Kitty 6/14

Good Morning!

I hope everyone had a nice peaceful evening last night!!!!!

Not much here-- I got a few mid cycle checks in last night for Sue! It looks like Kitty had the perfect nadir last night dropping to 58 at +7-- before the vet filled her up on high carb Purina one canned and dry cat food--- the vet proudly has increased her bg to 519 this morning at +11.

I just called the vet-- while I am glad she quit throwing up and ate--- why would they give her that junk food?

I am getting ready to go rescue her!


So, she will be above 600 this morning-- do I shoot 4.25?



A BIG Thank You to everyone for holding my hand last night. Maybe one day I can repay the kindness to you--

Kim and Super Sweet Kitty (Dry Purina One?!)

 

It's amazing how stupid they are! So glad Kitty is better! I thought of you every time I woke up last night....which was often. :smile: Any idea why all the throwing up? That was worrying me.

 

Oh Kim, I am so sorry I wasn't here last night. Poor Kitty! Dry Purina!?!? I am convinced that is what made Asher diabetic. Jeebus ! Hopefully you got the right meds now and there will be no more throwing up. Sending you and Kitty some healing vibes today.
(((((big hugs)))))

 

So glad Kitty is feeling better. Did you decide what to shoot? I know she's high, but I'm a little leary of you shooting 4.25 u's. Will anyone be home with her today?

 

I just got home with her.

The ER vet gave her a cerenia (something like that) shot for nausea at 12 pm-- it lasts 24 hours. She still is not right this morning--she is not throwing up, but she is off.

I guess my next plan of action is to take her to her regular vet. The vet she sees is off today-- so we will have to see another one. (Ugh)

The vet gave nothing for pain and didn't change her antibiotic-- I am not sure what the $327 covered.

About one more day of this and we are heading to the vet school at NCSU, to see someone that might can help her.

I shot 4 units.

 

I am so sorry you had a hard night last night. I missed it all. (Grandkids are visiting - no time for the computer.)

Yes, I would insist on pain meds. (Ask him if he would have a bone graft and no long term pain meds!)

You can get her back to a normal pattern of bgs. We just need to get the dry food cleared out of her system, get her pain and antibiotic meds on board and start with a clean slate.

I am sure :mrgreen: you are doing the breathing thing and looking forward to that wine thing later this pm.

Hang in there. You are doing a great job for Miss Kitty.

 

Hey Sue, I got you a lot of mid cycle test in !!!!!

I thought you would be proud of me!

 

I so am! And you were rewarded with some great midcycle numbers! Hope we get to see those again soon.

 

I just talked to the"substitute" vet.

I asked for the oral cerenia mentioned here---- she said it is not labeled for cats and she was not comfortable giving it to me. So, no nausea meds. This is the same vet office that wanted to give Kitty metacam last fall-- that surely isn't labeled for cats.

So, should I just go get pepcid. My vet tech friend has some oral cerenia that I can get-- what would be the cerenia dose for a 9.4 lb cat?

I am going to get the probiotics now.

She told me we could go to injectable naxal in lieu of the clyndamycin. What do y'all think?

Thanks!

 

No advice on the meds, maybe ask on health?

 

Whew, I'm glad you got her home.

Once she clears this bounce you will want to reduce your dose. "Sue" wants you to get some mid cycle tests in today too.

I don't know about the meds, but I would pick up some Pepcid to have on hand just in case and replenish your medium and high carb foods, write the carb % on top of the can with a magic marker to take the guess work out of what you're feeding in an emergency.

You must be exhausted. You did a great job last night. I wish the ER Vet could have been more helpful.

 

Robin-- thanks for all the help last night!

How often do you think Sue would want me to test her today?

I am working, in and out etc. checking on her-- I can test pretty much anytime.

I have already restocked the supplies this am.

 

Hi Kim, So glad to hear Kitty is home and not vomiting! Did you clean the whole house last night? Poor thing, you must be exhaused.

I'm wondering - those numbers you were reporting from the ER last night - were they taken with a human meter, Alpha Trak, iPet, or their in-house Istat machine? (I recall you said you didn't bring your meter with you.) What I'm wondering is, the 88 at +5.5 on a pet meter or machine is a great number but a 58 at +7 on a pet meter or machine technically is a hypo number. So in their view, she may be been in hypo hence the Purina One. But still that was way overkill on the food. Just throwing this out there for thoughts...

Yeah, my vet only gave Harley one Cerenia injection because it's considered off-label use in cats as well. It's only supposed to be used for 5 days because it builds up in the system. But I insisted I had to have something. When she refused I took him to another vet who would prescribe anti-nausea meds. :twisted: Dont' know if that's an option for you or not.

How about asking about oral or injectible Zofram (ondansetron)? Or injectible Anzemet (dolasetron? These are both human anti-nausea drugs used for chemotherapy patients. If you can get them, IMHO I'd ask for the injectibles because that way you know they got in the cat and there is less chance of them tasting them and vomiting them back up again.

Sorry I have no experience with the A/Bs Harley tolerated his Clavamox very well and that's the only A/B I've ever given a cat.

Here's hoping Miss Kitty feels better soon!

 

Thanks for the info Laura and the help last night!

I am sure the +7 was on an alpha trac-- but, that vet was PROUD of the 500+ this morning. I think she would have fed the Purina dry on a 200 reading.

I am going home to test her shortly to see what is going on.

Thanks again!

 

Hi Kim,

I think Sue would want you to start with a +3 and go from there.

 

amps > 500 (Hi)
+ 4. 258
+ 6 344


At least a 50 percent drop in 4 hours

Nadir normally at + 8

 

Wow! Steep drop but nicer looking number. Definitely would get a number around +6

 

Oh brother, that does sound bad. Clearly someone in need of education. In her mind she probably thinks she saved Kitty from hypo. So for her it was a good day. :YMSIGH:

You're welcome Kim and I hope you are able to get some answers on the A/B and meds. really soon. Sorry, I don't know the dosing for Cerenia tabs as I've never used them.

EDIT: Wow, nice +4. Not unusual when clearing a food induced bounce. Good luck today!

 

From the drop this morning and last night's event, I think the 4 units I have been shooting is too much. Maybe this is due to the antibiotics clearing the infections or the dental, but I have never seen drops like this. She still does not feel well. She is on the bed stretched out--maybe resting, maybe lethargic--I don't know.

I am trying to get up with my regular vet. No luck so far.

 

She's coming off her carb high and they can be more sensative to the insulin after going low.

So before your next shot lets get some discussion going with Sue and anyone else who wants to help on what your next dose should be. It's definately not going to be 4 units.

You've had the perfect storm, dental, AB's for UTI, vomiting up her food, so now you need a new plan for Kitty.

 

Don't know if I have posted this--but, they did a urinalysis at the ER and her UTI has cleared. I don't know if that will effect any dosing decisions--but, I want to throw it out there.

One of the biggest problems right now is she doesn't want to eat--at least not for me!

On the 4 units and other doses I have been giving--you could count on two cans of FF low carb each cycle. Now, even if you take away the possibility of her throwing it up--I am lucky to get a half a can in her.

 

I am curious to see what her nadir will be today. My guess is you will be dropping back to at least 3.5u for now, but we'll see what today's cycle gives you. I can't believe the ER vet let her gorge on the dry food like that and then be proud of the 500 reading! At least you got a shot of anti-nausea meds though. That probably helped the most.

Good thing is she is coming down off that carb high pretty quickly. I'd probably test every 2 to 3 hours today because you can throw all previous patterns out the window now :lol:

 

good morning! glad to see you took her in. that cerenia shot was highly needed i think. fwiw, while i desperately hope the vet knows proper nutrition for a diabetic, perhaps they fed what they fed because Kitty was interested in it and eating something is better than nothing. and if she kept it down, even better.

also, she may be a bit off just due to the ordeal. i'm sure she didn't sleep much or well at the hospital and i'd compare what she's been thru to us having the 24 hour flu so maybe she needs to rest today.

 

have you tried tuna juice on the food or freeze dried chicken treats? (the ones you get at petsmart)

 

I have tried everything=-- including Tuna. I bought a roasted chicken from the deli--nope to that too. She did eat about 1/4 can of FF when she came home.

Trust me the vet knew no better--in fact, the canned food was for an auto immune cat in the cage next to Kitty. When she wouldn't eat it the vet said she gave the rest to Kitty. Now, I don't have time to go there--but, imagine how that made me feel.

 

Wow-what a way to get your house clean! :mrgreen: hope you have some time to rest today.
She seems to be getting over the high carbs very quickly.when planning the next dose you need to keep in mind that the anti-nausea shot will be wearing off. Am hoping you can get your regular vet to discuss how to deal with the nausea (change antibiotic, anti-nausea meds, etc ) so you don't have to be concerned about a repeat performance. (there should be a legal limit on how much vomit a person has to clean per week). So my wish for the day--some rest for you, decent numbers for kitty, and a vet who talks sense about dealing with the nausea and also pain meds. Paws crossed!

 

Hummm and they get paid big bucks for that kind of critical thinking.

 

Just talked to my normal vet.

She suggests stopping the ab to let her GI have a break-- she said we can switch abs, though Kitty is on the best one for the bone infection. She said she will give me bupe if I want it also. She wants me to give her an additional 100 mls of sub qs today.


She will be back in town in a couple of hours and told me to call her and let her know what drugs I wanted.

So, what do we want?

 

I had a lot if trouble getting Squamee to eat. I made a smelly liver concoction from a recipe on this site that was supposed to be foolproof, and she ate it once! Fortiflora, the probiotic, sprinkled on food, worked for awhile.
When nothing else worked, I would resort to the gravy from higher carb cans, and she was more likely to eat that.
I bought the fort flora on line, but if you want it faster, maybe your vet has some or knows where you could get it. (I always take probiotics myself when I am on antibiotics).

 

When she refuses food, how is she doing it? Is she turning her head away, sniffing and walking away, licking her lips and walking away? Looking like she's going to barf?

Does she like dairy products? Some plain Greek yogurt might help sooth the tummy plus it has cultures in it. Another thing to try is any meat flavor 2nd stage Gerber or Beechnut baby food. Gerber is meat with cornstarch, and Beechnut is meat and water. That might tempt her tummy plus they are already partially digested. If she won't eat it on her own, you can dilute it with water a little bit and use your syringe and syringe feed these to her if necessary. I think the flavors are chicken, turkey, ham (never tried that one) beef, veal or lamb - depending what's available in your area. Each jar is between 80-100 calories.

Just saw you heard from your vet. Most excellent that she'll give you drugs! :mrgreen:

 

Kim, I have FortiFlora I can send - PM me if you want some.

 

I think definitely Bupe for the pain meds. I don't have any suggestions for a different antibiotic though.

 

Sorry, I don't know what to say about drugs. Squamee had bupe after dental and that seemed fine, but that was my only experience. Does the vet have a recommendation?
Oh, iforgot to mention, Squamee was more likely to eat if I mixed a little warm or even hot water in her food. Warming it in the microwave never worked, but warm water did. Also Kraft grated Parmesan cheese on top of food was one of the most successful things.

 

i'd get some buprenorphine, and either some cerenia and/or zofram. whether you'll need it all or not, who knows but hey, while you can get your hands on it, i say take advantage of it and if you don't use it now, you'll have it for later if need be.

as far as the antibiotics go, i'm not sure on that one.

 

Definately get the Bupe, and I'd have a go at this vet for the anti nausea meds, insist, even if they are off label for cats, it works. Fortaflora works for some to stimulate the appetite, see if they will give you a sample to try.

 

She will smell the canned food and even lick it some- but, she isn't interested in "eating it".

She is grooming herself--

I checked for Ketones this morning and they were negative.

I am in my office now--but, getting ready to go back home and check on her.

I bought some yougurt this morning--does anyone think I should try that?

I picked up some probiotics from the "substitute vet" this morning--my normal vet said don't give them. She doesn't think her system was ready for that. I just wish I could get two vets to agree on something.

 

I wonder if the Cerenia shot can be drawn and held until needed. If so, since it is labeled for cats, maybe she will let me get a dose of that to inject if needed.

She acts like she feels bad.

 

Yay for no ketones. I see no harm in trying a little yoghurt. Just like a person with an upset stomach, I would only give small amounts to see what she can tolerate. It's so frustrating when the vets disagree. I never thought of probiotics as causing upset stomach ( and yoghurt has probiotics in it if it contains active cultures). But it will drive you crazy to listen to different vets, so I would be inclined to pick the one I trust more and follow that advice for a bit.

 

Good that she wants to eat, she's trying, but she feels bad so she can't. Perhaps starting with 2.5mg Pepcid, and 20-30 minutes later followed by yogurt in little bits like Judy says might help sooth the tummy a bit. Harley didn't like yogurt but he ate some cottage cheese - even in the midst of his worst p-flare.

I'm with Cindy, get the bupe, cerenia and zofram. They should be able to draw and sell you pre-filled syringes of cerenia. That's how I get my bupe and anzemet.

 

I have a good relationship with my normal vet--hence, I have her cell number, she meets me after hours, gives me drugs etc.... BUT, she has done some very questionable things in Kitty's treatment.

She sent me home with Metacam last spring for her arthritis. Well, the first thing I did was google Metacam-- and the first hit literally was a webpage that read "metacam kills cats". So, needless to say I didn't give it to her.

She also is the vet that initially had me start the Prozinc on once a day dosing. I continually questioned this, but....and the rest is history...Kitty developed DKA.

So the options are limited---one I don't trust but can get drugs from or one I can't get drugs from and don't know! And, then there is the one that told me last week to up Kitty to 5 units. eenie meenie miney moe!!!

 

Tell me one more time-- what is the Zofram?

 

angry(2)_cat I hate to suggest this when you must be exhausted, but it sounds like you need a new vet! I can certainly see why you don't trust the judgement of the cooperative one! Oh how frustrating!

 

:dizcat

PS, my Harley loves yogurt.

 

zofram is ondansetron. it's anti-nausea also. a really awesome anti-nausea. we used it on our late Spazzie when she was getting chemotherapy. it's a bit pricey though if i remember correctly so as long as you get one of the two, cerenia or zofram, you should be ok i would think

 

+6 344

Also ate 1/2 can of FF-- that is all I gave-- I don't want to overdo it

So, I hope she keeps the food down!

What does the high + 6 mean?

 

Maybe she is reacting to the steep drop from this morning. But her system must be so out of whack right now, it seems even more impossible than usual to know.

 

Glad she ate. How long ago was the anti nausea shot and when is it supposed to wear off? Paws crossed she keeps that food down!

 

12 hours ago

 

Kim,
That's all any of my cats eat at one time, of course then they come back for more. Maybe with her BG going lower she won't eat as much as before. I know there are other issues going on right now though also. I hope she doesn't start the vomiting again. Paws crossed!

 

Hi Kim and a big hi to Kitty! (I've been at school .... ) I used Zofran for Payne during her first DKA and it worked really well. The ER people sounded like they did more harm than good .... sometimes it's hard to know what to do but it was the safe call. You and Kitty must be really exhausted! as long as she's eating a little, I wouldn't worry too much but I would get her the anti-nausea drugs and Bupe.

AND SAY YAH! FOR NO KETONES!! she is a little thing and she's been through a lot but not dealing with ketones is important. She will be running high today, check as often as you can but I think her #'s will be off for a few days, so I would try and be conservative with dose to keep the rebound minimal. Small meals, frequently but the Zofran works. Nancy

 

Yeah Kitty! Nom nom nom; noms are good. Makes Kitty feel better and Mommy less worried.

Yeah, Zofram is pricey but works really well. There's injectible or pills. The pills come in 8mg or 4mg dose. You want the 4mg dose - and I'm trying to get to my yahoo.IBD.groups to find out the typical dosage, but my work IT dept is blocking it. Grrrr. I just remember them telling someone who was getting started with Zofram that they wanted the 4mg dose pills - easier to cut as the typical dosage was somewhere around 1 to 2 mg which would be either 1/2 or 1/4 of a pill. Just imagine trying to cut an 8mg pill into 1/8! Not going to work.

If you get pills they are bitter so you'd want to also wrap them well in a pill pocket or a gelcap so that Kitty doesn't taste them. Big mistake I made with Harley was trying a naked pill. Froth, foam, drool, and vomit were the result. So either cover it up really well or skip the headache and go injectible.

 

Geez, I get a cold and go to bed early and see this the next day. So sorry Kitty hasn't been well! Ondansetron is a great anti-nausea drug, so if nausea is the problem it should work. Normal dose is 1/4 of a 4 mg tablet twice per day for most cats. If the nausea isn't controlled with that, you can use injectable dolastron (anzemet) as someone else suggested. That is stronger and works great, but it stings, so put in the fridge if you switch to that. A colder temp seems to take the sting down a few notches.

Have you figured out what was causing the vomiting?

 

Laura, so the Zofram is a "people" drug? Will I need a script for it-- or will my vet have it?

 

I'm on a conference call at work. I sure hope they don't need a lot of input from me! I am scared I will blurt...what should I shoot tonight!

 

Wendy will have to chime in here as I haven't bought any recently, but it's a people drug and I think you'll either need a script to take to a pharmacy or your vet can call one in to a pharmacy of your choice. I had to get mine from a local pharmacy.

 

LOL! And then they'll ask what and you'll say - "The cat, of course."

 

Yes, it is a people drug. The generic "ondanstron" is MUCH cheaper, so make sure you get that rather than the brand name. Generics can be gotten for about $1 per pill. They are TINY, so you have to cut them into quarters and it isn't easy, so hope you have a good pill splitter. If you can't find the tablets there is an injectible form but it stings, so store it in the fridge. Tabriz always used to give me a look like "why are you giving me that nasty stinging stuff?" before I used the fridge trick. It still stings a little, but I didn't get the flinch I got with it warm. Anzemet is also stingy.

Not sure where you can buy it. My vet gets it for me. I did price Walmart and it was astronomical. Walgreens I think had a better price, or maybe it was CVS. Call around because I found the pricing to be very bizarre for it. I was glad my vet found a source for the generic at a reasonable price.

 

At least you are saying "what" should I shoot, not "who"!

 

ohmygod_smile They waited til she was past peak and gave her HC? Dopes. Guess they give candy to hyperactive children too. :roll:

Bix was on oral Cerenia briefly - it worked really well for vomiting only for unknown reasons he stopped eating while on it. As soon as I stopped it he started eating again, and magically the nausea/vomiting didn't come back. Weird. We got a 4 or 5 pack with individually wrapped pink-ish pills - they had me break them in half (scored) and then it was 1/2 tab, hmmmm, once a day? I don't recall the dosage though, so I definitely wouldn't give her any unless you can get definitive info. Could come in different doses, I just don't know. It's only short term usage though (but hopefully that's all she needs anyhow).

For A/B nausea typically just giving them with food is all you need in my experience. For diarrhea, I have had a lot of success with OTC acidopholus. You can buy it from any drugstrore, just be sure to get the capsules, then you can open it up and sprinkle some on food. I used to give it 2x/day, and gave maybe 1/2 capsule at 1st - if that fixed the problem then I'd do a smaller amount, just whatever seemed to keep things under control. You can also try FortiFlora, that is designed for cats, though I think plain acidopholus is fine regardless.

Dopey ER, they should be embarrassed! Did they actually do anything productive? ohmygod_smile