Introducing Simba and Mariella

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Mariella & Simba, Aug 30, 2019.

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  1. Mariella & Simba

    Mariella & Simba Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Hi all. Hoping to learn a lot from all here. My husband and I have worked in cat rescue for many years, and dealt with a myriad of health problems in cats, but never diabetes until now. I volunteer for Forgotten Cats in Delaware, and several years ago trapped a cat who was either feral or had been abandoned in a rental townhome community. I felt he was adoptable, but he was too shy and was overlooked in the adoption center and at events. I quickly learned he hated other cats, so he had to live separate from my others. We adopted him and he will be 8yo in November. He became a regurgitator, and was dx'd with IBD a few years ago. He is also a "food fanatic", scarfing any food he can find. His vomiting is how he expressed his IBD. Finally, we stabilized his IBD with a diet of freeze-dried duck (at first), and then rabbit (Stella and. Chewy, and Vital Cat patties), along with Royal Canin prescription rabbit LID. We took him for routine bloodwork mid August, and to our great surprise, he was dx'd with diabetes, blood sugar of 405 on his blood panel, had a UTI, and sugar in his urine. He had displayed virtually no symptoms, except a bit more ravenous than usual, but no frequent drinking or peeing, and maintained his obese 16+ lb weight. Due to his food obsession, he begged a lot and we allowed him to get too fat, our bad. The only carbs in his diet was the prescription dry for his IBD, and probably not even a quarter cup daily. His primary diet was/is the freeze dried raw.
    Vet did his first glucose curve at the office and started him on one unit of Lantus 2x a day, and only two meals a day. I immediately cut out the dry food, and he ate only his raw. After the first week we did our own curve at home, with readings at 320, 340, 320, and 380 in the evening. He was very very hungry that evening and had worked himself into a frenzy by the time he could eat, which is why I think the last reading was 380. She said to keep him on the one unit for another two weeks and do another curve, and if his numbers weren't into the 200's, we would up his insulin to 2 units. He tolerates the shots, and testing fairly well, but is really struggling with only two meals a day. She is adamant he must adhere to that protocol to have a chance for remission. She is a primary VCA vet, who seems to be good, but have not used extensively. She admits to not being good with nutrition and suggested a consult with an internist. We have a great one at our specialty center we have used in the past, but due to the center being bought by Blue Pearl, he is the only internist left of three who were there, and is a accepting no new patients.
    As I usually do when confronted with something new with my kitties, am researching a lot. I instinctively feel many small meals through the day would be better for blood sugar, and that is how we stopped his vomiting for a long period of time. But, he vomited his breakfast today, as he was hungry from the time we went to bed around 11 to 7:30, his breakfast time. Thankfully, I hadn't yet given his insulin. He felt like eating after a short while and ate a small meal of a sample I had requested of a dry food for diabetic cats called Young Again (youngagainpetfood.com). It has zero carbohydrate, yes really, hard to believe. I just happened upon it in a search for low carb foods. The vet said he could go as long after eating as 30 minutes to get his shot, so I have been feeding him his freeze dried raw, and then going downstairs to prepare his shot. As an incentive to accept the shot, I am feeding him an Inaba Churu chicken fillet while I give him the shot. It has no carbs. His total daily food intake only equals 182 calories, yet he isn't losing weight. I don't trust the calorie count of his raw, and have written the company to ask them to explain. In response to him not losing,. I have cut him back another 27 calories. He gets only half a chicken fillet at each shot time as of yesterday, perhaps why he was so starved this morning..
    I am wondering what this group might know about the Young Again food. On their website are many testimonials for diabetic cats who have gone into remission eating the ZERO food, even while free feeding it. There are many that never even went onto insulin. I would love so much to be able to let him have four small meals a day, and I can see this group supports that. I fear repercussions from his vet if we do that, however.
    I don't have his numbers from his first glucose curve at the office, and there wasn't much of a "curve/nadir" with the curve we did at home. She mentioned there should be a nadir (low point), but his numbers were in a tight range, for the most part. She had us test only 4x in the 12 hours, beginning and end, and 5.5 hours, and again 3 hours after that in midday. I thought that was maybe because Lantus is a slow acting insulin that perhaps smooths out peaks and valleys.
    Simba will eat the Young Again sample food. It is very high calorie because it is all meat, no carbs or grains, so portions to lose weight would be small. I have emailed with the President of the company, and he suggests portion control for Simba, rather than free feeding, to keep him from gaining even more weight at first. I am fine with that, if he could just eat something more often.
    I apologize for this very long message, and look forward to members' reactions to the information I have shared. Thank you for any comments you have.

    Mariella and Simba
     
    (GA) Gypsy's Parent likes this.
  2. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Hi and welcome Mariella and Simba. My goodness, congratulations on your methodical research and I'm so glad you have found FDMB. There a number of valid points and questions that need to be addressed and answered. There are members here who have effectively treated feline diabetes for years, as well as very new members who are dealing with the same issues and questions that you are.

    First, just to help the rest of us out, please create a signature with Simba's pertinent information that will display with each post:

    Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
    click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
    click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
    type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

    Another thing that will help us help you since you have started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. You will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review his/her progress before offering suggestions or advice:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

    Please plug in the data you have so far so we can see what's been going on.

    Next, since you provided so much good background information and have several questions about diet, Simba's hunger plus the IBD issue, and the blood sugar test levels you have I would like to have you take this discussion to the Main Health forum HERE . This forum is only the welcome mat and more members monitor the Main Health area to be of assistance. You can copy your message here, start a new thread there and just paste the message.

    We have lots of information to help you with all the concerns, and this is a very supportive environment. We can review the message, and answer point by point and help you help Simba. :cat:
     
  3. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I tried the Young Again Zero a few years ago. None of my cats like it. My dog loved it. Other hear have reported that although their cats ate it, it caused stinky feces and for some diarrhea.
     
  4. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2019
    Welcome Mariella and Simba!

    I too have a kitty with IBD who scarfs and barfs her food, so I understand the struggle. Sophie has always ate fast then threw up, so she has been fed multiple small meals for years, even before the diabetes diagnosis. Multiple vets have insisted she “has” to only be fed twice a day, and I simply said no. She is also in remission, as are many other cats who are fed this way, so your vet is incorrect about that. Remember, you are the client and ultimately have the final say in the treatment of your cat. And if you fear repercussions from not following their advice, also remember that they only know as much as you tell them ;) If you’d like some more fuel about feeding multiple small meals, both the AAHA and the ISFM guidelines recommend it

    https://www.aaha.org/aaha-guidelines/diabetes-management/dietary-management/

    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1098612X15571880
     
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  5. Mariella & Simba

    Mariella & Simba Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2018
     
  6. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2019
    I definitely understand that, diabetes is a bit of a shocking diagnosis so usually the default reaction is to assume your vet is an expert on it and follow their advice. But sadly most vets are not very educated about feline diabetes, although yours seems to be better than many since it seems like you might already be testing at home! Definitely read the stickies in the Health Links and Lantus forums, and eventually you will feel more confident :) And of course ask plenty of questions!
     
    Idjit's mom likes this.
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