Mabel

Discussion in 'Honeymooners / OTJ' started by Emmy, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    I, Emmy, want to offer what I can in the way of experience with Mabel's diabetes and remission whilst I have access to internet. Normally I rely on my phone to get online and it is harder to see how this Web site is structured and unwieldy to write anything lengthy, though I do read and the site has helped us through.

    I posted today at the supply closet and am reposting here the description of how we slogged through Mabel's diagnosis and treatment. On diagnosis of diabetes Oct 17, 2016, a 500+ BG reading at the vet, I was given the oral med glipizide. That was a big mistake. It was toxic to Mabel's liver. She was throwing up so badly I stopped that quickly. I was lucky she recovered. She went on Prozinc instead but her BG ricocheted all over the place. Then we tried a Lantus pen, drawing it out by syringe. Lantus stung her, so she hated shots, but it stabilized her better than Prozinc. Because Lantus stung her (I guess because I poked myself and it stung me!), I next tried Levemir (with the gracious help of the nonprofit group Diabetic Cats in Need). I constantly attempted to make improvements and also switched at that time to a 31G 6mm BD syringe. Mabel stabilized on Levemir and in April, 2017, I was able to stop regular doses of Levemir. She remains in remission, largely.

    Our experience: BG readings, suitable insulin, the lo carb diet, hydration (probably the subcutaneous fluids I administered when she was potentially dehydrated)--all these and more which includes the cat's own perception and trust--I would think these all are important. I know very little except it is complicate and there are many variables and surely every cat is different.

    I want to share an abbreviated version of my cats' illness during January, 2018. I had ordered another new bag of Young Again Zero Mature. Both Mabel and younger not diabetic Ady threw up and had loose stinky stools. The bout of illness, especially the diarrhea was worse in Mabel. (I wrote about this under other threads here at FDMB as I was searching for answers at the time.) I did not immediately connect the upset to the YA food because Mabel had eaten YA before without getting ill. (Although as I wrote on the other thread, I had once received a bag of YA food that had obvious blue mold, and reported that to the company, which replaced it.) When cats get sick though there are variables to analyze. Finally, though, having removed other variables, I had removed the YA food, and soon Mabel became well. Ady had already recovered, but she had never taken to YA food and likely had not eaten much from the new bag. I think Ady may have had an allergy to the food from the git-go, but can't go into that more here. I not only contacted Young Again foods, but because I was not satisfied with the company's response, I also then wrote a detailed report which I sent to the MN Dept of Ag Pet Food and Animal Feed Safety Div. Young Again is a MN company. I had a couple of phone conversations with a rep from that agency who assured me they would follow up with the company. I thought filing a report in the best interest of food safety for all of our pets in view of the marketing of the YA food for our diabetic cats.

    Epilogue: I no longer buy Young Again food at all! My diabetic cat Mabel is currently getting Orijen Fit and Trim for kibble. Ady likes Orijen Cat and Kitten kibble and sometimes Mabel eats some of that too. I feed both cats Friskie's pates (I know, oh dear, but Ady especially rejects higher quality canned foods, and at least Friskies pates have lower phosphorus than the oh so popular Fancy Feast. Additionally, Mabel only likes the sauce I make by adding hot water to the lo carb pate. Ady eats what's left.) I am consoled that both like to eat Orijen kibble between wet food meals because, at least, I think, that's well-sourced food, still.

    And Mabel is still in remission on this diet.
     
  2. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Do you know what the carbs are on the Orijen kibble? Just curious...
     
  3. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Orijen prints carb info on the very bottom of their bags, and all their varieties I have seen are guaranteed under 20% carb. I started using their kibble for treats because of what I understood was carefully sourced ingredients, relatively high protein content, and carbs that are at least low glycemic. Recently, undergoing yet another diet transition, I wrote to the company and a rep wrote back that in her experience diabetic cats do best on Orijen Fit & Trim. She wrote it is 16% carb , and I just looked and that's also on the bag. In my experience it has also helped Mabeel have more regular bowel movements, too. Regarding the carbs, I can't prevent Mabel from sneaking some of Ady's Orijen Cat & Kitten which is higher in carbs, but it isn't causing problems. Importantly, I don't free feed the Orijen. They get small amounts throughout the day when they're hungry. I can do this because largely I work from my apartment. The frequent small feedings may be why it's working for Mabel. It isn't necessarily easy to do though and I often wonder how it's affecting their psyches. Note, I think giving wet food is also very important. I read Lisa Pierson (her book and on this site) and I have used her charts a lot as we've gone through the diet transition journey. Another note, while I am scared of what's actually in the Purina canned foods, they are easier on the budget than the expensive canned foods, and moreover, I believe Lisa that indoor cats need the moisture in the canned food. Speaking of "easier on the budget," I used to buy the Orijen in the 14 oz bags at a nearby independently owned pet store where they charged right around $5 for those small bags. Because we now rely on the Orijen for our kibble, I ordered the 4 lb bags of Orijen Fit & Trim and Orijen Cat & Kitten from Allivet online. Total cost was $45 because I found a $5 coupon online to apply to the purchase. Shipping was free for a 50$ order and it arrived so fast it stunned me. I had requested the expiration dates be at least a year and they sent packages with expiration dates of July 2019, so it is fresh. You could contact Orijen at their web site. Maybe they send samples. I contacted both Wysong online about their Epigen 90. I paid part of the postage and they sent a slew of samples, none of which Mabel can eat because of carb content. I contacted them again and they sent a sample of the Epigen 90, but as they have recently changed the formulation I am still waiting to hear back about the carb content. What I do know about Epigen 90 though is it is extremely high protein and can give kitties diarrhea. After what we went through with Young Again and changes in ingredients and diarrhea and vomiting, I feel wary of the very high protein foods. However, I'm not ruling Epigen 90 out as treats, just waiting to hear. You can read more about that on the Wysong web site. This is a long answer to a short question.

    I saw Magic's numbers. He's doing better on Prozinc than Mabel did, it looks like. You're using an Alphatrak meter, I see. My vet had loaned me an Alphatrak but buying those strips was prohibitive for me and I eventually turned to the human meters like the Relion Confirm from Walmart and later because the Accuchek Aviva and the Bayer Contour were free with a coupon found online (because they want to get you going buying their test strips no doubt), I used those meters and got their test strips from e-bay.

    I hope any of this helps anybody in need. While I was coping with Mabel's active diabetes I had no time to give back but I often turned to this Web site and this forum to read what other people were writing. I couldn't for the life of me understand how anyone found the time to post all their readings. But then I had limited access to Internet, and still do for the most part, and that, I guess makes a big difference. My warm wishes for healing, Emmy
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  4. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Thank you very much for your reply :)
     
  5. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    My Mabel is back on insulin w bg in 200s daily so I am giving her .5 u Lev x1 daily. I am most concerned now with finding lower carb kibble because I suspect the Orijen Fit & Trim, which is 16% carb, which is a supplement to wet food I feed x2 daily. She had been doing okay on the Orijen Fit & Trim but after I ordered a 12 lb bag because she was doing well, her numbers went up. I always first look to the food and I suspect Champion/Orijen of a slip up with this lot or the larger bag. However, I realize, of course, there can be other variables.

    I am researching other kibble to find something lo carb. Mabel likes her kibble; she'll only lick the moisture off the lo-carb canned pates. I know about Epigen and Epigen 90 and the whole Wysong line (though Wysong mistakenly first sent all the wrong samples, had to be reminded to let me know when their nutritional analysis info update was posted, couldn't provide me with names of retailers in Minnesota that carry their canned food, wouldn't send samples of it, and were generally, I thought, snooty).

    Young Again is out because I've had two bad bags, the first of which was moldy, the second which made both my cats very very ill.

    I'm not sure where to turn for other lo carb kibble.

    Where else do I post this, I wonder?
     
  6. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
  7. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    I am online only intermittently, but here's an update on Mabel. While she had been in remission for about a year, her blood sugar elevated when I started feeding her from a newly arrived 12 lb bag of Orijen Fit & Trim. She had been eating Orijen Fit & Trim from the 14 oz or 4 lb bags of food I had been buying at a nearby retailer for several months without problems. I immediately suspected the carb content in the 12 lb bag I had ordered from an online retailer was higher. I wrote the online retailer and I wrote Champion, which now owns and produces Orijen. The online retailer would not take the opened 12 lb bag back but did offer token credit. Customer care at Champion sent me a voucher for a smaller bag of Orijen at my request. I bought a 4 lb bag of the Fit & Trim at my nearby retailer. After two weeks and some days of elevated blood sugar requiring me to put her back on Levemir, then within two days of feeding from the smaller bag of Orijen Mabel's blood sugar went back to normal and she does not now require insulin. I have been communicating with customer care at Champion, giving them the identification numbers on the 12 and 4 lb bags of food because I interpret these as coming from different lots at the very least. I don't know about different plants. I have written them how critical it is to those of us with diabetic cats that the carb content in their food is what they claim it is on the bags and on their website guaranteed analysis. I am getting the run around from them, of course. And they haven't yet fully compensated me for the 12 lbs of food, which I am asking them to do since I cannot use it. I'll give it to a place in the country where I know they are feeding a lot of feral cats because those cats are always very hungry. I sort of don't trust Orijen any more not just because of this but because of the class action law suit which is directed toward truth in advertising about their dog food. It makes me wonder about those problems in their production and if they spread to the cat food. But for now, Mabel is back on Orijen Fit & Trim from the 4 lb bags which apparently comes from a different lot at least that the distributor that serves my nearby retailer uses. The difficulty of all this is time consuming and stressful. I have learned this though--first, look to the food.

    Emmy, Mabel & Ady
     
  8. Chrissy66

    Chrissy66 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2018
    Emmy I used to Feed Candi Nulo Dry Food before we swapped her over to all canned food but again by the same people. I have always been leary of ordering stuff for that very reason. I have always shopped at Petsmart and never had a problem. I have taken back a many of bags just because Picky Butt got where she didn't like them. She used to eat Science Diet then we changed to Wellness she ate that for a little bit then got where she didn't want that, tried Blue Buffalo she got where nope she didn't want that then it was Nulo and it has been a winner for years. LOL!!! I don't know the Carb % though.
     
  9. Emmy

    Emmy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Mabel requires insulin again with typical BG around 200+ these days. I am in process of trying to get her new supplies as well as, importantly, figure out the food. If only she didn't like kibble so much. I don't trust young again after two bad experiences with YA zero. And either Origen fit & trim is too high carb, or too variable in carb content (it worked for quite awhile) or something else is happening with her. The old challenges are back in a new way. I empathize with what you all are going through too.
     

Share This Page