Litter box help for neuropathic rear end

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Cleocatra, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    Cleo has high BG induced neuropathy for the past few weeks. We're working on getting her regulated so hopefully it will subside. Anyway, she's having daily trouble when pooping- her hind legs get tired and she ends up squatting in her poop before she can exit the box properly, resulting in poopie butt and wiping it on the floor. she's also getting litter on her butt fur when peeing too. I keep her fur trimmed but the poop problem is bad. She gets a butt-bath about every other day.
    Does anyone have a litter box customization to keep her from squatting down into the litter?
    I tried a 2x4 wood step she could stand on keeping her butt well above the litter level but she won't stay perched on it. She just walks into the litter. Her box is plastic 15"x20"x 5"h. Actually have 2 of them I alternate.
     
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Sorry I don’t have a solution for you. I remember Sheba used to get tired legs when squatting to use LB and would sink into the litter.
    Do you have something outside the LB that will catch some of the litter/poop when she sits?
    I used to use suitable wipes to clean Sheba’s butt and also give butt baths.
    Hopefully others may have some ideas.
     
  3. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Are you giving her Methyl B12 for the neuropathy? Using Methyl B12 and getting her glucose levels under control will help reduce the neuropathy.

    I am also concerned about her dose. According to your spreadsheet, it looks like you are giving 5 units. That is an extremely high dose for most diabetic cats unless there are other contributing health issues. There is a good chance you missed her optimal dose. Too much insulin can also cause high readings. Most cats need less than 2 units per dose.
     
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  4. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
  5. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    I have Zobaline 3mg x 60 on order from Amazon. Should be here any day. First I have to take her to a specialist diag clinic tomorrow morning. Hopefully they'll give me green light for the Zoballine. Yes, I'm concerned my vet just kept increasing dose while not testing. But, she was on all dry Purina DM food which I think was making her drink and pee alot. Never did she exhibit hypo as the dose increased. We just kept going up and up since August and no change in thirst or improvement in activity level. Now that I have an Acutrak2, I'm testing regularly and it looks like she's down ~100 points in just 4 days.
     
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    You don’t need vet permission to start the Zobaline. It is possible they have not heard of it.
     
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  7. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Is she currently eating dry? If so, do not change her over to canned or raw food until you significantly lower her dose.
     
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  8. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    nope she's on 100% on Purina DM canned and some tuna now. Still shooting same dose 5Uam 4Upm, still testing ~400ish. Going to the diagnostic clinic tomorrow morning. They want me to 1/2 dose & no food after midnight tonight. That's gonna be fun. The drinking and peeing is way down. Now gotta get the BG down.
     
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  9. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    Is there a chance they'll tell me not to give Zobaline, or that it won't do anything?
    Here's the clinic. It's got a bunch of vets from Texas A&M: https://vcahospitals.com/animal-diagnostic-clinic-dallas/team/veterinarians
    We're seeing Amber Stiller.
     
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  10. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I think you may have missed your optimal dose and possibly dealing with rebounding or somogyi effect. If the dose is too high, the body tries to prevent hypoglycemia by producing excess glucose. So instead of lowering the glucose levels they are increased. Most cats only need 1 - 2 units per dose unless there are other health issues that would increase glucose levels. Also if an increase is needed, it is done after staying at the current dose for at least a week and only increased by .25 to .5 units.

    To determine if this is the issue with her glucose readings being high, you should consider starting over with a low dose, such as 1 unit twice a day. Continue testing before every shot and if possible get tests in between the shots. If after a week it looks like she needs a bigger dose, then only increase it by .25 to .5 units. The goal is to find the best dose to keep her glucose levels under control.
     
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  11. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    In answer to your above question.
    I can’t understand why they want you to give a 1/2 dose then nil by mouth. Just for an examination I would imagine.

    Yes, it is possible they might say not to give Zobaline. They probably won’t have heard of it. My vet who was quite up to date with FD hadn’t heard of it. It is not something vets carry. You don’t need their permission to use it. You don’t have to mention it to them if you don’t want to. It works. I used it on my cat Sheba and she returned to normal but you also need to get the BG back into more normal numbers as well.
    Please note that ordinary B injections that vets give are not the same as the B12 tablets (zobaline) and will not help the neuropathy.

    It is going to be up to you who you want to believe and follow their advice. I can only tell you all of us here care, or have cared for, diabetic cats 24/7 for years. We hear all sorts of stories from people who arrive here after following vet advice and are at their wits end not knowing what to do. This is a forum supervised by extremely experienced moderators who are online every day.
    Keep asking questions. Remember you are your cats advocate.
     
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  12. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Lantus is best dosed the same number of units AM and PM.
    9 units per 24 hour period is a lot.
    You may want to test for IAA (insulin resistant antibodies) and acromegaly, pituitary tumor.
     
  13. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    Probably 1/2 dose because we can't feed her until after the appt. I will mention IAA.
    Add: Her AMPS # is 366 today. That's a bit lower than previous days. 100% canned food.
     
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  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Mention acromegaly too. More common in cats than previously thought.
     
  15. Maggies Mom Debby

    Maggies Mom Debby Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Try using puppy pads instead of litter in the box. If she won’t pee on them, just add a little litter on top of them so it’s familiar to her. Standing in litter is not easy if there are balance issues.
     
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  16. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    My Dre out of the blue after 4 years could not use his back legs at all--
    I went to my vet and told her about zobaline and she looked it up--said it was just B vitamins and gave me some shots and said it usually doesn't work-
    WELLLL it doesn't work because she didn't give me the part of the vitamin B he needed.
    within a week on zobaline he was walking like a champ and still is.The shots (at least what she gave) did not have the METHYLCOBALAMIN in it and that is what you need. Dre is controlled (for him) and he will be on this forever! It is amazing. Also when he couldn't use his legs we use a baby pool and cut about a 16 inch section out so he could walk right in and a strap (wide) under him to hold his hind end up. You can use a towel too probably. But the wide start works great.


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  17. Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man

    Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man Member

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    Apr 13, 2014
    My Jazz Man has neuropathy also. When he goes poop he puts his front legs on the side of the litter box and stands up basically with the aid of the sides...the sides are about 6inches high. I had one other cat that had diarrhea real bad and I shaved her tail, butt and the back of her legs.
     
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  18. Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man

    Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man Member

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    Apr 13, 2014
    Also use real soft litter like Cat's Pride, only put about 2inches in..that way she can feel the bottom of the litter box.
     
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  19. Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man

    Jacque- Tiger & Jazz Man Member

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    I've never heard of the Methyl... it really works? I'm not treating Jazz Man's neuro with any meds or supplements. He is so used to the weakness and has figured out how to do what he needs to do. When he pees...he just stands on all 4 right outside of the litterbox and aims..most of the time he is a good shot lol. I have pee pads in front of all the litterboxes for misses.
     
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  20. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    Oct 11, 2015
    YES it absolutely works IF it is neuropathy....
    I get it from Lifelink (who makes it) but you can get it on amazon Dre is 21 and is walking again --he has also been getting adequan since about 16 years old which helps too but that is not for neuropathy.
    Zobaline is more than worth the money I will never take him off it.
    It took less than a week for him to have use of back legs but some take longer.
    Jazz Man and your life would be much easier and enjoyable.
     
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  21. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    When I adopted Spot she had neuropathy so bad she could barely walk. After putting her on a good insulin and methyl B12, she started showing improvement within a few weeks. Several months later you would never have guessed that she could barely walk at on time.
     
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  22. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    Thanks for the positive stories. I just received the Zobaline and Cleo had her first tab w/ dinner tonight. She tested 507 tonight rt before PM 5U shot because she got a snack about 1 1/2 hr before.
    She's been on 100% canned food for a full 7 days now. We've seen her BG#'s drop by ~100 at times but she's still popping up to 500 occasionally. Pooping is doing a little better as she hasn't made a BIG mess in several days, but she still squats down in it from time to time. We'll just see how the Z works in the next few weeks.
     
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  23. Cleocatra

    Cleocatra New Member

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    Feb 2, 2020
    Bad day today- she wasn't too active, was hi 400's AMPS & had gooey poo & vomited white foam. I don't think the Zobaline caused this because she ate it almost 24hrs ago. This happened last time when I put her back on canned food. Maybe just stomach upset etc. I will give her 1/2 pill of famotidine/pepcid that my vet told me to give her. Scheduled a visit w/ the VCA Animal Diagnostic clinic. I think she needs all the tests. I'm wondering if she's acro. Her markers are: pot belly, noisy breathing when laying down sleeping or snoozing, dandruff, not responding to 5U 2xday of Lantus. She was down in the 300's last weekend, but never below 300.
     
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