Losing my patience!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Peppersmom72, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    I feel like I am the only one that is about to lose my patience. I feel like my Pepper is suffering. She's eating, she seems like her happy self again. But these numbers won't come down! They do an insulin increase and the numbers keep climbing. Her PS numbers increase every day. What gives? How much longer can her little body take this? If anyone can give any kind of insight to cool my nerves, please help.
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    It could be you haven’t found the breakthrough dose yet. For my cat I didn’t see improvement until she got to 3 units. About 3 months into insulin. After a short time at that amount I was able to lower it. You only just started 2 units. If you don’t see improvement in 3 days, you may need to raise again. Last time you waited a long time before raising. No need to wait that long. 2 is not a high dose yet... it’s pretty average. Your cat has been in high numbers for a while.... it will take some work to get her down. She was only diagnosed 3 weeks ago... it’s a marathon not a sprint.
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Give it to Saturday. Sat morning if you haven’t seen improvement I’d go to 2.5.
     
  4. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Nov 20, 2017
    I guess that's what I get for listening to the vet. I didn't change the dosage because I was told not to from her. She said I have to give it at least 2 weeks. I'm blowing through test strips and its getting really expensive. My husband ended up buying freestyle lite test strips thinking they would work in my AT2 meter and that was a waste of $75. The difference in BG numbers from one test strip to another is at least 200 points.
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We'd suggest switching completely to a human meter because the pet meter strips are too darned expensive. Everyone here understands the BG ranges on a human meter even though it will read lower than a pet meter. You can save the pet meter for curves that your vet wants. The really important numbers are the "take action" numbers - 50 on a human meter and 68 on a pet meter. They tell you that BG is going too low and you should intervene with a higher carb snack. There's no easy conversion between human and pet meter numbers so it's best to put the pet meter out of your mind while using the human meter.

    I'm willing to bet that the majority of members on FDMB are here because what their vet was telling them to do wasn't working. Many had to take a huge leap of faith to trust the advice from experienced members here and had to struggle with guilt/mental conflict at deviating from their vet's instructions. Some had face to face heated disagreements with their vet or changed vets to find one who would work collaboratively with them. These are decisions you have to make for yourself.

    The amount of patience needed to get a handle on FD treatment is very high. Achieving good BG numbers can take many months. Your kitty is very recently diagnosed. I know how upsetting it is to see those high BGs but we can help you with that whenever you're ready. :)
     
    Adam Flowers likes this.
  6. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Nov 20, 2017
    I am ready. But, can I treat FD on a budget?
     
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, you can. Human meter strips are cheaper and that's a huge savings right there. You can do a curve at home - no $$ stay for a day at the vet's. Novolin is already a more economical insulin. Many of us feed Friskies or Fancy Feast low carb pates instead of $$ prescription food. There are many more tips out there so ask away ... :)
     
  8. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Missy, you just started. I completely understand that you want to hurry up and 'fix' your baby. I felt the same way. I had to have a mental shift to realize, like Janet said, this is a marathon and not a sprint. Being overly anxious/stressed about it all and expecting too much too fast is not good for you or your baby (or anyone else you have relationships with). So, try hard to focus on the fact that 'she is eating and seems like her happy self again'. The progress may be slow, but it is progress. I am past the five month mark with Mia now, and she is still not well regulated, and it is still frustrating, and there are still times when it is stressful and scary and when I am tired and just do not want to 'play this game' any more, but I have had to learn to 'settle in' to this new reality. If I had kept the same intense stress level I had the first few weeks, I would have stroked out by now. You are not alone. You are not the only one who feels like they are losing patience. You are just at the very beginning of a hard learning curve. :bighug:
     
    Adam Flowers likes this.
  9. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    @FurBabiesMama Thank You!

    I guess I am mostly nervous about using a human meter instead of my pet meter. The vet told that the goal BG for Pepper "for right now" is between 80-200 and don't shoot insulin if she is at 300 since she drops hard and fast (to keep her out of hypo). How do I follow that if I use a human meter? I'm out of AT strips now since I did my comparison testing yesterday. (200 pt difference between the strips). All I have now is my Freestyle Lite meter/strips.
     
  10. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    I can so relate @Peppersmom72 !

    Check out Merry's Spreadsheet and you can see how long he had high flat pink numbers & that was following the vets guidance. She let him sit way too long at the same dose with high numbers before increasing. And I was using the AlphaTrak2 meter as well. I finally got tired of seeing Merry so pink & flat because it's not good for his body to have those high numbers despite him seemingly feeling well so I decided at the beginning of Nov to follow the TR protocol & to follow the dosing guidelines there as well as posting in the appropriate insulin forum for dosing advice. You can see a big change in his numbers now :) I also switched to a human meter & am now using the Freestyle Lite Meter and those strips are less than half the cost of the strips for the AlphaTrak2.

    My advice is to stick with the human meter & strips & choose one of the protocols that fit best into your lifestyle & goals for Pepper. Either the Start Slow Go Slow protocol or the Tight Regulation Protocol.

    It is frustrating but when you start to see those numbers go down it's very rewarding :)
     
  11. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    @LuanneP ,

    Do you have to add or subtract numbers to get a more accurate BG reading, or do you just go by what the meter says? Are these protocols listed on this site? I'm at work for 12 hrs a day, so I need to find one that is suitable for Pepper and I.

    Thank you so much for your help!!!!
     
  12. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Oh having patience isn't one of my strong suits either but with the sugar dance, that's something we have to learn.

    Remember - insulin is a hormone that the body should be producing but isn't. It isn't a chemical med like thyroid, pain med, etc that the correct dose will always do the same thing. You're supplementing something the body has to have...

    Didn't want the info on protocol to confuse you. Those 2 protocols are written for Lantus and Levemir insulins - you're using N so things are handled a bit different. Lots of good info on the handling of that insulin in the Caninsulin / Vetsulin and N / NPH subforum.

    HUGS! Just keep at it...you'll find the handle!
     
  13. LuanneP

    LuanneP Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2017
    Yes, I was just going to reply with this as well when I saw Novolin N in @Peppersmom72 signature.

    Missy, here's the link to the Guidelines for the insulin you're using & it's based on numbers from the human meters.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-novolin-humulin-nph.186097/

    Just a small quote from that document that will answer some of your questions about the human meter but be sure to read the whole document it's very informative:

    "Generally speaking, for newcomers to N/NPH it’s recommended that no insulin is given if the BG is below 250 [13.8] on a human glucose meter. And you may wish to use a slightly higher ‘no shoot’ number such as 300 mg/dL [16.6 mmol/L] in certain circumstances. (See ‘Blood Glucose Reference Information’ further down the page).
    If you’re using a pet meter, such as Alphatrak 2, be aware that these usually give slightly higher readings than human meters, so you may wish to have a slightly higher ‘no shoot’ number."

    And definitely post on the Caninsulin/Vetsulin and N/NPH forum for dosing advice & guidance. I use Lantus & posting on the Lantus forum has been a huge help :)
     
  14. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    For many people this is the number one conflict. A doctor tells you one thing and a bunch of strangers on the internet say "No, that's wrong. Do this". Meanwhile your cat's life is literally in your hands.
    You'll notice the way we talk. Everyone is careful to "suggest" something. No one is snickering behind your back. You got the wrong strips but no one needs to tell you "I guess you learned your lesson eh?" And there is not a single person here that wants to spend-spend-spend!
    Every one of us started from nothing and wanted to tear our hair out because "This just isn't working like someone said it would." That someone is usually your vet and believe it or not many vets know very little about diabetes. They can quote you from a textbook but have different belief systems. Some don't even want you to test at home and demand another visit ($$$) before you make changes. Nuts to that! Every cat is different and responds differently to how you test them, the new food they're supposed to like and maybe most importantly they pick up on your frustration. Before you throw a shoe at someone remember this isn't easy for any of the 16,000 members here but we all want you to succeed.
    The key for me was printing out all the "stickies" on the different forums and sitting down with a high-liter. Everyone learns differently.
    One more thing (I promise), little Pepper is not suffering if "She's eating, she seems like her happy self again". It's you that's suffering needlessly.
    Start again with :coffee:, no more :banghead:, and eventually you'll have :D.
     
  15. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Your SS shows that the N insulin is working. A does increase is in order to bring the lowest BG in the cycle to about 100.
    N insulin is usually not the best for cats since it only lasts 8-10 hours. That means that the preshots will be relatively high to get a min of about 100. If that turns out to be the case I would talk to your vet about changing to a longer lasting human insulin like Lantus or Levemir, or the pet insulin ProZinc
     
  16. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Thank you all! Your words of encouragement are really helping. I just thought Pepper would have better numbers after 3 weeks of being on insulin.
     
  17. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Me again. I need to clarify/undo something I said earlier. "Nuts to that" did not mean ignore what your vet tells you. If you've gotten this far you obviously care and have made a real effort to get Pepper on the right track. That was my frustration towards vets that are too inflexible about changes and especially those that send you home with a timetable that can be unrealistic. Whatever else it sounded like I was trying to be encouraging in my own way. I should have stuck with "Things will get better", sometimes I can't help myself. :blackeye: :(
     
  18. PussCatPrince - GA

    PussCatPrince - GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Hey there. I'm new to all this too although my old Tyler has been on Lanctus insulin for the past 3 months. It was because I felt something was awry that I started looking deeper for info and knowledge and found this place.
    I have a choice of just one vet practice and they are lovely people , It was just that on some things I was noticing , I felt I wasn't being properly heard or maybe I mean that the vet was kind & caring to me and Ty but not taking what I said seriously enough. Now I have found there is more I can do for Tyler to control this diabetes thing than just give him the insulin and feed him his renal diet.

    We will both get there @Peppersmom72 . I suppose one needs a bit of history of the BG numbers with the insulin + feeding to start to get a feel of how this works over the course of a day for our own cats. I still really have no idea at this moment so rigidly stick to the 2 units twice daily until someone might 'suggest' otherwise. Then at least I have choices.

    Best thing , both our cats are feeding & happy enough in themselves so we have a chance to slowly make things better for them with this.

    I use a human meter . It is very hard to get hold of items/foods here where I live so no choice for a pet meter anyway.
    Yes. One has to adjust the budget to allow for the costs with this - things in New Zealand are expensive - but it will be manageable and the costs will lessen as we get more proficient at understand feline diabetis.Who knows maybe our cats might both gain remisson.

    All the best. I know it's hard. Crikey! I was totalled yesterday :confused: .
     
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  19. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release. Repeat as needed.

    This whole 'sugardance' takes time. You've already started to do some good things for your kitty Pepper, like feeding her low carb canned food. This sugardance is a marathon, not a sprint. It takes time and 3 weeks is actually very little time for a newly diagnosed kitty.

    I bet you see some other positive signs in Pepper, even if the BG numbers still look too high. Peeing less? Playing more? Purring lots? Appetite good? Pooping normal? Drinking less water?

    You could try giving the Novolin (NPH type) insulin every 8 hours, schedule permitting. Not always possible but worth a mention.

    If, and it's a big if, you decide to ask your vet about trying Lantus insulin, get a prescription from your vet and order the insulin from Canada. Lots of folks here have used Marks Marine Pharmacy for the insulin. Canadian cost for lantus is a fraction of the cost that it is here in the US.

    What is your favorite color? I'll loan you a pair of my 'patience pants' if you like.

    p.s. My cat Wink was on Humulin N initially when he was at the cat shelter. Switched to Lantus by the vet and unfortunately high carb Hill's W/d dry cat food. At least you are feeding better food to Pepper.
     
  20. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    I'm by no means upset about what you said. It's the truth. Thank you for your support.
     
    Noah & me (GA) likes this.
  21. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Pepper's not feeling well tonight. Though she did not throw up, she did do the I'm going to be sick cry. Poor baby must have a belly ache. I'm going to check her BG in a little bit just to be on the safe side.
     
  22. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    If you stick around long enough, and I sincerely hope you do, you'll see my posts sometime define sudden mood swing. I'm lucky enough to have a great vet whose father was also a vet. It's been almost 15 years since I first walked into her door with 5 cats and 4 kittens, then a puppy, then another 10 cats over the years. She was on the phone with us every day with our first sugar cat. So now you see where my frustration with vets who do the wrong thing comes from. I also sometimes shoot my mouth off but usually realize what I've done pretty quickly. Pepper was the name of my dog when I was 11 years old so I hope that brings you some luck. :bighug:
     

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