have sadly not been much help. I have read that there has been success in mixing both a short & long acting insulin. If anyone has any comments & has been through this- I beg you to please share. Thank you!
     
  2. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Hi and welcome to you and wylee. May I ask your name ?

    I have a few more questions that will help members understand your situation. Does he have any other health issues? What are you feeding him? Do you ever test him at home? Is this something you would consider?

    There are plenty of members here with a whole variety of experiences and I am sure we will be able to help you..
     
  3. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I am sorry you and your boy Wylee are having sunch a hard time. Do you or can you test at home? We test our cats before each shot and mid cycle to see how the insulin is working. That might give you more information than a fructosamine test - at least in terms of how the insulin is working daily. The fructosamine is an average over a couple weeks. It is possible that he is bouncing from lows to highs and that influences the fructosamine upward? If you have tests, can you post them? If not, can we help you learn to home test? Being a vet tech should make it fairly easy.

    We put a protocol for ProZinc together. It is in blue type in my signature.

    It is also possible that he is a high dose cat. We do have several of those. Do any of these symptoms sound familiar?

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-other-high-dose-conditions-what-we-know.375/
     
    Elizabeth and Bertie likes this.
  4. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Welcome to FDMB.

    First, some info:

    Humulin or Novolin NPH generally lasts only 6-8 hours in the cat, leaving 4-8 hours uncontrolled when you administer it every 12 hours. This lack of control will show up in the fructosamine.
    Prozinc, Lantus, Levemir and BCP PZI all last roughly 12 hours per shot in the cat, some with overlap between shots to smooth the control.

    Home testing of the blood glucose using an inexpensive human meter, plus feline specific reference values, will help you see how the insulin is working over the 12 hours, and provide feedback for dose adjustment. See my signature link Glucometer Notes for more details. The WalMart ReliOn Confirm, aka Arkray Glucocard 01, is one that many of us use here.


    What you feed makes a difference ... and veterinary diabetic diets are no better, and may be worse, than over the counter low carb canned foods. See Cat Info for more explanations.

     
    wyleesmom221 likes this.
  5. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello, and welcome to FDMB.

    While it is possible that Wylee has a high dose condition there is also the possibility that dose is actually too high at the moment.
    When a cat's blood glucose drops too low (not necessarily 'hypo' low; it could just be that the blood glucose is dropping lower than the cat is currently comfortable with) this can trigger the body to put out more glucose into the system in order to raise the blood glucose to a comfortable/safe level.
    Since fructosamine tests give an average of blood glucose levels, the 'highs and low's can be missed...

    As others have suggested, it would be hugely helpful if you could test Wylee's blood glucose at home. This is nothing at all like the scary experience the cat has when having it's blood tested at the vet. It is a quick and painless process, and shouldn't cause any upset to the kitty at all (though it can take a few goes to get the hang of things.) Most of us here reward our kitty for each test (or attempted test) by giving a treat or a cuddle, and cats can actually learn to look forward to the experience (mine certainly does!)

    Big reassuring ((hug)) to you,

    Eliz
     
    wyleesmom221, Critter Mom and KPassa like this.
  6. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Humulin is the trade name for a family of Eli Lilly insulins. Humulin is not a specific insulin. You can get "Humulin " in N (sometimes called NPH), R, and a combination of N and R.
     
  7. wyleesmom221

    wyleesmom221 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Thank you all so much for your responses. I do have the Alpha Track to check him. Needless to say it has not gone well. But I can get him with help. The only issue is he gets so stressed when I test him, I wonder how accurate results are. I will try treats & see how it goes. I feed him Royal Canin diabetic food. Dry & wet. He is a little monster & opens cabinets & tries to eat Everything but I stop him. Thank you so much. I don't feel so alone any more.
     
  8. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Can you tell us what is his current dose? Also, dry food is high in carbs including the Royal Canine. Right now because his glucose levels are high, his body is not processing the food correctly and that is why he is starving. Try feeding him more canned food and start removing the dry food from his diet. You need to be hometesting though since a diet change can dramatically drop the glucose levels. This is especially important if his insulin dose is too high.

    Once his glucose levels get under control, you should see his appetite go back to normal.
     
  9. wyleesmom221

    wyleesmom221 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Got More Royal Canine wet food & also Hills Diabetic wet food. Going to transition. Home testing again starting tomorrow. He is very strong & fights it. Any tips on how to make this go smoother... 4 units in the am & 3 in the pm of pro zinc. I am considering looking in to checking his Thyroid again as well. I did a regular T4 at work & he was 3.8 which is borderline. Next I would do a send out.
     
  10. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Here are 2 documents for you on the home testing. Hoping some of these ideas make it "go smoother" for you.
    1. Top Ear Testing Tips This is more the How-To's of home testing with lots of great ideas.
    2. Ear Testing Psychology or How to make your cat more comfortable with the process. Written by member Kpassa when her semi-feral kitten was diagnosed at only months old with Feline Diabetes.

    Treats or bribes. Weather that be food, or special attention. Some play time or snuggling or ear scritches or brushing. Find something your cat loves and you can teach him to come running for his test. Wink's bribe, er I mean treat, is freeze dried chicken. Either the Pure Bites or his favorite Halo Liv-a-Little.
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    After looking at your post, I wasn't sure if you wanted the transition to wet food to go smoother or the testing. So here is an article by vet Dr. Lisa Pierson on Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.

    It was invaluable to me when Wink, a life-long member of DFAA (Dry Food Addicts Anonymous), needed to be switched to wet food from dry. I printed it out and read and reread it many times. Truly helpful.
     
  12. kitty & bear

    kitty & bear New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Hi, I feel your frustration, I too, am in the veterinary field and when my 4yr old cat was dx, he was dx initially myself, not the vet. (although the vet I work with is very involved now)
    We thought Bear might be resistant too but when I switched to using a bovine based prozinc insulin, compounded by BCP Pharmacy in Texas. Things changed for the better. Having good results with it, longer smoother curves. In addition I also changed to very low carb dry and canned food.. He had always been on dry food and I work long hours so can't do strict portion control. He has"normalized" now and the symptoms (pu/pd) have decreased significantly. Hang in there, patience is rough at first but it will come.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    How is Wylee doing?
     
  14. wyleesmom221

    wyleesmom221 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2014
    Wylee is doing about the same. I am feeding him only canned food & have tried some new techniques for the glucose monitoring but have really not been successful. Even when he's eating as soon as I try for his ear he starts to struggle. Now I restrain & have gotten blood from many kitties in my job but he is just so quick it is very stressful for both of us. When he struggles he gets stressed & that brings his level up & its not really accurate. I refuse to give up though & will try to keep testing him. I am also bringing him into work next week to do another Fructosamine & look into the Thyroid further. I spoke to another Dr. on Saturday. She brought up another Insulin - Glargine. Have you heard anything about that one? I am looking into it. Thank you again for checking in with us.
     
  15. Maggies Mom Debby

    Maggies Mom Debby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Glargine is also called Lantus. It's a human insulin that lasts 12 hours in most cats, it is designed to slowly release in the body. My guess is that most of the cats on this forum are on Lantus and have had good results. It can be expensive, so if you change ask for a RX for the pen. We use them with a syringe just like the larger vials. Go to http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/ and read the "stickies" for more information about Lantus (Glargine).
     
  16. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If you go with Lantus, get an Rx for the pens. Each pen is 3 mL and contains 300 units. Generally, stored in the refrigerator on a stationary shelf, you can use the entire pen before its effectiveness wanes. If you get the 10 mL vial (1,000 units), you'll often wind up throwing some of it out at around 6 months.
     
  17. kitty & bear

    kitty & bear New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    I had tried the ear a few times but B Bear fought it too. He is generally fairly complacent when I do things to him with out restraint, a calm reassuring voice and lots of petting and fussing over him afterwards. He was very uncomfortable on the sink counter but always sat on the toilet lid to watch me get ready for work, so that became the testing area. I take his BG tests right from his jugular with an insulin syringe and no one holding him, I scratch his neck before and after while holding off. He is very good for it this way and we only need a drop, the sample stays contained in the syringe while I put the strip in the meter, and voila! Hopefully :) I know not everyone will approve of this method but I learned this technique years ago from an old vet I worked for and he proved it to me on my own old beloved but but very crotchety kitty who had always needed a 3 person pin down to get blood from her in the past. To my surprise she just sat there like a doll and was the only one to give blood that day. You're a tech, you can do this!
     
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Are you giving treats for testing? Something pure protein would be good.

    Do you have a "testing spot"? Away from the distractions, the hectic chaos of other kitties or other people can be helpful. I had to shut my other two cats in a separate room to test Wink.

    Does your kitty have a favorite spot? Perhaps take your sugarboy Wylee to his "safe spot" to test.

    Have you introduced the testing process to your cat in many small steps? Even doing this steps a dozen times a day or more can get your kitty used to the process and more cooperative.

    Do you sing or talk to your kitty while you are trying to test? Some people sing the "hokey pokey" song as they go along testing. Hearing your voice can help to calm your cat.

    Are you nice and calm when you test? Cats pick up on our mood and negative vibes can be translated to them very easily. An attitude of "this is no big deal, I can do this testing" can influence you to be calm, cool and collected and that can make testing easier.

    Have your tried the "Burrito Wrap" for testing time?
     

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