kidney failure in diabetic cats

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by cyndi and fuzzy, Jan 7, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cyndi and fuzzy

    cyndi and fuzzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    MY name is cyndi and my cat is fuzzy, I had a previous topic a couple days ago. Now my cat of 14 years is in the vet hospital for three days being treated for kindey failure, not sure what i will face when he comes home. there was mention of different diet and treatments i would have to give at home to manage the kidneys, he is also suffering from extreme inflamed gums due to bad teeth which are to be pulled as soon as its safe to do. I know nothing about the care at home for diabetic cats with kidney failure, maybe some of you who are dealing with this coul

    d shed some lite on the subject or it may be too early to ask. any info would be appreciated. thankyou cyndi and fuzzy



    Please look at end of topic page, new reply post done tonite!
     
  2. Ronnie & Luna

    Ronnie & Luna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Cyndi and Fuzzy...I'm so sorry for the news u have received. My heart goes out to you!
    I can only offer you a welcome to this amazing board.

    I hope you will get some feedback on what you can do and prepare yourself for.
    Please check back often, as it may be getting quieter right about now, there are many members from around North America here, plus overseas, so time zones differ, but stay close, ok?
    cat_pet_icon ((hugs)) to you both
     
  3. HollyandSpader(GA)

    HollyandSpader(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi there. I have some CRF links in my signature that might be helpful to you. My cat, Spader had CRF for about four years.

    I am off to sleep now, but wanted to post that I had some links so you could check them out in the meantime.

    Holly
     
  4. Mary & Stormy Blue

    Mary & Stormy Blue Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    One of the things that you can do, diet wise, it to switch to lo-carb, lo-phosphorous canned foods.
    For my Stormy (a diet controlled diabetic with early CRD) and his 5 civvie "siblings" that is the following foods:

    Friskies Special Diet foods:
    Beef & Liver
    Beef & Chicken
    Turkey & Giblets

    Wellness Grain Free:
    Turkey
    Chicken
    Beef & Chicken

    Evo:
    95% Beef
    95% Venison
    95% Chicken & Turkey
    EVO Cat & Kitten

    You may even be RXed medication that will be helpful for your kitty's kidneys. I am fortunate enough that Stormy is not yet that bad off (X-ing fingers that will remain the case).

    Another thing that you will likely at some point need to do is provide subQ fluids to your baby. It is not difficult to do - no more so than what you already have to do for the diabetes, except you stick a needle subQ under the skin in kitty's saddle region and then let the lactated ringers fluid run in for however much and however often you are instructed to do. For Stormy Blue that currently is 100ml every third day. Stormy also has added to the 1,000ml fluid bag 2cc of vitamin B-12 and .5cc of Vitamin B complex, so he gets a little bit of vitamins every time he gets his fluid. I always warm the bag in a big bowl of hot water before I give it to him as the stuff is COLD otherwise.

    Lactated Ringers will generally be less expensive at the pharmacy than it will be to buy it from your vet. Just get an RX from the vet for a case of 12 and take to to the pharmacy to be filled. I think that I paid about $16 for a case of 12 from Walgreens using my "family card".

    There are many, MANY sites online that sell needles and tubes/lines and few of them require an RX. Same for the liquid vitamins. I actually purchased my bottles (50cc each) at Tractor Supply for the cost of ONE vitamin spike as charged by my vet's office! I get my needles and lines from KV Vet Supply. Shop around to find the best price for what you need.

    my preferred needles:
    http://www.kvsupply.com/browse/Home/Equ ... 07/I/80066

    Disposable Intravenous Set (can be used more than once as long as sterility is maintained)
    http://www.kvsupply.com/browse/Home/Pet ... 08/I/84230

    There are MANY feline health sites (Holly knows a lot of them) which are very helpful in guiding you thru how to administer IV fluids subQ.

    Best of luck to you and your kitty.

    ~M
     
  5. Cyn and Cosmo

    Cyn and Cosmo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hello cyndi,
    I am sure you are scared, worried, and overwhelmed right now.
    one of my cats, Cosmo, is both diabetic and CRF. He eats Wellness Chicken and Turkey (as does his perfectly health littermate brother), b/c the food is low carb, low phos, and high quality protein. You'll see that there is some debate about whether a high protein diet is good for kidney kitties. Cosmo has been eating Wellness only for about 18 months, and his kidney numbers haven't changed much in that time (if they changed, they improved). When I refer to kidney numbers, I mean his USG (urine specific gravity), creatinine, and BUN. As far as I've heard (from vets, websites, etc), the USG and creat are best indicators of renal health, since BUN is highly influenced by hydration levels.

    You've found a terrific site here for treating the diabetes. Let me encourage you to google Tanya's CRF site
    for more info about chronic kidney failure/disease.

    To help summarize...
    What I did to treat Cosmo's diabetes
    1) change to an all wet/canned low carb (under 10% carbs) diet using Janet and Binky's food charts
    2) administer lantus insulin BID (2x daily) and monitor by hometesting

    ** cosmo is OTJ, meaning with the help of this board, careful monitoring, a good bit of luck, and a change of diet, he no longer needs insulin. he is considered a diet controlled diabetic**

    What I did/do to treat Cosmo's kidneys
    1) change to low phosphorus (this just meant he got fewer choices in food. we used to use the wellness fishy flavors too, but they are high in phos)
    2) administer Subcutaneous (SQ) fluids (lactated ringers solution- LRS) daily.
    3) calcitriol 2x weekly to treat the secondary hyperparathyroidism (common in kidney cats)

    hope that helps!
     
  6. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi and welcome.

    Well I have this issue too, only it's my non diabetic cat with the kidney issues. Since it's the early stages for us, what I have done is change the food for everyone to a low carb (for FD issues) and low phosphorus (for kidney issues) canned and raw food diet.

    In addition, I add a lot of water to the foods, as water is the one thing needed to help flush the kidneys.

    The low carb range needs to be 10% or less and the low phosphorus range needs to be under 250. What does that mean, you may ask. The best way to explain it is to show you Janet & Binky's food charts where she has the information all laid out. Janet & Binky's Food Chart

    Additionally, to make it a little easier for you:

    I feed the following foods that are within these ranges:

    Evo 95% - turkey/chicken
    Friskies Special Diet - turkey & giblets
    Nature's Variety - Raw food - chicken/turkey and lamb

    Also, please check out these links on CRF - they are full of very helpful information, including where and how to get supplies:

    CRF Link
     
  7. cyndi and fuzzy

    cyndi and fuzzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Good evening to all, thanks so much for the response again! to my current delima. I spent several hours going to suggested sites and am greatly appreciative! to date the vet called and said the ear bumps are lessening and now he wonders if it is from the kidneys not throut, never the less fuzzy is eating for them and he said seems a bit better today with the gum and teeth inf. He said the bun and creatin has not come down and he will call tomorrow after they check it. His bg however was good at 114,on 1.5 units lantus times two daily, he didnt have the # for six pm however, with the kidneys he said if the bun and creatin do not start to come down by tomorrow pm that maybe they will just stay that way, didnt want to ask but am assuming that means rapid kidney failure.sooo still the waiting game, but it has given me time to sit here and read lots and lots of articles. so again thanks to all who have replied to my new topic and will see what tomorrow brings. thankyou all very much, have a good nite, cyndi and fuzzy.
     
  8. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    My cat Witn was diagnosed with chronic renal failure (CRF) several years before she became diabetic. When she was diagnosed with diabetes, I changed her diet to Friskies Special Diet canned foods. She was fed all of the flavors except the Chicken & Gravy, because of the high carbs. She was on this diet for over two years and every time I took her in for her blood work, her kidney values remained stable.
     
  9. gingerand((calliope))(GA)

    gingerand((calliope))(GA) Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I'm just now dealing with this issue as well and trying to learn more. I've switched to some Friskies Special Diet foods and I've picked up a few others for variety. I'm encouraged the foods will help.
     
  10. Erimess & Sammy (GA)

    Erimess & Sammy (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Not necessarily. What are the numbers? And sometimes vets give up too easily. He may need several days on IV's. Regardless, you can still follow-up at home with subq's, which at the very least might maintain them. Subq's can help lower them, but works better if the IV's can get them down first.

    There are also other treatments. Check for other values that are abnormal. Phosphorus binders are commonly needed, as high phosphorus can make them feel awful crappy. (If he's needing IV's I suspect his phosphorus is also high.) You need to get the results of this blood work.
     
  11. cyndi and fuzzy

    cyndi and fuzzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Hi, all, I was allowed to bring fuzzy home today. The treating vet said his bun and creatin has not changed but fuz is eating and urinating fine and he saw no reason to continue the iv therepy as if by today the #s didnt come down they probably wouldnt. I asked if that meant he was in "kidney failure" he said no, that they call it kidney inaffincy, that he has probably had this for a peoiod of time and his body is compensating for it and it does not mean he will die from it in a few months or years, just need to watch kidneys and see what happens down the road, so my baby is home, does not seem to want me by him, just wants to be left alone. funny as is sleeping on the dogs couch which usually fuz does not even come in the living room by the dog. he looks so bad, both front feet are shaved and briused from the iv, but the first thing he did was go and eat some dm then a nap in the sun.They gave me someone elses insulin so had to run back and get his!!! Never ending lately. Thanks to all of you once again. cyndi and fuzzy
     
  12. Erimess & Sammy (GA)

    Erimess & Sammy (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Something is wrong here. If he needed to stay at the vet's on IV's cause of high kidney values, then he isn't "all right." The numbers are elevated for a reason and it's not going away. Vet even said the values won't come down.

    If it wasn't acute and he's probably had it for some time, then it's chronic. "Failure" is just a matter of vocabulary. Some people now prefer calling it "insufficiency" and other words. But if he's got raised kidney values, then he's got raised kidney values. And unless there's some unusual situation that I don't know anything about, it isn't going away. And if he really needed the IV's, then he isn't going to just continue on being "fine" for years. And yes, he CAN die from it in a few months or years. Especially "years." A cat with values high enough to need IV's isn't likely to live "years" without treatment, especially given the IV's didn't bring them down.

    Those values don't show as elevated in blood work until kidney function is already about 70-75% lost. Granted, the diabetes could elevate those values slightly and you can ignore that. (But would the vet do IV's for that reason?? Sounds a little wasteful, useless and money out of pocket for no reason. So that's a bit difficult to believe.)

    My aim is not to scare you and make you feel bad. They can still live years if it's treated. So my aim is to get your attention and make you realize you don't want to just ignore this like the vet is doing.

    Get the latest results from the vet. Call them and get yourself a copy of all the blood work. Post them. You need to see what is actually going on there -- do you just have an over-exuberant vet who would actually do IV's over slightly elevated numbers caused by diabetes, or are they really elevated and you need to be doing some treatments? You need to find out.
     
  13. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    ALWAYS get copies of every single test results and any info you can from your vet. I keep a folder of all my interactions with my vet for my cats, even if it was to buy a can of food.

    For the tests, you want the name of the tests done, and the detailed results that your vet received for those tests. When you have the numbers, you can go online and look up normal ranges and see for yourself.

    Get a copy of treatment given while at the vet office, including that IV, how much for how long, what food fed, what BG numbers were obtained and at what times,get it ALL.

    the vet office I use is staffed by an awesome group. The vet that Shadoe sees is so sweet and caring, but when it comes to FD, she does not know much at all. She IS more than willing to learn and loved the copy of Shadoe's ss I took with us on the last vet visit.

    When you have the info, YOU are in control. Knowledge is power.
     
  14. cyndi and fuzzy

    cyndi and fuzzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    I have to take fuzzy for a recheck on wednesday and will bring home copies of all his labs and post them if someone can tell me how. I felt that the vet was trying to reconcentrate on his teeth and gum infection and maybe like slide on the kidneys. they called me the day after i had him in for the ear,gum,teeth inf, he was given a shot of antibiotic and came home. they drew lab and that is when the next day i get a call saying to bring him rite in for iv therepy as his bun and creatin were high. I looked at the results and it had the high and lows and he was about in the middle, so they said they needed to lower the numbers. well, then on sat, two days into the three day therepy, i got a call saying to come and get him as the numbers had not gone down and at that point wouldnt. I asked if that ment he had kidney failure, comming from the old school thats the call even on people, he said they now call it insuffency, so i asked was this fatal, like soon, he said he may live for years, it just depends on how his body compensates for it. he said his body had been compensating up to now as he showed me no signs of any problems till he got the ear sores. His sugar is good, tonite it was 113 . so he is doing well with the bs. giving half unit of lantus am and pm... fuzzy is still worn out, hate to take him in again wed, he is so tired. he only urinates once a day but a large amount, thats why i was checking his sugar as thout his sugar was high due to large urine, but now realize it was prob large as he only goes once a day... he is still in the living room which is not like him but wisconsin is cold rite now!!!he sleeps and then every six hours or so he meows and looks at me and i say treat and the ears perck up. this am he finally ate about three fourths can of beef fancyfiest... tonite he had about three tablespoons of the same, he is drinking very little water which has me concerned, before his stay at the vets he was drinking alot. I will get the results should i start a new topic on how to post??? thanks again for all of you being sharp enough to point these things out to me. i am spending all the time i can with him as am fearful he wont be here long. I have the same bad luck with doctors!! nite, cyndi and fuzzy
     
  15. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    If I were you, Cindy, I would get the lab results from the vets and post here, before taking him back to the vet. It sound like you are leaning toward the idea that the vet isn't really helping and is stressing Fuzzy out.

    (You can always put off the vet. You're not feeling well, etc..... I do believe in little white lies... Or you can be upfront and say you would like to get a second opinion.) This is assuming you are in a big enough time to have a second vet. And that you want to consider changing.

    As you have seen, there are lots of cats here with kidney issues being treated successfully. If you want to include your city and state in your new post, maybe someone will have a vet suggestion for you. Do post about your urination concerns; that problem can go south fast. The only idea I have is to add water to the food to increase liquid intake, but I know that is only a short term fix.
     
  16. cyndi and fuzzy

    cyndi and fuzzy Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    I just wanted to let those of you who gave me your info on sub q fluids and such with the kidney trouble fuzzy had, a update, there wont be much else to write about, i will be busy careing for my fuzzy until its his time. I had a new vet come today, she is a housecall vet, very good idea,althou my cat was takeing up residence in a laundry basket, and she gently went to pet him and he hissed and bit her, that he has never done. He had a good day yest, has now returned to the upper level of the house, but still wont go into my bedroom which is so strange, anyway he eats all morning, small amounts at a time, and then looked at the dog on the couch and i guess he wanted a place to claim and it ended up being my laundry basket with foot sox still in the bottom, he then slept from eleeven am to four pm, as did i, was so nice to have him next to me even if in a basket.......He does have kidney failure, but unlike the other vet, she is starting me wed on subq fluid. also a med for his kidneys which i cant remember the name. His mouth is still very infected, the antibiotic the other vet gave him was not her first choice for his condition as she says we need to get the inf under control, been a month now that he has been ill with it, but also have to do what we can for the kidneys, so he is now on another antibiotic for ten days, after examining him she does not feel he could be put under anasthesia and have the dental work done,factoring his age, kidneys, and diabetes. so the plan is to treat the dental inf. till its gone and then observe and will be put back on antib if infected again, she said its a unfortunate ageing process with a combo of problems, when she looked at the labs from the other vet, she honestly said she has never seen a cat with that high a number and still be alive. His BUN on jan 6 was(88) and his creatin was 3.5, o january 8, his BUN was 76 and creatin 4.0. she comes to your home and does euthenasia if requested and also gave me name of another female vet close by that comes to the home for that also, I really liked her she explained things, let me ask questions and even gave me copy of her history report for today in case i needed to take fuz to a vet hospital. So I will learn the fluid therepy, keep up with the diabetes, and love him for each day he is with me. she said he is not in pain with the kidneys, i have him hydrated so he pees four to five times a day, thats cause he cant take in any food thats not babyfood consistancy, but of course he is not feeling well with the teeth. she verified that most vets includeing her test bg with a human machine not an expensive Abbott one. said the cat monitors have just come on the market in the last year so is still a controversy with vets as to whether or not they are that necessary vs the human monitor. I know some of you asked me to post the lab numbers so wanted to follow throu with that.and i will refer to the needle and kit site for fluid therepy one of you were so kind to give me. I am sorry i used the 911 sticker, guess we all have to decide what is an emergency to us, his numbers are going up a bit, not over 200 but not at 110 either.Have been makeing sure i take lots of pix of him and video,fyi the january cat fancy magazine has some good infor in it. got it because i saw it had a dental story in it and found it very informative. it would be worth your wild to purchase, talks about this gum tooth disease that starts with a lesion under the tooth and eats it from the bottom out, so when fuz lost that tooth, there were no roots left. claimed 80% of cats over eight years of age will get at least one lesion...... also an article on where does your cat go when he dies, was a story of all different faiths and theologins and their beliefs, i finally found out where the saying of the rainbow bridge came to be. soooo thanks to all of you, i dont know how long these posts are posted so need to get the links out of the responses. Love your furbabies, cyndi and fuzzy
     
  17. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Cyndi, I just had one of my civies dx'd with CRF. Actually, front porch kitty that showed up in 07, finally decided to stay around in 08, spent winter in an igloo with heated discs, etc. Rifht before the bitter cold came I was able to get her into my 2 1/2 car garage which is heated. About 2 weeks later I took her in to the vet. Her bun was 99 and her creat was, if I remember correctly, was 4.5. Her urine is totally diluted, her thyroid is high end of normal. We did not stress her by trying to get urine but I got some at home and tested with my strips. Her USG was 1.000, nothing lower on the strip. Her hemoglobin was maxed out. I forgot, her phos on the blood work was also extremely high. She weight 5.5 and vet thinks in her teens.

    Skip ahead.....she is on antibiotic to be on the safe side because I also saw some pink in her urine. She is on Pepcid A/D which has made a tremendous difference in her appetite. A lot of kidney kitties can get upset tummies. She is also on a generic, tastless phosphate binder, just mix it in her food. Her blood pressure was questionable as well as heart so off to the cardiologist. Her heart is okay but a little high in blood pressure so she is on a med for that and will be rechecked in a week. She has gained 9 ounces :D We will not start fluids till we know for sure about her blood pressure and I will also be doing a recheck on her blood.

    There are things you can do to lower phosphorous levels, maintain if not improve creat levels, improve appetite, etc. Fuzzy has workable values that may even improve and I would do everything possible to work with Fuzzy. Pepcid A/C, phosphorous binders if phos if high, make sure blood pressure is good, thyroid is good, and have the HCT also checked. Fluids definitely but maybe only a start of 2 or 3 times a week. Too much at one time can overload the heart so it does help to know how Fuzzy's heart is.

    Your last post sounded like you feel defeated as to what you can do to help Fuzzy. There is so much and so many people that can help you with any questions you may have.

    My little B.K. is just a little, old black kitty that showed up one day but since bringing her in and finding out all that is going on and starting meds......she has improved so much in movement, eating, attitude, etc.
     
  18. Erimess & Sammy (GA)

    Erimess & Sammy (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    First off, could you please use some paragraphs. It's so very difficult to follow long posts without some paragraphs.

    Just doing antibiotics is a temporary fix, most likely. I would definitely look into having the dental done at some point when you feel he's more up to it. And I do believe that will be possible at some point, unless there's something going on that I can't tell from your posts.

    These are the values that caused a vet to put him on IV's for 3 days?? I checked your other posts looking for dates and it looks to me like Jan 7 is when they called & said to bring him in cause of his kidney values. So it looks to me like Jan 6 is the original pre-fluid numbers they saw that made them have you come in.

    Sigh. These aren't that high, relatively speaking of course. You really didn't need to take him in for IV's for this. And you've got another vet saying she's never seen a cat with numbers "this high" and still be alive??? Big red flag. I see numbers like this all the time -- an that's just the people who come online seeking help. I've seen numbers way higher than this and have them survive, at least for a while. I'm not sure why she's missing out so much. I don't know if it's cause her clients just don't treat so they don't live for long after this, or if she doesn't know how to treat or what. That's incredible she's never seen a cat survive on these numbers.

    Wow. OK, sorry, I'm still just flabbergasted.

    It is a good idea to check for heart stuff prior to starting fluids, but you can do subq's at home. Over time you can probably get those values down even further. It's possible those are contributing to him feeling bad, but this didn't happen overnight. Getting those numbers down will help. Also, what was his phosphorus, potassium, HCT, calcium... and anything else out of range? High phosphorus can make them feel pretty lousy. But do pay attention to what Hope said. You can give tasteless powered phosphorus binders. And the tummy acid is common which is why we do Pepcid AC. Any combination of this stuff could be contributing to him not eating, but that also may have a great deal to do with the dental issues.

    But really, this isn't a dire situation from what I can see. There's definitely stuff you can be doing.

    My Pounce had his first dental when he was 8, just last year, and they already took 4 teeth out. So yes it's common. Sammy had all his teeth and most roots extracted when he was about 12. (So much for dry food cleaning teeth.) The difference now is that I'm making sure the vet stays on top of the dental stuff and getting that taken care of as soon as it's necessary. It kind of got "let go" with Sammy.

    As for the food issue you are fighting with yourself over -- right now he is not eating very well so I would give him whatever he will eat. Fancy Feast is higher in phosphorus which isn't great for the kidney issues, but you can get those binders. (I don't know his phosphorus values or whether that is necessary. Some people like doing the binders as a sort of preventive. I prefer staying away from more meds if the values are low. Different opinions of course.) Once he is feeling better you can worry a bit more about a more appropriate diet. I'm not into the prescription renal diets and they aren't good quality. If he'll eat Wellness, that's a commonly used food for the diabetes/CRF combination, especially the turkey & chicken. Dump the dry -- that isn't good for any cat, but especially a no-no for a kidney kitty. Giving fluids and feeding dry food is rather counter-productive. And DM isn't the greatest quality. There's no reason on earth to have to get a prescription food for diabetes. That's just a more cat-appropriate diet, and why should you need a prescription to feed a cat-appropriate diet?? There are much better foods out there at the pet shops that are cheaper. But right now, I think you just need to get food in him. Even if the food isn't the best choice... well, not eating isn't going to keep him alive. In fact, as much as I hate prescription foods, if he'll eat the DM, it's better than not eating.

    Lactulose works well for constipation. Some people have noticed glucose issues with that but I never did. The fluids will help with that as well.

    You do sound a bit resigned. Please don't be. I think the vets are making you feel like this is much worse than it is. The whole 3-day-stay-on-IV thing made me assume his numbers were much higher.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page