Low .. High ... and now Low again ....

We switched Sammy's food, her numbers plummetted today. She was down as low as 3.2. Now she is back up to 19 just now pre evening feed. We were giving her 1.75u. Spreadsheet in my sig is updated with a curve I took today.

Advice I had this afternoon was to skip her shot tonight. Now that she is back up to 19, I'm not sure if I should give her a shot or not.

She also does not seem interested in her food whatsoever.

Thanks in advance.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

I would maybe give that 1u and test again in 2 hours to see where she's at.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Do you have some medium carb gravy in case she drops fairly low? I think you guys will be safe, especially after she did all right on the 1.75u this morning, but just to be on the safe side.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

I have syrup if needed. She has eaten and I've given her 1u. I am going to run home and grab my pajamas

(This is Linda's son Brian who is kitty sitting while they are away)

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

You are a great babysitter! :thumbup

Not sure what your schedule is like, but if you can, try and grab a +5. (Maybe set an alarm?) If you can't, get a test before you go to bed to make sure she's not dropping too low and leave some wet food out for her to eat throughout the night.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

At +2 we are at 25.4

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Hi Brian, just thought I'd stop by and say "hello" from a near neighbour. It looks like Sammy's liver is reacting to all those lovely green numbers she saw today. So you get to sleep at a reasonable time tonight. Normally, if the +2 reading is the same as or below the preshot number, you have to pay more attention in that cycle.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

One more thing, would it be possible to take the 911 icon off your first post? We like to save those for medical emergencies and it looks like Sammy is safe for the night. Thanks.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Thanks Wendy

Yep I have updated to remove the icon.

Glad to hear that Sammy should be good for the night

Thanks again all!

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

She was 22.8 (410) this morning PS. She ate and has had her shot of 1u.

I'll see how she reacts to that. I should be testing around +5? Shes getting uphappy about all of the testing, curling her ears etc. I think its just been a lot in the last 24 hours.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Just noting I posted in your other thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=107193

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

She is at 21.1 at +2. So down a little bit from this morning.

Wendy, thanks for your post on the other thread, that info is awesome. I'll leave her at 1.0u at least for a few days and hope that the BG drops normally, as long as things stay consistent.

Regards Brian

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Make sure you're giving her treats after every test. cat_pet_icon The reason we recommend grabbing tests between +5 to +7 to see how low she might be dropping since that's usually the lowest point (nadir) of the Lantus cycle. So if she's going to drop super low, it'll most likely be sometime around then.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

I am giving her treats. I am also going to make a point of putting her in her "test spot", giving her tons of love, and treats, but no test. Just to try to get her back into the swing of things

Her ears seems to be getting quite beat up Anything I can do to help that? I don't think I'm being overly aggressive or anything. I think they may actually be sore for her now

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Until you get used to testing you can expect some bruising. If you apply a little pressure on the wound after poking for 20 secs it should help prevent bruising. And apply a little smear of neosporin ointment (with pain relief) after as well.And you can try moving the poky site a little as well.

Wendy

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

As Wendy said, the key is to apply pressure after the poke to stem the bleeding and bruising. The first two weeks or so, the ears definitely look terrible! I thought that was how they were going to permanently look, but right around the time they start learning to bleed better, the bruising also clears up. You can't even tell which ear I test Mikey on (mostly his right), or that I even test him at all!

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

At +7 she was at 20.4 (367). I wanted to get over there for a +5, but life intervened. So I don't know what she dropped to. Spreadsheet is in my sig.

I think I will stay with the status quo at the moment. Stick with 1u since she is on the new food and see the reaction after a day or two. Someone had mentioned that it may take up to 72 hours before she evens out after that drop yesterday.

Any advice differently?

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

That sounds like a good plan. :thumbup We can always change it come tomorrow depending on how her numbers are.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

19.4 this AMPS I am keeping it at 1.0u as I'm really curious where she will end up today. I think tonights test will give me an idea of how much the new food is really impacting her. Agreed?

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Hi Brian...... mom here. I think that is a good plan.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

If you can, try grabbing some mid-cycle (+5-+7) tests today to see how low she's going. If she's still flat, I might suggest upping her dose to 1.25u tonight. The 1u seems to be too low at the moment so if we don't start seeing some better numbers, we can chock it up as too much of a decrease and get her back on track again with some lower numbers. :mrgreen:

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

She was 25.9 PS last night and then 23.7 PS this morning. I've got some errands to run this morning but I should be able to do a few tests today. We live about 10 minutes away from my parents and yesterday was a busy day for us, so it was hard to get here mid-day.

I am going to increase a minor amount on this shot. The syringes we have are marked every 1u, so its basically a "fat 1u", probably close to 1.25 ... I'm also going to look for different syringes this morning and I have to buy more tests trips.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

She is 15.2 at +6.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

That's already looking better. Hold this dose for about 3 days/6 cycles as she should continue to drop lower while the depot builds up.

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

She fell to 8.8 for her PMPS. Thats "no shot" territory, so I'm not shooting her.

I assume food is good?

 

Re: Numbers plummetted, but back high - dosing advise pls

Looks like she may have gotten sick Puke near her bed. Doesn't look like a hairball puke. May explain the low PM reading here?

 

Re: Low .. High ... and now Low again - dosing advice needed

No food, tested again. 8.5 this time. Not sure what I should do Feed?

 

I have gone with "no shoot, but feed". Hope its the correct answer

 

If she threw up food, that's probably why she's lower since food is what makes BGs rise. You did right by skipping because if she's throwing up/not feeling well, her BGs will probably remain relatively low from the lack of food. Maybe she's allergic to a particular type of food? What kind did she throw up?

 

She has a bad canine (which needs to get pulled)... appears she was not chewing her treats at all. What she threw up was unchewed whole treats... so my guess is she gagged on them? Not sure.

But the wet food was FF Turkey Pate.

 

I'm not sure what part of the Island you live on, but there is a vet certified in dentistry in Sidney at Dean Park Vet Hospital. One of our other members in Victoria has use them before for dental work and been quite happy with them.

I hope Sammy feels better in the morning and keeps the rest of her food down.

 

Could have been scarf and barf - they eat too fast when excited and throw it right back up.

You did the right thing by skipping. Now we wait to have the depot build back up again to see how the dose will really be working. However read this on shooting low (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147). The mantra is shoot low to stay low - over time owners need to learn to shoot at progressively numbers to keep their cat in lower numbers. But its not safe to do that until you have data to support that. And pm tests are very important here as many cats drop low at night.

Also need to get that canine pulled. Any infection can spike BG and be exacerbating the diabetes.

Wendy

 

Wendy, thatooth has to wait until i get home from Mexico. I will find a good person to do it.

Linda

 

Sounds good. Hows Mexico.. hope you are having a great time.. your son is doing a great job with sammy!

 

Shes back low again tonight, 11.7, while its not as low as the PM shot before (8.8) I think I should probably skip as she has thrown up again this morning and again this afternoon. Not large amounts, but its not a good sign . I'm giving her a different FF tonight (turkey this time) ... I'll see if that has an impact, maybe she isn't agreeing with the new food.

Thoughts?

 

11.7 (211) is higher than the no shot number here, but if she's not keeping her food down that's not good. Are you feeding her small amounts at a time? That might help keep more down so you can shoot.

 

Well shes not scarfing and barfing. She wasn't eating well .. she needed coaxing to eat the last few days (which is unusual). She was eating small amounts to start with. I really think she hasn't been feeling well at all.

Her brother is a pig, now he scarfs

When I got there today she looked MUCH more energetic, she took her test like a champ and then wanted her food, ate right away. So I think shes feeling better. She was also more vocal, which is much more like her. The puke tonight was less "food" and more just "liquid hairball" .. so may not be unusual.

I decided not to shoot. I was told anything around 11 is no shoot at this early stage. And I didn't feel comfortable as I can't stay there tonight to do a night check.

I hope she feels better tomorrow.

 

I'm glad to hear she's feeling better now. A hairball could put her off her food. Diabetic friendly hair ball prevention includes a small piece of unsalted butter (if she can tolerate dairy) or cold pressed virgin coconut oil. Commercial hairball meds are mostly vaseline plus malt so too sweet.

ETA: If she's feeling better now, she might be grooming more.

 

No puke! She was 19.3 this morning and still her chatty little self. She looks like she just got up from a nap though (and her bed is warm).

Wasn't as quick to the food as last night, but is munching it down none-the-less. Hopefully we have a good reading again tonight. If she goes low again I will be able to stay the night to check on her if shes that borderline reading.

19.3 doesn't seem bad considering the last time I didn't shoot she went way up to 26.3 from 8.8.

Here's hoping for a better day for Sammy!

 

Linda here. Sammy is a rather pukey kinda girl at the best of times. Always has been. I vote its a hairball.

 

Do you guys feed cat grass at all? I've found that really helps Mikey with any digestion problems, hair balls, etc....

 

3.6 PS PM, so no shot ... She threw up several times today. Shes allergic to fish. I gave her turkey last night, no issues. Fish this morning, puke again. Its been puke every time she got white fish or salmon.

No more fish for Sammy!

(These are NOT hairball pukes. They are thick food stained with no hair in them at all.)

 

That makes sense. Lots of cats are allergic to fish. Some, like Mikey, are allergic to red meats and there are even a few allergic to poultry. I created this sorted version of the catinfo.org nutritional list with tabs separating out non-seafood, seafood, and poultry foods that might be of help.

 

Thanks!

We are learning more and more about our dear little Sammy. This is definitely an adventure!

 

Maybe this post will help you with any questions you have about the needed dental work and help you to find a good vet to do what is needed to pull that tooth.

Sort of pulls together a compendium of great dental info for you. Hope it helps.

 

You might want to try dropping her back to 1 unit. You need to find a dose you can give consistently and not skip

Wendy

 

They were skipping because of the puking. ohmygod_smile

I think that if she's fine now and no more vomit, her numbers will stabilize a bit more and you'll be able to give those 2 shots a day again at the 1.25u dose.

 

I was skipping because of the puking. If you see the spreadsheet the puking coincided with the low numbers .. however not tonight.

She was 7.0 PS PM ... meaning no shoot again. But NO PUKE since she didn't eat fish. So this time its low, but not related to the puking. She definitely ate a lot this morning (my mom even watched her on the kittycam!). I am a little later than normal feeding them (about an hour), but I doubt that would cause it.

I will test in the AM and try to get a 5, 6 and 7 tomorrow (I will be able to work from my moms tomorrow). That hopefully will give us a better idea on what her numbers are doing. I could drop to 1.0, but I'd like to see what the numbers look like mid-day tommorrow.

Should I drop to 1.0 in the morning and test ... or keep at 1.25 and see where we are at?

 

It couldn't hurt to drop to 1u tomorrow, but since you skipped tonight, you'll probably see higher numbers anyway during the AM cycle and possibly even the PM cycle. I'd hold at 1u for now till she finishes making up for what she puked. Then, if she's still higher, increase back to 1.25u.

 

She read 20.4 PS this AM. I gave her 1u. She is down to 13.5 at +3. I will test at +5 again.

 

Looks like she's already coming down. :thumbup

 

I was late on her test, this is closer to +6 than +5, but she is at 6.6 right now.

 

+6 is fine. Anywhere between +5-7 is the "typical" nadir/low point, so she may still come down a little more, but that's a great number to see right then. If she's over 200 again tonight, continue shooting the 1u.

 

Down to 5.4 at +7. So we should expect to see her start come back up now, right?

 

Maybe. Every cat is different and the dose is still settling from the skip the other night. I would get another test in an hour.

 

Down to 5.0 at +8 ... wow ...

 

Don't frown! Those are some great numbers! When was the last time she ate?

 

4.9 at +9. She ate most of her food this morning. She has nibbled a little since, but nothing major.

 

I have to head out now, so I won't be able to take another test in an hour. I'll be back in to do her next shot. I'll stir her little bit of food up, see if she gets interested.

 

5.6 at +11, does it make sense that the nadir is around +8 or +9? Should I be making some sort of adjustment to her shots or food?

 

Also .. its highly doubtful she will be at 11 in an hour. So it looks like we will be skipping tonight again. I feel like I should be reducing her further. She was 1u this morning. Should I go down to 0.5? If I am understanding correctly, we need to find a dose that I can give her consistently so we can start bringing it down gradually ...

 

Some cats do have later nadirs, like my Neko. And some zoom up in the last hour so she could be high enough yet. And you are correct on wanting to dose twice a day. Do you think you could try .75U? 1U seems like a bit much.

 

Yep, I agree with Wendy to drop it down to .75u in the morning if she's over 11.

 

I didn't post yesterday, but take a look at her SS. I gave 0.75 yesterday, again, she was too high at night to shoot!

I'll do the same today and we will see where she ends up tonight.

 

The numbers are looking really good on this .75u dose even if you had to skip last night. I think it might be time for you to start looking into shooting low pre-shots so you don't have to keep skipping and we can get those numbers down further. We use 200/11 as the "no shot number" on the Main Health Forum till we can get enough data on how the cat reacts and then you can start dropping that no shot number and give a shot when they're between 150-200 and monitor them and see how they react. The Lantus TR forum even uses 150 as their default "no shot number." Eventually, you'll get to the point either where the cat is heading toward remission (paws crossed for you guys!) or you'll be able to give shots at really low numbers to keep those numbers low across the board (if I'm home to monitor, I've often given Mikey shots when he's in double-digits).

 

Can you post your cat's diet in your signature line? What are you feeding? Thanks!

 

I agree with Kay - shooting low is the key to getting Sammy to stay in good numbers.. and possibly into remission

 

At this point my mom is home in 3 days, so I'm in "keep her good" mode until then. Since my mom will be able to test in the middle of the night etc. I'll let her figure out the low shots

Tonight she is 12.8 so I'm giving her a shot.

Thanks everyone