Inverse curve after dropping dose and new vial

So we bought a new vial of ProZinc Monday afternoon because we were questioning the potency of the remaining bit of the first vial. We were running an inverse curve pretty consistently at 1.4 and 1.6u, so we dropped the dose down to 1u with the new vial. We have had an inverse curve since then as well. Last night I gave Oscar a few bits of raw chicken to see if he'd eat it, which he ate a few pieces. This morning I wake up to a 391 amps # at 5:30am (he was sleeping in the hallway when I got up and he moseyed downstairs to get food - no possibility of stress) - and that # is almost 200 points higher than we usually see in the morning. We are running a high curve again today.

What opinion does everyone have about the 1u? I wanted to try to stay with a dose for at least 5-7 days, but I really don't like seeing so many #s above 300 like this and inverse curves can't be good on his system.

Do any PZI or ProZinc users have experience with raw food? Could an upset kitty tummy or bacteria from it cause high numbers? I haven't seen any loose poo yet, but that's not to say I won't see it later. Maybe I should try pan searing the outside and try that tonight?

 

We finally dropped a little bit today at +6 instead of running an inverse curve, but we are elevated even more on blood ketones. Ketones could possibly be due to the quite high numbers the other day though.

 

Hi Kelly, sorry things are being so confusing for you, and ketones around too.... begone icky ketones!!! :evil:

As I understand it ketones are a sign of too little insulin rather than being caused by high #s (the distinction is over my head, but that is what I have read from those in the know), and as I understand it that trumps stuff like inverse curves, etc. - w/ketones around you simply don't have the choice to finesse the dose, you have to raise it, shoot through rebound if there is any, be hawk-like if needed to watch for accidental lower greens, and do whatever you can to get the insulin in there w/o causing hypo.

I am super-far from being a ketone expert though. If I were you I would PM Steve & Jock. He has said some useful things on Health about ketone kitties, and has jumped in here & helped a couple times in the past when I have PM'd him to see if he can lend some expertise. Ketones to me are scary b/c things can get critical so fast, and once they get that way many cats can't recover.

Hope the ketones are trending down by the time you read this. Sorry if any previous advice I gave about inverse curves meaning the dose is too high has made things worse. With Bix that has seemed to be the case, but I can't say there aren't other explanations for it, and if the ketones are going in the wrong direction.... cat(2)_steam

 

We are at 287 for the pmps # and ketones have gone down to 0.4mmol from 0.6mmol this morning. We lowered the dose to 1u because of the new vial and the vet recommended that we try dropping the dose, so no worries!

Just to be a devil's advocate - if the blood glucose is high, that means that the body isn't processing it. So if numbers are usually lower and then all of a sudden we see higher numbers without stress or high carb food, the I would think that the body wasn't processing glucose as well that day, which might lead to the body attacking the fat stores instead.

With the ketones going back down a bit, I might stick it out another day or so at this dose since we have finally gotten rid of the inverse curve so it seems. Tonight will be the deciding factor (if we actually curve or not).

 

Just a thought Kelly, you might look at Molly's spread sheet. I know they fought the keytone issue hard. And you might see something in there that will resonate with you. They messed around with lower doses [and the inevitable keytones] then eventually they made their way up to 5u and they got a breakthrough.

Hopefully you are doing the sub-q liquids?

You could PM Molly too to see if she has any guidance/tips for you.

 

No sub-q fluids. I have no knowledge or equipment to do this :YMSIGH: I am just feeding feeding feeding and adding lots of water to the food. He dropped down a bit already today, so I will check again tomorrow morning and hopefully we will have good news! I'll try to find Molly's spreadsheet to take a look - thanks Gator!

 

Well heck Kelly, get that LRS going. :smile: Get over to your vet tech for a lesson. I've found it to be really easy and very beneficial. I've read with keytones that it helps them from becoming the raging sort. I have all sorts of tips on procuring the needles, admin sets and LRS. Just let me know.

I strongly believe that every cat owner should have this in their tool-set. Unless the kitty has heart issues then there's not much bad that can be done with them and the upside is big. High reward, low risk.

I just responded in this Health thread about some of my tips:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13666

Here's some more links:
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/su ... ompare.htm
http://www.felinecrf.com/managh.htm
http://www.felinecrf.com/managb.htm

 

pm sent to you Gator - just saw the links you posted .... thanks!

 

Yea, check out the links I sent. The only problem is you HAVE to have a prescription for the LRS itself. I found a place that you can get the admin sets and the needles from without an Rx.

In the link to the health topic I provided direct links to the admin sets and the Terumo 21g x 1" needles I like. You should get at least 6 admin sets and maybe 12. They should be discarded after a month.

If you can find the LRS locally that is best because it is a fortune to ship. Your vet seems like he does not mark up equipment too much so that might be another route. The only important hing are the Terumo brand needles as they are special. I get a case of 12 1000ml bags of LRS for under $30 from Costco [no membership necessary]. I also use the AAA/Caremark discount card http://www2.caremark.com/aaa/ which works at just about all chain pharmacies. I think the prescription for the LRS reads 12,000ml for quantity. The supplies link I sent above has tips about sourcing locally and local sources.

LRS is so low risk and high reward that I bet there is a chance with persistence you could get you vet to do it for you. I give 6+Kg H 125ml per day when he needs it.

Let me know if you have any more questions.