It's four in the morning . . .

Hello, she typed, hoping that there is still someone out there in the universe to read this . . .

Tried to post this in the intros, but kept getting a database-error-try-again-later.

I have two cats. Cat#1 is a hail-fellow-well-met bundle of confidence brimming with good health, came into our yard as a young cat, vet-checked us thoroughly before deigning to offer us her services as a cat. She's about seven years old now.
Cat#2 is a cat that I found at a shelter (more of a hoarding situation than a shelter, but yeah) as a companion to Cat#1 when the kids grew up and moved out, taking the dogs with them. I went in looking for a playful outgoing young cat, came out instead with the one I had to get out of there. It was a long haul, but she turned into a happy little girl, if somewhat high-strung and anxious. She was diagnosed with diabetes this spring, shortly before I was to leave on a trip for the summer. After consultation with vet and planned house-sitter, I went on with trip as planned. Back for a week now, cat has seemed happy and healthy, and the shots have been going very well, she's been eating, happy, active, but last few days she's gotten lethargic and lost appetite.
Took her in to vet yesterday, who said that she was hypoglycemic, and did an `assist feed', after which her numbers went up over 400. He said he thought she was starting to go into remission, and needed less insulin. Brought her home last night, and she went straight to her `safe space' and has pretty much stayed there in a kitty lump since. Won't drink or eat. Didn't give her her evening injection because she didn't eat.

That is my intro. Heading over to the it's-four-in-the-morning-and-my-cat-won't-eat forum now. Thank you and hello. [This is what I tried to post earlier. Hoping for better luck in this forum.]

I have no feeding syringe. Am also concerned about getting water into her. Would it be advisable to give her a small amount of insulin anyway just to get her stimulated enough to eat and drink?

I tried blood testing (after watching vids) and was a complete fail at that.

 

The most important thing to do is always, at the very least, test the sugar before giving each insulin shot. And since she hypo'd, she's going to be more sensitive to insulin for a bit. I wouldn't give insulin without testing her sugar. How many units was she getting and what insulin do you use?

It's also advisable to set up your signature and spreadsheet so that people can offer better advice based on your specifics. I'm sure the more experienced people will chime in in a few.

 

Testing has a learning curve. I had many many failed tests that first week. It gets easier as the capillaries start to grow. What size lancets? If they are not 26 or 28 gauge then get that size.

What insulin are you using? What dose? What are you feeding? What meter are you using?

Did the dr test for ketones? You said she was hypo yesterday... How low did she go?

 

Hi. It would be helpful if you could add a signature and provide info like the date of diagnosis and the type of insulin you are giving her. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/ The type of insulin is very important for people to be able to answer your questions.

Testing is so important. It can be a mess the first few times, but it gets easier quicker than you think. Testing allows you to keep your cat safe. Without it, you really do not know if it is safe to give insulin nor can you really know what impact the insulin dose is having. Testing and getting your cat on a high-protein, low-carb wet food diet are the two most important things you can do to help your baby.

 

Hi, and thank you, Rardito, Janet, and Mama for the replies!
She is on ProZinc insulin. When I left for the summer, she was on a half-unit. When I returned, she was up to 4.5, 2x daily.
She was put on Hill's dry and wet food, and that's what I've been feeding her. Cat#1 really likes the Hills. Cat#2 would prefer salmon, but then, wouldn't we all?

The vet had my cat-carer giving her blood tests three times a day on Saturdays, and reporting in the results, and advising on amounts of insulin from there.

She had a BS reading of 48 yesterday morning at the vet's. After feeding, it went up to 400. Vet said he thought that the hypoglycemia was indicative of her starting to go into remission, but that we weren't there yet, evidenced by the rise in BS.

Diagnosis was this spring, May 26. Her weight had dropped to about 7-1/5 pounds, and she would sometimes upchuck her feedings. Since I returned, almost two weeks ago, she has seemed much better, holding down her food, cheerful and affectionate, and just a happy little cat. Weight is up to 8.8 pounds. Just the last few days that she's gone off.

ETA: I have an AlphaTrack2 monitor with puncture thingys with the number 10 on the package. Oh--never mind. I just counted them.
Was the `bumbling amateur' username already taken when I signed up? Should have checked.

Also, vet suggested going down to 2.5 units of insulin, with retesting in a few weeks to see if further reduction is warranted. He seemed optimistic that we could get her in remission.
He will be calling in the morning. Will try to get a bit more sleep here, because I have to work today, but very appreciative of your replies, and will check in here when I awaken.

When I first started injections with her back in May, it was traumatic for both of us. Now it's no big deal at all. And when she doesn't feel good, the spot she goes to is the same spot I sit on the couch to give her the shots, so I'm guessing she associates that place with feeling better. She hops up in my lap to get her shot after the feed, which leaves me hopeful that the shots make her feel better.

Will give another go at the testing; hopefully that too will become a `no-big-deal' thing. Thank you for that advice and encouragement.

 

Snow, I've been up for two days straight nursing my own back to health after a keto scare. I've been force feeding him food blended to the consistency of water. If you don't have all the supplies, that's the first thing I would suggest. (meter, test strips(100), ketone strips, Lance, lancets, wipes, cooking syringe) Monitor and information is key. Brush up on your application as far as the insulin. Make sure everything is okay on your end so that's not a variable. Make sure you're administering correctly. I'm sorry you're struggling as I most certainly know your pain. I will tell you that you've found THE BEST resource you could ever have for your loved one. The support has been amazing here, and one of the seniors undoubtedly will have their eyes on you (if not already.) My thoughts would be subcu for the fluids, or give it orally.

 

Dry food is too high in carbs for diabetics. You'll want to switch to a low carb all wet diet, for which there is a link to the food chart in one of the sticky posts. I'm not sure if the hills wet is on the chart. But it will be even more important to test before each shot as her numbers will be lower due to the appropriate diet.

I'm guessing she was getting too much insulin... .5 to 4.5 is a huge increase. She was probably bouncing and that's why the numbers were so high. I'll let someone who uses prozinc touch on that though.

 

I would not switch the food to a lower carb food until you are testing. The switch to lower carb food can lower her BGs even more.

 

Though dry food is high in carbs, please don’t eliminate it until you can successfully test, because stopping dry food can result in a pretty big blood glucose decline.

It’s hard to believe us strangers on the internet, but I would take her (cat’s name?) back to 1 unit again. The 400 was probably her glucose “bouncing” from going too low. Bouncing happens when the BG goes too low, the liver tries to compensate. Once you are testing regularly before meals as well as some curves, you will be able to better tell if she needs an increase in insulin.

Wikipedia: “When the blood glucose level falls below normal, the body responds by releasing the endocrine hormone glucagon as well as the stress hormones epinephrine, cortisol and growth hormone. Glucagon facilitates release of glucose from the liver that raises the blood glucose immediately; the stress hormones cause insulin resistance for several hours, sustaining the elevated blood sugar.”

 

Hi and thank you,

She is Cordelia (after the orphan Anne of Green Gables). And her pal is Serendipity, because it took us months to guess her name, and when I finally tried that one, she looked mortally offended and glared at me. Did the same when my daughter said the name to her, so we both knew that was it. Delia and Dips, for short.

At this point I would be happy if she ate anything! She has diarrhea now, too. Drank a few laps of water, when encouraged to do so. That was encouraging to me, to see her at least respond to my urging.

ETA: Okay, I did it. One good thing about her being so lethargic is it was easier to test--she just didn't care. "You want to poke a hole in my ear? Oh, yeah, fine, whatever . . ."

Reading was 465.

Rewind to first clue that something was wrong. I just didn't know it was a clue then. I got home from work (I think this was Tuesday evening), opened the door, and smelled a heavy litterboxy smell, which seemed odd as I knew they were freshly cleaned with new litter. She wasn't at the door to meet me, but acted a bit out of it when I found her, nothing extreme, just kind of tired.

Okay, just got a call back from the vet, taking her in for them to manage her today, then off to work I go.
Said tongue in cheek: o good, cuz I had no idea what I should do with all this money and now I know.

 

Maybe she'll eat tuna water?

 

Great names! I hope the vet can get some food in her.

Edited to add: Not eating and high numbers can mean ketones. I hope that is not Delia’s problem. The vet is the right place for her now. You really didn’t need that money for anything else, like food or rent did you?

 

I could stand to lose a few pounds anyway. . .

She's back at the vet. She will get tested for a UTI, ketones, hepatic function, and dribs and drabs, and hopefully get some food and water into her.

On a bright note, today instead of acting terrified to be at the vets and afraid of him as a stranger, she just looked around with apparent curiosity. This being-sick stuff has at least had the upside of forcing her to interact with someone besides me, and I'm glad about that. She's a sweet girl (in more ways than one now) and it's good for her to expand her little world.

Thank you, Debby. They're great cats. I've been told they rule the roost--what a strange comment. As if things should be other?

 

How is Delia doing?

 

She is not doing so very well.

BS last night when I got her home from vet was 465. She did not eat, but I gave her insulin anyway as she was over 300, per instructions.

This morning she continued lethargic, although she had moved upstairs on her own steam and was sleeping in one of her favorite places. She tested at 542, and was still not interested in food. I gave her a shot, and called the vet.

Further complicating matters, she's been overseen by three vets--Dr K, her regular one that diagnosed her; Dr F, the one that my cat-carer worked with this summer, and Dr N, a different one I saw yesterday because her regular guy was in surgery. That one said if she's still not eating today we should consider a different cause, and to bring her in today if she still wasn't eating.

Spoke to Dr. K this morning, who was ambivalent about how to go ahead. Especially with a 3-day weekend coming up, I didn't want her alone in the vet's office, so we talked about what I could do at home. We jointly decided to bring her in to get her hydrated and medicated and then I would take her home. When I brought her in this time, she seemed so lethargic that it seemed like time to not put her through these trips anymore.

I arrived, and was asked, "Do you want us to do this here, or do you want to do it at home?" Ummm . . . this was an option? So I picked up fluids and anti-diarrhea meds, and a syringe to assist-feed her, and will be caring for her at home.

In the conversation earlier with the vet he said, "At some point we need to be asking about her quality of life."

She is pooping blood-tinged snot.

I thought hard about asking for medication to end her discomfort if this gets worse, but I did not.

Not having a great day here.

 

. So sorry to hear she isn't doing well. Did they test for pancreatitis

 

Doctor yesterday said they did blood work and all of it looked really good. I asked for copies of all her test results, and have them here.

Which test is that?

 

Someone on the forum told me that the pancreas test isn't included in normal bloodwork and that they have to send it out.

Edited to add: fBLI test is what it's called

 

That test is not on the list.

Also, she is hiding. Or thinks she is. She is sitting in a box behind a chair, where no one can see her. I didn't find her until my second trip through the house looking for her. Up until now she's been hanging out in her favorite spots--on the sofa, on her pillow in the window, in her cat-bed by the woodstove, and on my bed--all pretty accessible places.

I got some fluids in her earlier before she decided that was not fun, and walked away.

 

How about ketones? Did they test for that? And how are you doing with the syringe feeding?

 

I was told to wait until about now to give her the anti diarrheal meds, so am going to go for that now, with feeding.

Tested negative for ketones.

Didn't make it all the way to the litterbox this time. She tried, bless her heart. Looks like more blood than before.

 

I’m so sorry Delia is so sick.

It’s very good that there aren’t ketones. It’s bad they don’t know what’s causing the diarrhea. I hope the meds help. Things like diarrhea, dehydration, as well as infection, can all raise blood glucose. So treating the diarrhea could help with the high glucose numbers. At least I hope it helps.

Hang in there.

 

Thank you, Debby.

Okay, so checking in.

Held her, which seemed to comfort her. Until my hands turned into the ones that were trying to prick her ear repeatedly (could not get sufficient blood for a test), force-fed her, gave her the anti-d med, which she hated, and a shot of insulin. I thought about giving her more fluids, but can't see putting her through more stress at this point. She just wanted to get away from me, and I don't blame her.

Okay, this is a tough question to have to ask, but I need to know.

If this gets worse and I have to put her out of her pain tonight, is there a way I can do it without hurting her?

 

No. You would have to call your vet.

I know you can’t stand to see her like this. I know you are assuming the worst. But her blood work was good. Yes she’s sick, with bloody diarrhea. But is she ready to go? Is she in pain, or just miserable? Give the meds and fluids time to work. And hold her and love her.

 

Had a snuggle with her, which may have comforted me more than her, but she rested on me in front of the fire for 30-40 minutes before going back to her hiding spot. I put some litter on a shallow baking dish next to her spot, so she didn't have to travel as far next time. She had made another trip to the litter box before I held her, but this time wasn't even a partial miss.

She's soo sick, and the bloody diarrhea just doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

I'm afraid there might be something else going on that isn't related to the diabetes, but that we're missing it because of the rotating vets situation and the fact that it's a weekend and they're shut for the night. I am grateful to be able to discuss her here with you.

Also, when I gave her the food earlier, I could here her stomach rumbling a bit, so at least things are moving, and I got some of it inside of her.

 

She spent the evening in her box behind the chair, but began to be more present in her body, raising her head, semi-sitting up. I picked her up and felt more muscle tone--she was so limp before. Reclined in front of the fire, held her and stroked her for an hour or so, and she seemed responsive--pushed her head against my hand at one point, and did that delicately-snagging-me-with-a-single-claw thing that I take to mean `just stay here'. Later she started to get up as if to get off of me, so I put her in the soft cat bed near the wood stove, and she stayed there. I put some water next to her, splashed it so she could hear it was there, and then went to fetch the shallow improvised litter tray to place near her. When I came back with it, she was drinking water from the bowl--and not just a lap or two--she went after it like she was thirsty.
I came upstairs, put on pajamas, brushed teeth, typed the above, and then decided to go down and offer her food. She was back in her hidey-box, but sniffed the food rather than just turning away as if nauseated as before, then got up and made her way across the room to another water bowl. She drank, stood there as if she were asleep, drank again, stood there for awhile, drank again, then made her way back past the hidey-box to the warm soft bed by the stove.
If you'd asked me earlier I would have told you she'd be gone by morning, and as I held her and stroked her I told her it was okay if that was what she needed to do, and told her what a great cat she is. Now I am cautiously optimistic.

The shelter she came from was over-crowded and lacking in resources necessary to care for all the cats they had. Bright lights, music playing all the time, little hissy-fits between the cats. She was curled up in a catatonic ball, so stiff she looked like one could shoot hoops with her and she wouldn't move a muscle. One of the people there told me she'd been there eight months and no one had even taken her home on a trial basis. While we were standing next to her, she opened up one green eye, looked at that woman, looked at me, and I felt a tiny little frisson of `good--you're talking about me' before the eye snapped shut again. But it was enough for me to see that she was still in there, and I was gone, hook, line, and sinker. I took her home and turned her loose in a spare bedroom. It took about three weeks before she let me touch her, weeks more before she'd come to me voluntarily. She walked around with a sorrowful look on her face, as if she knew life was a vale of tears. One day I offered her salmon, and watched a look of puzzlement and light come on in her face, as if her world-view was in a head-on collision with a world in which salmon. But, but, but sorrow! But salmon! pain! loss! Salmon!! She came down with all four paws on the side of salmon. A few days later I was sitting near her food dish, and she climbed up in my lap, then got an embarrassed look on her face as if to say, "That was an accident, didn't mean it," and slinked off. She came back about ten minutes later, got back up, and stayed there for a long, long time, getting petted, praised, and purring happily. That was almost three years ago, and she's just getting to the point where she trusts other people besides me. Only when she is forced to do so by medical or caregiver necessity, but she is slowly blooming. She'd needed extensive dental work after she got out of the shelter--eight months (or longer) that her teeth were rotting out, her gums infected. She moves a bit clumsily at times, as if she had an injury or injuries from which she had not fully recovered. As my daughter said, there's been some drama in her life.

In other words, she'd been through a lot. One wants all cats to be happy, but some just tug at the heartstrings.

 

It honestly sounds like pancratitis to me. Pancratitis is painful and causes lots of pain, they stop eating. The treatment is cerenia for nausea , fluids, and bupe for pain.

Can you get her to a vet today to test for that? Pain killers would really help.

 

Also don't let her go without eating. Get her to eat anything even if it's high carb. Try gravy food, dry food, baby food with no onions or garlic, tuna, cold cuts, chicken, FortiFlora on top ... If she won't eat syringe in watered down pate. All the vet for recovery food... It's high calorie.

 

Thank you. If they're open today, I will ask about that. She's still with us, sitting up with her head in an alert position rather than laying limply out. I'll try getting her to eat again.

I asked yesterday for painkillers and the vet tech I spoke with said just getting fluids and the anti-d meds would help her. Grrrrr. Does that cause the bloody diarrhea?

 

Good to see JanetNJ here with advice! I know nothing about pancreatitis.

I’m also happy to hear that Delia is feeling better this morning. Being alert, drinking water and at least sniffing her food are all positive signs, though you are going to have to make sure she actually eats something, even if you have to keep syringe feeding. And you didn’t mention any more bloody diarrhea. Has that stopped?

 

Bless you for giving that baby a life beyond the misery of a scary shelter! I have a story eerily similar. Several years ago, the local "humane society" sent a bunch of the cats they considered unadoptable to an old horse stable in the woods. These included elderly, sick, declawed, and just plain frightened. A woman who feeds ferals locally tried to take care of them, but it became a mess.

One of the cats was a gorgeous, declawed, long- haired tabby girl. She stayed curled up in a little kitty condo cube in a horse stall all the time. A few of us in the area tried to help with the situation, but my heart broke every time I saw Isabella. Finally I scooped her up and brought her home. It took a little while, but she blossomed into one of the sweetest, most beautiful cats I've ever seen. Way too soon, we learned she had cancer. Despite our best efforts, we lost her. I am so grateful that she knew love and a home before she passed.

You are fantastic!

 

I feel anything but fantastic right now, but thank you for your kind words. They really don't ask that much of us--it's a pity that we seem to create so much suffering for them. I think it's the most sensitive of them that suffer the most in such settings.
I picked her up this morning, and she purred loudly and cuddled happily. Then I started doing the things to her that she hates--the ear pricks (did not get enough blood for a reading), forcing a fractionated pill down her throat, to which she responded by a gaggy amount of froth and saliva coming out, and trying to syringe feed her, cut to more salvia and froth. At that point I gave up.
Tried to cuddle her some more later, no purrs this time. I think she's responding more to the affection than the meds and treatments.

 

Ok the lancet that you’re using... what size is it? If it’s not 26-28 then your lancet is too thin.

The pill. It’s probably bitter. Try putting it in an empty gel cap (size 4 or 5) so she can’t taste it.

 

I looked on the package, can't find a lancet size. I can't get anything into her mouth at this point, and am reluctant to stress her further by fighting her. I'm thinking that the stress might be causing her blood pressure to drop, because I was able to get readings when she was calmer.
The pill is broken into an 8th for a dose size for her, and at that is about the size of half of an ant. Very little.

 

If it was a lancet that came with a human meter than its probably 30-33 gauge. If you have a Walmart nearby you can ask for relion 26 gauge. A box of 100 is about $3


Can you crush the pill and mix it with water or tuna water and squirt into her cheek?

If nothing else though definitly get as much food as you can into her.

 

That's a good sign that Cordelia's purring and cuddling for you and is more responsive. Don't give up, she sounds like a strong girl. Hope you can get her to eat something more today.

 

Okay, I think we're on the upswing.

I called the clinic this morning, asked to speak to a vet, and was told there were three there, and the first available one would call me. One of the three was the one who worked with the cat-carer this summer, and I requested that he be the one that called.

He did, and I was vastly relieved by the conversation. He said all of the symptoms she was exhibiting had an explanation. The frothing and thick saliva was something that some cats do when stressed, and he said torties and torbies tended to be more highly sensitive to their environments, and thus they were the ones that tended to get diabetic. I'm sure there are many people here who would take exception, but that was nice for me because it told me he remembered her and saw her as an individual with a personality and characteristics. He said the bloody diarrhea could be her reacting to the change of food (clinic gave me AD rather than MD just to get some calories in), and the limpness last night could be her `crashing' on the insulin/blood sugar curve. He said the same thing that the other vet said, that he thought this was actually her starting to flip. He said he'd been doing it for 17 years, and he sounded really passionate about giving them every chance to get back off the insulin, and that not one of the cats that he'd gotten to flip did it by coming to the clinic for testing and meds--it was too stressful for them. He also said my cat-carer did a "wonderful job" with her this summer, and I will pass the compliment along.

I tested her twice today, mid-day and this evening: 283/254. Gave her some more sub-q fluids, got the anti-diarrhea medicine in her, and a few syringes of pate-sludge.

Found a fabric cat carrier on the shelf where I threw it a few years ago after buying and trying it and giving up on it. It was helpful in the feeding, and she didn't fight it at all.

Got a little food-storage container into which I put insulin/needles/tester/strips/meds/prescription food/syringes, so that I'm no longer putting her down and going off and searching for something else and repeating that cycle.

I don't think she was thrilled, but she wasn't in a panic to get away at the end, and I cuddled her a bit more, told her what a very good cat she was, and that we were all done with this nonsense for the night.

Woo-hoo!!!

 

Glad to hear she's doing well. That's interesting to hear about the limpness being related to the blood sugar. I'd wondered about that because my cat has been that way since starting insulin on most days. She's responsive, but lays there and sleeps so soundly and is limp when I pick her up. I actually pick her up and take her to the food bowl so she'll eat. She will stand and eat then go back to lie down.

 

That's starting to be an indicator for me now. I picked her up this morning, and felt some laxness, not full-blown limpness.

Tried something different with the assist feeding. Got a short length of flexible tubing that fortunately fit snugly on the tip of the feeding syringe. Took the MD food, put it in a blender with warm water and whirred it up to a sludge, and then used these to try to feed her. I *think* I got some of it in her today. Figured the tubing would be a bit kinder in terms of getting stuff into her mouth, a little softer and I could get it further back. She hates this so much. After the evil-tasting anti-d med, she bit my thumb--not hard enough to puncture, just a reflexive kind of self-defense measure. I told her it wasn't okay, but I understood.

Her numbers were 60 before the feeding, and even after the stress of the feeding, only 80 after. I made the judgement call to reduce her insulin down to a unit instead of the 2.5 she's supposed to get--I was afraid that the full dose would crash her.

I am so confused and wracked with the am-I-killing-my-cat? guilts.

 

How long ago did you give her the shot? It was a good call to not give her 2.5 units, but 60 is a low number. A non-diabetic number. Please check her bg often this morning to make sure she doesn’t go hypo. And have your hypo kit ready just in case!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

 

At 80 I would have skipped the shot. Please test often today

 

Thank you for the responses, and for affirming my instinct to cut back on the amount of insulin. I didn't have the confidence to skip the shot, though I considered it.

What is a hypo kit?

Just retested. 83.

When I picked her up this time, she felt marginally more `present', and was a tiny bit feisty about the ear pricking this time, which I took to be a good sign.

 

Read these links:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

 

Good. Continue to test.

 

Could you set up the spreadsheet with your readings? It would help us help you

 

I will try to do that. Is there a template somewhere that I can use to get started? Sorry to have to ask--I looked around and tried to find this, but I'm just not taking in info the way I wish I was.
I read as much as I could of the links before they became overwhelming. I apologize that it's taking me so long to get this--I'm feeling stressed to the max, and trying to deal with my winter firewood delivery at the same time, and that's limiting how well I'm absorbing information.
Really appreciate the `frugal feline' page--when I'm ready to take in that information, I will be mining it for tips.

I took her BG again, about 4-1/2 hours after the last one, and it's 73. She's pretty lethargic again, but not limp.

I found that the last puncture wound in her ear had scabbed over and was able to flick the crust of blood off and get enough out for a new reading. Sometimes it's the little things in life . . .

Okay that was about an hour ago I wrote this, and I just rechecked and found it at 87.

 

Snow..here's the link for the spreadsheet, instructions and understanding the spreadsheet. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/suggestions-tech-support-testing-area.6/
If you have trouble there are people who can help.

I know you are feeling overwhelmed with information, it is a lot at first. But, you are doing everything you can, so take a breath, fix a cup of tea or cocoa, put your feet up for a few minutes. Kitty isn't scary low, and it looks like she's coming up a bit. Do you have Karo syrup on hand, and maybe a can or two of a high carb food with gravy? Karo is good to give when the BG is too low, but it doesn't last, a teaspoon of HC food, and or squeezed out gravy works well. Lasts longer.

 

So she's back in her box, looking like she's not having much fun. Found a large poo-puddle next to the litterbox, quite liquid but a few granulated solids that I recognize from the MD food, still reddish, but maybe not quite so much so as on Saturday. So it looks like some of the food is getting into her, but it's not doing her much good.

My biggest concerns about her, highest to lowest:

• blood in the stools
• diarrhea
• not eating
• listlessness
• giving her meds
• testing
• diabetes

Thank you, will check out the spreadsheet instructions.

 

You will be clearer tomorrow after some rest. Do print out the hypo instructions. I hadn't done that yet when Idjit had a mild hypo, and I wish I had had them. I have them handy now to use to help if needed here. The "tool box" is easy, find a little box or container, and put the items in there, ready to go if needed. I didn't have that either, but I did have the Karo and some high carb food. It worked out ok with the help of members here, but it was nerve wracking at the time. If you have the instructions and the tool box, even if you can't get online and ask for help, you will know what to do.

 

I am a bit of a poke out of town, so planned on picking up the supplies tomorrow when I go in for work. Ditto printing all this out---will have access to a printer then.

I'm limited in supplies, varieties of cat food, etc., right now.

 

Great for part one,
As far as the food for the tool box, the Friskies with gravy like the Fillets or Cuts (used to be Idjit's favorites) is good, you can give a tsp at a time, to raise BG without filling kitty completely up and also if needed add the corn syrup. Or press out a little gravy with the back of a spoon. I kept med carb and high carb (one can each) of the Friskies in the box.

 

Is there advice/printout/vid somewhere about assist feeding? Cordelia is eating nothing. All she's had since Thursday or Friday is assist-feeding.

 

Try this thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-help-syringe-feeding.196972/#post-2205010
Post #7 from Jill and Alex who is a moderator here and very experienced.

 

So this is good.

I think the assist feeds/medication sessions are grueling for the cat--I find them so, and I know I've got the easier role in it. She resists the process, and it's hard on her having to cope with that on top of not feeling well. At the end of it she's exhausted, and goes to one of her `spots' and melts, and it looks pretty much like she's in pain and ready to check out. Last night felt like a nadir, as she'd had the near-miss at the litterbox, and the feeding seemed like such an ordeal for her, and I wondered how much longer I could put her through these feedings.

Awakened in the night to use the bathroom, decided to check on her. Went downstairs, looked around, didn't see her anywhere, which I took to mean she'd found an even more isolated spot to hide, which I took to mean the end was imminent. Came back upstairs, looked around, didn't see her. My search up 'til that point had been without turning on the lights, as I have enough light to move around. Decided I needed to find her, so flipped the lamp on, and there she was, sitting on the floor of my bedroom.

The only thing that's obvious to me that would bring her upstairs is the desire for companionship. I went to her and rested beside her for awhile, and she purred while I snuggled her. Then I picked her up and brought her into my bed, and she snuggled with the other cat and myself, then left so quietly I didn't hear or feel her leave. Checked on her, and she's downstairs in her hidey-box, but in an `alert repose' position, and there's no evidence of diarrhea in (or next to) the litter boxes. That's the most she's moved around in days, and I'm guessing (possibly egocentrically) that she came up looking for us, which I took to mean that she doesn't feel as crummy as she did before. Serendipity is who knows where, and that means I have the whole bed to myself! and I intend to get more use of it before my alarm goes off.

According to Google, yep, others have applied Maslow's theory of hierarchy of needs to cats, with the expected pun on the name (a vet at http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/meowslow-s-hierarchy-needs explains it by saying, `cats are people, too, so this applies to them'). The following is from that site.

Kitty's needs are simple: unchecked power and internet fame.

 

Well, that's a turn of events and certainly encouraging. I hope that she will begin eating on her own and that the eating problems and loose stools come to an end.
You have been so busy coping with a great deal and I hope you get a little bit more rest before you have to go back to work today. When you get a few extra minutes (yah, I know, rolling eyes) create your signature. This is pertinent information on your cat that is attached to each of your posts and informs all who read and respond to your posts without having to scroll back and search for that or repeatedly ask you. Here's a link to doing that: SIGNATURE. There is also some additional info on filling out profile information and selecting preferences, which you can do at any time.
I sure hope your kitty is on the mend and things get more manageable.

 

I’m happy to hear Cordelia is on the upswing! Get some needed rest.

 

So I've been waiting an hour and a half for a call back from the vet's office.

She is sleeping--but not that `can't wake up' kind of tiredness--I understand, I'm tired, too. She seems happier--purred when I picked her up to test this morning.

I tested her this morning at 107, and am reluctant to force feed (okay, assist feed might be appropriate terminology for some cats, but yeah)---I think she needs a little chance to get her appetite working for her and let herself heal. Also hesitant to give her insulin because I'm afraid that without food it would push her into hypoglycemia.

Have to head off for work, will be an hour late. Arrggh.

ETA: tested her again before I left--first test was just before 8, second at 9:30, results then were 95. So dropping some, but not tanking. Made the call to not give insulin or an assist feed, or the anti-diarrhea meds or anything else to stress her out, just let her rest.

This is like some bizarre game where any decision you make can either help or kill--the only rule is that you have to make a decision.

Onward.

 

What a day. I bet most people reading this are nodding as if to say, yep, I've had those days.

No complaints, I hasten to add. Just long and weary day here. Was late at work, went to the grocery store and bought every flavor of Fancy Feast I could find, as well as several others, plus baby food. Stopped to fill my sucking-air gas tank, drove home, late by the time I arrived, but to my delight, for the first time in a week, Cordelia was waiting for me on the stairs. Clearly it was a bit of a rocky journey, but she celebrated by drinking out of the upstairs bowl, and then shakily making her way downstairs (house is built into a hillside, so main entry is upstairs, kitchen is downstairs) where she hung out, purring so loudly I could hear her from several feet away. Seemed happy and affectionate.

I opened three containers I'd bought, and even rubbed some on her gums, and this time she at least licked them, sniffed the food with interest, and it was like watching a dieter consider, then take a pass on a slick of chocolate cake. "Yes, I want it, but I shouldn't, really," before finally getting down and walking away. This time she selected the bed by the woodstove, not as hidden away as The Box. BG tested much higher, 273, so I will be giving her the whole magillicuddy tonight: dinner via syringe, appetite pill, anti-diarrhea meds, fluids, and insulin. She seems stronger today, and I'm not willing to let her go longer without food.

I left out dry food for her, which is gone, but that could well have been Serendipity walking past and thinking, "Waste not, want not," or whatever cats think about that. I let her have the can of FF that Cordelia rejected, thinking Cordelia's appetite might be inspired by the other's eating frenzy. Nope. C turned away in delicate disgust like an anorexic watching a glutton. Thought I heard her tummy rumbling, which I took to be a good sign until I realized it was my own that was inspired by the hoovering of the FF. We have no secrets here, right? My digestive system knew a good thing when it smelled it. When I tried rubbing some of the Sheba Perfect Portions Delicate Salmon Entrée Pate in Natural Juices (seriously, who writes this stuff?) on her gums, she licked it off and swallowed it. I'd rather sit here for an hour rubbing her gums with SPPDSEPNJ than put a syringe in her mouth again.

Have a fire going (I can take a hint), and now I am going to put a Netflix or youtube vid on and relax and do the evening feed/fluids/meds. Wish me well--I figure I'll be at this for a couple of hours.

I got several of those documents printed out today, so I have hard copies of at least the ones I think are most important.

 

A better day then. I'm so glad you got your printouts, and the signature made. Suggestion, add the Prozinc dosage, how many units you shoot every 12 hours, and a geographical location, general or specific whichever you are comfortable with, so we have a time zone reference. Please get the spreadsheet going, and record your BG tests, There is a comment section on the spreadsheet and it would helpful to record feeding times and amount you get into Delia. I know there was a lot of information provided to you in a short, stressful time, but I wonder if you noted the recipe for the Liver Shake for assisted feeding, for cats not eating? I'm just trying to think of what might help you and Cordelia. I hope you had, or are having a good night, and Delia steadily improves.

 

@Snowleopard How is Delia, how are you? What's happening?

 

Earlier today I wrote: Good morning,
Delia was again stressed by the multiple treatments last night, but later really seemed to relish a cuddle--I finally had to put her down so I could get to sleep at midnight, and am up now at 5:30, thinking about her and what's best. I asked the vet tech I spoke to on

That's as far as I got, decided that even though it was early I wanted to check her blood sugar. It was 41. Retested with a larger drop: 49. I warmed up some honey, rubbed it on her gums, and retested later: 51. Got everything ready here for a speedy departure: dressed, packed up, sprayed the travel bag w/Feliway. Vet clinic opened at 7:30, called in, spoke to a tech who looked at her notes and listened to me, and said she thought it was time to bring her in. I agreed, and brought her in. They retested her there with a larger blood sample, and it was 49 again. Doc said she looked dehydrated, so they gave her fluids. We discussed her numbers, and he said that he thought she'd flipped.

Yesterday after feeding, she tested at 237, so I upped the insulin to 2.5 units, based on his earlier recommended dose. I think that's what drove her into hypo. I told him I felt the same way, that the interventions at this point were a lot of stress for her emotionally and physically. His recommendation at this point is to hold off with any insulin unless her BG go up above 350, and then only administer .5 unit, maximum of twice a day. We're stopping all meds, and I'm not going to try the assist feed tonight, either. There's no evidence of abdominal pain on palpation.

She spent the day at the clinic, and they basically got an idea of what I've been going through--tried six different foods, noted the diarrhea, gave her fluids, Vitamin B shots. We are going to give her a day or two off the juice, no interventions beyond the fluids, and see how she does, see if the eating restarts. He also said they had no luck with syringe feeding, that she just spit everything out. That made me feel a bit less like an incompetent buffoon, though I would have been happy to see her get the calories if they had succeeded. On the upside, the poo was brown, not bloody. That also seems like a cause for cautious optimism.

He said that if she's not eating, then Friday at the latest it's time to hospitalize her, and put in a feeding tube. He said, "They don't like it, and [people] hate it, but . . ." and I told him I would welcome it. I asked if that was a temporary measure, and he said he would go into it with that idea.

Brought her home, and she headed straight for the bed next to the wood stove and went to sleep. I put water out for her and started a fire, and will probably put her in a room where she can be alone later and put food out for her. I think more than anything right now she just needs to rest.

I also had a brief `quality of life' discussion with him, and said that I didn't think that we were to that point, but that this couldn't go on indefinitely, and we needed to see how she did over the next few weeks, and he agreed.

So there it stands. I think she needs to be less stressed to heal, and he agrees.

So there it stands. She is OTJ, but not doing super-duper at the moment. Still, better than she was by a long shot.

Thank you for your post and your concern.

 

Wow! What an incredible day. I so hope that tonight she rests and begins healing. Her poor little body has been through so much. Hopefully you can find something she will eat, souped canned food, baby food, the Liver shake, something. I know you will do your best. Please, you also get some rest, this has been hard on you too, and you have to be ok to care for her and Serendipity. Peace, comfort and tons of healing energies to descend on your home. If you have to work tomorrow, maybe tonight make wet food slurry, freeze in ice cube trays and leave some cubes out to gradually thaw, and she could lick?

 

I recommend you begin a new thread, the It's four in the morning title does not convey any urgency, a question or indication of what the problem is. I would very much like for the veteran members on the board to read and respond. You can link this thread to the new one and then continue with updating about Delia's issues and current conditions.

 

Will do, Lou, tomorrow. But tonight, I just had to share the exciting news!!!

I went downstairs to check on her one last time, found her semi-awake, so offered her food, and she was interested enough to sniff. I rubbed some on her mouth, and she ate it! Repeated, and she ate it as well. Rubbed some on the fur of her leg that was right in front of her nose, and she ate that as well, then groomed her leg--first grooming behavior I've seen in a week.

Reminded me of a very sleepy toddler--would eat a little, rest, gather her strength and eat a little more. She probably downed about a teaspoon and a half of food, which isn't a lot, but it's a fine start.

I'm going to floss and roll up the sidewalk and call it a night. Thank you!

 

Terrific i am so happy. We will both sleep better tonight!

 

2.5 is a lot. Please stick with 1 unit

 

I am keeping my crossables crossed that she is off the juice. The vet seems to think that she is `flipping', as he calls it; in other words, her body is starting to self-regulate and she's beginning to produce what she needs. To put the 2.5 in perspective, when I returned two weeks ago, she was on 4.5 2x daily, and appeared to be doing well. 2.5 was the `cutting back' dose recommended by the vet, but clearly is too much for her now. He's now saying no more than .5, and only if her blood reads at or above 350.

It's four in the morning here, Alaska Central Time, again, a fitting bookend for this thread. Went downstairs to check on her, and found a still-very-sleepy, but very happy cat. She got lap time and snuggles from myself and Serendipity, whom she adores, and I thought about the nature of love and what it means for her. I think that loving is her gift--she's just extraordinarily attuned to and appreciative of affection. I really believe that she was slipping away on Saturday, and that she rallied because of love--I think that it means that much to her, perhaps because she went so long without it, perhaps because she's just a very sensitive girl, perhaps both. But when she was feeling at her worst, those long snuggle sessions seemed to give her strength and focus. Ah, we'll never know, but I just have a hunch that this is so.

I checked her blood while I was down there, and was happy to see it up, 223, because it said to me that she got some calories in earlier when she ate. I fed her a little more--still very sleepy, had to do the same thing--rub it on the corner of her mouth, and then some on her paw, maybe a teaspoon altogether. She got down off my lap after a bit and staggered back to her bed near the stove, and curled up, and went back to sleep. She's the purringest girl now. I think she feels better, and is happy about it.

And I am back in bed, and going back to sleep. Thank you again for the concern, advice, and well-wishes. It's been very helpful to not have to go it alone through this.

 

@Snowleopard How is Delia? I hope she is regaining strength and eating on her own. Thinking about her and paws crossed.

 

Thank you, Lou, for your concern and well-wishes.
Saturday for the win! What a week that was! Sun is shining and I am still in bed at 10 am oh my, but ejecting as soon as I give the update.

Cordelia has been moving around the house, getting and giving cuddles (and a few hisses to be put in her place again). She is eating on her own, but acting like something is uncomfortable about that--I'm afraid I might have bruised her or squirted food in the wrong place when I was syringe-feeding. But she's eating in bigger amounts now, and looking altogether like a much better girl. I even let her out on the deck for a few minutes to enjoy the sun and feel the breeze. Brought her in and she sneezed-sneezed-sneezed, so I think that we're not going to do more outings for awhile, but it's still a good sign that she is getting curious about her surroundings again.

Thursday I took her blood sugar when I got home, and it was 318. Since she was still bleeding and I had more stix, out of idle curiosity I measured again, and it was 352. Now I was concerned. Measured again. 400. Again. 452. All within a minute-and-a-half. Vet said to go with the first measurement, hold off on insulin. I got a high reading again yesterday, but it took multiple stabs to get the blood, and she was starting to resist the process. I stayed the course per his advice and did not give insulin, and she is looking good this morning. And for the moment, at least:

 

Thanks so much for the reply, I have been wondering. I did not go back to the entire beginning of all your posts..but I want to ask, have you been injecting the Prozinc since diagnosis, but not at a consistent dose? Your signature says dosing by units.
Can you tell me why the vet does not want Delia to have insulin with those numbers, is it just because she wasn't eating? 318, 352, 400 and 452 are high enough numbers. High numbers for a long period causes damage. I am sure she does get a little testy with the testing, it's all new to her. Have you been testing consistently since diagnosis also? Do you reward with a yummy treat after every test/attempt? I am so glad she's feeling better and eating better, but she's still got those high BG numbers, and until she's regulated or genuinely in remission she isn't going to feel entirely well, or be able to process her food well. I recommend that you post in the Prozinc forum and see what the veteran members there think and might recommend.