Magic - BG balancing!

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Magic Johnson, Mar 8, 2018.

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  1. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Started new thread.

    We got this!!!
    ...on the BG testing...the foot toes work and I have (OOPS 8) of those to choose from and ALL WHITE FUR:bighug:

    186 this morning... We're in the blue...we're in the blue! :D

    last night was 210 so not too bad considering where we were yo-yo-ing 300+ points up or down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Reason for edit: I keep thinking she has 5 toes each and not 4... LOL
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  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Excellent! Maybe a curve on the weekend? Before bed test on work days? :)
     
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  3. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    OK - I don’t know anything about the curve? Can you direct me????

    Thank you...I feel kinda dumb as I heard the curve mentioned but I know nothing about it...except I’m guessing it’s measuring over time?
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    All a curve involves is taking a Bg measurement every 2 hours between the AM shot and PM shot. So you do the AM pre shot test (no food 2 hours before as per our recommended testing routine), feed, give shot and then test BG at 2 hour intervals while you do the normal day's feeding. The curve ends with the PM pre shot test (no food 2 hours before). Comes to a total of 7 tests in that 12 hour period.
     
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  5. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Thank you Kris & Teasel...!!
    ...well it would certainly be cheaper to do this at home than the vet!
     
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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    For sure!! :D
     
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  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Never feel dumb around here! We have all kinds of acronyms and expressions. It's like learning a new language when you first get here.

    Here is the acronym and slang dictionaries:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/dictionary/cat-health-dictionary-fdmb.htm
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-land-slang-dictionary.1903/

    The second one is technically the Lantus and Levemir slang dictionary - they use a lot more little expressions than we do over here, but we use a few of them so it night be helpful. And of course, you can always just ask. :)
     
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  8. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Well after our last night debacle on the PMPS...I am never testing again with the WIND howling outside. Was disaster for Maji, husband helped hold, after trying the foot many times... on one poor toe (I was doing above the pad on the side) I have resorted back to the ear! I know that is hard to believe even for me! Although I have lots of options now...apparently :coffee: ear / toe...whatever it is gonna take.

    So ear it was this morning. I found out that even though I massaged...used heat...it didn't seem to make a diff for me.
    But if I use a tiny bit Neosporin just to put a slight sheen on the ear (like vaseline) and prick and then WAIT.... like feed a treat by hand while we wait...
    a blood drop starts to come up by itself. I have resorted to using my fingers behind her ear so I get pricked too....it's only fair!
    249 this AMPS

    ALSO thank you Djamila!!! I have those links open now and studying them...it is like a new language. I never cease to be amazed at the knowledge here...OK so THAT is what bump means...I had no idea...saw it many times...thought it meant stop or don't reply lol
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Those of us who have been here awhile forget that so much of what we say is incomprehensible to new folks! That cracks me up about "bump" :p

    Glad to hear that the test (and neosporin) worked well today! Sam has delayed bleeds sometimes too. It may be hard to believe right now, but I promise in a few weeks you're going to be able to test in a minute and even get an occasional test while still mostly asleep!
     
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  10. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    WOW ! If that’s the case I will let you know for sure and be thrilled!!! Thank you for the encouragement- us newbies need it ... we really hang on you guys’ every word as most of us ... know nobody going through this... it’s a special world indeed!
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    Reason for edit: Typo
  11. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    166 this morning...still NOT good at testing, wasted a strip.

    Scared to give her full dose of 1U gave .5 U as worried about overdoing it.

    Advice needed as to - do we shoot under 200 ?
    I tried doing it on her side, she did not like that...I am sticking to the back and neck area...I may have even done a partial fur shot but figured since she was 166 it wasn't too critical
     
  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Go Maji! Nice AMPS! When you get a lower than normal PS, the best thing to do is stall for 20-30 minutes without feeding. Then test again and see if the number is rising. If she's rising, you can give the full dose b/c it means that the insulin is wearing off - it just took a little longer than normal. You can stall for up to an hour to wait for the rise. of course most kitties start to cry and beg and act like they are dying if their meal is late, so you may need to leave the house and go for a walk, or go take a shower, or otherwise get away so you don't have to listen to the heart-wrenching pleas ;) I swear stalling is one of the hardest things we have to do in this dance.

    And good job persevering on the testing! It looks like her numbers might be coming down, so it's going to become even more critical. You've got this!
     
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  13. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Thank you so VERY much Djamila!!!!

    I was scared and unsure what to do - I eyeballed the .5 May have to order 40U 1/2 measures.

    It would kill me to listen to her pleas...

    Would definitely prolly have to leave the house and go to Starbucks or something...
     
  14. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I used to swear that stalling didn't work just because I couldn't take the begging. Then I started to realize it was harder on me than it was on him and just started leaving the house. @Rachel is the one who helped me figure out that trick. I have a security camera in my condo and realized that as soon as I left he would just lay down and go to sleep. He wasn't dying - he was just manipulating me! Oh these kitties.....:rolleyes:
     
  15. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hehe I've had to do that in the past! Before my kitties moved to raw food, they started to BEG for food a good 2 hours before dinner time...drove me crazy! I started feeding an hour early on the weekend (I don't have a sugar cat, so I could do that) merely because Oreo would do an acid puke around that time if I didn't feed...but ONLY because I was home! How do I know this? They never begged my boyfriend (I was the feeder). If I wasn't here, they just slept until I got home for dinner. So I started taking a walk every day an hour before feeding time so I didn't have to listen to the begging! Now that they're on raw, they don't do that anymore as they seem more full and they space the meal out throughout the day usually...but I still go for the walk since it's good exercise. ;)

    If you can't for a walk, a nice, long shower usually works well too!
     
  16. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Look whose waiting by the testing equipment 2 hours after being tested!!!

    upload_2018-3-10_8-26-36.png
     
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  17. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    She looks so regal!
     
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  18. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Adorable!! She knows the testing stuff is good stuff (and has a comfy place to hang out while waiting for her test!).
     
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  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The Empress of All She Surveys ... ;)
     
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  20. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    HI everyone, well it's been a while. A couple of things: A) Djamila, you were right...this cat is like "hurry up and get this testing over with...STAT...I want treats NOW" and circles the testing area...
    B) Kris & Teasel, OK I am ashamed I have not done the glucose curve...I know that is something I SHOULD do. Pricking this cat...even though she now practically is begging for it kills me. I would rather prick myself.
    C) I think her numbers are coming down?
    D) this cat's health is better now on insulin than it has been for at least a couple years...she is running through the house, chasing toy mice, flipping up twisty ties...chasing daddy, doing tricks.

    SHE STILL NEEDS INSULIN, when I reduce it...not by a slim margin, but to .75 or .50 I get a bad number. Other than that...hubby says Maji was acting like a wild Indian today...we are feeling like we are making progress, and Maji's mom (me) is actually getting good with the lancet...totally hard to believe! I am doing the ear...BECAUSE the droplet that beads up...is SO PERFECT for the alphatrak! Maji even sits on my lap watching the digital dial going around...then when we get a number POPS UP "Good girl" and we go pick out a can to eat :)

    I took the spreadsheet over to the vet. My recommendation is we stay 1U (twice a day) as we have been doing and a mid day snack if she dips to low 100s, Maji NEEDS HER TEETH CLEANED soon. And I asked the vet if we can do that Maji seems stable.

    I know I need to at some point do the glucose curve...I am trying really hard...
    K
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
    Reason for edit: included hubbys comment
  21. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    ...wow no support... :(
     
  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry! Sometimes I miss posts when I scan the forums, especially from my iPad at night. In order to tag us you have to type the @ symbol right in front of our screen name. That should make an alert pop up in our inbox. Otherwise we might not be aware that you want us to check a post you've put up. I'm glad you're getting that testing thing conquered. :)

    The blue PSs are lovely. If you can get even a partial curve at the 1 u dose - say, +4 and +6 - that would be useful data.
     
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  23. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Thank you so much... sorry to be such a baby about it... I definitely want to do it...

    Your responses and others mean the world to us newbies Maji (like all of us here I think consider our kitties) like our child. Even my son who turns 30 today says you let that cat do things you’d never let me do growing up!!! It’s more than true.

    I’m off work for few days vaca- MY ABSOLUTE greatest fear... is making Maji hide under the bed when testing time comes... NOW she pushes me to do it... even tho she doesn’t like it during it - I admire greatly you guys ability to test like you do - 1st your way better than me at!!! 2nd the amount of tests you guys do is admirable

    When I shine a light on her ears I see redbruising on the edges and it just kills me :( to see that I caused that. I AM getting better though...I’m a slow learner with this stuff AND clearly this cat rules me and this household.

    @Kris & Teasel <- totally cool cat name
     
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  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel has white edges to his ears and I can see concentrations of pink in my preferred poke spots. I understand not wanting to hurt them and mostly my pokes are uneventful for him. Once in a while he squeaks and it makes me feel awful. The idea that this is needed to keep him safe and to figure out the dosing that prevents as much damage as possible from FD is so much more important to me though. If you can keep that front of mind it'll help.
     
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  25. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    So sorry! I had an appointment this morning and just got home...didn't get a chance to check in until now. I know the pokes seem like they're awful, but I've heard that cats have very few nerve endings in their ears, so it actually doesn't hurt them much. They feel the pressure, but not the pain. It's only when you hit the vein that it might hurt a bit. It's NOTHING like it feels for us.

    Do you put pressure on the ears after poking? I used to press hard for 5 seconds or so...I think that helps to reduce bruising. Also, some neosporin (gel not cream) with pain relief might help some. I put that on before testing to help the blood bead up some, but might be good to help with the bruising too.
     
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  26. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    @Rachel @Kris & Teasel

    OK - it nearly killed me to test again...but she's not used to me being home AND she wanted her 'snack'. So I did it...I tried doing it lighter instead of poking through...did not work...so I figured damage is done...wasted a strip :banghead: not that I haven't wasted a bunch already...AND got another strip and got 'er done. 75 ! Gave her a snack this was exactly 3.5 hours in.

    Ok got back down here and found she’s raided the treat bag somehow got into it dunno how many she ate but was licking her lips - took treat bag away...

    I expect her numbers to be up by pm due to eating unknown amount of treats...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That 75 is a nice number but nadir is a few hours away. She might "surf" (stay flat) in green or continue to drop more. Only testing will tell you.

    In many cases the whole issue of stress/anxiety/difficulty around testing comes down to the owner's approach. I'm not scolding you at all but I do know from experience that being calm and clinical works so much better than oozing worry about hurting the kitty. And, yes, it can be "fake it until you feel it".
     
  28. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    @Kris & Teasel thank you! OK I did make a mistake... I give her shots at 6am - 6pm. So she had her shot at 6am - and I tested her at 11:30am... so that is really 5.5 and not 3.5 (my bad). I will update spreadsheet now!

    Yeah...Maji is much more enthusiastic about treats/tests than me...
     
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  29. Tonya & Pluto

    Tonya & Pluto New Member

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    I've been testing for the last ten days or so and I still feel bad too but I try to tell Pluto (and myself) it's for his own good. I joked with my mom recently that I felt bad about his ears and then remembered all the street cats I've seen missing chunks of ear and told Pluto he needed to just go with it. Pluto has white ears and I swear the one never wants to bleed, and I usually have to poke several times to get a successful reading since I'm still new to this as well, so his poor ears are all bruised up, no flashlight needed to see it! I've put the gel on and that seemed to help and I read on here recently to wet the cotton ball/pad you use when you apply the pressure and that really has seemed to help with the bruising.

    I love that Maji watches the dial with you! She seems to be adjusting well to the process and to the insulin. I like Kris & Teasel's advice above to "fake it until you feel it"
     
  30. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Thank you so much!!! Your post really helped!!!

    I have a real weakness for this cat... and I even overfed her which contributed to this problem although genetics plays a part as she is part Siamese...
    It’s hard being new here...thank you so much!!!!
    :bighug:
     
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  31. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    OK. That's an ideal set of numbers so far: nadir (-ish) about 50% of PS. :)
     
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  32. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Ok I didn’t know that!!!! Thank you...

    I think though it shows two things: 1st Maji clearly needs insulin these numbers rocket up if I reduce by 1/2 or even 1/4

    So that leads to 2nd which is this is a good dose at the present time.

    Which I think if I read correctly the goal is to get to optimum insulin level to get to a safe but lower numbers under that which spills glucose out over into the urine and see if the body can restart the pancreas insulin producing process on its own- if it can’t...insulin for life.

    After watching Majis swift improvement in overall health... it’s worth it completely to give insulin !!!!

    It’s a really good thing.... thank you all.. :)
     
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  33. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    It IS hard being new here! We've all been there, and we remember how tough it is. We're just glad we can be here for you guys the same way others were here for us during our newbie days!
     
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  34. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    thank you Rachel!

    Well talked to the vet and she was glad I was testing and definitely she said for the next 4 days she wants me testing morning, noon, evening 3x

    She also wanted me to drop Maji's dose down to .50 for a few days to see.

    I tried to call vet back because Maji at 97 but they closed at 6pm. I gave .50 BUT I'm gonna give a snack late tonight...and perhaps test again later...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  35. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Maji is looking really good! I'm so sorry I've been MIA for a few days - work has been busy and long. I love seeing Maji's numbers going down like this. You mentioned that she needs a dental. If you get that done, she may go off insulin altogether - dental issues are one of the leading causes of higher numbers.

    Also, great job with the testing! I second (or third?) the suggestion to put pressure on the ear after the test. That goes a long way to stop the bruising. I love that Maji is encouraging you to test more! That is especially important now as the numbers are coming down.

    And I've definitely come back into the kitchen to a cat with his head deep in the treat bag. They are so sneaky these little kitties of ours!
     
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  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Lovely numbers! :D
     
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  37. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    @Rachel @Kris & Teasel @Djamila and everyone!

    thank you for all of your help :)

    Well I was shocked Maji wasn't higher this morning...I fully expected at least yellow and scared of pink. Last night I set the alarm 11:30pm and got up to give a snack...ok I chickened out on testing..so tired from digging up the sprinkler system to repair piping.
    Anyway...I gave her a very small snack Blue Wilderness Duck canned. Just a small scoop. It does have potato in it (not sure if that is o.k.)...but I believe it is on the list as a good one (low carb)? I went back to FF this morning, gonna give snack at noon (after testing).

    Again thank you for your time and attention...it is most appreciated!!! Vet seems impressed anyway LOL
     
  38. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Tested... noon 77 (+6). Nadir
     
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  39. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    What a GREAT nadir!
     
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  40. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    uh oh starting to climb a little bit. Magic did not seem to feel great this morning...seemed well enough fed then dosed. Came down and she had thrown up breakfast. I gave her something different and she was just as hungry as before.

    Not quite as energetic though...perhaps not feeling well? Glucose seems up a bit. I believe I may have done a partial fur shot last night...unsure. This morning I did do a good .50 though made sure.

    BUT glucose up to 133 nadir...not quite what I was hoping for. Will see what happens at 6pm and called vet to let her know.
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good plan. I hope she feels better. Have you tested her urine for ketones? Just a precaution ...
     
  42. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    @Kris & Teasel Hi - thank you, I have not tested ketones...I noticed a ketones testing strips as walgreens as I had to pick up more 28 gauge lancets...as the 33 are just too teeny...I love them very much but magic is slow and a little tough to deliver blood unless I have enough of a prick. I'm getting better.

    So would I hold the strip under when she pees? I better take the hood thing off of the kitty litter box! I will have to get some.

    The rest of the day was good with Maji, she ate well and came in at 169 tonight. Vet called and said she wants me to stay at .50...and test three times a day...we're getting used to it.
     
  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Here are some tips for urine ketone testing:
    • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
    • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
    • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
    Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
     
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  44. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Thank you Kris & Teasel! I will need to get back up to Walgreens and get some to give this a try. I will have to get round the backside of her when she pees somehow. Definitely need to take the hood off of the kitty box as she is very private and gets her behind all the way against the back!

    Maji seemed to feel so much better last evening...got some sun on the deck with us at the end of the day...that always seems to help her feel better. I did NOT give a snack late last night...as her number was 169 and I was not worried about getting too low.

    This morning she is at 124 ! so it looks like we are back on track again...vet was right as usual... :)

    Also we tried a new food this morning...a half of a can of FF Flaked Fish and Shrimp Feast. She seemed to like it. I gave the other 1/2 of her can as a 1/4 FF chopped grill and 1/4 of FF salmon Feast. She likes variety... the snack today with be the super low carb of FF Flaked Fish and Shrimp Feast from DR Pierson's list...gotta get some more cans of this and ketone strips.
     
  45. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    She's doing really well! :D Good luck with the pee test - girl kitties can be so very particular about their bathroom habits. ;)
     
  46. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    58 nadir.... at noon 6 hours from last shot I gave a snack...called and left msg for vet.
     
  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you might have to try 0.25 u. Not sure if your vet will recommend that but we would. ;)
     
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  48. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    I think you would probably say no shot because she is only at 96 at 6pm. She drops about 50 pts (sometimes over 60 pt drop) at nadir between shots. if she goes to 46 that would be too low :(.

    Vet said she wants magic off insulin tonight and see what we come up with tomorrow.

    Darn it I wish I woulda bought syringes with markings for .50 and .25 all I have are these 40U types. marking .50 is fairly easy to eyeball gauge. Going to .25, would be a crap shoot very hard to tell...
     
  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It'll be interesting to see where she is tomorrow. :)

    They don't make syringes with 0.25 u marks, only whole and (on some) half unit marks. Quarter unit doses always require eyeballing.
     
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  50. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    I did not know that... thank you!!! I will let ya know
     
  51. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    If you are interested, there is another option. You can get the u-100 needles and use the Conversion Chart to dose. You have to use the chart, but it's really easy to use. If you DO decide to do that, I suggest putting the u 40 needles in another room so you don't accidentally grab them! It does make it easier to make smaller adjustments. :)
     
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  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes! I should have mentioned the U100s but it slipped my mind. It's a great way to get really small dose fractions and isn't as scary or confusing as many people think (sees numbers, mind freezes ... ;)).
     
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  53. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    @Rachel - that is a REALLY GOOD IDEA....tired in the morning...I could see how I could make that mistake!

    I think I can get U-100 up at Costco pharmacy. I noted that the needle was much shorter which should not be a problem I don't think.

    OK Maji came in at 140 this morning with no insulin last night. While I feel like I should give her a little insulin...the vet wanted me to wait and not give insulin unless she was 160 and / or above.

    I am supposed to report back to her today. She still wants me testing 3x per day even if not on insulin to watch and see what happens. I will also let her know I COULD do the .25 (as Kris & Teasel suggested) with a conversion chart which is PERFECT thank you!!!

    I have to say honestly it was a blessing not to wake up through the night worried about Maji...leaving the bed...going to find her and make sure she was o.k. when she was so low...it was scary and I worried incessantly.
     
  54. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    A couple of things I noticed when her glucose was so slow...

    All she wanted to do was sleep and she was kinda grumpy like...did not want to be petted, she would sleep DEEP where she would not wake up when I peered over her...then if I made any noise she would then wake and reach out to me with her paw :)

    She did not play yesterday AT ALL.

    This morning even though her glucose is up to 140 she is playing and running around again.

    This could all be coincidence...but I thought I would make a note of it.
     
  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    This is a common observation. They seem to feel more comfortable in higher BGs, maybe because their body has grown accustomed to that. It can take a while for them to get used to a healthier range. Someone on a forum compared it to how awful coffee drinkers feel if they stop drinking coffee.

    It can also be related to the insulin. Teasel didn't feel well on ProZinc or Lantus. Levemir agrees with him though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  56. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Vet mentioned switching insulin if it becomes obvious we can’t go off so that makes total sense ALSO that makes total sense that she was used to higher levels...accustomed to that!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    Reason for edit: Typo
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  57. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    I realize we don’t know which insulin is best for our babes. We only can try... that being said I’m ready to try something like Lantus or Levemir- I just don’t think Baby feels good enough for me! Lol I don’t know what I expect, it could be all in my head not in her bg!
     
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  58. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018

    You have to go with your gut... you know baby girl kitty better than anyone!!! :)
     
  59. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    HI all, vet called and keeps in touch asking for testing results. Tomorrow I go back to work so I really cannot do the noon test though.

    Maji did good today, amps 140, noon test 102, pmps 135.

    Vet feels maji's pancreas is trying to balance her glucose and the vet said it is succeeding she wants to give it a chance. She told me don't be surprised if it starts to creep up and we then have to right away bring it down again.
    She says the pancreas on it's own is succeeding...right now for now.

    K
     
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  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I would not consider switching insulin right now. Maji is doing well at this point. It's generally recommended to give an insulin closer to 6 months before a switch unless there is something obviously wrong. Maji is getting some great numbers. She'll start to adjust to those lower ranges, but it does take a little time for some cats.
     
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  61. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    Hi @Djamila :)

    Right now she is not on any insulin...
     
  62. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh goodness, I thought in post 56 you were saying the vet was thinking about switching? I'm so sorry - I must have misinterpreted that! Trying to read a little too fast tonight! :bookworm::oops:
     
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  63. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    Sorry, no what happened was Maji got REALLY LOW 58 noon nadir. Vet and I were worried; vet felt that was a little too low on 1/2 unit: Vet felt it was best to skip the next shot which we did - Majis numbers aren’t too bad right now off of insulin. Vet was worried that if we had to go back on insulin perhaps she might consider switching as Maji got awful low for very little insulin

    We haven’t gone back to insulin yet but might have to if her numbers start climbing ...
     
  64. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Yeah you definitely want to keep an eye on those numbers so if she rises you can immediately start again.
     
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  65. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    There's always 0.25 u if you need to give insulin. Like I said in post #47, vets don't think in those terms but we know it works. ;)
     
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  66. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    I will definitely tell her (the vet) and I agree I think the Prozinc was working just too well at one point even though she was really getting less than 1 unit and it was only a half unit - it’s scary for me anyway when she got to 58...even at 96 it’s scary to give a shot at that point even if it was only 1/2 unit

    Perhaps it is her pancreas starting to work again and that is why the big dip in numbers?

    @Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Djamila Dunno, perhaps I should start a new thread about being temp off the juice? would I do that in the OTJ section? But I don't really consider her off the juice totally yet.

    127 AMPS this morning
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  67. C&C

    C&C Member

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    Mar 20, 2018
    How does a cats weight factor into how much insulin to give them?
     
  68. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    I don’t know ? Sorry... but there are a lot of people on here who would know :) the numbers I am quoting are her glucose levels - sorry if I was being confusing.

    I do know that I overfed Maji and therefore I am part of this diabetes problem. She worked me over all the time encouraging me to feed her more and more.

    In my allowing that I think her overweightedness increased her insulin resistance. Fat cats tend to get diabetes I think for that reason.

    As far as weight and amount of insulin I believe that is irrelevant as to what dose will bring down a cat to a fairly normal healing level. Under 230-ish? I’m
    guessing now

    BUT I AM A NOVICE at this... there are people on here who can answer much better about weight vs insulin dosage :)
     
  69. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    We really don't take weight into account on dosage, to be honest. Most vets do for the starting dose, but we base the dose on their BG values as that's far more accurate. :)

    And yes, we tend to think that under around 220 or so is healing numbers. You're going to be a pro in no time! :)
     
  70. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018

    LOL I don’t feel like pro at this at all... but thank you!

    I wish I could go back in time and change the dry food, change the overfeeding... for all of my cats prior including Maji! Once you learn about all this... it’s frightening how all of it leads to this point... I wish vets would educate more. I was told Maji being obese might lead to diabetes- I wish they would say - “you’re going to have to get on an insulin schedule and stick your cat with a syringe needle twice a day like clockwork tired or not - you’re going to have to prick for blood twice sometimes 3 times a day and your cat is not going to like that IF you don’t do something about this weight and over feeding”

    I think that woulda woke me up... I’m hoping it woulda :(
     
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  71. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    OTJ is 14 days with no insulin and numbers in the 50-120 range.

    And amen on wishing that the implications had been clear before the diabetes diagnosis! I knew Sam was a little chubby, but didn't understand that while I thought it was cute, his pancreas did not. I didn't even know that cats could get diabetes. :oops:
     
  72. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    @Djamila - just curious why the range for OTJ here is 50-120 when the normal BG range for cats is 70-150? - Are you quoting a range for kitties using a human meter? Would the range be different for those of us using a pet meter?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ad...s/what-is-normal-blood-glucose-range-pets/amp
    Article:
    “I run in-house labs when I need answers ASAP when a pet is ill or if I’m suddenly needing to anesthetize a pet that we hadn’t planned for ahead of time. For my outside reference lab (a big national lab), the blood glucose range for cats is 64 to 170. And for dogs it is 70 to 138. My in house chemistry analyzer lists a normal range of 70 to 150 for cats and 60 to 110 for dogs. It’s all statistics. They test a bunch of “normal” pets to determine a normal range with that chemistry analyzer. Ranges for various machines are in the same ballpark – but not exactly the same exact numbers.”
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  73. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Hmmm...from what I could tell from that article that’s what normal BG would be for a cat who is stressed at the vet clinic. At home BG will be lower naturally. Since we home test and have tighter control than vets we have a lower threshold for normal. When a cat on here is at 170 we’d usually suggest giving insulin. I can’t give a scientific reason, but our range has been 50-120 due to all the kitties we’ve seen and data we’ve built.

    It would be higher for a pet meter...maybe 60-140?
     
  74. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018

    @Rachel At the beginning they are talking about stressed level 170 - if you go down to paragraph 5 it states the normal range.

    Also I found this: which talks about the diff between human and pet meters and the human meter reads lower which would explain why this site states a glucose level lower than what the testing labs do. I read this: “Using a human glucose meter for measuring glucose levels in cats and dogs can deliver inaccurate results that are often significantly lower than what they actually are.” I think it was in this article below

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.advocatemeters.com/single-post/2016/01/18/Why-You-Need-to-Use-a-Pet-Blood-Glucose-Meter?_amp_=true
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  75. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Also I totally understand why people use the human meter vs the pet meter cost alone is worth it - BUT the glucose ranges are different if the human meter reads lower- then a glucose range of 50-120 would make sense. But if the pet meter which reads higher the 70-150 makes sense - I will go dig out Makis old lab work and see what it states

    SORRY I got the lower and higher reversed I CORRECTED :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  76. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    I found this on this site - it appears that the protocols on this site are geared towards using human meters hence the the lower range because most people on this site are using human meters which register the glucose testing readings lower therefore an adjustment is made - this might be confusing for those of us that are using pet meters to use theee same ranges as they don’t work fir the few of us that are.


    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/human-glucose-meter-conversion.184773/
     
  77. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes, the difference is human vs. pet meter. Pet meters we say 68-150 for normal ranges. Human meters run lower, not higher.
     
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  78. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Totally makes sense! I may be the only one using a pet meter LOL

    But the adjusted calculation on this site makes sense

    My concern is for Maji to test 58 on a pet meter and be lethargic and not feel well is way different than a 58 on a human meter... this is where I am getting concerned- but I think I’m only one of a few on the pet meter...so the numbers work for the vast group on here


    Corrected and put human meter above
     
  79. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018

    Yeah sorry on that I corrected it - still early :)
     
  80. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Yes most people don’t use pet meters. We’re fine with either but most things are written for human meters since that’s what the majority use.
     
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  81. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    OK this is starting to make a lot more sense now ;)
     
  82. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    @Rachel also the SPREADSHEET works great universally for all meters :)
     
  83. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Your spreadsheet indicates that you are using a human meter. I would recommend switching to the spreadsheet that matches your meter as my comment about OTJ was written in terms of the meter I thought you were using based on looking at your spreadsheet. You can end up getting dangerous advice if someone thinks your safe ranges are 50-120 vs 68-150.
     
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  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
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  85. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    OMG really??? :banghead:

    Ok I gotta move data - there was only one link for a spreadsheet? Did I miss something???
     
  86. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
  87. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

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    Mar 2, 2018
    I gottatest Maji and then get my data over THANK YOU - sorry for the confusion BUT at least I’m on the right track now!!
     
  88. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    No worries. it might not even matter that much at this point if she just keeps going down.

    PS I love that you're doing some research on all of this!
     
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  89. Magic Johnson

    Magic Johnson Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Thank you! Sorry for being a pain but look I found out I was totally wrong and that is great! Perhaps Maji is doing better than I thought? Thank you :)
     
  90. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Not being a pain at all! I spent hours and hours reading through threads and research articles and random pet websites and asking a million questions to learn about all of this and sort through information that at times seems contradictory. It's how we learn enough to keep our own pets safe and also to be able to pay it forward and help other folks around here. Keep the questions coming! :bighug:
     
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