Lost, don't really know what to do...

Hello everyone
Starting by introducing my cats, one's name is Bemmer and the other is Kyme. Bemmer is (almost) 9 year old siamese snowshoe mix and I just got him about 10 months ago, so it hasn't even been a year. I have another cat named Kyme (2 yrs) and he's also a siamese snowshoe mix and I got them both before they were about to be put down

Bemmer's in the front and Kyme's in the back sleeping

Anyways, for about a month Bemmer has been eating ravenously, peeing a ton and drinking a ton, which at first I didn't think was a big deal because he's a pretty big cat, naturally being around 14-15lbs, but in the last week, he's lost a majority of his weight and looks terribly skinny (like a rail).
Here's my problem: I'm 17 years old and I have no job. I'm already stressed out trying to finish my senior year and trying to raise my SAT scores because there awful. I'm working on raising my gpa with my AP classes and my parents have almost no money because my dad has had to go the ER to get a heart problem fixed, so he's been out of work for about a month and a half now, and the bills he usually pays are put onto my mom, so she also has no money either. Right now, I have about 180$ save up from jobs I've done around my neighborhood watching other peoples animals, and I have no clue when there's going to be some extra cash. I don't know what to do because so far I've called 7 different vets in my area and they told me they have no payment plans for me besides carecredit or pet insurance, but pet insurance doesn't cover "pre-existing medical issues" and I can't do care credit because my mom is paying off my sister's dentist bill with another care credit card. SOMe of the vet's actually told me the insulin would be $130+ a vial (???!?!?!?!?!) The only low cost animal clinic that I can go to nearby doesn't have appointments until another two weeks (figures :-x ). It really sucks because even with explaining my situation, I got no sympathy on if I could just pay off the bill over time. And even thinking about the costs after he is diagnosed, I don't know how I'm going to be able to help him. So, right now, I'm pretty positive he has diabetes but he hasn't been diagnosed with it yet because i can't bring him in to a vet because I'm poor and I'm a sucky cat parent.

I think I'm mainly posting this because I have no clue what to do. I'm really angry at vets and my parents and myself because i feel like i'm neglecting one of the nicest cats I've ever met, and I feel basically like an ass. I guess I'm looking for reassurance.... I'm going to keep calling the cheap vet just in case there are any cancelled appointments....
:YMSIGH:

 

We may be able to help. First, choose the free testing link at the top of the page. We will send you a home testing kit free - you just pay postage. That will help you save all kinds of vet costs by testing at home, instead of taking him to the vet for blood tests. We can teach you how.

Next, change your catfood. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. You can feed the large cans of Friskies pates. It is possible that your cat's levels may go down dramatically. (and you can monitor the changes at home)

If you need insulin, contact DCIN (Diabetic Cats in Need). Sometimes they can help with insulin costs.

This is doable; we'll do our best to help.

 

Hi Bemmer's caregiver and possibly extra sweet Bemmer and welcome to the board.

Sue gave you several great suggestions. Let us know how it's going and we can help more, after you get the test kit.

What is your first name? Didn't see it in your post.

 

I just wanted to mention one thing you could do while waiting on the home testing kit/vet visit-

Get a bottle of ketodiastix from the pharmacy. They are urinalysis strips you dip in the urine and will tell you if there is any glucose and/or ketones in the urine. The strips are color coded and easy to read and interpret. The run under $20 for a bottle of 50. Make sure they are KETODIASTIX, not just ketostix (which only checks ketones), you want the one that checks both glucose and ketones.

That will give you an idea if diabetes is really into play here, because normal cats never have glucose in their urine. Also checking for ketones is essential if your little guy is diabetic. Ketones can be life threatening - you can read up about it here- http://binkyspage.tripod.com/faq.html#ketones

Here is a link with tips on testing urine and how to collect it - https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1r6ktdF7AMJCYHgPkVQWFUFy5Ag6OnbmfNfQqL3zX_88

Please keep us updated, we want to help you help Bemmer. You are not a sucky cat parent, you are doing what you can and trying. You obviously love your little guy and want to do all you can for him or you wouldn't be here! The folks here will help you, don't worry, you can do this.

 

Hello everyone
WOW thank you for the replies :mrgreen:
So first, My name is Carly, sorry I forgot to mention that.
Second, I've already tried applying for one of the home testing kit's a couple weeks ago actually when I found this board, and they said they were out of them.
Again though, I'm not completely positive he has diabetes because I haven't been able to bring him to the vet yet and I'm really just going off the symptoms he has, but today by some miracle i have finally found a vet that will work with me to pay for an examination and i have an appointment on Saturday this week to get him checked out so hopefully we can figure out what's wrong because they also said it's a possibility he might have kidney disease. I'm kind of crossing my fingers that he actually has diabetes instead :roll: ... Just in case though, I wanted to post on here so if he does have it, I have some people to help me out because I've read a lot of the other boards and you're all pretty amazing at figuring out ways to save some extra dough :smile:
I'm gonna go show some love to my fuzzball Thank you so much and i'll let you guys know on Saturday whats wrong

 

Let us know. Be sure the vet does a fructosamine test. It's a little more expensive, but will tell you what his levels have been for the last few weeks. Just a blood test in the vet office had been inaccurate. Most cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises bg levels.

Sorry our supply is low. The next best thing is to get a ReliOn meter from Walmart with strips to match and some 26-28 gauge lancets. The whole thing should be under $30.

And changing the food now can do nothing but help. Friskies in the big cans is usually the cheapest choice.

 

Kinda late to the party but if he does have diabetes and you need a meter look into DCIN, they maybe able to help with testing supplies as well. Even if it isn't diabetes I bet we have folks here that have dealt with whatever it is.

And we are a creative bunch when it comes to figuring out a way to help out a kitty.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn and The Fur Gang

 

The Friskies Special Diet pates are both low carb and renal-sparing, plus fairly affordable.

 

Hello everyone sorry I'm a little late but my computer crashed thursday so I only have the library to go to until I get it fixed. So I haven't gotten his bloodwork back yet but when I went the vet said it sounded a lot like hyperthyroidism and that besides for his teeth(he has gingivitis) he's healthy :razz:
apparently she's calling tomorrow so, crossing my fingers hes not as bad as I thought he was :roll:

 

Hi Carly,
I was wondering about you and Bemmer, and how the vet visit went. Please let us know what the bloodwork reveals when you can. Fingers crossed.

 

So he does have diabetes the vet called back to tell me but I wasn't home and so I called back and I'm now waiting for her to call back so I can bring him in again :-|

 

Ok.

Prozinc comes in 10 mL vials containing 400 units. It is given every 12 hours. Only available through vets or vet pharmacies.

Lantus comes in 300 mL pens with 300 units per pen. It is given every 12 hours. A savings card may be useable getting the pen cost down to $25 per pen; some stores may sell by the pen.

Humulin N may need to be given every 8 hours for decent control in cats because the metabolism is faster than a dogs; we don't recommend it.

 

Ok so I talked to her and she wants to start me on prozinc twice a day and she gave me a prescription for a 100ct of syringes for $23 so it's all together $133 which isn't that bad compared to what I was expecting it to be
She told me there was glucose in his urine, his glucose level was at 628 and something about his kidney levels being at 91 and bc my mom and I can't pay up front the $110 for prozinc until tomorrow morning for them to order it, Bemmers gotta wait until Monday to start it because that's when the order will come in
she also said she thinks she wants to put him on fluids to flush out his kidneys
:YMSIGH:

 

Hi Carly and welcome to the best place to be if you have an "extra sweet" kitty!!

If you're tight on money, you might want to just go to WalMart and buy a Relion meter (they're about $15) Meters are cheap..it's the strips that kill your budget. The Relion Prime has strips that are $9 for 50 but take a little bigger blood sample....The Relion Confirm or Micro strips cost about $18 for 50 but take a very tiny amount of blood. Most of us use one or the other. Get a box of lancets too...look for ones for "Alternate site testing" (26 or 28 gauge)..if you get a lancet device, still get the box of lancets that are for alternate site testing since the lancets that come with the device are usually 31 gauge, so very tiny. When you're first learning how to home test, the lower numbered lancets (like 26-28) are better because they do make a bigger hole. Once Bemmer's ears "learn to bleed" you can go back to the 30 or 31 gauge lancets.

Get your kitty off of any dry foods and transition over to only wet foods less than 10% carbs. Here's Dr. Pierson's Food Chart Just about every food you can feed is on that chart as well as the percentage of carbs. Friskies pate's are cheap and readily available

It's POSSIBLE just with a diet change your cat could be diet controlled, but even if that doesn't happen, it'll be a lot healthier and feeding low carb food is a MUST to get any cat under control.

It's actually not all that bad that you won't be getting the Pro Zinc until Monday...You could start transitioning food now as well as starting to learn how to home test. Then by Monday, when you get the insulin, you will already be ready to get kitty under control!

We have lots of tips on home testing, and we can't stress it enough that it's really important that you do home test. It's the only way to make sure your kitty is SAFE as well as letting you see how he's doing without paying for a lot of useless vet curves.

Good luck!!

 

Hello hello thank you for welcoming me I have by the way already taken my cats off dry food bc they were both having too many problems with uti's and they've been eating friskies for a while but I guess I'm gonna switch Bemmers to the pate kind and hopefully this week I can go and get the meter and the strips with the lancets and I'll probably do some practicing
I just hope he can wait till Monday since it's almost been a month 1/2 since this all started
he's so skinny :sad:

 

High numbers, while something that needs to be treated, aren't the biggest worry...Yes, too high for too long starts to wear on the other organs, but this takes time. Numbers that are too low are the ones that can kill quickly.

Just look for the foods on that list I gave you and get Bemmer eating the ones that are under 10% carb...a few more days isn't going to make any difference.

He's skinny because the body requires insulin to break down the nutrients in the food so they can be used by the cells. That's why our sugarcats eat a lot and don't gain any weight..they're actually starving because no matter how much they eat, their body isn't getting the nutrition.

China was an absolute skeleton when she was diagnosed too. I had thought it was thyroid, but it was diabetes. In two months of insulin therapy, she not only gained back the weight, she's looking and acting like a young adult instead of a "mature" one (nice word for old...lol) Once you get Bemmer under better control, I'm sure you'll see the same type of things...he'll gain back the weight, his coat will become soft and shiny again, he'll resume grooming and playing and doing all the things he used to do before...and it's a wonderful thing to see!

 

Update so the lady actually ordered the insulin for me so I'm going to be able to go in tomorrow to buy the syringes and she's taking the insulin money from my moms card and we can get him started on it and omg I'm so happy I found a caring vet who doesn't overcharge and everyones so nice yayayay:mrgreen:

 

Definitely switch to just the Friskies pates; the other Friskies will be higher carb.

At the levels you've identified, he will need insulin for a while. Start with a low dose - 0.5 to 1.0 - because you are switching food and because you are not yet home testing. Do get to work on learning how to home test the glucose to keep him safe and to determine when a dose adjustment may be needed.

 

Okay woohoo
So bemmer is on 1 unit of prozinc twice a day, I switched his food to friskies pates, and he got a saline solution to flush out his kidneys today and the vet even agreed I should start home testing !!!!!!!! so I'm gonna practice this week when I get the glucometer and then update on #'s because I won't know what im reading
even though he just got insulin today around 5 hours ago he already seems so much more alive, it's weird. I haven't seen him just being awake in the living room in almost two weeks and it's so nice :lol:
THANK YOU

 

Well since you're still not home testing, but you have started the insulin, it's important that you read this information and print it out so you have it if you need it. Hypo's kill quickly, so it's important you know what to watch for and what to do

How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!

Looking forward to seeing some numbers once you're testing!

 

When I do start testing are there certain times I'm supposed to test at? Because I'm starting to feed him in the morning at around 8-9am and I give him his shot at the same time, then at around 2-3pm I give him some more cat food and then T around 8-9 pm (depending when I give him the shot in the morning) I'll feed him again and give him the 2nd shot, so do I check before or after he eats and at the same time of his shots? Or like am I supposed to wait bc I think eating can change his #'s right? Or do I do it randomly during the day and should I even feed him at 3pm? He's just a naturally pretty large cat so I dont want him to be hungry confused_cat

 

Always test before you shoot. New folks should not shoot below 200 mg/dL until test data shows it is safe.

Test around the likely nadir to see how low he goes. Above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer at lowest is safe.

Snag one before bed if you don't know his response. If he needs intervention you'll be alerted to stay up with him.

Let him graze for 10 hours, the pick up food 2 hours before the next pre-shot test and shot.

 

Carly, you should always get at least 4 tests per day. It's even better if you can get some "spot checks" at different times as you can learn a lot from them! There's no such thing as too much data, so the more testing you do, the better prepared you'll be to manage the diabetes.

1 AMPS, 1 PMPS, 1 around +5 to +8 and one "before bed" test.

Using your times as examples, at 8am you'd test (AMPS...AM Pre-shot) and make sure he's over 200, shoot and feed (all within about 15 minutes)...then sometime between +5 (1pm) and +8 (4pm) you'd want to get another test...this one is to try to find the "nadir" (the point where the insulin is most effective)

At 6pm, you'd want to make sure all the food is up so he can't get into it, so when 8pm comes around, you're ready to test, shoot and feed again. PMPS (PM Pre-shot) Get one last test before you go to bed so you have an idea of where the numbers might be going overnight and if you might need to either stay up, or set an alarm to get up and test overnight. Most cats do go lower at night, so the sooner you learn how Bemmer reacts to insulin and food, the better off you'll be in knowing when it might be better for you to stay up...we have all had our share of "pajama parties" while staying up with someone dealing with low numbers at night...thank goodness someone always brings the coffee

We have a spreadsheet we'd like for you to use too. By putting your test results into our spreadsheet and putting the link in your signature, we'll all be able to see how you're both doing! Here are some instructions on Setting up a spreadsheet

Can I ask you to please go ahead and add some information in your signature too? We like to have your name, your cat's name, Date of diagnosis, what insulin you're using, what meter you're using, what food you're feeding and any other health problems that your kitty has. Your spreadsheet link would go there too when you have it set up. You can see what's in my signature below.

To do this, go to the User Control Panel (top left side of page)
Choose "Profile"
Choose "Edit Signature"
Add the information above and then "Submit"

Look forward to working with you and Bemmer!!

 

Okay so feeding him at around 3ish won't affect the "nadir" if I try to get it at 4pm right? Since thats +8 from his amps, or would be better to test him at 2pm before he eats since that'll be +6? and like you both said I just let him graze over whatever he didn't eat until 6pm so then I can do the pmps at 8pm and then that will be his last feeding time?

By the way I'm feeding him half a can of the 5.5oz friskies pate each time he gets fed so he's only getting about 1 can 1/2 a day from the 3 feeding times. Does that seem like enough because I was so used to him eating around 4-5 full cans a day :lol:

 

Most cats have a nadir between +5 to +7 hours after the shot, so somewhere in that window would be good.

It sounds like enough food unless he really needs to gain weight.

 

The only time you want to make sure the number is "without the influence of food" is the Pre-shot tests, so no food for the 2 hours prior to AMPS AND PMPS...during the middle of the cycle, you can feed several small meals or let him graze...just pick up the food 2 hours prior to your pre-shot times...so if 8am/8pm is when you're giving shots, you'd want to pick up the food by 6am and 6pm

 

Let us know if you need help with the spreadsheet!

Wendy

 

Ok so I got the relion prime with the 26 gauge lancets and I know that it takes a bigger amount of blood but in the long run the strips are cheaper and his ears will learn to bleed so it's okay for now ;-)
The only thing that sucked was that there was no lancing device on any of the shelves so I don't have that and I went and looked at cvs and they have the generic one but it didn't say it went with the relion prime lancets so I didn't get it... Is it still okay If I do it without it?

 

If you got the lancets, you can freehand it...you don't HAVE to use a lancet device. (I started with one, but have found that I do better freehanding) If you do want to use a device, it doesn't matter what brand it is. The only thing you're using it for is to poke a hole so it doesn't matter what brand you're using.

Here are some Ear testing tips that might help

The Sweet spot is where you want to aim for. Here's where that is:

 

OMGGGGGGG so I finally started to mess around with the lancets to get a feel for how the prick would be and long story short my first try I'm pretty sure I ended up pricking right on his vein because a huge drop of blood formed on his ear and I like wasn't even ready because i was just practing thinking nothing was going to happen and so i had to go run and set up the test strips and everything while hE WAS SITTING THERE WITH THIS MASSIVE BLOOD SPOT :lol: so I set everything up and i like ran to the kitchen and there was mOre than enough blood and I got a reading of 86!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!??!??!??!!!!AHHHH IM SO EXCITED BECAUSE ISN'T THAT REALLY GOOD ???!!! :mrgreen: this was only about 3 1/2 hours after his shot by the way ....so I'm figuring that's why it's so low?? It's was at 11:48pm if that makes a difference

 

86 is an excellent number, but since you're new to this, I'd be a little concerned it's that low this soon after eating. Since you don't have any data to fall back on to see how he reacts to food or insulin, you might want to continue testing him tonight. If he goes below 50, that's an emergency and you should be ready with some high carb food or Karo, honey or syrup to bring him back up.

What was his PMPS number or did you get one? You should always get a pre-shot number to make sure he's high enough to safely give insulin.

Read this and if you can, print it out just in case How to treat hypos. They can kill!

If he does go below 50, post here and use the 911 icon so someone can help you through it.

Congratulations on becoming a member of the Vampire Club!

 

Hahaha why thank you for inviting me :lol:
This was my first test so I never got a pmps but I have to wake up at 5:30am today so i guess I could retest him then which will be +9hrs and then at 8am I'll get the amps and I'll try to retest him again at around 12 or 1 so then it will be like testing him tonight which was about 4+hrs (8pm to 11:48pm) and I can see how he reacts to the insulin and food like how it was tonight and see if it will be the same low #'s
I won't be able to test again until later at around 9ish because I have to pick up my mom from work from my sisters house so

 

89 is a low number for +4 for a new diabetic. Please be sure you test before the shot this monring and don't give insulin under 200. If she is 200 or under, wait 20 minutes, without feeding, and retest. You want to be sure the number is rising and that it is near 200.

It looks like she may need less than one unit twice daily.

 

Ughh okay frustration is like surging through me :-x
So I when igot back home at around 6:30am I did a random test and this was +10hrs after his pm shot and I got a reading of 233. I woke up about an hr ago at 8am to try for an amps test and then do his shot and feed and within the first five minutes I got a good prick and blood but when I put the blood on the strip the meter wasn't on so it didn't read it :evil: I tried to turn it on which didn't work and then taking it out and putting it back in and no reading. so then I went for another prick but didn't et enough blood and by now I'm mad because bemmer is naturally super squeamish and won't let me hold him so I'm literally freehanding everything and this second prick took like 20 minutes but not enough blood. I tried for another one but by now he wouldn't let me touch his ears so that was a struggle and I ended up getting almost no blood anyways ...it was pointless 1 hour fight...and then I figured three pricks was enough and I was ready to smash my head into a wall
I just gave him the food and the shot which ended up being an hour late and now I'm tired and feel bad because I can see the bruises/redness on his ear and I feel like a jerk but at least I got the 6am reading since it couldn't have dropped until 8am right?
And where do I prick him on his ear now that its kind red all on the side?

 

Hi Carly,

A couple things.

1) Try testing three times and if unsuccessful, just stop. Give treats to Bemmer and praise him, and give yourself a break.

2) When you get the blood drop, if you can get it onto your fingernail, you can test from your fingernail rather than trying to put the meter to the cat to test. This will also allow you to make sure your meter is set up and ready to take the blood.

3) I too free hand the pokes and sometimes, I don't get enough that I will poke 2-3 times in the same area to get the blood drop to form. In addition, you can "milk" the ear to get the blood flowing - you do this by massaging, pinching the area around the poke to get the blood flowing.

Has anyone mentioned the warming sock to you? A warming sock is used to help warm the ear and get the blood flowing.

To make a warming sock - take one of your socks (without holes in it)
add 1/4 cup (or thereabout) of either dried beans, dried rice (not instant) or oatmeal (my preference)
knot the top so nothing falls out
place in microwave for 15-30 seconds until warm to touch, then hold on Bemmer's ear until warm.

In addition, I keep it there and use it as a buffer for poking so if I poke and pierce I don't poke my finger.

Finally, the angle you hold the lancet is important too. I found that by holding it at a 45 degree-ish upward angle and poking that way works better than holding it totally horizontal or upright and poking that way.

Here is a pic of the angle I'm talking about:



The soreness or redness you see, can be helped in a few ways:

1) after poking and testing - rub/massage the ear to help prevent bruising
2) use neosporin (generic brand is fine) with pain relief and rub on ear after testing
3) alternate ears with each test
4) you can also poke from the opposite side - for example I poke from the front inside edge of ear (see the pic above), you can also poke from the back of ear too - basically just do what is most comfortable for you and Bemmer

And be sure to reward yourself, even if you don't have a successful test. It's important that you take care of yourself. So whatever you like, whether it be food reward or manicure/pedicure, talking to friends, whatever - do it and treat yourself right. The more you treat yourself, the better you feel and more confident you become and hopefully less frustrated when things don't work right.

 

If you absolutely must get blood, aim for the vein.
Just be prepared to get a droplet on your fingernail and blot quickly, because when you nick the vein, it tends to bleed profusely. Then 1 good shake of the cat's head and you've got it spattered all over. (Spitzer did that to me a few times!)

 

Alrighty so I finally got anothertest done just now 1:30pm which is 4+ hours and he was at 110 and I hit the sweet spot because i got a really good bleed after 4 tries and what helped a lot was I put Vaseline on his ear like you guys said and it formed a droplet instead of going into his fur which evenually happened on the first 3 tries
I'm gonna put this in the ss but so far
10/8 11:30pm 4+ 86
10/9 6:30am 10+ 233
Couldn't get amps test; shot was hour late 8--->9am
10/9 1:33pm 4+ 110

Good #'s ?? Not good #'s??

Physically he is acting completely normal again he grooms, his pees are so nice and small, his poop is a dark brown instead of a weird greenish color, he's only eating the amount of food I give him rather than harboring in the kitchen as if I starve him(I switched to doing a full can in the morning and a full can at night so he can graze and he doesn't keep bothering me for food; by 6pm and am it's gone) and he's not drinking 4 bowls of water but instead maybe 1?? He drinks from two but I only have to refill twice a day and majority of the time they still both have water in them DDD the best thing though is he can finally hop on tables again without falling off because his back legs don't give out anymore cat_pet_icon

 

This is good! Keep testing and posting and we are here. But these are good numbers.

YAY!

 

Good numbers!

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

= 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- the lowest level pre-shot for ProZinc, PZI, or other non-depot insulins.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as mid-cycle data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

 

Yeah Carly!! Looks like Bemmer is doing really well for so early into treatment!

Don't forget to put your numbers into your spreadsheet you have set up. The link is in your signature, but there's no numbers entered yet. You'll find the information you get by keeping that up to date invaluable as you move forward!

Glad to hear that he's eating less, drinking less and his legs are better!

 

Insulin shot tonight was about an hour late (10pm) because I didn't get home until 930pm and then I had to get the pmps test which I did (!!!!!!!) and I got a reading of 235 at 9:48pm, which for tonight bc I was late is like +12 hrs 10-20min
I think I'm figuring out too where that sweet spot is on his ears bc I prick that spot and that's where I keep getting a good amount blood
O and I put all the #'s in the ss besides tonights but my computer is still crashed so it's kind of hard trying to do it from my ipod
I'm feeling super happy drinking09
thanks everyone for being so helpful I'm really happy I found this site bc obviously I know that a big part of the reason he's doing so good is bc all the advice you guys have given me so thank you so much again :')

 

Glad to hear you're at least getting more testing done...that's a big step to learning how to control Bemmer's diabetes!

Try to figure out what times to shoot work best for you so that he can always get his shot every 12 hours (Of course if you have to stall because of a low Pre-shot number, that will throw your schedule off, but you can work your way back to the schedule you want by going back either 15 minutes per cycle, or 30 minutes per day)

I started with China at 11am/11pm because I'm NOT a "morning person" and can much easier stay up late, but staying up until 5am to get a +6 got old fast, so we gradually switched to 6am/6pm. I don't like getting up at 6, but since I'm not a morning person, I can go back to sleep if I want to after testing/shooting/feeding. On most mornings, I'm barely awake but get the test, shot and food done within about 10 minutes, and then find my way back to bed...LOL Then when the PMPS time comes around at 6pm, I can continue testing up until midnight (+6) and get a pretty good idea if I can sleep the rest of the night, or if I might need to set the alarm to get more tests later if she's running a little low

This sugardance can be hard to figure out at times, but once you figure out the best times that will work for you, that's half the battle.

 

Luckily with ProZinc, the schedule is more flexible. You can shoot within that 10-12-14 hour window AS LONG AS THE NUMBER IS RISING. You do not want to shoot a falling numbers as there may still be insulin on board and you don't want to add more.

It looks like one unit is giving you nice numbers. I will be happy to see a morning preshot with a midcycle and another pm preshot number so you can see if it is taking him too low or not.

Remember no shot under 200.

 

See and that's why I've been trying to do was starting 7am/7pm cycle because it woke me up and then 12 or 1 I would try to get another shot etc but it's slowly now slipped to 10/10 bc it depends on if he's being cooperative with the testing which so far has delayed me an hour and then picking up my mom delayed me another hour and now I'm slowly going to switch it back to 8am/8pm = not to early and don't have to stay up super late bc I like Jimmy Fallon anyways
Ok so the amps was 203 now do I wait on that one or can I give him the shot anyways? If he low 200s at all do I just wait

Update: I waited 1/2 hr attempted to do a test got a good prick but right when I put the stick to his ear he moved his head so the stick was flooded with blood and I got an error and so I got another stick put it in the meter and had it suck up the extra from stick one and got an error. Pricked again and milked his ear but he moveeeeds aggggaiiinnnn ( :evil: ) and it went on my finger. I have no nails either so I can't put the blood on my finger and then I tried again but got no blood so i quit fed and shot him anyways and now I will retest at 3 or 4...
:!:

Edit again: He last ate 13+ ago now; shot is now another hour late ughhhuyghcfughh

 

When did he eat last? If not food influenced, one unit should be okay, if you can monitor midcycle. If you will be gone for the day, I think I would reduce the dose a bit.

 

Carly, remember to warm his ear first before trying to test. It can make a world of difference!!

You can use a small sock with some rice, oatmeal or beans in it and microwave for about 15-20 seconds. (you test for how hot it is on your wrist, like you would a baby's bottle)

OR, you can get a small pill bottle and fill it with warm water (again, test against your wrist)...I like this one because a pill bottle fits nicely into their ear and also gives you something hard to poke against

OR you can get a warm wet washrag and put it into a baggie.

Try whichever one sounds best for you next time you need to test and see if it helps. Remember, after 3 attempts, give Bemmer a treat for putting up with you, and leave it for a little while. Give him and you some time to calm down. If you get upset, he's going to feel it and it's going to make the whole thing harder for both of you.

 

Hello hello so I actually did start using the oatmeal sock warm up thing when I first started testing him I think it has more to do with the fact that by the 3rd or 4th poke I start to give up and I get frustrated bc I keep calm the whole time and make sure I scratch him so he's comfortable but he doesn't like my hands near his face so it's a little hard to get a nice poke into his ear, but today was pretty good ;-)
Already did the amps^^ 203
6+ was 100
Pmps was at 279 but he did eat a little (literally a small small amount; i caught him) around 40 minutes beforehand because I forgot to pick up the extra left
and I got the test done quick so I was able to go back by a 1/2 hour yay

 

That's a nice smile curve which we are looking for with PRoZonc. Up at both ends with a drop midcyle. Looking great. I would give this dose a few cycles before considering an increase. Where are you with food? Is he on all wet low carb or are you still switching over?

 

He's on all wet low carb; friskies pate classics
amps today was 255
))))))))))))
Another thing today when I got his blood I got it on my finger bc he moved his head and so I took it on the stick from that, would that affect the # at all? I didn't think it would but I thought about it and i dont know if it's supposed to be like, sterile?

 

Ideally, you want to get it directly from the ear to the strip, but at this point, it's more important that you get those tests in, any way you can. For cats that are harder to deal with, we recommend running a fingernail under the blood drop and testing it from there, so I doubt if getting it on your finger itself is going to be a problem (unless you had just stuck your finger into some maple syrup or something :lol: :lol:

 

Now that you have some data, how about setting up a spreadsheet? It is a great color coded tool that helps you, your vet and us to see your history of doses and numbers at a glance. It's a Google doc so you need to be signed into Google. Here are the directions:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

 

Yea I know I'll update the spreadsheet probably tomorrow but I can't do it from my iPod and that's probably what I'm gonna do from now on is get the blood on my finger because it is sooooo difficult to put the stick next to his ear because he'll flick his head or get up and then i have to sit him back down by scratching him and ugh its nervewracking when theres a good blood thing on his ear that im waiting to get it but he doesn know :lol:
but so today I couldn't get a midcycle one the first try he moved his head and the blood dried up, the second try I got an error because the blood was all over the stick(he moved), third try another error because not enough blood and the fourth try after i waited about an hour was the same thing so by then I was just like :-x
but the amps was 255 and the pmps was 234 and the same error thing happened again tonight the first try and like ??? apparently I'm not getting enough blood ever and im also using already used test strips :roll:

 

You can only use the strips once or you will get an error message. Keep trying (3 times and then reward for you both) You will get a routine down that works for both of you. Those preshot numbers are in a nice range.

 

Yea he's doing really good too
Couldn't get amps
7+ today was 99 with a little food grazing 4-5 hrs earlier
Pmps was 212
And I did it twice within 10 minutes because Im starting to put the blood on my finger since it's a lot easier, and there it was 212; I checked again directly from his ear because he gets relaxed in the kitchen if I don't feed him immediately so I was able to stick the strip next his ear w/o him moving and got 211, so I don't think my finger changes it too much as long as it's cleaned

 

What I do is get everything together, then call China (she comes when I call her because she knows she's going to get something yummy). I put the strip into the meter and put it down next to her. I poke her ear and gently "milk" it a little to get a good drop and then hold the ear tip with my left hand and pick the meter up in my right. (Since I have her on a shelf on my entertainment center, if I have to, I can use my right elbow and my body to keep her where I want her) I stick the strip into the drop and put the meter down. Grab cosmetic pad and gently press and hold to ear for 15-20 seconds so it doesn't bruise.

I know some people wait until they get the blood drop to put the strip into the meter, but I've found I have about 2 minutes from the time I put the strip in to when the meter will "time out" and I can almost always get a blood drop in that time frame.

As you and Bemmer get more experience, it'll become a lot easier! In the meantime, do whatever works

 

Didn't really want to use the 911 but just in case my cats amps was 68; he's eating right now but I didn't hive him his shot. Physically he seems like he's been the last week since he started, which has been really good. What do I do?

 

Don't give a shot! More in second post

 

68 is a lovely number. He is reacting well to the food change and insulin. 68 is a long way from the 200 we would suggest you dose, so unless you can chase the number until it reaches 200 and work with an altered 12/12 schedule, I'd suggest skipping.

You are giving one unit, right? If so, it is time to reduce the dose. If you skip this am, he may be higher tonight since it will have been have 24 hours since the last shot and because he may bounce up from the lower number, but I would still slower the dose to .5 - assuming he is above 200 tonight.

This is great news but a little scary the first time you see that first number under 100.

 

So tonight would I do .5 rather than the 1 unit if he's under 200 or skip?
He's sitting with me right now
Sorry I haven't updated the spreadsheet but I have no right now computer and google docs wont open on my iPod :-x :-x
But all his #'s in the last 5 days since starting testing have been blues and greens

 

Yes, i would lower the dose. Some lucky cats react right away to the insulin and food change and don't stay on insulin long. Their beans have to be careful and gradually reduce the dose.

 

+6 was 177
Good or not? This is w/o insulin shot this morning by the way bc he was low at 68 at amps

 

That is a little higher than we like to see. You may be in a situation of chasing the glucose level and only shooting when high enough.

If you get some U-100 syringes, you can use a conversion chart to shoot very low 0.2 units at a time. This is because Prozinc is a U-40 insulin and has only 40 units per mL, unlike a U-100 insulin wit 100 units per mL. Thus, ProZinc is 40% as strong, in terms of units per mL. The marks on a U-100 syringe can be multiplied by 0.4 to get what they would be for a U-40 insulin.
0.5 mark * 0.4 = 0.2 units of Prozinc
1.0 mark * 0.4 = 0.4 units of Prozinc
1.5 mark * 0.4 = 0.6 units of Prozinc
and so on.

 

I don't think that is a bad number at all. Considering he was at 68 amps and didn't get a shot, he has only come up 90 points and without insulin. It looks like he will be near 200 at shot time tonight. I would plan to give .5 and monitor. If you get a number 2-3 hours after the evening shot, you can get an idea of how the cycle is going to go.

As BJ said, it looks like small doses may be in your future. You can shoot under .5 with the U100 syringes and the conversion chart. Lots of PZI users do that.

 

Ok so I can't get the u100's right now so tonight if I give him .5 would I be able to just do it by eyeballing the syringe, like I'll just get the dose to the half mark as close as I can..... There is no half mark but I think you get what I'm saying :lol:
I guess I'll update later tonight to see how this works :smile:
and since I haven't given him the shot in 24 hrs, would it be alright if I switched his shot time back to a 7am/7pm schedule like how I've been trying to do(I've been going back by like 15 minutes once a day from a10/10 schedule) as long as he's over 200? Or is that like too much time back too soon?

 

Yes, you can switch back.

If you can eyeball 0.25, I think I'd go with that. Or try the following.

Making a Cardboard Reference Gauge for Half Units or Smaller.

If your syringes do not have half unit marks, you may approximate a measurement reference using a compass, a ruler, a fineline pencil, and some white cardboard (for sturdiness). This is most useful for U-40 syringes.

Draw a line equal to the length of 1 unit based on the syringe you are using. (If you change syringes, you may need to repeat this process.)

Using the compass, position the pin at one end of the line.

Set the compass angle to draw a small circle which is slightly more than halfway across the line.

Keeping the compass at the exact same angle, position it at the other end of the line and draw another circle.

The circles should overlap; if not, make the circles slightly bigger.

Using the ruler, draw a straight line between the 2 points of intersection between the circles; this marks 1/2 unit on the original line. (This line will be perpendicular to your original line.)

Repeat the process using 1 end of the full line, and the halfway point; that will get you about 1/4 unit.

If you can repeat it again, that would get you 1/8 unit.

 

You mean eyeball .5 on u40's, not .25 right?

 

It depends on how high he is.

If barely over 150 mg/dL, I might go with 0.25 as best I could measure it, unless I could be around to monitor.

If over 200 mg/dL, I might go with the 0.5, especially if I could be there to monitor.

At 300 and up, 0.5 probably wouldn't need monitoring, so if you needed to sleep rather than test and possibly feed low numbers, that'd work.

 

okay, well so right now i did the pmps and he's at 251; so give the shot at .5? and ill check him again tonight at like 12...

 

Yes, I'd give .5. When is 12? (I'm not in your time zone). I'd check him about three hours after the shot to see how things look.

 

woops sorry i'm in est time so it's 7:26 pm right now and ill check him at around 10:30-11pm
I got pretty darn close to .5, may have been .6 but it looked like .5. I hope this works :roll:
Oo0oOo I updated the spreadsheet by the way, so all numbers are there

 

Eeeek 4+ was 188; usually he's been in the low 100's by now nailbite_smile
Should I switch back to one unit tomorrow?

 

Remember, he's been high for awhile...another day or two isn't going to hurt him. As long as he's under the renal threshold (about 240) and acting fine, he'll be ok. Even if he goes higher than 240, it just means he's spilling glucose over into his urine.

If he goes really high, or starts acting sick, check for ketones, and if more than a trace, that's an emergency, but if he's never had ketones before, one cycle a little higher than you're used to isn't anything I'd worry about.

Since you're eyeballing the dose, it's really hard to say how much you actually gave him. Once you get the other syringes, it might be easier to get the dose decreased and consistent.

 

so since I'm going to have to eyeball it for like 2 more days, if he's over 200 when I check him in the morning, which will be in like 3 hours, is it safe to give him .5 and see how that works? And if he starts getting higher than 250 or if hes in the 200's throughout the day do I switch it back to 1 unit or continue with .5?
I'm just nervous because his numbers have been pretty nice and then this morning it was like NOSE DIVE = 68 and like, I don't want him to get higher either and ughyfffhgds this is scary @-)

 

If he's over 200, yes,I think I'd give him the .5 and see how he does. Since you're using Pro Zinc, you can really wait until the PMPS tonight to decide on that dose.

68 is a GREAT number!! As long as it doesn't drop below 50, that's a wonderful pancreas healing number :mrgreen:

 

I think he is looking fine. Sometimes it takes a cycle to settle into a dose. Think of the process as collecting data. You are seeing what a .5 dose does; you are seeing what one unit does. He is in safe ranges. Keep collecting numbers - they will show us what each dose did and how to proceed.

But, as some wise person said, this is a marathon, not a sprint. He didn't become diabetic in a week; he won't be "cured" in a week. Remember to breathe. :mrgreen:

 

Hahaaha If only they could be cured in a week how nice would that be :smile: well that's good bc I thought 68 was a really low # but apparently it's pretty nice too
So I tried to get the amps but the first two times I pricked him good but he immediately shook his head so there was splattered blood on my leg, his neck, legs, chest and the fridge which looked soo weird lollilolol so I waited an hour until 7 and he was super hungry bc it was like 13+ so he was being wicked fussy when I tried to prick him and it was the first time he tried to attack my arm, but it seemed a lot more playful than angry and so I just fed him and gave him the shot because he seemed normal and he wouldn't stop purring so I felt kind of bad withholding the food :YMSIGH:
It would so much easier if he'd let me hold him but I have to do it in front of him, but he hates having things near his face(like most normal cats) so it's a little struggle unless I surprise him when he's relaxed :lol:

 

Sorry about the "blood bath" this am. It will get easier, promise. Anytime you need to, you can get a spot of blood on your fingernail and test from there.

68 was a nice number. We were a little nervous as it was early in the cycle. Usually ProZinc kitties continue to drop until +5-7 hours after the shot.

Here is a note from a diabetic kitty that may make you smile:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671

And here is a huge document about ProZinc that may help you figure out this sugar dance:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799
(It's also good for putting yourself to sleep at night.....)

 

+6 was 148; may have eaten a little bit but I was asleep so I have no idea if he did but if he did, since he's been on insulin the amount he eats when he does during the day is pretty small(cup your hand and that's about how much it is)
oO0oOoo I'm reading those links right now I need to study lol :razz:

 

+11 was 226 :mrgreen: Technically this was the pmps bc I gave him the shot and fed since tomorrow I have to push it back an hour bc I have to drive my mom to work
Seems like my eyeballing the smaller dose is slowly working an putting his numbers lower like on the 1 unit
I'll check him again in 4-5 hours
Ohhh my gosh and edit: I don't know if it was the smaller dose or what but today was the first time he actually played with my other cat which he hasn't chased in like 2 months but omg it happened this morning and I was like WOOOOAAAHHH bcatrun_gif

 

What a lovely update! It is so nice when they start acting like themselves again.

 

+5 from pmps he's at 112; too low or good..?
Seems okay; he's about to sleep like every other night, so maybe he's relaxed? :roll:


Edit: 11+ he's at 235 (!!!!yay!!!!); fed and shot because I had to leave (technically was amps) and this is the last time iI have to switch his shot hour, so now he is on a 6am/6pm schedule WOOOOO
and I'll get the other syringes this week bc I still have to call the vet :lol:

 

He is looking great. Probably time to start a new thread since this one has gone to two pages and the topic no longer applies :mrgreen: you two are no longer lost!. You can also post to the PZI forum and introduce yourself. Everyone there uses your insulin. It is interesting to see how their kitties are doing and check other's spreadsheets and progress.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=24

 

sweet, I made a new post on the pzi forum
I guess ill stay over there ?? :mrgreen: This is exciting

 

Crapcrap he's at 376 +12 do I go to one unit or stay at .5

Edit: ehhh I gave him near one unit instead of the half.... His numbers are weird :?

 

I'm not familiar with Pro Zinc dosing other than it's more based on the pre-shot numbers than Lantus or Levemir...It's usually a sliding scale, like if the pre-shot is XXX, you give xxx, if it's 2XX, you give xxx, etc., so I think it was probably a good idea to increase to 1 unit if the preshot was that high

Get a +2 and that can give you some idea of where he's going to go tonight

 

That should be okay, but I would get another test tonight before bed. The problem is you can't be sure whether this pmps is just a higher number, or whether he went lower at midcycle and is bouncing. Anytime you can get a number midcycle, it helps fill out the puzzle of this dance, where only Beemer hears the music. :mrgreen:

 

Yea I'll get the one at +2 :/
why would it spike like that though if he's been okay the last two days? Does that just happen if the dose is too low or..? Bc he hasn't been near 400 since he was at the vet= near 2 weeks ago

 

There's no way to know for sure at this point. Bouncing happens when the liver freaks out because the blood glucose is lower that it's "used to" so it releases hormones and sugar to bring it back up quickly.

If he went real low during his AM cycle, he could be bouncing. Or he might need a bigger dose..Or he saw a strange dog out the window that stressed him out. Or he got into some food he shouldn't have. There are just so many reasons for wonky test results. That's why we keep saying the same thing over and over again...that home testing is the only way to learn how your kitty responds to insulin and food.

Don't be discouraged by one number though. If you look at China's spreadsheet when we first started, she was all over the place too. It's just going to take time...and testing

 

Lollilol omg it's not funny but wooow her numbers were all over :shock:
Just kinda sucked bc maybe it was too early to try out a lower dose?? his numbers were good but it was the couple of low #'s and I was like uhhmmm....
And then even though his numbers have been good theyve been a little higher than they were on 1 unit... Idk but the vet said he'd rather have him hyper than hypo so I guess it's not that bad :roll:
So if tomorrow I check him and he's like 200-250 do I give him 1 unit because I'm not gonna be home all day, I have to go to my sisters

 

I Would be cautious and give .5 if he is in the 200-250 range. Better too high for a day than too low for a minute if you won't be around to monitor. It's early days yet and we really don't have much data to base doses on. Soon we'll be able to look back and say that he went this low on this dose or didn't get much movement on this dose and better determine what dose is better.

 

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=106368
Moved topic since I'm no longer lost :razz: