Lantus vs Vetsulin

I had/have two kitty litter mates approx. 12 years old. The male developed diabetes two years and was finally let go in a painful goodbye. Two months after his leaving, his sister (litter mate) developed diabetes. She is under control but had her first glysemic attack last week. She was successfully pulled out of it at the Vet's and now doing as usual. But as you all know, as a diabetic kitty, only faces a downward spiral and eventual death.

My question is why does my Vet only use/Rx Lantus instead of Vetsulin? I believe in him and his judgment but after endless Googling, have not been able to discover why one is preferred to the other. Yes, there is a gigantic price difference - Lantus is nearly a hundred dollars higher than Vetsulin.

Has anyone out there used both types of insulin and with what results.

JEF~H

 

Hi Jeff

I'm going to address something else first before your question...diabetes cats do NOT need to face an endless spiral down towards death! Exactly the opposite! From this statement I'm guessing that you do not test at home? If you did, you'd know that diabetes is totally manageable.

Now, as for lantus vs vetsulin, what does your vet say? Because lantus and vetsulin are completely diferent in how they are designed to act. Vetsulin is a combo of a short and intermediate insulin and kicks in fairly quickly and doesn't last 12 hours, whereas lantus is much gentler in how it kicks in and lasts longer.

For more information, please read the petdiabetes wiki which is at http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Perhaps we can help you manage your girl's diabetes better so that she lives a long and happy life...please consider telling us more about her and you

Jen

 

hi there,
I'm sorry for the loss of one of ur cats.

Feline diabetes,however, is not a death sentence.
With the proper low carb wet food diet, home testing and a good choice of insulin, with careful monitoring, and not to mention support and guidance from a board such as this one, many cats have gone into remission and live long healthy lives.
As well, many cats stay on insulin for a long time living a happier and healthier life.

As for Vetsulin, you may want to read this:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=311

Lantus, Levemir, PZI and Humulin N are other choices and alternatives to Vetsulin.
Yes, some are more expensive than Vetsulin, but they can also be a far better choice to manage feline diabetes.

You also need to take into consideration, many vets are not up to date on how to treat feline diabetes.

As an example, when my cat was DX'ed, my vet lectured me that "one day I will come home and find my cat dead" - it was devastating to hear this coming from a vet....well, after 2 months on Caninsulin (the Canadian version of Vetsulin) and a roller-coaster ride...I switched to Lantus....5 months later, after 3 months on Lantus, my cat is happy, healthy and in remission (off the juice) all thanks to this support group Feline Diabetes Members Board.


Others will be along to offer more insight to this.

 

WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.

 

Well, after a series of adverse events and in consultation with the FDA, the manufacturer of Vetsulin has decided that it will no longer make Vetsulin available in the US, and has sent notices to vets telling them that they should not start new patients on Vetsulin and should transition patients on Vetsulin to another insulin. That's probably a big reason your vet won't do Vetsulin.

Lantus (glargine) has been used for several years now, and is showing a lot of good results for a lot of cats. If I was looking to transition to a different insulin from PZI, Lantus would be one of my top choices.

I will say that usually we have the opposite problem: vets who want to use Vetsulin instead of Lantus

-- Jean and her Gwyn

 

Also, I really want to put in a word about cost of insulin. It's really not such a factor as it seems, when you consider how long it lasts.

If you pay $130 for 5 little penfill cartridges of Lantus, and give, say, 2 units a day (about average), keeping it all refrigerated, you will go through each cartridge in 300/2=150 days, or 5 months.

But there are five of them!

This comes out to about 18 cents a day.

By contrast, cat litter consumption roughly triples for a poorly-treated diabetic cat versus a well-treated one. If you buy one bag every two weeks of kitty litter at, say, $7 a bag, and now you have to buy three because you're using an insulin that doesn't give 12-hour coverage, you're paying an extra $7 a week or $1 a day for kitty litter.

And yet I don't hear anyone complaining about kitty litter costs.

The costs of caring properly for a diabetic cat are, in rough order of daily cost:

1. Test strips
2. More expensive food
3. Insulin

Litter becomes the biggest one if numbers 1, 2, and 3 above are not properly followed and the cat remains unregulated.

 

P.S. Jock is as healthy now as he was before he had diabetes. He is entirely free of side effects, his sympoms are not in a 'death spiral', he is a happy healthy 13-year-old cat.

The 'your cat will be dead' and 'death spiral' messages from your vet apply only to cats whose owners don't take the trouble to research the facts and do the right things. It is very very treatable.

 

Are you kidding me?! We just starte vetsulin yesterday, ugh. Doesn't look like it's the best option anyways, but still. Question #105 for the vet.

 

Here's the FDA warning: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/newsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm188752.htm

Here's the post on the manufacturer's website: http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/Vet_ProductAlert.aspx

Unless you are in a rural area my opinion is that your vet is irresponsible for not knowing this.

 

> Here's the post on the manufacturer's website:
> http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/Vet_ProductAlert.aspx

Thanks, Sherri! I went looking for this for her and couldn't find it. Was starting to think I'd hallucinated that whole "don't start newbies on Vetsulin" bit.

 

Definitely NOT rural. :-x

 

You may also want to be aware of the following.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... /-1/NEWS40

http://kergerlaw.com/News.aspx

 

I am not quite sure where one of the calculations above said that Lantus is $0.18 a day if you use two units twice a day. A pen last about 30 to 45 days and the cost for 5 pens is about $450. The pen which many people don't realize, must be primed and use two units each time twice a day therefore wasting four units a day. The cost of a pen lasting about 30 days therefore cost about $3 per day not $0.18

 

You are replying to a thread that is 8 years old. BTW you can order 5 pens from Marks Marine pharmacy in Canada for $150.

 

Thanks... I had one vet giving me a hard time to give me a prescription for Canada last time I checked at Mark's Marine it is $186 plus shipping about $200 but it still will be about $1.50 a day but not $0.18
Thanks for your reply...In USA is approx $450 for 5 pens.
I was researching the difference before between Lantus pens which I use and vetsulin which I heard about which neighbor is using for her cat. When I went to compared them I came up on this site. I had a cats about 5 years ago that was diabetic and took Humulin N insulin for
7 1/2years . There was no Lantus pen at that time. I was just surprised when I have been giving the Lantus how much insulin has increased since my last diabetic cat. Thanks again!

 

The lantus pens will usually last until the last drop in the pen if cared for properly. A vial will last 4-6 months (Not the 28 days that pharmacists will tell you)

5 pens is 1500 units ($164.99 at Marks, + $25 shipping= $189.99)

$189.99 divided by 1500 units is .1266 cents per unit.....so a cat on 2 unit2 twice a day would cost about .50 cents per day

A vial is 1000 units ($110.99 + $25 shipping= $135.99)

$135.99 divided by 1000 units is .136 cents per unit

 

I had it calculated before but at the moment I have a few things going on and not going to go back through my calculations but I know Two-thirds of the pen is wasted just to prime the pen.
From my previous experience I will not use insulin after 3 months. The way I am using my pain now it lasts about 45 days

 

We don't use the special needles that go with the pens....We use regular insulin syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen so we don't waste any with priming.

 

In that case, why don't you just get the vile? When I calculated it previously it came out to be about the same price and equivalent units because I did consider the waste when I did my calculations. Your method is interesting....

 

Because as soon as you puncture the vial, the "clock" starts.....a cat on 2 units twice a day would take 250 days to use 1000 units. Most of the time, it's going to start to lose efficacy at 4-6 months and you end up throwing a lot of it away.

The pens only hold 300 units each, so each pen would only last that same cat 75 days....and the other 4 pens stay safely in the refrigerator and the "clock" doesn't start on them until punctured.

Also, if you drop the vial, it's going to break and you lose everything. The pens can take a lot more punishment without breaking

 

Clock also starts on the pen when you puncture with syringe - correct? I give one unit in the morning and 1 unit 12 hours later. At that rate it would be 150 days which would be way past a safe date to use it.

 

My cat that was diabetic for 7 1/2 years that Ihad at one time went into remission for 6 months but then he was diabetic again. This time a cat I was fostering from the shelter went into remission from October until about January when she was on the high end of normal blood sugar range again but since she had some noticeable small issues it was decided to put her back on insulin after she was in remission about 2 + months. Everything just has to be monitored pretty closely. I noticed significant changes when her blood sugar dropped and had it checked to see if she was in remission which she was . Her blood sugar had dropped to the low end before it got dangerous but close. She's on a strict diet and I feed her separately than my other cats that are not diabetic to ensure she gets the correct amount of special food.

 

Most of us get 4-6 months out of a pen before it starts to lose efficacy. We test enough around here that if our cats numbers start to go up without any other reason, we start to suspect the insulin, no matter how old it is.

Even on 1 unit and only using it for 3 months, you're going to throw a lot less away than you would using a vial.

The box of pens is good until 1. each pen is punctured or 2. the expiration date (usually at least 2 years away)