Is there anyone who is using Humulin N??

Hi there. Just checking this forum to see if there is anyone using Humulin N even though it is not the popular choice? Anyone looking at my previous posts will see that Scrump is fairly new to this (about 2 weeks today) and I have gotten the hang of testing, I've shot a curve and plan to do a nadir cluster tomorrow or on the weekend. I have found a vet willing to work with me but he was overjoyed and I think overwhelmed to find someone actually hometesting and who thought to bring their glucometer to the office to compare with his reading (20 point difference; mine is my glucometer which is compared to my labwork every 3 months so I tend to believe my 20 point lower level). We discussed changing to Lantus and he is willing when I want but encouraged me to give this a try since Scrump seemed to be responding. Also is willing to go to 3x per day dosing if needed. He does attend continuing ed and discussed a recent seminar he went to by an animal endocrinologist. All in all a great visit with an $8.50 bill for about 20 minutes of discussion and a blood sugar draw! Scrump was calm and laying in the arms of the assistant like "la tee dah, what's the fuss". However, I remain a little skeptical just because of past experiences.

With all that being said, I have tried to find someone that has been using N successfully in the forum and thought it would be easier to just ask. I mostly would just like to find someone who I can compare notes with since most everyone uses something different than N.

Thanks!!

 

Hi Missy,

The only one I know who has used it recently is Lulu's2Moms. They were on about a month ago and did get Lulu off insulin. You could send them a private message. They are people who used it years ago and are sometimes still around. One is Phoebe_Tiggy_NortonGA; Phoebe has been helping photosquirrel14 within the last 2 weeks or so. Photosquirrel is on Humulin and trying to shoot 3 times a day. You can get lots of info from reading her post.
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=31811

Several people will be willing to try to help. I will certainly be willing to try. But, as you have heard, it is a harsh insulin and generally hits hard and fast. That makes it much harder to regulate with.

It does sound like your vet is open to working with you, which is a huge bonus.

 

thanks for the help Sue!

 

Hello.

It's great to hear you have a proactive vet as a partner in this. It makes it all a lot easier.

A couple of things jump out at me looking at your SS

1st- I am wondering if the huge drop from the 400s to the 100s could be causing your Scrumpy to throw up and to be starving and showing you some of that weird behaviour noted in your chart? The body often will perceive a drop like this a hypo territory.

2nd - those 2 units are giving you guys a huge peak and valley and honestly, that is pretty classic N behaviour and creates a roller coaster for your kitty's body that feels really crappy.

I would perhaps consider dropping the dose back to 1.5, test for ketones, and shoot every 10 hours ( or as needed ) or so on a rising BG above about 300, while researching the longer lasting insulins, lantus and Levemir.

I would also offer a good snack anout 1.5 hours after shot to help slow down the action and give a later nadir.

Some kitties ( very few that I have seen in my 5 years here ) will respond to N with a shallower curve and allow for real time under the renal threshold of about 220, but this curve of yours is more typical, and more insulin will not make it better, and less insulin on a 12/12 schedule will only see a huge climb at the end when the insulin runs out.

Have you had a chance to read the N primer stickied above these posts?
Some great tips there as well.
It would help to get some early cycle tests to see how hard and when the insulin is kicking in to pinpoint a good place to give that low carb snack.
Perhaps a +1.5, and +2.5 test?

Hang in there...there is a reason this forum is so quiet and it is because history has shown all of us, that Caninsulin/vetsulin and N, are just a tough insulin to get a shallow curve, at reasonable levels with.

I used caninsulin, have helped many here over the years with all these isulins and really...if you can get vet on board with a switch...can't encourage you loudly enough to try it.
You can pop in to the lantus and lev forums and ask questions and look at their spread sheets as well while doing the research. There are great stickies full of info in those places as well.

Please keep us posted.

Kimmee

 

Hi Kimmee. Not sure about the vomiting. Vet recommended I not do raw meat right now and since I didn't give her anymore, she hasn't thrown up. We did our nadir cluster today and her lowest point was at +3.75 with a finding of 71. So now that we know when and how much, we are talking about doing 3x per day dosing along with giving the snack.

When do you think the snack would be best given?

I am looking at the Lantus forum for info and want to take some time to look at spreadsheets to see what other kitties are experiencing with it like you suggested.

I really appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. Thankfully this is getting less anxiety producing as we go :RAHCAT

 

I didn't use N, I used L but it was years ago.

That aside, I've always been one to caution people about TID dosing on N when there are so many better options. Especially with a cat experiencing peaks and valleys like yours. I see no reason why you would want your cat on that kind of rollercoaster three times a day. Yes, there is a chance that the overlap would work in your cat's favour but there is lots of work involved in this trial and error.

 

Hi again

That almost 500-71 in less than 4 hours is the best reason to really really strongly urge you to move to a longer lasting insulin.
That kind of fast drop, is never going to be a shallow curve. Dosing as needed, as opposed to TID as I mentioned ealrier, may help in the next couple of days, but 2 units is making your cat feel terrible.

Do you notice your cat seems more like himself when coming off the insulin cycle around +9 or +10 hours after shot?
Do you notice weird behaviour in those first 4 hours?
Is he hungry a lot, or lethargic?

All that can be gone and your cat can truly thrive with diabetes, but honestly, this insulin is not doing your kitty any favours.

I would give a snack about an hour after shot in the meantime and lower the dose while testing for ketones regularly.
I am worried he is really going to crash on you one day when his liver no longer has the reserves to battle the huge and fast drops. Each time that happens, its body is worrying it is going into hypogycemia and dumping Glucagen to counter it and you getting this huge swings.

Please consider dropping back to 1.5 and offering that snack while moving to a new insulin.

 

First, thanks for your input. In response to the above, she pretty much acts like she did since we've had her (going on 6+ years) except for a couple of episodes not necessarily related to any particular time in the cycle. Those we figured out seemed to be more related to some cats outside who have been hanging around the front door. She had vomiting which stopped after stopping the raw meat snacks. She isn't lethargic. Has always been and remains feisty. Hunger is increased since right before diagnosis but better now that she's on insulin. The new additions to her old routine are just sort of that--new additions to the same old thing. She gets her BG checked, eats, gets her shot, sleeps til snack time about 1.5 hrs later, then plays a little, sleeps, comes to get loved up every now and then, lords over the household and then gets the evening check/shot/food/snack. Then it's bedtime--in other words, time to find something crinkly and noisy to play with to keep the humans awake

I have to update her SS and then fax to the vet with request for script for Lantus. I hope to do that today but with work (I work from home and don't have a fax. We have to go to the bank to fax anything), I'm not sure I'll get to the bank before they close. Probably will be tomorrow when I get to fax it.

Thanks again for all the help and insight!

 

I am using Humulin N and can't see that it does much. I'm new at this. Kitty has been on it for about 2 weeks. I expressed concern to my vet about all
the bad info on Humulin N but she was not concerned and stated she had excellent results with it. I give one unit a day.

 

Luper,

I hope you will do some reading on this site. Humulin is a very difficult insulin to regulate with because it hits hard and fast, rarely lasting even 8 hours. And giving it once a day compounds the issue. Your kitty may only feel good with a decent blood glucose level for a few hours a day. The rest of the day and night the bg levels will be high. Insulin in cats should be given twice daily; they metabolize it much faster than human diabetics.

If you would like some help, please post on the Health forum. This forum gets very little traffic as so few people here use Humulin or Vetsulin.

 

I hate to sound harsh here but that is a very inappropriate way to be using N since it barely lasts 8 hours in most cats.

I urge you to consider talking to your vet again regarding the use of a more appropriate insulin such as Lantus or consider seeking out another vet who has more experience managing this disease.

 

See my vet says the same thing. Maybe its time to see another vet, but I live in a small town where they all know each other :/

**edit** I should note that I am supposed to be giving 3 units 2x a day, but I am giving her 2 units 2x a day..the home-testing is not at all smooth atm.

 

I have already posted over under the main board but wanted anyone just looking here to know too that Scrumptious was diagnosed yesterday with liver cancer and we had her put to sleep last night. She was ill only since Sunday, so it was quick and a bit surprising. My husband and I are both still in shock and today is a day of gathering all her things so it's full of memories and sadness. In other words, we are a big, collective mess!

thank you to all who took the time to respond and give us words of wisdom and support! It will be forever remembered and appreciated! Blessings to all.

 

I am so sorry to read this.

Having a clear diagnosis makes the decision a little easier, but certainly not the letting go. You made a brave choice letting her go and not letting suffer.

Take good care of yourself.
Kimmee

 

I'm very sorry to hear this. It may be months after but it stays with you. You're in my thoughts.