Itty, part 3

OK guys, you got us thru the night now we have to get her thru the day... It is time for prayers, angels &finger/paw crossing.

The emergency vets were giving incorrect advice so we were at our vets office as the techs arrived for work and they brought us right in.

they got similar bg readings to what I had gotten all night
Itty is dehydrated
No Keytones (sp?) (YAY!)
A VERY full bladder that he couldn't get to let go but no infection
He believed it could be anything from a stroke/high blood pressure/nurological damage to kidney problems to potentially being something she would "snap out of"... to the fact that she had flea poop on her.
the vet and I talked for about 45 min and given my budget limitations and the fact that he had NO CLUE what was going on he gave me 2 options... One: send more blood work off to the lab, bring her home and keep her comphy or 2. put her down. He was clearly leaning towards 2 even though there is no evidence that she is uncomfortable.

SO... I don't like those options so we head off to the original vet that I don't like as much but who takes payments.
She brought in another vet from that clinic and she had MUCH more experience...

Itty is spending the day and maybe more with them. they have her on sub-Q fluid to try and get her hydration up to do an IV. They got her to empty her bladder in a matter of minutes (OK not intentionally... they set her on a towel and laughed at the relief on her face... Now I know who is peeing on the towels my son leaves on the bathroom floor!). This vet also got a very similar BG to what I had been getting all night. This vet also could not come up with a clear idea of what we are facing but at least she didn't say the "e" word.

nothing new for Itty recently other than the insulin and food... no new meds or antibiotics.

Now for a MUCH needed nap for mom... I will catch up any other details I know or new details once mom is not disoriented and wobbly from lack of sleep!

 

Fingers and paws crossed here that the fluids, etc. help her out tremendously and she shows some great progress today. Great job last night and today! Itty was lucky to find you. Get some rest.

p.s. If you're not sleeping yet, I'd suggest changing your icon. The candle is very often used in memory of a cat. When I first saw it, I thought the worst.

 

Cam I am sooooo sorry this has been your first experience with shooting. You were incredible. especially as itty is just an unexpected and new kitty for you. I think this goes down in the anals as the most awful newbie night for hypo.
I never liked the fact that after the first shot given at the vets, he told you to go home and shoot that evening sans test.
that was awful.
please get some rest if you can today.
i know you have your son to look after, hope he goes to school and you can have a day off.
sending cyber hugs \
(((((CAM)))))
lori and tom

 

Cameron, I'm glad you took her in.

Hoping for the best today.

((((hugs)))

 

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

Ask the vet to check the potassium level. Low levels of potassium looks similar to this. My vet was thinking that Tucker had to be put down in late March from a potassium crash. Two days of going back and forth to the vet for IV fluids before they finally checked his electrolytes and saw the low potassium.

Insulin, I'm not sure on the technical stuff here, but I know it can take potassium from some cell and bring it to others, something like that. Basically it can cause a crash like this. Hypoaklemia is most often seen in kidney failure cats or unregulated FDs, too much water intake and output, but the insulin itself can do it too.

Get some rest, but do check on that potassium level with the vet. I saw your earlier thread, you did a great job through a very difficult time.

 

i thought of tucker right away when i read your post. i might expect ketones with the staggering but Itty's numbers were better. other thought was stroke or some neuro event. not a vet tho -- i'm sure your vet will get to the bottom of this.
i'm so glad you got her to the vet to do something. this was so scary -- i know you saved her life, and i'm praying the vets can pull her through.
hoping you get a good night's sleep so you can make the necessary decisions for her. if she has to be there a few days at least, it would probably cheer her up a lot to have something with your smell on it (like a t-shirt you wear overnight or for a few hours). i wouldn't expect to get it back, tho you probably will, but it can bring a bit of home to your kitty and make her feel more secure.

 

Been reading you posts, especially from last night, and near had heart failure when I saw the candle. As Janice said, please remove it......I thought Itty was gone. It takes a while for everything to come together......food, insulin, adjusting to a home.........maybe too much insulin, maybe the karo, even though it probably saved her, could have upset her tummy, maybe the full bladder,........blood work should give you some answers. One heck of a way to learn hometesting but prayers coming for Itty. Well done, Cam and looking for updates on Itty.

 

basically cam, whenever a cat goes over the rainbow bridge (dies) and 90% of the time totally unrelated to diabetes we put that particular candle up to let everyone know. we all feel very sad when we see that candle. the other two candles are for prayers.
funny group we are with all our little traditions huh?
we love our kitties and care a great deal about each other.
you are part of the family now, like it or not :mrgreen:
lori and tom.
all are praying for itty, since last night.

 

Candle changed... sorry about the scares! I had picked up on the rainbow as kitties past but not the candle and wanted to avoid the 911 as she really is not in a place right now where FDMB could help but she is still not in a good place! :mrgreen:

 

Hi Cam-

I'm SO glad that you were able to take her in. I was thinking, is it possible that she got into something poisonous? We always immediately go to the insulin (or lack of) as the culprit, but maybe it's something random that she came across. I hope that you are able to get some answers. You've definitely EARNED some sleep after last night's marathon!! And yes, my heart too crashed to the floor when I saw that candle! SOOO happy she's still with us! Pfewf!! I'll be looking out for progress updates and sending you both some happy thoughts!

s

 

Im so glad you got your kitty in .. shes right where she needs to be right now, getting the medical attention she needs. She will be home soon I'm sure!

 

Thank you for taking time to update us, I'm sure you are totally exhausted! Please try to get some sleep, Itty is in good hands and I bet the vet will find out what the problem is and get her heading in the right direction. :YMHUG: for you and Itty!

 

I'm so glad you were able to get her to a vet that you trust, and that they are doing everything they can and working with you on the payment, that must be a huge relief.

Sending prayers she recovers quickly & they can figure out what happened. You did a really awesome job getting through a terrifying night, she is in good hands, and hopefully you can catch up on your own recovery!! Thanks for keeping us posted.

cat_pet_icon

 

you know it occurred to me that maybe itty was dropping all day long from his first shot.
there was no testing during the day, no pre shot test in the evening. that hypo could have been a result of the first shot being the overdose.
that would explain the up and down #'s she was getting all night into today.

 

OK, too exhausted to catch it earlier but... Rose and Baby: We are HUGE little pink sock fans in our house too!

Just put a call in on Itty... no news yet

Mom is going back to napping! Maybe his time without having to call poison control after! (my son started eating out of the trash durring a previous nap... a behavior he had not had in 5yrs until all the stress). Good news is that if he gets sick I just have to get him drinking gator aid which he beggs for all the time anyway.

Also, I too had wondered if Itty had not been monitored well enough after the first dose but didn't trust myself because I am so new at this.

 

advise you to get a copy of itty's records from the vet. most states require a vet to provide requested copies to the client. you don't have to say anything more than that you need them for your files, and would like the chart notes, too.
if they tested during the day they would probably have charged you for each test, and should have the results recorded.
my vet did a mini curve on cleo's first shot day (supposedly tested every 3 hrs) but she had a severe symptomatic hypo that day that i didn't even hear about til hours later when i picked her up (don't even know if i would have been told if it weren't for the fact that cleo was really sick when i picked her up). so, yep, it really makes sense to get copies of the records each time you take a cat to the vet.

 

crud... took notes on here while talking to two vets saying polar opposite stuff and it got lost in cyber space.

the vet that wanted to put her down said low dehydration, high red blood cell count, possible hemobart, suggested chest and abdomen x-rays and is frustrated she is being seen by another vet.

Vet that has her now: sugar has been good all day, still not eating, still wobbling. Said she was very dehydrated and did sub-q fluids until she could IV. ran a blood test after hydrating and no red blood cell issue. Intestines are like rope when manipulated. Poop is miscolored as if she may not be digesting propperly. May be freak reaction to insulin but given her numbers today no sign that she went hypo. she is double checking for hemobart (that the first vet said she wouldn't know about) but has not seen any indication of that in her blood work past or present.

So the only thing the vets can agree on is that they are confused!

Ahhhhhh! confused_cat nailbite_smile

thoughts anyone????

 

I'm still leaning towards electrolytes since she's wobbling but has good blood sugar. Tucker's BGs were in the 100-200 range, it was the potassium that crashed. Did they check that?

 

crud... forgot to ask about that... sleep depervation is seriously taking its toll... she is calling back after hemobart double check... will try and ask then. Thanks for the reminder.

 

High RBC does not scream hemobart to me. Low RBC, HMB, HCT (anemia) can indicate hemobart. I too would still put my money on the dehydration/electrolyte imbalance.

edit to add: can you send me your location? (either here, or pm maybe). I have a great local vet here in Bloomington that are really diligent about getting animals better and have excellent prices. (like old school low vet prices)

 

Good call on the potasium... she is at a 2 and they are giving it as fast as they can without overdosing. IF (and it sounds like a big if) they can get potasium in her fast enough, it works and she makes it thru the night then there MIGHT be hope. We are still very much in the red here. The vet is seeing serious digestion issues and without a history and the crappy conditions she was most likely in before coming to me it is hard to pin point a cause and therefore options. IF she pulls thru the night there might be hope for management of some kind of intestinal issue But... that is a whole new world that doesn't begin until tomorrow. There is a vet tech who lives above this office and she will take the night shift tonight!

So... now all I can do is try to manage a very distraught bean and try to keep myself out of the ER... Did I mention I don't do stress well???? We would NOT have made it this far without you guys!!!! nailbite_smile

 

I am so sorry that I am not processing things effeciently or corectly today... thanks for hanging in there with me! AND the reminders. AND for getting it right when all the vets were getting it wrong. Usually I am a rather huge academic/credentials snob... I am glad that for once I went with my gut and trusted you all.

I know this sounds bad but I am VERY relieved that, for now, it is in God's hands and Itty's heart and I am out of the decision making loop. I am in NO space to have to make hard choices right now.

We are in Indy on the marion county/johnson county line (46217)

SO... in the spirit of planning for the best... any one out there got kitties with digestive issues???? If tomorrows journey is going to be anything like yesterday I had better start learning! That and it will keep me from calling the vets office every 5 min. so they can focus on Itty!

 

You may be suprised. Now that they are giving potassium things could get better.

When Tucker's crash occured, they didn't check the potassium at first, he was getting IV fluids which I believe had potassium in them. His level was over 3, but barely.

The first day I thought he would not make it to the vet. The second day, my vet thought he would not make it. The third day was a Sunday, I had him home with me. He was a shell of himself. Walked around like he had a seizure. He walked aimlessly, walking over beds, through litter boxes as if he saw and felt nothing.

It was a really scary time. My vet had planned to come in on Monday, her day off, to put him down. But he rallied. One the potassium level started to go up he got better and fast. By Monday his potassium was at 3.4 or 3.6, I don't recall exactly. For a few months it stayed at 3.9. I believe 3.5 - 5.8 were the levels my vet said he needed to be in.

Today, or at least last week, Tucker tested at 4.1, he continues to take Tumil-K supplement, 1.5 pills twice per day. He eats them crushed up in some canned food.

Tucker also was a rescue who back in 05 we thought he would not survive. Through trial and error, and organ biopsies, we learned he had pancreatitis and IBD, but it was through this board and Dr. Lisa that I stopped giving anything with gluten. Turned out Tucker is allergic to corn and wheat gluten. I'm not saying that will magically fix your kitty, but maybe stay away from gluten food for a while. Currently Tucker is eating Wellness canned, but up until last week he was doing great on Fancy Feast gourmet feast canned from the list that don't contain gluten. If he has gluten in his food, Tucker's IBD acts up and he can get blocked very quickly. His IBD presents with constipation.

Give Itty some time on the potassium. A day or two may not be enough as her numbers are low. Also, I believe I've read on here that magnesium should be checked if potassium is low. I'll try to find the links on that.


ETA: I can't find the exact threads I was thinking of, but it was Michelle and her kitty Doodle that I first learned about the magnesium, might be this thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16734&p=166406&hilit=magnesium#p166406

 

THANK YOU Jennifer!! without you seeing Tucker in Itty I am sure we would still be searching. Itty's first time in the ER was for a blockage... so we have been there too.

Hmmm... more gluten free... harumph! Both my son and I are on low gluten diets because of autism. So I know what gluten can do in a person who does not tollerate it well both first hand and as a carefully observant parent. My dog too has been diagnosed with a wheat allergy but I suspect it is the gluten. I never would have gotten there with Itty. When we get the good news in the morning that her potasium and spirits are up I will stock up on ff! Fuuny, of all the low carb foods in the house last night it was the ff (all from the gluten free list) that I tried to get Itty to eat.

 

yep, never fear, many of us have kitties with digestive issues, too, so when you have questions about that start a thread here on the health forum.

see, that potassium thing just jumped out at a few of us. very glad you asked the vet and got it confirmed. terrible that it happened to tucker but one advantage of a large group like this is the likelihood someone here will already have dealt with most feline health issues.

get a good rest today, and we'll all send strong vibes itty gets thru this with flying colors.

 

Hi Cam-

I'm SO glad that you are getting some answers and the vets were able to take some positive action!! I know you're not out of the woods yet, but it's a move in the right direction. I just know that tomorrow is going to be a great day!!

It's funny how worlds collide....I am an ABA Program Director. You really do have your hands full and you've been a rockstar through all of this!! I'll be waiting anxiously for your update!!

s

 

Just an update on Itty's bean...

pushing fluids and low carb, high protein, gluten free foods. sound familiar? :lol: Got a little in me and am waiting to see if that stays down. Realized about an hour ago that all I had to eat (and kept down) since 6am yesterday was a couple of quick bites of eggs.

SO... where is the bean emergency/self care FAQ???? Just a thought... ;-)
Oh, and don't try to tell me you don't need one... there were plenty of you up with me all night and it wasn't even your kitty!

 

We recommend an emergency stash of chocolate on hand for the bean. Maybe a glass of wine too

You get rest, tomorrow will be here soon enough and Itty may be a lot better, or still tired, but either way, give her time to get the potassium up and go from there. I'm so thankful for each day that Tucker is here and so happy that I did give him time to rally, Tucker is an amazing little man as is your sweet Itty.

Like Chris said, the collective knowledge on this board is an amazing thing. I come here for all my FD and civvie questions. (In case you haven't seen that yet - civvie - civilian cat who does not have FD)

 

So glad you got her to that 2nd vet where she has a fighting chance! How can the 1st one simultaneously recommend PTS and then be frustrated you are turning to someone else for her care?!? ohmygod_smile Points to a good decision on your part to get her to another vet, YAY!!!

She sounds like a real trooper, sending good vibes her way to get feeling better asap! HUGS!!! :YMHUG:

 

Sounds like little Itty is going to be a fighter, and it's great that she found you when she did. Hoping for some really good news in the morning.

 

Glad to hear you are taking care of yourself too Cameron.
Sending more prayers for Itty for a speedy recovery.

 

YAY! Itty made it thru the night!
Now we need to get her body temp up and maintain it herself. She has gotten 1/2 of her potasium load. She is on a heating pad and at 97 degrees. She did come off the pad last night and her temp dropped so now they have a full cage pad.
She can now lift her little head.

 

Thanks for the update, I've been wondering how you both were doing.

Lifting her head is great. One of the major signs of potassium loss is inability to lift the head.

Will continue to keep you both in my thoughts and send lots of good healing vibes her way.

 

great news and as mentioned above. do not forget to ask about the magnesium level

 

Keeping all fingers and paws crossed that Itty makes a full recovery. Thanks for the update.

Mel & Muse (GA)

 

Cam, please start a new thread on Itty.......Itty, part 4. I'm so glad to know Itty made it through the night but do not understand that not one vet checked her potassium and all electrolyte values when/if they did blood work.

 

cam i got a little choked up there when you said 'she can lift her little head'
you both have so many people caring for both of you...i already love itty!