Long time regulated cat, now out of control

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Elizabeth B, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Elizabeth B

    Elizabeth B Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    Hamilton was diagnosed in June 2017 and has been well regulated (preshots b/w 160-180, nadirs around 100 - never low) for many months. He has stage II kidney disease and eats Wellness Complete Health canned food BID, no treats. While regulated, his insulin was 2 units of glargine 7am/pm morning and night. His most recent labs were great (fructosamine at 330).

    The past three weeks, though, have been wild. His glucose readings are all high. He is barely getting below 200 in a day. I have increased his dose (slowly) to 3 units (currently on day 2 of 3 units, no progress yet). I immediately threw out his insulin (regret it now) because I thought that was the problem. Though, I picked up pens from the pharmacy and had terrible luck with pens in the past.

    I had gotten quite lax about his chart, so do not have a spreadsheet to share. The last 4 days have shown curves, albeit small with preshots appx 250s, appx 300 (2-3 hrs post meal) and 200 (nadir). His +2/+3 readings have consistently been higher than his preshots during this time.

    I would be quite happy to hear any thoughts or experiences. I'm a bit lost at this point.
     
  2. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2017
    I know it’s a pain, but is there anyway you can use the memory from your AT or a home log to throw together a SS, at least with the most recent stuff (last 4 days at least) and link the SS you did have from before just to get a picture of what you regard as regulated vs what is happening now? It’s really hard to see what’s happening without “seeing” it that way. I know people will have thoughts and suggestions for you, but it’s a lot more helpful for people here as well as to your benefit to have something to look at.

    Hope we can all put our heads together and figure something to help Hamilton out! :bighug:
     
  3. Elizabeth B

    Elizabeth B Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    I think I've figured it out. I chose Wellness Complete Health because of it's carb listing on catfoodinfo.org. Well, I guess their new formula changed the composition (though, i was assured it was just the label - "it's the same food") and the carbohydrates more than doubled. I feel terrible I didn't catch it sooner. I am going to have to start sorting through other food options for CKD and diabetes! Should I let others know? Or am I the only one who didn't know?
     
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  4. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Oh wow, I hope it's "just" a food issue! Do let us know.
     
  5. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    Is this the chart you have been using? http://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
    the info was updated in 2017 and this is the most up to date one we have. Have you found that the Carb contents differ from this? From the list on this chart it seems it is just the chicken and lobster that is above 11% in carb. The other flavours are all under 10%
     
  6. Elizabeth B

    Elizabeth B Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    The "as fed" numbers changed ever so slightly, but the dry matter analysis is loads different. As fed is 3.5% carbs while dry matter is 22%. The phosphorous also increased. I am waiting to hear back from Wellness about what the actual change was and when it took place.
     
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  7. Gill & George

    Gill & George Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    If you have the As fed values we can help you calculate the % calories from carb.
     
  8. Elizabeth B

    Elizabeth B Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
    I was using a table from a feline CKD site. However, here is what I got from Wellness:

    Wellness complete chicken
    Dry Matter Analysis
    · Protein 48.49
    · Fat 35.52
    · Carbs 4.34
    · Phos 1.96 (formerly 1.15)

    Wellness complete turkey
    Dry Matter Analysis
    · P 48.57
    · Fat 35.05
    · Carbs 4.8
    · Phos 1.85 (formerly 1.04)

    Which is interesting because if you do the math for DMA from the Guaranteed analysis on the can, you get appx 20% in carbs. For us, the change in phosphorous is a "no go" for Hamilton's CKD. It's much higher than the previous formula.
     
  9. Elizabeth B

    Elizabeth B Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2017
  10. MJW

    MJW Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2017
    I don't see a link for his spreadsheet in the profile. There are many posts here from last year re the unfortunate changes in Wellness.
     
  11. Beth 73

    Beth 73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Hi Elizabeth ...I had to switch Elmo to Whole Earth duck due to Wellness formula change . Will try to dig up former post that the new Wellness formula had dramatically increased phosphorus levels . Prayers sent that you can get Hamilton back on track and peace for your heart ❤️ :bighug:
     
  12. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    You can’t do it that way. The GA on the can is useless. The DMA from the company...or the as feds...are what you need so it’s good you got them.

    However, those then have to be plugged into a calculator to get the correct values.
     
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  13. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Curious, why is that? (I'm trying to understand all this food stuff better.)
     
  14. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    They are just guaranteed maximums and minimums. For instance, the guaranteed minimum protein might be 10% because they want to meet AAFCO requirements. But when they actually test the food, which is where the nutrient analysis comes from with the DMA or as fed values, the food might actually be 30% protein. It not only meets the GA of 10% minimum but it exceeds it.
     
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