Jaxa/(was dosing advise Again)

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Glassgoblin, May 16, 2018.

  1. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Just tested for PMPS and got a 148, thought that was odd, so tested the other ear and got a 149. Skip the shot or do the stalling/no food for 20? She is pawing at me for her food right now.

    I've been told that she seemed normal all day, but I worry what she might have been at nadir (when she was at 321 for AMPS). She also hasn't eaten for at least three hours because she was outside.

    *Edited to add- Stalled 20, tested and she was at 146. Decided to skip shot. I'd rather she be a little higher tomorrow than go too low tonight.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I would probably stall and test again.. up to twice... you have up to an hour of 'play' time with ProZinc. If it stays that low, you could skip, or if you will be around to monitor and take action if needed, you could give a reduced dose, maybe half of her normal dose. It looks likes this is your first pre-shot this low, so there is not really any history on how she will do. These situations are when you get that kind of data! If you are comfortable with it.
     
  3. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    It doesn't help that a stranger just came to our door, so the dog freaked out, and now Jaxa is completely terrified and hiding.
     
  4. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Awww, poor thing.
     
  5. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If you can, try to grab a test before bed tonight so we can see how she's doing without insulin this cycle. Try to get it sometime after +14 (at least two hours after her usual PMPS time). Prozinc rarely lasts more than 14 hours, so I'd like to see where she's at once that AM shot is out of her system. If you can't, it's okay, but it would be good data to have for next time she gives you a surprisingly low PS number.
     
  6. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    I did get a +15 (+3?) and she was pretty much where she was on the nights we had a furshot. This AMPS was at 281, so I am going to think of it as a purposeful furshot. However, when/if it happens again I will stall at least one more time and then give a smaller than usual dose I think. I'm really not confident about adjusting things on a shot to shot basis- maybe after a few more months of data and experience.

    The stranger at the door was a neighbor who was looking for her kitty, missing three days, and I didn't have the heart to tell her about the foxes that I saw in my yard this last weekend. Jaxa is never allowed out at night, but it is so hard when they stage a break-out on their own.
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Another option is to go ahead and give her some food and shoot when she rises from the food. You can't do that with kitties who are less stable than Jaxa, but she's steady enough and on a high enough dose that it could be a good strategy for you.

    That's scary about the foxes in the neighborhood and a missing kitty. Hopefully she's just hiding somewhere or accidentally closed in someone's garage and will come home soon.
     
  8. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    I'm going to try this because I don't want to miss another shot so soon; tonight she was at 167, then 183. (I got two tests of the 1st drop of blood 167 and 182 then stalled and got 183.) She wasn't outside all day today, though she is out of the food room for a while before it even gets put up, so I am not sure why she has been so low these two nights. I worry about what might happen when I am late from training on Monday.

    So feeding right now and will test in 30?
     
  9. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    Okay, so I tested 30 min after she ate and it was at 166. And she is eating again, but I don't really know what to do right now.
     
  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How far past shot time are you?
     
  11. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    About 40-45 min past our usual time at this point. I tested the first time a few minutes early.
     
  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You can be as late as an hour and still keep your regular schedule in the morning. So if you can, I'd test again at an hour and shoot then if possible. If it's not possible at that point, you can shoot whenever, but then you'll need to start moving your morning shot time later to make up for it. Another option would be to shoot a reduced dose now. So instead of skipping maybe just give 3u.
     
  13. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    I will try the smaller shot- I've been trying to move the time earlier and earlier now that we are getting light earlier in the day- so I can get more tests in the PM and so I can give the shot before I go to my dad's every Sunday (or leave super early in the morning for work trips). Will get a +3 and +5 tonight and watch her closely. Should I be trying for more +8/+10 tests? She is often fairly level between shots so I don't know why we are getting these low PMPS now. No change in diet, only pill is the B12, she is getting more exercise and playing with the dog, getting outside and probably eating grass but that has been going on for more than a week.
     
  14. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    All data is good data, but I don't know that you need to set an alarm for that. Of course if you happen to wake up anyway...

    The lower PS numbers are a little tricky. shooting on lower PS numbers can help keep a cat in better numbers. But it also carries some risk. As you try it (like you are tonight) and collect data, you will start to be able to shoot on lower and lower numbers, or you will start to learn how much to reduce the dose. Lower PS numbers are really good. It's what you want to see. But it does cause a bit of an anxiety attack when they first start to appear, especially when you have a cat on a higher dose. With my cat, I can shoot on numbers that are quite low and he stays steady. Other cats if you shoot on a low number will drop more than you want, so you have to reduce the dose for those kitties. The trouble is that there isn't really a way to predict. you kind of just have to try it, see what numbers you get, and be prepared to give some extra food if they get down too low.
     
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  15. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    I hope she doesn't move too much in # tonight; just did a +2 and she was at 108. She has been eating- little bit at a time, but a few times. Gave her some treats just now.

    *adding: +4 test just done and she is at 74. Her nadir usually seems to be +5, so I don't think she will go below 50 tonight, and I will probably get some sleep. I gave her a little more treat though and she is still eating her YAZ. I got the honey out just in case, so will leave it out for now.

    I think we will put off increasing the dose to 4.75 for the moment and see how the next several days go for pre-shots- especially Monday PM when my mother will be testing and giving the shot on her own. I don't know if this is breaking through on her doses or if there is something else affecting numbers- I've been adding plenty of food to her dish so she is eating more than she should, not less.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018 at 11:09 PM
    Reason for edit: added additional test info
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  16. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    And this morning it looks like we are bouncing, but she is acting like herself and eating her food and devouring the B12/soup mix. I did notice that both nights that had the low PMPS were days that we have had rain so she didn't go outside as much and was more inactive/less grass. Not sure if there is correlation yet, so will continue keeping notes.

    Whenever we go to the vet I feel like such a "helicopter mom" because I can tell them all about her litterbox habits, and exact times of food, shots, tests, anything unusual, her energy levels, etc. I think it was telling when my first vet office kinda blew me off when I'd tell them that her urine smelled sweet (they didn't diagnose the diabetes), or that she was showing signs of pain (from the pancreatitis).
     
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  17. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think the more of those clinical signs you can relay the better it is for a thinking vet to diagnose things. They deal with a lot of unaware pet parents and should welcome your thoroughness. If they ignore you they're not doing their job properly. Even if they think some of the info isn't relevant they should listen and tell you what they're focusing on and why - ie., have a dialogue.
     
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  18. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You've had two long cycles in the past couple of days, and the 3u was enough insulin last night - she didn't rise even though you reduced the dose quite a bit. My hunch is that she's ready for a little less insulin. Today's cycle will likely stay high-ish and rather flat since she was green last night, but do get some tests in today so we can see if that's what happens.

    One possibility is that when she's outside she's found a food source that isn't low carb. Lots of folks leave cat or dog food on the back porch, and cats travel long distances when they are outside. If she's sneaking even a piece or two of kibble from somewhere it could be the difference between her lower inside-numbers and her higher outside-numbers.
     
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  19. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    I don't think she has found another animals food (unless it is a wild animal) though I will watch for signs; Jaxa is really good about staying on or next to our deck (she is a chicken and runs to the door anytime she hears a car or the dog barks). Every time I look for her I can find her immediately. We are pretty rural, so we have neighbors but they are not very close. However, she might be getting into the dog's things inside occasionally since that is down almost all day unless the dog actually eats it all. I make sure it is put away at night if there is anything in bowl, but my mother doesn't watch during the day and she gives the dog a lot of treats too.

    Would insects be higher carb? She has been catching flies, butterflies and beetles outside, and ate a spider last night. We used to toss out some produce scraps for the bunnies but I stopped doing that so the cat wouldn't be tempted to eat strawberry tops, or peels of anything.
     
  20. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    I think our new vet office is better, but it is hard to say since the last several visits were just for them to get blood tests done and I never even spoke to the actual Vet (we go on the day the specialist is there). The Vet Techs and Assistants are pretty awesome about going over results, getting data from my spreadsheet and following up later. They let me contact them through Facebook messenger too, and actually respond in a timely manner.
     
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  21. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Not too bad today- I got a +3 and a +7, both in 200s and her PMPS was in 200s, stuck with normal dose today. Will see how she goes tonight.
     
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  22. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    A bit lower than our average this AMPS too- 202. I fed and gave 4.25u shot. In the morning she does get a little carb with the b12/bisque even though it is only a Tbsp. Will be home doing chores most of the day so will get a few tests in and watch. I can give some more bisque later if she swings too low, but she was pretty steady yesterday. I hope these are good signs.

    Reduce doses by the same 1/4u? Like this AM, 4.25, test and if okay a couple more cycles?
     
  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's the method.
     
  24. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Well, my mother tested and gave the shot this PM since I hadn't gotten back in time. Mostly good that she managed both, though she read from the starting line on the needle as though that were 1 instead of 0, so we had a slightly smaller shot. She didn't have that trouble when I was walking her through it or showing her how over the weekend, but I suppose she was nervous without me there to oversee it. No worries at the moment though- no more trips until August. Jaxa seemed a little traumatized, but came back into the room with me and I added some fresh food to the dish and made sure she ate a bit more.
     
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  25. Glassgoblin

    Glassgoblin Member

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    Mar 3, 2018
    We are continuing to get some lower pre-shot test numbers, but when we got the 202 and today at 206 I gave the 4.25. I did get mid-day tests in on the 202, but today is a workday and she will likely be inside due to rain/thunderstorms so I am hoping she will eat more than she did yesterday. She wants to be outside so much and she doesn't typically eat a lot during the day (especially when it is warm and humid.) We had the slightly higher numbers after my mother's lower dose on Monday but she is swinging downwards again. I'm just not sure of anything- stay at 4.25 still or go to 4?

    I asked my vet to look at the spreadsheet (shared it with his office) and they called to say they liked the current trend and to keep up the testing; he suggested if she was under 200 and I were to give a lower u shot to just do half of her usual dose that night.
     
  26. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think you can give 4.25 u. She hasn't given you any greens on that dose and you've given it recently on similar PSs.
     
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