I've been here before, but ...

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Steve in CT, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Steve in CT

    Steve in CT New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Hello .... I've been on this MB a long time ago with Harper who became diabetic when she was about 4-5 years old. I'm not sure, but I think that was at least 10 years ago.

    Based on your recommendation, I stopped the kibble everyone (all 8 cats) was eating and switched to Friskies / FF and homemade raw. We tested Harper 4-7 times a day and within a couple months, her numbers were back to normal and she has lived a long life. Harper is 18 years old and still relatively heathy.

    Here's my dilemma ... JR (male, SH 18 year old male) developed some stomatitis. Vet did some surgery and wanted him on lactoferrin for life, but that did not stick to the dry food that the vet prescribed, which is Royal Canin HP at $100 for 17#. The price is not an issue, altho it is pretty steep. I also had to give JR prednisilone 20u daily ... I eventually dropped it to 5u / day. He's quite difficult for one person to catch and give and injection and won't eat the pred in a treat. He did, but decided ... as cats often do ... that he doesn't want to do that.

    Anyway, JR developed diabetes which we found about a month ago doing a BG test at the vets. They want him to stay on the dex and the HP and test him again. Here's my take on this .... I think the diabetes is due to the prednisilone/dex and the HP (which is 33% carbs). Steroid induced diabetes is not that uncommon I think. They did not want him to have any Friskies, or FF ... even tho, these are like 5-8% carb. Of course, JR drinks a ton, and pees (inappropriately now) a great amount, too.

    I know this is pretty brief, but wanted to post and see what you folks think. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Hello Steve,

    welcome back - if it's appropriate to say under the circumstances but it is the best place you don't want to be.:)

    I do not have experience with stomatitis or with taking Pred but wanted to say Hi, and thank you for posting about Harper - what an achievement! It was very encouraging and inspirational to learn that she is doing fine.

    There are at least several people who administered Pred and others who dealt with stomatitis. I cannot remember the names at the moment thou. I hope that they will stop by to share their thoughts soon.

    The only tip I have for you right now is that you need to get those experienced folks to see your post. For that you need to keep it at the top of the Forum list. Just write a reply to your own original post and it will be bumped up to the top where more eyes can catch it. Another tip to get attention is to go to your original post and click on the Thread Tool at the upper right corner of the post and then click on Edit Title - add words Stomatitis and Prednisolon to your title's subject line and choose the question mark from the drop down menu box on the left of the title line - this way people will know that there is unanswered question pending. Does;) it make any sense?

    My two cents on your posts:
    I think you nailed it. Happened unfortunately to way too many kitties:(.
    Unless JR has kidney problem I see no reason to avoid Friskies or Fancy Feast - both are high in Phosphorous and are to be avoided in case of kidney disease which are common in Harper and JR's respectable ages. The recent blood work can answer whether or not the P is to be avoided. Other than that many vets prescribe the food that has nothing of value to cats. But , again, I have no experience with stomatitis.

    I never heard of this drug but I do question the necessity of eating the prescription foods.They almost never any better than Friskies or FF.
    If JR needs this med - then I hope you can ditch the Royal Canin HP - dry is no good for any cat, anyway.

    I hope someone with knowledge of your issues will stop by shortly. Sometimes the Forum is quiet - so just post a reply to your own post - stay at the top and be seen:). Welcome and the best of luck!

    @Chris & China
    @Wendy&Neko
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    Reason for edit: typo
  3. Waheeda

    Waheeda Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017
    Hi,
    Sharing my experience with stomatitis. My cat had it since 3 years ago when he was a stray. Has been on prednisolone jab since then, every 6 weeks interval and prednisolone tabs in between. Just had some molars removed few weeks back but no improvement to his stomatitis. Vet said to continue with injections but to stretch it as much as we can. He will definitely get diabetes according to the vet. In fact, his BG is already at high 100 but no insulin yet. No change in diet. He does eat FF and other food. No mention of prescription food. What does lactoferrin do? Does it improve the inflammation?
     
  4. Steve in CT

    Steve in CT New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Here's some quick findings regarding lactoferrin and feline stomatitis.

    Lactoferrin

    David McCluggage, D.V.M., C.V.A.

    Lactoferrin seems to have immune modulating and antibacterial properties.

    Lactoferrin binds iron necessary for bacterial growth. It is effective in controlling feline stomatitis1. Lactoferrin is a whey protein usually derived from dairy milk, and is typically dosed at 50 mg/kg, or simply powdered on foods.
     
  5. Tanya and Ducia

    Tanya and Ducia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Thank yo for posting it, Steve.
    Hmm, I am trying to figure out why this medicine doesn't go with your current diet?..
    I wonder if @Marje and Gracie can help here...
     
  6. Waheeda

    Waheeda Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017
    Thanks! Will Chk with vet.
     
    Tanya and Ducia likes this.
  7. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Wish I could but I’ve never had a cat with stomatitis and I haven’t used lactoferrin. However, I am familiar with stomatitis and how painful it can be. It seems a little overkill to have him on dex and Pred unless he has horrific inflammation. Have they tried to cut back and slowly eliminate the dex and give him some pain meds like buprenorphine? I’m assuming his age makes surgery out of the question. So then you have to just keep him comfortable.
     
  8. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Sorry, no experience with stomatitis here either.

    You can get pred compounded so it's a treat, instead of putting something into a treat which is still a pill.
     
  9. Steve in CT

    Steve in CT New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Maybe I was unclear. JR was on pred, but stopped taking it in treats, so we switched him to dex injections whiched worked fine until JR became coy and difficult to catch. Since he's become diabetic, I've cut the dex to 5u every other day. Which seems OK since catching him is difficult. I've now started JR back on the lactoferrin to help with the stomatitis. He's still on the Royal Canin HP. which I'm not happy about. I got another text today from the vet stating that they did not want JR on FF or Friskies, since the "food allergy issue would increase the probability of stomatitis". ?? I'm not sure what to make of that statement. 33% carbs from the HP, 6% from the FF/Friskies. Duh?
     
  10. vbc2000

    vbc2000 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    I am totally convinced Tigger got the diabetes from 5mg prednisoline every day and high carb dry Hill's z/d for allergies. We have gotten his BG to normal levels from cutting back to 2.5 MG prednisolone every other day, putting him on FF low carb wet and 1.25 units Vetsulin twice per day.

    I was really worried about his allergies coming back because of the FF, but guess what? They havent. I have a great amount of guilt about the food and pred. because he is fine in the decreased pred and normal food. Just trying to move on from here. I'm VERY thankful he's regulated now.
     
  11. Steve in CT

    Steve in CT New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    I am also convinced that the pred / dex along with a high carb kibble is making many of my cats sick. I voiced this to the vet several times and was pooh / pooh'd. I guess I'm just too stupid to understand the affiliation between these dangerous components. I went thru this when I had to deal with Haper's diabetes. If not for this MB, I'm sure she would not be with us these 10 years later.

    When I was in college, I was told to look at all scientific angles before making an assumption about the truth. I don't understand how many vets can continue to misinterpret findings and data that is well known to even the general population. If you eat a bunch of carbs, get fat ... you will probably develop type 2 diabetes. ?? I know that selling crap food for $100 for 17 pounds is pretty lucrative, and keeping cats and their owners coming back forever for insulin and BG check is putting money in the bank ... that that is pretty odd IMO.
     
  12. vbc2000

    vbc2000 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Apparently that's get very little training in diabetes management. I imagine it's up to them and a natural curiosity to increase their knowledge and become more versed in what the correct course of treatment is. My vet is pretty good. She at least works with me and listens and tries. That's more than a lot of people have so I'm thankful. I to believe this message board has gotten my Tigger on the right track.
     
  13. Steve in CT

    Steve in CT New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2017
    Harper's issue was over a decade ago. And, we've had others that I believed were diabetic from kibble/meds. I've talked to at least 5 vets about kibble / carb induced diabetes and always get "the look". Like I'm some sort of crazy, conspiracy theory person. But, that's far from the truth. I have a science background and an advanced degree in dentistry. I'm well aware of the having things done because it's always been this way. And, that is why I'm pushing against the standard vet response to diabetes and other ailments our furry guys get. Pretty depressing.

    I made raw food according to this menu on this MB for many years. My feline only vet ... both of them ... say that this raw is causing food allergies and this is why JR, Harper, Everest and others are "sick". I am not convinced. The cat's normal prey has ZERO carbs, no corn, no wheat, no rice, no cranberries, no pumpkin, no peas, no 'other veggies'. And, they don't appear to become sick. Disgusting information ... and pretty pricey information as well. Just great!
     

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