? Lily- AMPS 151 no shot

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...s-30mins-148-1-59-2-65-3.154308/#post-1627195

So I have tried to shoot 0.2. Whether it is 0.2 I don't know but we shall see if anything actually went in when I get a +1.5. BG high I would assume due to all of the carbing I did last night. She seems fine in herself.

 

Hi Becca,
Could be the carb or could be that she is bouncing so she may stay high for this cycle, she had a nice run for you last night, hopefully she will slide down into nicer numbers soon.

I am glad that Julie gave you some advice on the reducing the dose, I didn't know what to suggest because of the DKA.

I am also micro dosing George at the moment, it's not easy.

 

She has dropped to 211 @ +1.5...Maybe it was the high carb? I now don't know what to do about uni...Do I just leave Med or high carb food out in case she drops mega low?

 

I would leave HC out if you have to go, seems like she is clearing the bounce pretty sharpish. (or it's the HC clearing her system)

What time are you back?

 

@Gill & George I'm not back until 4pm...so +9

 

Leaving plenty of food out for her of the HC variety is your best option as long as you know that she eats when she is low, that is a fast drop, so leaving anything else other than HC out could be risky.
Is there anyway you could hang about for an hour or two? Sorry I know this is very difficult with your uni schedule.

 

Or could you pop back at lunch?

 

there is absolutely no way. I have to go to uni, this is an extremely important lecture and because of the NMC (Nursing Midwifery council) I have to do the hours.

 

I have a meeting at lunch
I will put the HC under her nose now.

 

Do what you can then give her some HC now, and leave plenty of that our for her to munch on while you are out.
You are really caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

I left 1.5 tins 30% carb down and 1 tin med carb down (she prefers the high carb so it won't be a difficult decision whether she needs it or not!)

 

Good luck, I will send out vines for a safe surf for your Lily.
BFG loves the HC too, mind you if I left all that food out he would wolf it down in 5 minutes flat, the greedy little thing.

 

Genuinely hoping and Praying Lily is still okay. She is now at +3.5. I hope that high carb has helped bring her up enough so that she will only be green at the lowest
It makes me wonder whether she needs insulin at all or could get away with 2% carb food.

 

I do wonder too?? I am praying she is ok to.
It may well be that being just on the LC could work for her, in an ideal world you would want to slowly wean her of the insulin, but I understand that it doesn't happen that way for all cats.
The concern with Lily is that recent DKA episode, which is why everyone is so hesitant with the dose reductions, but at the same time you can't be there 24/7 due to your study commitments.....
Bear in mind that what you are seeing this morning may also still be the effect of the depot of the 0.25u you shot last night.
When you get home and get that +9 post up for help see if some of the members experienced with dealing with DKA and FD are about to help.
You may want to also get a +11 in that can be useful when you compare it to your PS number, if you see her dropping significantly into PS it can be a sign that you have an active cycle ahead, so may help you pre empt her dives.

 

It just does not seem real that she may be able to get away with 2% carb food. Really. I don't even know when I would trial that or how I would unless I just hold the shot on a day when she has a blue AMPS and give her a 5 day trial without insulin. This would worry me greatly tbh, but might work. She is on literally a drop. I measured it as a small drop this morning. So much so I didn't even know whether it went in! So weaning off of insulin so quickly does not seem possible

 

I think there have been cats that have gone of the insulin when they have changed to a wet LC diet, so it is possible.

I too do not know what the best way to trial that would be given that her recent history, it's those higher numbers that she keeps throwing that make me unsure on how you should proceed. That and the DKA history.

Usually we would do a 14 day trial before declaring kitty officially OTJ.

I really think you need some expert eyes on this to advise, you, I would be interested to see what @julie & punkin (ga) and some of the others think.

 

I agree. See, her vet will just say 'feed higher carb' and will not mention remission (diet control) at all. Makes me wonder if I should do 5 days, see what the data says...If she is keeping herself nice and green on the 2% then carry on, if not, restart the drop of insulin and build up the depot over the next five days...I really would love to hear from some DKA experienced members and maybe some who have managed to get their cats OTJ like this. I am wondering if her hypo weekend kickstarted her pancreas?

 

Feeding Higher carb may be a way to manage this, not the dry, but with wet food, the fear is the DKA setting in if she comes of the insulin too quick with her history, I really don't know much about it. I've tagged Julie above, I am sure she will respond and perhaps others will chime in.

 

It might be worth speaking to the vet and keeping them up to speed with her progress, and see if they have any advice.
Have they shown any interest in her BG charts?
Here is some reading on DKA I would do some studying before speaking to the vet.

Which reminds me have you been checking for ketones at home? You can pick up the keto sticks at a pharmacy.

 

I managed to get home to check the BG...151. It was evident she has been asleep since I left and this 151 may be on literally just the gravy from the high carb I put down. This suggests that if I hadn't put HC down she may have been green when I tested. I now feel more confident to go back to uni and just do a +9. The vet has shown a little interest and I have shared her ss with them so they can see the numbers whenever they want. I don't think they have much experience of FD tbh, more canine diabetes and as such want to treat cats like dogs!

 

I would still speak to them regarding her current BG levels, insulin dose and DKA see if they have formed an opinion on the best way forward, they may have researched or asked colleagues with experience.
Good news on the 151
Leave some food out for her just in case.

 

So glad you were able to get home and check and see that she is at 151. That should give you the confidence to carry on today

 

Left half tin med carb down, she sleepily went and had some and then retired BTB. Ah, to be a cat! I am meant to be discussing this with the vet today.

 

+8 299

 

How did the chat with the vet go?

With that +8 looks like she may be high enough to shoot. But we don't really know how low she might have gone this morning without the HC fest you had to leave out for her. So just be vigilant early on in the cycle and be ready to step in with the carbs if she should drop.

 

Hey! I have injected. She was 384 PMPS. I will watch carefully, check at +1...she is on a dose where the end of the bung touches the 0 line. Don't know what that is but we shall see what she does. I hope I don't have to carb her up this evening because if I do, she may have to have one drop. She is flying down the doses and it feels slightly overwhelming to me.

 

Oh, and I still have not spoken with the vet. I called and was told I would get a call back but didn't. By the time I remembered, the vet was closed.

 

That's where we are at with the dose with George at the moment too, but he hasn't quite got the flair for the dramatic that Lily has

Pity about the vet not getting back to you, hopefully you will catch them tomorrow.

 

Don't quite understand how she is doing this though. If she has diabetes, her sugars are meant to be out of control without insulin. I can guarantee 2/3 of her food is 14% carbs and 1/3 is 2%. Now, all I can think is that her little pancreas has started producing some of its own juice...because if not, she would need more of the insulin, not less. And congrats with your flat cat!

 

I think that is where cats differ to humans their damaged pancreas can heal itself and start producing insulin. But I think sometimes it sort of sputters and doesn't get going consistently so that may be when you see the fluctuations, that and mr panicky liver releasing hormones and glucose into her system and causing her to bounce.

Thanks

 

Looks like lily is essentially holding. Maybe she will have a nice flat cycle tonight? I think she understands that I got no sleep last night and tired people can't look after their kitties properly.

 

Maybe a bit of a bounce from that fast drop this morning.

 

She just gave me a 50...I despair. I have no idea what to do!

 

give her a couple of teaspoons of HC and test in 30 minutes

 

I will. But I don't know where to go from here! I wanna rip my hair out

 

First things first lets get her up into safe numbers.
I understand how you must be feeling that is quite a drop she has given you.
What is the Carb content of her ps meal?

 

it might be better to check in 15- 20min

 

14%, so I'm not messing around

 

This all feels like she is getting high carbs, so has a high AM/PM ps, I shoot (despite her food being away 2h before test) and then the high carb wears off and it is as if I have shot a low blue

 

Becca update your title with the latest results, if it doesn't fit erase some of the earlier ones this morning, that way more people will see that you are having a moment and you may get more help.

 

Yes I think if you had fed LC we would have seen her drop earlier, the +1 was possibly influenced by a hefty food spike.

So she didn't get any food two hours before ps, what did she get this afternoon after you were home?

eta I don't think I worded that right, you would expect a significant food spike with a 14% meal, yet she was flattish slightly up, so with hind sight, getting a +2 would have been a good idea, especially with her love of diving.

 

She had half a tin of her 14% and half a tin of 2%

 

did she just graze on that? or ate it at a particular time?

 

She had most of the 14% at around 1530. She had the 2% at around 1630. She then had a whole tin of her 14% with her shot.

 

OK
thanks have you tested again? I would test now if you havent

 

191?

 

That's better, but get a test in one hour we want to make sure she is staying up of her own accord and that she doesn't drop as it starts to wear off.
I wouldn't feed for now.

I am not sure why you are seeing these huge drops, you do seem to be doing your best to try and mitigate her drops.
What % carb and how much did you give her, she seems quite sensitive to the carbs.
She isn't on much insulin.

 

did you recheck? that is quite a difference, just make sure you didnt get a dodgy reading

 

I rechecked and I calibrated...

 

I really hope you can speak to the vet tomorrow. See what they advise re insulin/dka situation.

Just going to go on about the ss again, you need to put the in the +3 column stack the numbers by formating the cell to text wrap, and put 2. 8@ +3 and 10.6@ +3.5 in the same cell, you will then need to manually colour the cell. Then go over to the us version and manually put the US numbers in I don't know if there is a better way of doing it but I think that should work and then all your numbers are where they should be.

 

133

 

Hi there. So Lily is at 133 at +5 is that correct? And how long has it been since any food given? I am just trying to get up to speed.

 

Hi. That is correct. Lily is at 133 at +5...HC food given at around +3.5

 

Okay, since it isn't mid-cycle yet , can you get another test in 30 minutes and we will see if Lily is holding or would need a bit more food. But right now, don't give any more so we see how she is handling this cycle.

 

@Andy & Pimp. will you be around for a bit to help with Lily? It's 7:51 EST and I will only be up for another hour.

 

Sorry guys, I had a network failure.

I am just about heading to bed but I will stay if there is no one that can stay with Becca.
Who needs sleep eh?

 

I am good for another hour from now it's 7:54 EST I tagged Andy to see if he will be around a bit, also going to tag @Woodsywife and see if she can help.

 

I'll get my jim jams on and check on you all on my tablet when i get to bed
as I said I can stay up reading for a bit longer if no one else is about.

 

Guys, please don't worry. I will stay up and test until mid cycle at which point I will make sure she is in an acceptable range and then off I go to sleep . I will update you all tomorrow morning. There is no point in all of us being awake!! if she drops really low I know, honey on the gums retest in 15-20 mins until she gets above 60. If she gets really bad honey can go up the bum and straight to the emergency vet. See, you guys should be proud! You raised me right!

 

Sorry guys I'm dealing with Smokey being sick right now. I'm logged in but don't how often I can check.

 

No worries, I think we are okay. Good luck with Smokey.

 

Hi, can you get another test and post?

 

Let's hope that won't have to happen. We want to make sure you are okay before signing off.

 

104 @ 5.5
@Bobbie And Bubba

 

I'll be in and out.

Becca, how long has it been since Lily last ate? About 2 hours?

 

She found a small piece of low carb pate she had deposited (strange cat) under the dining table and I just found her munching it but nothing else since the high carb food at +3.5. So yes. About 2h

 

+3 and she is @ 104 +5.5 right now

 

Lol,
We know you are capable. It's just part of the culture not to abandon someone until we are sure kitty is ok.

Bfg and I are posting from bed. So we will wait for that +5.5 and make sure miss lily fish is done with her shenanigans.

Yo Lilly!
Deputy George here,
I'll make you wear da water wings
No more deep sea diving,
There are shaks out there

Deputy BFG

 

Ok. I'd think about giving her a bit of LC to see if we can get her surfing now.

 

Good call. I was just thinking the same thing.

 

After some LC food, test again in 30 minutes and lets' see if she is holding.

 

Surfing? A blue? ...she has just had some 2%, so should hopefully stay put in the blues or high greens. 104 at 5.5. Hoping she won't drop too much more.

 

Surfing, is holding in safe numbers.

 

Hopefully she is done with diving this evening. She is nearly mid cycle and has just has some low carb

 

I'll check back in about 25 minutes to see what your +6 will be.

 

Can you get a +6 and post. Hoping she is up a bit more so she will just surf the rest of the cycle.

 

+6 88...I could cry. I've had less than three hours sleep last night and possibly likely the same tonight. I'm not functioning.

 

I feel for you. Okay, bring out some HC food and give her a couple of tsp. We have to get her up so tht you know she is going to be okay and you can get some sleep. And then post 20 minutes after she eat it.

 

PS sending you hugs

 

I can't get her out from under the bed. She is completely unreachable, all I can do is feed HC under the bed

 

Okay whatever it takes as long as she will eat it. It's the gravy that has all the carbs so strain some off her that way you won't fill her up in case we have to give more food.

 

@granadilla are you going to be around for a bit to help Becca steer Lily-fish up some? I need to get ome sleep as I think I am going to be up with Bubba later in this cycle.

 

I can't test her under the bed and can't reach her to scruff her either. Short of me lifting the bed off of her and grabbing her I can't get to her at all...this is turning into a little bit of a bad dream...I guess I'll feed her some gravy and cross my fingers.

 

88 is not a bad number, but we want to make sure she's not going to drop too much farther, and I know you're exhausted. Carbing her up to abort the cycle might be the best choice at this point.

 

Just get the HC in her and we can worry about the testing in 20 minutest later. Hopefuly she will forgive you and be happy about the gravy

 

I'll try to get the gravy in her and wait but if she is still under the bed when I want to test I may just have to not test and pray instead

 

Post after she has eaten it.

 

I think she has finished. She hasn't eaten the chunks but she has lapped the gravy

 

Good! The gravy is where al the carbs are anyway. Hopefully she will come out for some more in about 20. Maybe you can lure her with another little bit. Post again in 20 to update me. I won't leave you till we know she is going to be okay.

 

59 @ +6.75

 

Got to get some more HC in her, another 2 tsp.

 

Already done, she is eating it now

 

I'm missing her morning dose

 

Hopefully this will be the lowest point in the cycles Get another test in 20 minutes and post.

 

I can certainly understand you wanting to do that. You can't keep having back to back dives.

 

I think we shall see what her numbers are when I miss the shot...if she stays mainly blue or green I might do a trial.

 

Yes, I would skip morning too. If she's not come up substantially at next test, go ahead and add some honey or karo to the food.

 

It might be a good idea to post another thread with a question mark about the trail since she has had a DKA history. I am not knowledgeable with DKA at all .

 

She's one step ahead of you

 

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/coming-off-of-insulin.154423/#post-1628089